It's been a while! Glad to be back and really like this new forum software (at least for the last few minutes trying the new site). Seems intuitive and easy to search/browse!
The Savage MSR-10 Hunter in 6.5 Creedmoor! I took a leap on this rifle as I quite literally could not find any decent posts with more than a group or two posted and those were primarily the .308 model. With any new gun/model, not seeing a lot of reviews, especially after 6-8 months following launch, is a bit concerning. Add to that the mediocre accuracy/precision of the reviews I did find, and I was REALLY nervous! Did I have an $1100 6.5CM tent stake! Definitely not the case... With some notable exceptions, this rifle has and continues to exceed my expectations with respect to accuracy and fit/finish. Pics and review after the photos:
Purpose: While it was a bit of an impulse buy, I wanted a light(er) DPMS style 6.5 CM for hunting (deer and coyotes), tactical shooting and general fun. Expected modest accuracy but more about that in a few paragraphs.
Overall Feel: The frame is a good bit shorter than a standard AR10/LR-308 style uppers, and it is within 1/2" of same length as my AR15 by AeroPrecision. Honestly, it does feel like an AR15 more than an AR10/LR308. Plus one in my book!
Weight: This gun advertises an 8lb dry weight. By my scale it actually weights 8.4 lbs and as configured, weighs 10.8lbs. This is virtually identical to my AR15; so to my hands, it is very nearly identical in handling to an AR15 with an 18" medium barrel contour.
Reliability: I've run about 400 rounds through it now, mixing both factory ammo and a variety of handloads with different powders and bullets. With factory Hornady 140 ELDM ammo, I have infrequent though annoying failure to ejects/stovepipes. The adjustable gas block is a great help but I had 7 FTE's in 100 rounds of same ammo. maybe a bad lot? With handloads and all other factory ammo (list below), however, I have experienced exactly ZERO malfunctions of any sort. Take this with with a grain of salt but my theory is that the powder in the factory ammo is just not favorable to this rifle (dwell time??).
Quality: While I don't have a lot of experience with high-end AR10s etc, this rig is surprisingly well built for such an inexpensive, light weight platform. The BCG design is unique to this platform as are the upper and lower. The handguard attaches to the upper very much like a Daniel Defense: 4 screws running parallel to the barrel. (Note: if you get this gun and plan to remove the handguard, do yourself a favor and buy ball end style allen wrench for the Allen bolts... enough said.)
Compatibility: The jury is still out on this one. If you like modding rifles, some parts are stock/compatible with all AR style rifles but some aren't. Here is what I know and don't:
Enter Tubbs Final Finish! This is a *potentially* controversial subject as firelapping is panned by some and hated/loathed by others. I personally have done it to a few "meh" barrels and decided to give this one a go. It fouled something fierce within 20-30 rounds, wasn't producing reliably good accuracy and, frankly, could only get better. I fired all 50 rounds of lapping bullets with the prescribed 10 shots/Clean/Repeat sequence and started my handload process over again (just in case something odd happened to pressures). After fire lapping, copper is down to modest/normal levels and precision increased over 50%. I've since retested a variety of factory ammo (Hornady Match 123 ELDM, Hornady Match 140 ELDM, AmEagle 140 BTHP Match, FGMM Berger 130 Hybrids) and every single one holds sub-minute 5 shot groups.
With Handloads, things get much, much better! After getting mixed results with H4350 under 123 Amax, 140 ELDM, Berger VLD Hybrid and Berger VLD Hunt, I decided to give Varget a try, along with a few other bullets (107 TMK, 123 Scenar, 123 ELDM, 123 SMK). Results from OCW proved out the lighter bullets do seem to perform better from this rifle so far but I have yet to test the heavy's with Varget, RL15 or RL17. Here are OWC results using 4 shot groups:
I settled on the 123 ELD and 123 Scenar, both with 39.6 gr Varget to move to 300 yards for further testing. Along with some factory FGMM 130 Hybrids and Hornady 120 ELDM as baseline, I was very happy with results. (10) 4-shot groups and (2) 5-shot groups (factory ammo) fired over about an hour and a half. Every single group landed sub-MOA, with an overall average of .69 MOA.
I loaded the 123 ELD's with 39.6 again to set zero and run velocities. 2710fps Average, SD 10.9fps with ES of 34 from 9 shot string. While barrel seems to throw some slow ones here an there, its livable. Here is 100 yard zero and velocity target:
Then decided to stretch out to 388 (longest available at this facility) and had great results:
The groups shifted about center of target as I was dialing between groups to check against AB app and its ballistic solution.
All in all, I would say this rifle will average sub 3/4 MOA for 4-5 shot groups over and definitely Sub MOA. In fact, were it not for the single rounds flying out of the groups every so often (could be me but they all felt/looked good on trigger), this would be much closer to 1/2MOA. YMMV but this rifle has gone from turd to contender in last 100 rounds.
Hope you enjoyed the review of the MSR-10 in 6.5 Creedmoor! Go 'Hide!
FC
[Edited for typo]
The Savage MSR-10 Hunter in 6.5 Creedmoor! I took a leap on this rifle as I quite literally could not find any decent posts with more than a group or two posted and those were primarily the .308 model. With any new gun/model, not seeing a lot of reviews, especially after 6-8 months following launch, is a bit concerning. Add to that the mediocre accuracy/precision of the reviews I did find, and I was REALLY nervous! Did I have an $1100 6.5CM tent stake! Definitely not the case... With some notable exceptions, this rifle has and continues to exceed my expectations with respect to accuracy and fit/finish. Pics and review after the photos:
Purpose: While it was a bit of an impulse buy, I wanted a light(er) DPMS style 6.5 CM for hunting (deer and coyotes), tactical shooting and general fun. Expected modest accuracy but more about that in a few paragraphs.
Overall Feel: The frame is a good bit shorter than a standard AR10/LR-308 style uppers, and it is within 1/2" of same length as my AR15 by AeroPrecision. Honestly, it does feel like an AR15 more than an AR10/LR308. Plus one in my book!
Weight: This gun advertises an 8lb dry weight. By my scale it actually weights 8.4 lbs and as configured, weighs 10.8lbs. This is virtually identical to my AR15; so to my hands, it is very nearly identical in handling to an AR15 with an 18" medium barrel contour.
Reliability: I've run about 400 rounds through it now, mixing both factory ammo and a variety of handloads with different powders and bullets. With factory Hornady 140 ELDM ammo, I have infrequent though annoying failure to ejects/stovepipes. The adjustable gas block is a great help but I had 7 FTE's in 100 rounds of same ammo. maybe a bad lot? With handloads and all other factory ammo (list below), however, I have experienced exactly ZERO malfunctions of any sort. Take this with with a grain of salt but my theory is that the powder in the factory ammo is just not favorable to this rifle (dwell time??).
Quality: While I don't have a lot of experience with high-end AR10s etc, this rig is surprisingly well built for such an inexpensive, light weight platform. The BCG design is unique to this platform as are the upper and lower. The handguard attaches to the upper very much like a Daniel Defense: 4 screws running parallel to the barrel. (Note: if you get this gun and plan to remove the handguard, do yourself a favor and buy ball end style allen wrench for the Allen bolts... enough said.)
Compatibility: The jury is still out on this one. If you like modding rifles, some parts are stock/compatible with all AR style rifles but some aren't. Here is what I know and don't:
- Barrel: DPMS Style (per Savage tech) but they couldn't give me anything further. I asked if DPMS barrels would "fit the upper reciever" and they literally did not understand what I was asking. So if anyone else with more familiarity of DMPS barrels and dimensions has one of these and tears it down, please let me know if it seems feasible to have rebarreled.
- BCG: Proprietary; I don't think others would fit this rifle. Again, someone with better knowledge would be able to tell in a few minutes.
- Charging Handle: Proprietary; in between AR15 and AR10 lengths. Also the roll pin in the locking latch is larger than AR15; my extended lever would not fit (hole too small for MSR10 pin. )
- Upper/lower: Proprietary; I don't think they will match any other patterns. It is between AR15 and AR10 in length; not standard.
- Handguard: Proprietary; similar to a Daniel Defense and because mount is integral to upper, I don't think you can change this easily.
- Stock/Buffer Tube: Milspec tube; fits all milspec stocks.
- Bolt: I think this is standard DPMS style but unsure.
- Trigger: Standard AR15/AR10. Should accept most; I have Hyperfire Hypertouch in mine and fits fine.
- Grips: Standard AR15/AR10 will work.
- Safety/Bolt Release/Mag Release: All appear to be Standard AR10/AR15. Should accept any of the mods available.
Enter Tubbs Final Finish! This is a *potentially* controversial subject as firelapping is panned by some and hated/loathed by others. I personally have done it to a few "meh" barrels and decided to give this one a go. It fouled something fierce within 20-30 rounds, wasn't producing reliably good accuracy and, frankly, could only get better. I fired all 50 rounds of lapping bullets with the prescribed 10 shots/Clean/Repeat sequence and started my handload process over again (just in case something odd happened to pressures). After fire lapping, copper is down to modest/normal levels and precision increased over 50%. I've since retested a variety of factory ammo (Hornady Match 123 ELDM, Hornady Match 140 ELDM, AmEagle 140 BTHP Match, FGMM Berger 130 Hybrids) and every single one holds sub-minute 5 shot groups.
With Handloads, things get much, much better! After getting mixed results with H4350 under 123 Amax, 140 ELDM, Berger VLD Hybrid and Berger VLD Hunt, I decided to give Varget a try, along with a few other bullets (107 TMK, 123 Scenar, 123 ELDM, 123 SMK). Results from OCW proved out the lighter bullets do seem to perform better from this rifle so far but I have yet to test the heavy's with Varget, RL15 or RL17. Here are OWC results using 4 shot groups:
I settled on the 123 ELD and 123 Scenar, both with 39.6 gr Varget to move to 300 yards for further testing. Along with some factory FGMM 130 Hybrids and Hornady 120 ELDM as baseline, I was very happy with results. (10) 4-shot groups and (2) 5-shot groups (factory ammo) fired over about an hour and a half. Every single group landed sub-MOA, with an overall average of .69 MOA.
I loaded the 123 ELD's with 39.6 again to set zero and run velocities. 2710fps Average, SD 10.9fps with ES of 34 from 9 shot string. While barrel seems to throw some slow ones here an there, its livable. Here is 100 yard zero and velocity target:
Then decided to stretch out to 388 (longest available at this facility) and had great results:
The groups shifted about center of target as I was dialing between groups to check against AB app and its ballistic solution.
All in all, I would say this rifle will average sub 3/4 MOA for 4-5 shot groups over and definitely Sub MOA. In fact, were it not for the single rounds flying out of the groups every so often (could be me but they all felt/looked good on trigger), this would be much closer to 1/2MOA. YMMV but this rifle has gone from turd to contender in last 100 rounds.
Hope you enjoyed the review of the MSR-10 in 6.5 Creedmoor! Go 'Hide!
FC
[Edited for typo]
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