SBR b olt action in NY state??

Dave__th3__ss

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So im looking more and more in to the 8.6 blk. id really like a SBR bolt action but cant seem to find any answer on legality of a SBR bolt gun in NY.
yes i know the state is communist with its bull shit laws . What i did find is this
"New York prohibits private ownership of machine guns and silencers. All semi-auto short barreled rifles, semi-auto shotguns, and semi-auto AOW firearms are banned under New York's assault weapons ban."

Says nothing about SBR bolt guns. in any of the literature ive been able to find. calling the ass clowns at the NY state safe act place is usless. the state troopers are just as usless. they will not give any definitive answer on a damn thing.


also form 1 or form 4 ? i know nothing about this.... so im kind of in the boat of fuck it im gonna give it a try. worst they can say is no
 
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Tortuga

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I am sure you have read the NY state SAFE Act literature until you were cross-eyed, but it looks like you may be in the clear. In all of their stipulations and banned features, they failed to mention the NFA and specifically say "Any pump, lever, or bolt action rifle or shotgun cannot be an assault weapon.". I doubt anyone will admit it in public, but it sounds like a tax-stamped SBR, even with threaded barrel, folding stock, and detachable magazine, may be a fun-sized loophole.

Maybe call a rural NY sheriff that seems like they lean towards common sense and ask their off the record opinion on if it's worth trying.
 

cas6969

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“3. "Firearm" means (a) any pistol or revolver; or (b) a shotgun having
one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length; or (c) a rifle
having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length;…”

In the NYS penal law “firearm” is the term they use to describe things that shoot that are illegal. (Because NY laws are f’d up and traditionally poorly written) Unregistered handguns, short-barreled rifle, short barrel shotguns etc. etc. are all “firearms” and a no go.

SafeAct and semi auto doesn’t enter in to it, illegal long before that came along.

 
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Haney

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Maybe call a rural NY sheriff that seems like they lean towards common sense and ask their off the record opinion on if it's worth trying.

Terrible advice . That's not the guy that sentences you . The OP needs to understand the NY laws , it's that simple . Also, it won't be the local sheriff that hassles you , state police, border patrol, DEC,homeland security, park rangers , have all that covered and they are just waiting for fools to try to reinvent the wheel or look for a loophole . Fact/
 
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Tortuga

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Terrible advice.
In hindsight, I agree.

It was suggested more for the benefit of hearing what a sympathetic LEO thinks about the situation than a "would you arrest me?" question.

I genuinely feel for y'all that live in areas that have not just restrictive laws, but layers of conflicting and hypocritical laws.
 

Haney

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In hindsight, I agree.

It was suggested more for the benefit of hearing what a sympathetic LEO thinks about the situation than a "would you arrest me?" question.

I genuinely feel for y'all that live in areas that have not just restrictive laws, but layers of conflicting and hypocritical laws.
OK, I understand . It really does suck . this is no time to mess with guns in NY . Where I live the place is crawling with law, most of which is filled by people that are not native to the area or not even native to the state . Try anything fancy with guns and it won't end well . One month from today in NY you will need a pistol permit/concealed carry to walk in to a shop and buy a semi auto rifle which includes 10/22s .
 

Dave__th3__ss

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Terrible advice . That's not the guy that sentences you . The OP needs to understand the NY laws , it's that simple . Also, it won't be the local sheriff that hassles you , state police, border patrol, DEC,homeland security, park rangers , have all that covered and they are just waiting for fools to try to reinvent the wheel or look for a loophole . Fact/

I do understand New York law. Just reading what I found nothing about a bolt gun sbr is mentioned.
Kind of like the shockwave and reming tac are not mentioned and not illegal in ny.
Also I don’t live in the city. I’m in a rural county and shits different out here. Ny law or not.
Just for example you don’t have to take any courses to get you concealed permit in my county. Only takes about 2-3 weeks to get it back.
 

cas6969

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I do understand New York law. Just reading what I found nothing about a bolt gun sbr is mentioned.

I posted the link to the penal law above showing you where any SBR/SBS is illegal.

Kind of like the shockwave and reming tac are not mentioned and not illegal in ny.
The verdict is currently out on that one after this last round of laws.
 
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Haney

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Also I don’t live in the city. I’m in a rural county and shits different out here. Ny law or not.
Nah, calling BS . I live in the sticks about as far north as you can go and still be in NY , that's rural . Nothing is different when it comes to the law and guns . Give it a try , let us know how it goes.
 
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shoots100

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No matter where you live in NY state, No SBR's allowed, unless your LEO and use the firearm for work.
Same with suppressors, select fire + auto weapons and SAFE act uncompliant firearms + Hi cap magazines.
 

skipjack

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No matter where you live in NY state, No SBR's allowed, unless your LEO and use the firearm for work.
Same with suppressors, select fire + auto weapons and SAFE act uncompliant firearms + Hi cap magazines.
Actually you just need to be law enforcement. You have to do the paperwork like any other free state and a couple more loops, but it doesn’t have to be for work use. And law enforcement means cops, prison guards, fire investigation and dog warden. Go figure.
 

Dave__th3__ss

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The safe act isn’t enforced by local law enforcement in my county. Not unless you’re being a shit head.
We still can’t buy the stuff here but no one cares if you go to Pa and bring it across is all I’m saying.
 

Dave__th3__ss

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Nah, calling BS . I live in the sticks about as far north as you can go and still be in NY , that's rural . Nothing is different when it comes to the law and guns . Give it a try , let us know how it goes.
The safe act isn’t enforced by local law enforcement in my county. Not unless you’re being a shit head.
We still can’t buy the stuff here but no one cares if you have it is all I’m saying.
 

408w

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Pistol permit clerk is who I would check with. If it is legal, having a barrel shorter than 16” it would have to go on your pistol permit
 

Dave__th3__ss

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Pistol permit clerk is who I would check with. If it is legal, having a barrel shorter than 16” it would have to go on your pistol permit
Not true…. That’s only if it is not meant to be fired from the shoulder that it’d be considered a pistol.
 

408w

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I’m not going to waste my time arguing. What I said is true. What you want is illegal unless you can get it on your pistol permit. Or build it with a 16” barrel
 
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Dave__th3__ss

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I’m not going to waste my time arguing. What I said is true. What you want is illegal unless you can get it on your pistol permit. Or build it with a 16” barrel
Not arguing. But that link you posted is of a pistol… it has a pistol brace.technically shouldering a pistol brace is illegal per the ATF….since we’re talking about legality of things.

A bolt gun in a chassis like say the sig cross with a stock and a short barrel is an SBR not a pistol.
A weapon with a pistol brace is just that a pistol. And is not intended to be shouldered. As soon as you shoulder a weapon with pistol brace it becomes an SBR
 

gconnoyer

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No, no its not illegal to shoulder a brace according to the ATF.
 

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cas6969

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Of course the ATF says the Rossi Ranch Hand is a handgun and NYS says it's an SBR, so don't attempt to apply logic or common sense.
 

Haney

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I’m not going to waste my time arguing. What I said is true. What you want is illegal unless you can get it on your pistol permit. Or build it with a 16” barrel
100 percent correct .
 

Haney

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Not true…. That’s only if it is not meant to be fired from the shoulder that it’d be considered a pistol.
Obviously you do not have a FFL nor do you have a direct line to the ATF . As a NYS resident that has both I can tell you that you do not understand the laws . Give the Syracuse ATF office a call and they will educate you .

 
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roostercogburn98

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submit your form 4 and see what the atf says. My money says they will reject it
 

BuildingConceptsllc

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    Obviously you do not have a FFL nor do you have a direct line to the ATF . As a NYS resident that has both I can tell you that you do not understand the laws . Give the Syracuse ATF office a call and they will educate you .

    Well since you have thay direct line, how about give em a shout and find out what is taking so long on my cans! It's been a year already!
     

    Wiillk

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    A bit off the actual subject, but I am wondering how many short barreled rifles with suppressors are used to commit crimes in New York State? (And why they should be banned, when good ole 9mm and .380 ACP’s would seem to be the choice of the local thugs)
     

    shoots100

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    A bit off the actual subject, but I am wondering how many short barreled rifles with suppressors are used to commit crimes in New York State? (And why they should be banned, when good ole 9mm and .380 ACP’s would seem to be the choice of the local thugs)
    Your using common sense, that's also banned in NY state.
     

    Dave__th3__ss

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    No, no its not illegal to shoulder a brace according to the ATF.
    Must have changed.
    Obviously you do not have a FFL nor do you have a direct line to the ATF . As a NYS resident that has both I can tell you that you do not understand the laws . Give the Syracuse ATF office a call and they will educate you .

    Calm down sugar tits. The alphabet boys change shit all the time. When I owned my tac-13 the atf law on braces was not to be purchased with the intent to shoulder them. This was a few years back.

    you’re right I do not have an ffl nor have a direct line to the atf. Lmao 🤣 why would I need that when I have people like you the know everything.y I bet you’re a fucking blast in real life lmao 🤣

    laws on the books vs enforcement of said laws are 2 different things is all I’m saying.
    I know the sheriff in my county has personally said his department will not enforce the safe act.
     
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    Haney

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    Must have changed.

    Calm down sugar tits. The alphabet boys change shit all the time. When I owned my tac-13 the atf law on braces was not to be purchased with the intent to shoulder them. This was a few years back.

    you’re right I do not have an ffl nor have a direct line to the atf. Lmao 🤣 why would I need that when I have people like you the know everything.y I bet you’re a fucking blast in real life lmao 🤣

    laws on the books vs enforcement of said laws are 2 different things is all I’m saying.
    I know the sheriff in my county has personally said his department will not enforce the safe act.
    You don't seem too bright . Sweet story on the sheriff, laughable .
     

    FUNCTIONAL

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    I lived in ny.... even when you are right you are wrong. The cops in your county might be cool but what about that statey that nabs you on the highway... or the new guy who doesn't know any better or thinks he's going to do some good and get that off the streets. Personally I wouldn't do it and I've done some sketchy shit in NY... they live to fry people like you/ us on that BS gray area.

    Just go 16.25" from bolt face and call it a day.
     

    cas6969

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    Only there is no gray area on this one. The penal law says a rifle less than 16" is a "firearm" (illegal) then goes on to list about a half dozen different ways to charge you with different level felonies.

    For years I wanted to make a "canoe gun", a short barreled muzzleloading rifle. Never did because I never came into a sidelock priced right to go cutting up. But I finally did about a year ago. And when I got ready to bob it, I decided even though it's 100% legal federal/state, I couldn't trust some trooper, county sheriff or DEC officer to know that. Chances of trouble are slim, but the risk-reward ratio was out of whack. Big risk, little reward to potentially invite a lot of drama into my life (or ruin my life) for something that would be a novelty and I'd probably be bored with pretty quick anyway. No fun, but the right thing to do.
     

    Dave__th3__ss

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    You don't seem too bright . Sweet story on the sheriff, laughable .
    Almost as funny as your smoke on the range thread. Lmao 🤣
    Stop being a fudd

    Like I said before. Several counties will not enforce the safe act. Here’s an example of just one county.
    I’m sorry if you live in a super liberal county.
    But not all counties are the same.
    I know it might be hard for you to believe but you’re not always right. Ffl or no ffl. Doesn’t mean you know everything about every county in the state.

     

    Haney

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    Almost as funny as your smoke on the range thread. Lmao 🤣
    Stop being a fudd

    Like I said before. Several counties will not enforce the safe act. Here’s an example of just one county.
    I’m sorry if you live in a super liberal county.
    But not all counties are the same.
    I know it might be hard for you to believe but you’re not always right. Ffl or no ffl. Doesn’t mean you know everything about every county in the state.

    Thats a funny story you linked to . There are "groups" like that all over the state , Do they make the SAFE act go away, that's a big NO .
     

    Haney

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    Almost as funny as your smoke on the range thread. Lmao 🤣
    Stop being a fudd

    Like I said before. Several counties will not enforce the safe act. Here’s an example of just one county.
    I’m sorry if you live in a super liberal county.
    But not all counties are the same.
    I know it might be hard for you to believe but you’re not always right. Ffl or no ffl. Doesn’t mean you know everything about every county in the state.

    Did you call the ATF office yet ? Buffalo is closer to you than syracuse , I would call them .

    Buffalo I Field Office (Criminal)
    Resident Agent in Charge
    598 Main Street, Suite 201
    Buffalo, New York 14202
    USA View Map(link is external)
    Voice: (716) 853-5070 Fax: (716) 853-5071
     
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    Haney

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    I lived in ny.... even when you are right you are wrong. The cops in your county might be cool but what about that statey that nabs you on the highway... or the new guy who doesn't know any better or thinks he's going to do some good and get that off the streets. Personally I wouldn't do it and I've done some sketchy shit in NY... they live to fry people like you/ us on that BS gray area.

    Just go 16.25" from bolt face and call it a day.
    Well said . Exactly what will happen . But I guess the OP can say bubba the sheriff says it's ok and that may make it better.:unsure:
     

    Dave__th3__ss

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    Well said . Exactly what will happen . But I guess the OP can say bubba the sheriff says it's ok and that may make it better.:unsure:
    You’re a fucking retard. You are reading way to much into what I said. Never said that the state boys wouldn’t enforce the law. Just that local and sheriffs won’t. That’s it nothing more or less. There are several counties where this is the case that the ny safe act is not enforced. Never mentioned anything about federal laws.
    Has nothing to do with sheriff being a hick or anything like that.

    So calm the fuck there guy. Just because you may or may not have an FFL doesn’t mean shit. You’re still a tool. Your previous threads have shown that.

    You strike me as the type of guy from the city who like guns but is still a liberal and who’s just old as fuck.

    So please learn to read. I said exactly everything in my posts nothing more and nothing less. Has nothing to do with calling the atf. So chill the fuck out.
     

    Dave__th3__ss

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    I lived in ny.... even when you are right you are wrong. The cops in your county might be cool but what about that statey that nabs you on the highway... or the new guy who doesn't know any better or thinks he's going to do some good and get that off the streets. Personally I wouldn't do it and I've done some sketchy shit in NY... they live to fry people like you/ us on that BS gray area.

    Just go 16.25" from bolt face and call it a day.
    I don’t disagree that the state boys would charge people and enforce that safe act bullshit. I get that it just takes 1 cop being a hero.
    Gray areas in ny state are a trap I agree also. But can’t live your life in fear.
     

    roostercogburn98

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    If the form 1 is declined, you will get your 200 bucks back for the stamp applied for. It’s the fed gubment, so not sure how timely they will send back.

    Any other fees involved will probably not be reimbursed though.
     
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    Dave__th3__ss

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    Emailed my local (he’s a detective)c ontact and this is what I got in response

    No, it is NOT legal.
    Having ANY rifle with a barrel less than 16, would classify it as an SBR.
    The answer can be found in the definition section of PL 265.00 sub 3
    The NY firearms laws can often be confusing. One of the main reasons is because the NY Penal Law has its own unique definition of FIREARM.
    Under NY Penal Law, a FIREARM should be thought of as something illegal to possess without a special permit.
    Per NY Penal Law a FIREARM is:
    a) Pistols and revolvers that are not on a permit.
    b) Shotguns with a barrel less than 18”.
    c) Rifles with a barrel less than 16”.
    d) Rifle or shotguns with an overall length of less than 26”
    e) Assault Rifles not registered under the Safe Act.

    Therefore you may not possess a rifle with a barrel less than 16”. It should be noted that putting a stock on a legally registered pistol (such as a Thompson Contender, etc) makes the weapon illegal also.
    It is also important to remember that a basic premise of the US constitution is that states may make laws that are MORE restrictive than federal law but NOT LESS restrictive than federal law. It is illegal, federally to possess any SBR without a federal permit (ie-tax stamp). “


    So my take away is if one could build a rifle over 26” in length they could the possess a rifle with shorter barrel
     

    skipjack

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    Exactly what everyone was telling you. No you still need a 16 inch barrel, no matter how long the firearm overall length is.
     

    FUNCTIONAL

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    Agreed. It says nothing less than 26" but also says no barrel shorter than 16". It's not a one or the other deal with that wording and you certainly wouldn't be prosecuted that way.

    There also a difference between living in fear and denial. I wasn't in fear but I knew damn well what was going to happen if I was ever caught with something in the gray area and the bankruptcy that would follow trying to defend myself (right or wrong). State like NY run by the city is not going to change... was made very apparent to me after Cuomos anti corruption task force debacle. All in all it was much more beneficial to move to a state that didn't rape you let and right in every way. I miss the country like hell but I couldn't go back.

    If you really don't want to live in fear, just do it and see how far along you get. This is just trying to skirt on the gray where they will fry your ass either way.... might as well say fuck it and go balls deep if that's the outlook you have.
     

    SSBB

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    Unfortunately I grew up here. Any rifle or shotgun must have a minimum 16" barrel. If you have a pistol permit you can have a rifle caliber pistol as long as you owned it before unsafe act.
     

    Major Wader

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    As information, the 8.6 blk is not nearly the caliber that .375 Raptor is, regardless of what a certain Mr. Brittingham might tell you.
     

    Drew890

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    Unfortunately I grew up here. Any rifle or shotgun must have a minimum 16" barrel. If you have a pistol permit you can have a rifle caliber pistol as long as you owned it before unsafe act.
    A shotgun with a minimum 16 inch barrel, you say?