Securing a business from looters

someguy12341

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Ok, gents - would love to hear your thoughts on this. I was approached by one of the co-owners of the company I work for regarding ideas and suggestions for securing our facility from looters.

Background: The building itself is solid. Fire block construction, steel doors everywhere except for the front, etc. Not impenetrable, but the choke points are obvious. Not going to post pics or plans. We sell CCTV among other things, so coverage isn’t an issue.

My question is this, given that the owners are admittedly the non-tactical types (although 2A friendly gun owners): What specific advice / suggestions / shopping list would you give them?

General areas we’ve already identified:
1. Defensive tools.
2. Medical - kits, triage area, training, etc.
3. SOPs - Who, when, how, where.
4. Scenario planning and drills
5. Comms - some sort of two-way radio solution

Open to any / all feedback on this, as specific or general as you want to be. We know we don’t have a monopoly on good ideas, and we know we haven’t thought of everything.

Go.
 

clcustom1911

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Consult local laws reference carrying loaded weapons at/around a business/ place of work, self defense laws, etc.

Consulting their insurance to figure out what coverage they have in the event of vandalism and looting, as well as liability coverage should a self defense incident occur and a lawsuit is filed.

Cost vs benefits of letting the animals loot and file insurance vs defending and likely being sued civil or criminal liability.
 

Nicosdad

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Consult local laws reference carrying loaded weapons at/around a business/ place of work, self defense laws, etc.

Consulting their insurance to figure out what coverage they have in the event of vandalism and looting, as well as liability coverage should a self defense incident occur and a lawsuit is filed.

Cost vs benefits of letting the animals loot and file insurance vs defending and likely being sued civil or criminal liability.
Sad to say but probably damn good advice.
 
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Snuby642

Old Salt
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Call your local shooting ranges.
Some of the larger ones actually have staff to help or will have recomendations for qualified help.

A couple of the ranges we use have qualified and overwhelmingly over qualified staff available.
 

wade2big

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Its a shame that law biding Americans are shackled while looting thugs run while unabetted.

Arm up and shoot the mother fuckers. Drag them off in the ditch and say nothing. That's how it should be.
 

The King

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Fire control is key.

To whit - film any window that isn’t covered by a roller door. Get roller doors over all glass if possible. Both is better.

Electrically operates ones that close from the inside are excellent.

Fire extinguishers should be prominent and serious. and I mean fire truck type ones, not the shitty hand ones.

Use CCTV and a control/response room to close up before they get there.

Rooftop response is a good plan if you are at risk of being overrun.

Have 10 times the ammo you think you need.

Prepare your chokepoints and fallbacks.

Cover stacks of sandbags inside of walled structures with shipping boxes to make low key cover out of just concealment.

Keep pringle’s cans full of either slingshot steel balls or marbles and pour them over entryway doors and hallways on the interior side. Post a sign that says “floor slippery” to discourage lawyering.

Have cameras film everything everywhere for the inevitable legal battle.
 

THEIS

Hi, Sincerely
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Background: The building itself is solid. Fire block construction, steel doors everywhere except for the front, etc
Hi,

Quick review of your building...

1. HOLY SHIT at the number of windows.
2. Your CCTV System actually sucks. Your rear cameras are not facing any of the rear doors/windows but 1 is directly facing the enclosed dumpster.
3. The 4 foot high fence around the facility is purely decoration because you have windows and doors at rear of building with no fencing, lol.

Sincerely,
Theis
 

MCHOG

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Have cameras film everything everywhere for the inevitable legal battle.
Seems like something you might not want on camera.... At least not the inside. Sitting by while someone else nit picks every frame of a video recording isn't the position you'd want to be in later. Given the images and videos spread across the country recently, I don't think many reasonable people would doubt that you feared for your life and used deadly force justifiably.
 

MCHOG

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Hi,

Quick review of your building...

1. HOLY SHIT at the number of windows.
2. Your CCTV System actually sucks. Your rear cameras are not facing any of the rear doors/windows but 1 is directly facing the enclosed dumpster.
3. The 4 foot high fence around the facility is purely decoration because you have windows and doors at rear of building with no fencing, lol.

Sincerely,
Theis
Badass, as always. :oops:
 

buffalowinter

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If you're in a big enough city, find a professional security company that will come when called. And dogs...professional security company with dogs, but barring that, any dog. Can't sue a dog for biting someone who attacks it. Animal cruelty...attacking a dog...is now a felony in most places. People can't get in pissing contest or dick measuring contest with a dog...and finally...that's not my dog.
<iframe width="900" height="506" src="
" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

werewolf.jpg

And as I said, any dog will do. Put this muzzle on the family pet and you're in business!
1591027676607.png
 
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Blue Sky Country

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When the Mumbai terrorist attacks happened, I was working in Manhattan. No guns obviously but I brought my 60lb collapsible hunting bow and 20 arrows into the control office that overlooks the distribution/operations floor on the second floor with a set of nice narrow windows giving a view of the entire place. If shit were to go down in there, I can simply head into that room, shut the plant lights, activate the glaring emergency lights, and the rest of the procedure would be like pissing on flies inside a toilet bowl, except I would be pissing out razor sharp Montec 3-blade broadheads.

1. High ground,

2. Adequate cover/concealment,

3. Lethal projectile weapon of any kind that can take down a bear at range,

4. Good view and vantage/hiding spot,

5. Adequate ammunition,

EQUALS killing fields.

Make use of what you have, and create the necessary trifecta of concealment and vantage point to get the most utility out of the weapon of choice. There were 2 other guys on our team who are also hunters and they know where the bow is kept and how to use it. "In case of emergency, gray cabinet with the Harley Davidson sticker on it"...
 

Snuby642

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If you give a recording to your lawyer he will give it to prosecution.
So if you want to let him see it fine but do not give up controll.
 

MTN

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The answer is to move it out of the city and/or any democrat (weather underground) power center.
 
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Jefe's Dope

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These are a couple pics from one of the restaurants my wife works with. She manages another location in Westminster. This is located in downtown Denver on Court St. This happened Friday night.

This is breakfast place. No political associations what so ever. But I guess Big Breakfast needs to pay!

IMG_2723.jpeg

IMG_2722.jpeg

They got them on video but I doubt anything will come of it.

My suggestion; Rooftop Koreans.
 

FS1

Unbalanced
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My insurance company won't cover me if there are guard dogs present. Not relevant now because we have no yard to secure. But check with your insurance before using dogs.

Also unless the roof is metal or you can flood the roof, the roof is vulnerable to fire. It's normally the weak spot if all else is secure.
 

The D

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These are a couple pics from one of the restaurants my wife works with. She manages another location in Westminster. This is located in downtown Denver on Court St. This happened Friday night.

This is breakfast place. No political associations what so ever. But I guess Big Breakfast needs to pay!

View attachment 7340997

View attachment 7340998

They got them on video but I doubt anything will come of it.

My suggestion; Rooftop Koreans.
I know that place in Westminster and love it. I’ll volunteer to keep watch, I just demand payment in eggs benedict
 

Fig

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My insurance company won't cover me if there are guard dogs present. Not relevant now because we have no yard to secure. But check with your insurance before using dogs.

Also unless the roof is metal or you can flood the roof, the roof is vulnerable to fire. It's normally the weak spot if all else is secure.
Very true, but an excellent spot for an "active defense", especially if there is unobstructed ground around the structure.

Nothing beats armed guards.
 

Jefe's Dope

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I know that place in Westminster and love it. I’ll volunteer to keep watch, I just demand payment in eggs benedict
They're back open and seating inside when you're ready. We did Parma last night for my son's April birthday.
 

Seymour Fish

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The answer is to move it out of the city and/or any democrat (weather underground) power center.
The time to sell out and haul ass seems to have run out, perhaps years ago, leaving some people financially trapped. FAcing the Russian roulette of the mob, it becomes obvious clinging to the financial meme was deadly. Sad.
 

j-huskey

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Pawn shop Roll down security chain mail over windows and doors professionally installed with inside control, and, fire control.
That's your best security option as long as you see them coming in time to activate.

Otherwise u are reacting to an ambush. Lose lose.
See CLcustom1911 above. Post 2.
The King post 6.
 

Vodoun daVinci

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Where I am if you shoot someone stealing or looting then you'll go to jail. Can't shoot where I am to protect stuff...only if you can prove that your Life is in imminent danger. Do it from a rooftop? I mean, one might have a prayer if people broke the windows and started tossing fire bombs while I was inside and I defended myself with a pistol but going to the roof with an AR would get me arrested. Not so in other States I take it?

VooDoo
 

Jefe's Dope

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Where I am if you shoot someone stealing or looting then you'll go to jail. Can't shoot where I am to protect stuff...only if you can prove that your Life is in imminent danger. Do it from a rooftop? I mean, one might have a prayer if people broke the windows and started tossing fire bombs while I was inside and I defended myself with a pistol but going to the roof with an AR would get me arrested. Not so in other States I take it?

VooDoo
Who's going to arrest you? The cops protecting the looters? Also, you don't have to shoot anyone, you just have to make them think you'll shoot someone. Not your fault if you rounds come up a few feet short or just over head.;)
 

Bolo

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Is a moat and drawbridge out of the question? Boiling oil on the rooftop could work, too. (J/K)
Honestly, have a quadcopter handy, with spare batteries. An eye in the sky can see a lot farther, and to be forewarned is to be forearmed.
Have an obvious armed presence. A show of force will turn away quite a few wannabes really quick. TaCtiCoOl gear makes pasty soyboys defecate on the spot, even if you're just holding an airsoft.
Bollards / Tiger Teeth between high-speed avenues of approach and the building. Something that can keep a vehicle from crashing into the building and breaching it.
External PA system to announce your intent to defend, combined with something like a super-loud set of truck or freight train horns plus strobes.
If you have a charged standpipe inside or a hydrant nearby, a 3" hand line can effectively cover a choke point or a large mass. Hopefully you can protect the line so it won't get cut. Bonus that it's handy for the little fires, save your extinguishers for later.
Shampoo. Lots of it- also consider 'spreader sticker' from Agway, Lesco, any Ag / Turf supply (it's shampoo without perfume or conditioner). Makes for an easy-to-clean slippery mess and stings like hell in the eyes. Combine with firehose and you can give the filth a shower at the same time.
Assuming you can't get CS, Pepper Spray 'nades, or even OC paintballs, fill plastic easter eggs with pepper spray or lots of really hot hotsauce. Tape shut, load into tater guns or slingshots. Bonus points for ten at a time in a cool-whip container tied to surgical rubber tubing.
Mantrap on the doors- either steel / block to further funnel and cause them to stack up single-file or more of an abatis-style.. like a pointy wedge. Punjee sticks (or 20d nails) are an optional feature.
Lots of flexcuffs or big fat zip ties, preconfigured like prussik cuffs.
Those are my best non-lethal, field expedient active defense ideas, courtesy of the Royal Irish Rangers.
For the lethal ones, I'd need to go into what the IRA set up.
 
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Kir

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RE: A lawyer once told me I could be liable if I had a sign that said WARNING: Guard Dogs, meaning you knowingly knew they could bite/injure an intruder, however, if you simply put DOGS ON PREMISES signs up, you would not be liable. Make them wonder what kind of dog it was exactly. Of course all laws are subject to locality: state, county city, etc.
 

The King

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In my jurisdiction, use of lethal force is authorized to defend any structure I am aware of being occupied from attack.

And because of where I live, if I’m shooting the rapey mclootie band in the face, my LEOs are shooting them from the flank.

Search your state laws for “occupied structure.”. I am not able in my state to defend stuff either. But my structures are occupied around here for the most part.

Where I am if you shoot someone stealing or looting then you'll go to jail. Can't shoot where I am to protect stuff...only if you can prove that your Life is in imminent danger. Do it from a rooftop? I mean, one might have a prayer if people broke the windows and started tossing fire bombs while I was inside and I defended myself with a pistol but going to the roof with an AR would get me arrested. Not so in other States I take it?

VooDoo
 

THEIS

Hi, Sincerely
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Hi,

Ok, so lets remove the fact that IF you are looking to fortify a building for the "happening right now" riots....you are SOL!!!

Lets operate on the premise that you have time on your side....

1. Security shutters with interior manual override installed on the exterior of all windows and doors. From the number of windows/doors I would set aside 50k for that budget. I just did 2 windows and 2 doors for cost of closer to 5k and 6 week lead time.

2. Upgrade your exterior camera systems to have the FOV function in an overlapping sequence and get rid of those single direction cameras on the backside of the building and replace them with 360 degree camera systems.

3. A company the size of the one you work at should already have a designated Safety/Medical Officers with the appropriate medical supplies. If not then once again trying to play the game of "reactionary improvements" will always have you on loosing side.

4. Comms..that building should be equipped with a stand alone intercom system or at least intercom system feature on all the phones.

5. Call your local MPD and hire an off-duty security detail....


Sincerely,
Theis
 

Snuby642

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Guess I will have to commandeer my grandsons airsoft rifle and thank God that I finnaly know what to do with that 5 gallons of used turkey frying oil.

Learn something every day, thanks.
 

The King

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I’m giving the OP a pass.

Before liberals started “helping” things, having to kill 1300 murderous rioters in order to live to see the sunrise was less likely than dying of a McDonalds overdose.



Hi,

Ok, so lets remove the fact that IF you are looking to fortify a building for the "happening right now" riots....you are SOL!!!

Lets operate on the premise that you have time on your side....

1. Security shutters with interior manual override installed on the exterior of all windows and doors. From the number of windows/doors I would set aside 50k for that budget. I just did 2 windows and 2 doors for cost of closer to 5k and 6 week lead time.

2. Upgrade your exterior camera systems to have the FOV function in an overlapping sequence and get rid of those single direction cameras on the backside of the building and replace them with 360 degree camera systems.

3. A company the size of the one you work at should already have a designated Safety/Medical Officers with the appropriate medical supplies. If not then once again trying to play the game of "reactionary improvements" will always have you on loosing side.

4. Comms..that building should be equipped with a stand alone intercom system or at least intercom system feature on all the phones.

5. Call your local MPD and hire an off-duty security detail....


Sincerely,
Theis
 
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RioKid

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THEIS,

Can you see an overhead of my place? If so, did I get the lines nice and straight with the mower today? My wife said they weren't quite straight and I think it looks really good. Love your first post man!!!
Chris
 
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Mike Casselton

Trunk Monkey
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THEIS,

Can you see an overhead of my place? If so, did I get the lines nice and straight with the mower today? My wife said they weren't quite straight and I think it looks really good. Love your first post man!!!
Chris
No need for an aerial view.
Start on one end, pick a spot where your yard terminates, look directly at it and mow yourself in that direction.

End result, nice straight lines.

All bets are off if you've been drinking or are incapable of level, leveling your rifle...
 
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j-huskey

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Crop circles are the in thing in lawn mowing. Done right, it keeps unwanted neighbors away, especially when you tell them about the nightly abduction flights. Damn a straight line.
And then, there are the messages in cursive you can mow in so drone people wont hover over the pool looking at your naked female sex slave, leg chained, but tanning. That non tanned ring on her ankle is like a blue pill, just wow.
Damn a straight line. They are sooooo over rated.....
XMark is gonna run today, the pool was shocked last night, and the water looks like the Gulf, beach gazebo got the cooler stocked, and , did I mention, damn a straight line ?
😉😁🙄😎😎🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
 

E. Bryant

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Where I am if you shoot someone stealing or looting then you'll go to jail. Can't shoot where I am to protect stuff...only if you can prove that your Life is in imminent danger. Do it from a rooftop? I mean, one might have a prayer if people broke the windows and started tossing fire bombs while I was inside and I defended myself with a pistol but going to the roof with an AR would get me arrested. Not so in other States I take it?

VooDoo
Check your state laws regarding the use of deadly force to prevent an arson attack upon a dwelling, as many states allow this. Also, many states allow force to be used to prevent a felon from fleeing, and arson attempts may fall into this category. As always, know your applicable state and local laws, and understand how your local LE and DA are likely to interpret those laws.
 

THEIS

Hi, Sincerely
Commercial Supporter
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Nov 27, 2017
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hoplitearms.com
THEIS,

Can you see an overhead of my place? If so, did I get the lines nice and straight with the mower today? My wife said they weren't quite straight and I think it looks really good. Love your first post man!!!
Chris
Hi,

Do you really want me to answer that, lol......I could have given William a goat and had him make a more even cut than you did. Change the left blade on your mower or something, geez....

Sincerely,
Theis
 

MtnCreek

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Jan 6, 2012
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Crop circles are the in thing in lawn mowing. Done right, it keeps unwanted neighbors away, especially when you tell them about the nightly abduction flights. Damn a straight line.
And then, there are the messages in cursive you can mow in so drone people wont hover over the pool looking at your naked female sex slave, leg chained, but tanning. That non tanned ring on her ankle is like a blue pill, just wow.
Damn a straight line. They are sooooo over rated.....
XMark is gonna run today, the pool was shocked last night, and the water looks like the Gulf, beach gazebo got the cooler stocked, and , did I mention, damn a straight line ?
😉😁🙄😎😎🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Yall are hightech down there. Most we can manage around here is a giant 3 mowed in the grass.
 
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Kir

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I have several automatic lawn mowers. They are called goats and llamas. :giggle::sleep: