Maggie’s Seeing as it's Maggies Drawers Bar.....Anyone make Cider?

[Sean the Nailer]

We've just started a batch of Apple Cider (our first) and are jumping in feet first.

We've got 76 pounds of Granny Smith apples, as well as ~14-15 pounds of Spartan all juiced up into a 5 gallon primary. We've added the:

5 cups of Sugar
2 1/2 tsps Yeast Energizer
6 1/2 tsps Acid Blend
2 1/2 tsps Pectic Enzyme
1 pkg Champagne Yeast

All of this was done one day after adding 5 Campden Tablets to the juice, just to ensure that there were no other unwanted 'greeblies' growing before we added the Yeast, etc.

We plan on adding more sugar to the mix, before bottling, so that it turns into 'sparkling cider' in the bottles.

Anyone else done this, similar, or have anything to add? Just wondering.


Pic's Added:
View attachment 6-6-14-1.jpgView attachment 6-6-14-2.jpgView attachment 6-6-14-3.jpg

 

[Twitch2120]

sounds neat. my wife is gluten intolerant so im learning to appreciate cider. good luck!

 

[SquarePizza]

I have a small orchard and I typically make 25-35 gallons of sweet cider a year (more if I had days off that time of the year). Never made hard cider but that is on the to-do list.

My biggest findings with sweet cider are: Mix your apple variates (otherwise the cider will come out tasting too much like one type of apple), and get it cold fast! Last year I had 15 gallons go bad on me because I couldn't fit in the cooler, I thought it would be ok since it was supposed to be in the upper 40s that night. Wrong! Boy was I sad/pissed.

All and all, I love making sweet cider and look forward to apple season every year. =)

 

[Maggot]

Unfiltered and unpasteurized ice cold. Yummy.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Um, we're making alcoholic (hard?) cider here, with the intent of it being sparkling, after it's bottled. Also, we want it to be as much "Granny Smith" tasting as possible. Neither of us like the 'sweet', so we much prefer the 'sour'.

You spoke of 'cold'... when making wine (nearly identical process, so we've been told) it needs to be between 72-75 degrees F, for the yeast to work. Will this be an issue?

Or are we speaking of two different things?

 

[Unknown]

Many years ago I made a 5 gallon carboy of hard cider. It was really simple...cider, yeast, sugar, and then just before bottling, some more sugar. It turned out to have about 5-6% alcohol IIRC (it was about 20 years ago), and was really tasty. My only regret was that I only made 5 gallons of the stuff.

I had to go to some lengths to sterilize all the items used to brew it, and I used one of the gas relief bubbler valves on top of the carboy so pressure could go out, and nothing would come back in. It wasn't quite as "fizzy" as I hoped, but it wasn't flat either. All round, everyone thought it was a pretty good cider.

Getting all the materials together was more difficult than actually making and bottling it.

 

[SquarePizza]

Sean, I don't think any of my sweet cider findings apply to hard cider. The entire process is different (well, after the whole crushing part). My only interaction with yeast is in pizza dough, which we store cool, then let sit in warm water and sugar to activate, then recool the dough to keep the yeast from going too crazy and making the dough grow too much.

So my guess is yes, temps in the 70s would be about right.

 

[Hairball]

the most difficult part for me the last time was getting the correct amout of sugar in the bottle for carbonation. i make beer and hard cider every now and then but i don't drink alcohol so i give it all away. Planted me an orchard this year so maybe in a few years i will be able to have enough product to play with.

 

[xs hedspace]

I made a 5 gal batch, and had too much sugar in the mix, so the alcohol killed the yeast. Tried adding more yeast, and bottling for carbonation, didn't work. Sweet, and with a hellova kick! Will try a tiny piece of dry ice__pea sized to carbonate, to cut the sweet taste down. Mostly granny smith. Ran one 5 gal batch thru a still--egad, had to cut it 50-50 with apple juice. I think it came out as around 130 proof.

 

[MLC]

Sean see if you can get J.K.’s Northern Neighbour Farmhouse Cider Saskatoon Cuvee cider up there.
It's a good tart cider that you can compare against.
The batch I made turned out tasty, I added one pound of local honey to 5 gallons of cider from the orchard next door.
Over time it lost its apple flavor because they use eating apples that don't have a lot of tannins.
Feral apples and crab apples have more tannins and are better for hard cider.

 

[Diggs223]

Been making hard cider for about 20 yrs. 100 gal a year. What I do is; 50 gal. used bourbon barrels, straight golden russet cider unfiltered unpasturised, sulfite 24 hrs to kill natural yeast, siphon off 5-6 gal. add 30 lbs honey 30 lbs brown sugar, yeast nutrient then yeast top off barrel. add a few lbs honey, brown sugar to left over cider in a carboy , yeast and nutrient. let it go till it stops. like it dry. comes out 10-12 %

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Update: Yesterday, we racked the cider from the primary into the carboy. While there was quite a bit of 'schmutz' still on the bottom of the primary, there is/was also a fair bit still suspended. As it is, once all that foam settled down in the primary, there was quite a bit more liquid there than when we stopped pouring the juice into it. We stopped at 23 liters. Had no idea foam could hold that much.

I'll rack it again either today, or tomorrow. Not quite sure how we're going to separate the liquid from the "schmutz", as it is extremely fine and has completely clogged anything I've tried to sieve it with. There is also, a minute amount of yeast activity.

View attachment 6-15-14-2.jpgthis was yesterday, and now:

View attachment 6-16-14-1.jpgThis is it today, ~12 hours later. Notice the layer on the bottom. I'll be racking the majority of the juice off of that, simply by suspending the cane higher.

 

[Diggs223]

if the dates of your posts is the actual date you did this a little to quick. racking should have waited at least a month.
its not clearing because the yeast is still active. mine generally goes 3-4 months to go dry and clear. if you like the sweetness as is, sulfite to kill the yeast stop ferment.
sometimes i rack if i have time, most of the time i've just let it go siphon off the top of the lees. if the last couple bottles get a little muddy just let them sit a bit and pour slowly.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Thank you Diggs. I understand what you are saying, and that coincides somewhat with the instructions that we are following. Here they are. And yes, the post dates is/are the process dates.

We originally started this project, with the intent of having some cold, sparkling, and refreshing cider to enjoy this summer when we are outdoors in the heat. As it is, it seems that this stuff will be ready just in the nick-of-time for next summer. HA. We've made a fair bit of wine(s) that essentially bottle in a month. Our original hope was that cider-making was similar. It is not.

Unless anyone out there has any "turbo-tricks" to get this to happen faster, that is. More HA. Or a different recipe that will get us the same results. Either way, we are looking forward to the finished product.

Also, we are NOT wanting this to be 'sweet', which is why I specifically chose to use the 76 lbs of Granny Smith apples. I like the 'tart' flavor the most, and really don't enjoy most other 'ciders' out there on the market, because they are too sweet.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Well, for what it's worth, here's a bit of an update:

As we had learned in the middle of June, that the "scratch-batch" was essentially going to be ready for the height (or pit?) of winter, we then got a kit for a 'quick-batch'. We picked it up from the local 'wine making store' because they recommended it, and also it was 'fast'. As we wanted cider to enjoy on our deck this year, we figured it was at least worth a try. Made the batch, followed the instructions, blah-blah-blah, added the right amount of sugar at bottling, then waited 10 days. It was terrible. We brought some in to the store that we'd bought it from, and the manager himself opened the bottle and didn't like the smell emitted right there. Then he tasted it, and said 'that's not right'.

Short version description here, is that it was a "very yeasty apple beer, sorta". All one could taste is/was yeast, with practically no apple flavor at all. He replaced our batch with another kit, and said to make it again, and this time give it more time before bottling. "make sure the yeast is dead" he said. Not a problem.

So we made the second batch of 'kit cider'. Waited extra-long for the stuff to settle down. (for details here, the kit directions lauded that it gets bottled after only 10 days.) The second batch, we waited 27 days, specifically.

Again, adding the sugar at bottling, to make it 'carbonated' and then wait the minimum 10 days. CRAP, this batch is even worse. Far worse.

As stated previous, the first batch was like a 'apple beer', and for beer lovers, it was at-least drinkable. This stuff is not. It is simply repulsive. We're taking the whole batch in today, to the dealer, and intend on leaving it with him as long as he replaces the bottles and caps themselves, as we still need them for our 'scratch-batch'.

Most importantly though, I want for him to tell us what is wrong with this second batch, and/or enlighten him to what product is coming out of his "fast kits" that he's selling. These kits are from Australia, and he's just selling them. To be clear.

I truly believe that the "cleanliness" and or "sterilization" process is not an issue, simply due to my own OCD Kabuki dance when doing this stuff, and the MANY batches of wine that we've made, to which we've had nary a problem.

Here is the ongoing progress that the 'scratch-batch' is making in the carboy. Looks fantastic, and we can't wait to try it. Or simply taste it, to see what it's doing.

View attachment 8-26-14.jpg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I spent the Summer of 2004 (90 day assignment) as a temp at Canandaigua (Constellation Brands) Wine, working as a cellarman. The most stringent part of the job was controlling yeast contamination. Mainly I cleaned 50,000 gallon tanks, 14 acres of them.

The mechanical end of the process was industrial, so I'll skip that part. We started with industrial Iodine based cleaner, flushed, and finished with Chlorine Bleach based cleaner.

Juice was infilled, followed by the yeast, and water. Pumps circulated the Juice/yeast mixture, and samples were delivered to the lab daily, along with brix (specific gravity) readings. Periodic feedings of HFCS (High Fructose Corn Syrup) were loaded 5000lb at a time direct from a railway tank car. Once the proper alcohol and sugar content were achieved, fermentation was shut off by infusing Potassium Metabisulfite ('Meta' or Campden). Sometimes other chemicals were added per lab instructions. Filtration was performed by infusing diatomaceous earth, then pump filtering through a multiple (upwards of 50) card filter. What exited was clear and drinkable wine.

Folks who wish to make Cider (or fruit wines) should consider this setup. A/several 5 gallon water jug(s), available from Wal-Mart, is a/are good container(s), as are the other items listed below the main ad under 'frequently bought together'.

While wood tanks/casks are occasionally still employed, they are functionally obsolete (especially with the larger producers), and they are mostly all past the point where the remaining ones can impart meaningful attributes to the wine. BTW a horizontal cylindrical container is a cask, a vertical one is a tank. These days, wooden (usually oak) barrels are almost solely employed in making spirits, not wines. 'Oaked' wines, like chardonnay are fermented in steel tanks, with French Oak chips added. Also, Ports, Vermouth, and Sherries are made by a modern process where oxygen and heat are substituted for aging, and are fortified with Neutral Grain Spirits straight from the railway tank car. Of all the wines that are most closely produced relative to older methods are the Champagnes, Cold Duck, and Sparkling Wines. Some of the modern 'fruited' wines are made so by the addition of fruit essences at the time they are racked.

Again, all of this is relative to wines that are produced on an industrial scale. These are not 'bad' wines, if anything, they are actually better. They are more pure, more fresh, better managed and maintained through the production process, and a lot of volume allows for the cost of very precise monitoring and managing via highly effective laboratory evaluation. One of the hardest things to do, and the things best accomplished with a first rate lab, is the ability to maintain an as-expected flavor every time a customer opens a new bottle of product.

From an interview with Neil Diamond:

9. Who was Cracklin' Rosie anyway? I hate to disappoint people, but it's not a woman, it's an alcoholic beverage. The song is based on a story I heard about an Indian reservation with all men and no women. The guys would spend their Saturday nights at the bar with Cracklin' Rose wine.

We made it (Richard's Crackling Rose) and to my knowledge, it was the best substitute for Sweet Vermouth in a Manhattan Cocktail on the planet.

Greg

 

[sharac]

Yep we drink this here all the time (when apples are ripe ) best taste comes from old wild trees which grow besides roads (dunno the name but are pale yellow/greenish with red base, small and taste like lemon and originates from Germany) and are not used for anything else that i know of (juice/cider and vinegar). I personally don't like too sweet apples such as Idared or Jonagold (dunno if you use same naming for them) but some people like sweeter taste. Ofcourse thanks to the EU regulation (alcohol production is heavily regulated and taxed well you know how it goes...) selling homemade "spiced apple juice" is a no no and you only can buy it if you know people or as a DIY job.


Here we add nothing you simply squash them and press the juice out and we leave it to ferment naturally. Some people freeze it when fermented enough to their taste but i haven't tried that yet. If you're having problems with constipation this sure will get stuff going fast.

 

[lash]

Reading this brought back some great memories of my youth in the '70s. One year, my Father and brothers and I built a big juice/cider press and proceeded to press over 80 gallons of apple juice over the course of that summer/fall. Of course, we had no idea that we needed to prepare it, only that we had to consume it quickly before it started to turn bubbly. So we gave gallons and gallons away to anyone who wanted it.

I remember we had a great time in the making and consuming. And, while we may not have been making proper cider, it sure was tasty and had quite a kick to it when it got to be a week or so old. Thanks for the reminder!

 

[xs hedspace]

Way back when I was about 12, I found a jug of bubbly cider in Grandma's fridge at Easter. After a tall glass, I was bouncing of the walls. Grandma said she forgot she had it in there, from October---aunts and uncles quickly destroyed the evidence. Tasty, as I remember! Still planning on carbonating my too sweet hard cider--just found a source of dry ice, next town over.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Forgot to update, so here's the latest.

The dealer, and the area manager, both liked the cider. So we left it with them. I don't know if they were trying some sort of psychological sales-pitch or anything, but when the manager stated that she'd "drink that all weekend" I said "go ahead, and just replace my bottles." They also gave me a batch of Cabernet Sauvignon to make to replace the kit. I didn't ask for that, but I'll take it. I realize that peoples tastes differ, but wow. The label vs the contents didn't match at all.

Back to making the wine for the cellar, as well as the scratch-batch that we're thinking of bottling soon. Maybe even this week, as it's looking pretty-darn clear to us. What do you think?

(pic to follow soon, here)

 

[Strykervet]

I haven't in a long time, I want to though. My buddy has an AWESOME setup for homebrew --he has ALL the shit, and combined with my meager shit we can make about anything, bottled or kegged with a full size kegerator. We have 14gal. wine fermenters and carboys as well, but he stopped acquiring gear just before the stainless gear. We made some pretty good beers and I love that hopback.

My foray into cider making was a looong time ago, like 2005 or so, and I made about a 12% (if memory serves --I wanna say it was 14!). It was dry as hell, almost like water but thinner due to the alcohol content. If you wanted apple taste to it, it mixed damn well with that sparkling cider stuff. I used champagne yeast (which will yield a higher alcohol content that most ale yeasts will) and the pectin to stop the fermentation for bottling. I think it sat in the secondary for 3 or 6 months. I thought it would clear but it never did. I love dry cider over sweet, but that was a bit too dry.

Cider is FINALLY catching on up here. If you can find it, my absolute favorite right now (beer or cider --or anything for that matter) is Reverend Nats Hopricot. Apricots and dry hops. Man, that's the stuff right there. I always wanted to try that, hops anyway, he beat me to it and it's great.

Too bad I can't drink much anymore though, the alcohol makes me feel shitty these days.

It's usually cheaper, btw, to purchase cider. You want the "clean" stuff, you may have to look for it. We're famous for hops and apples here, so no shortage of either. The rare, fresh hops that haven't even hit the main market yet... That's where it's at. You gotta try dry hopping your secondary and maybe trying an ale yeast vs. the champagne yeast; I like White Labs for everything (and I always make a starter, I get fermentation in an hour or a bit more most times!). You gotta stop the fermentation though or it'll get so dry it won't have any flavor --which I hear is how lots of places make it, then they flavor it afterwards.

In short it's hard to mess it up if you aren't too picky about what you get. I think cider making at home isn't as well honed yet as beer for the most part. Good luck!

 

[Jungle George]

Um, we're making alcoholic (hard?) cider here, with the intent of it being sparkling, after it's bottled. Also, we want it to be as much "Granny Smith" tasting as possible. Neither of us like the 'sweet', so we much prefer the 'sour'.

You spoke of 'cold'... when making wine (nearly identical process, so we've been told) it needs to be between 72-75 degrees F, for the yeast to work. Will this be an issue?

Or are we speaking of two different things?

Be careful!!! I've had my share of cider expolsions over the years. Lots of fun to make and drink! *hic*

Cheers,

George

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Well, fwiw, my Lady and I bottled the cider on the 22nd of September. As luck would have it, neither of us thought or remembered to take any pictures.

We added the 1 1/4 cups of sugar, to carbonate the bottles. We added two bottles of "Green Apple Essence" because all of the actual apple flavour was 'eaten up' by the yeast and made it nearly like "alcoholic water". As it is, the illustrious liquid is 9.2% and we're good with that. We also added 2 cups of Splenda to the 5 gallons, just to take the 'edge off' and make it more palatable.

We're going to let that sit for at least a few weeks, then start appreciating it. Just in time for winter. Next year, our summer will be enjoyed a little differently. Thanks for watching.