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Suppressors Seen a cool 223 suppressor today

Zevdogs

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 5, 2010
222
0
58
Utah
Was at the range and this guy had a type I've never seen before , it slid over the barrel about 3 inches before it screwed on the end of his AR -15 and it had a Collete setup on the back Of the suppressor that you would tighten to help align it to the barrel and it would also keep the suppressor from unscrewing
he said it was a old navy seals suppressor from the late 70s
it sure was quite less than a standard 22
 
Re: Seen a cool 223 suppressor today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B. Melick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds like an older reflex suppressor design.
Was it a Colt Moderator on a CAR-15/XM-177? </div></div>

like this http://www.autoweapons.com/photosv/coltmoderator.html

no it was bigger and it also had some kind of adjustable vent on the back that pointed down
 
Re: Seen a cool 223 suppressor today

Look at these photos (black and white at bottom) and come on back and let us know....

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=714466#Post714466

If it is, have at it..note page 86 (center bottom) titanium in use in 1966.

http://www.smallarmsreview.com/pdf/hel556.pdf

and the man himself

100222-193648.jpg

 
Re: Seen a cool 223 suppressor today

Why is a reflex design not used much anymore? I think Ops Inc, still makes a few but everyone else has stopped making them, why?
 
Re: Seen a cool 223 suppressor today

Good question, the advantage of the reflex design was intended to:

1. Reduce overall suppressed platform length.

2. Provide the means to insure bore alignment through multiple attachment points and having those points be seperated along the same axis.

3. Potentially provide for a more robust barrel/suppressor lock up.

All were accomplished including one that wasn't anticipated when reflective suppressors were designed, that being, dealing with the reverse gas pathing created by QD breaks. In that instance those gases could path rearward (as intended) and limit the disruption caused.

But, as with all things, there were consequences.

1. Barrel heat retention was excessive. Retained heat at the end of the barrel rose much higher than anticipated. Now the barrel didn't only deal with the new dwell time heat build imposed by suppressors, but also the heat "wrap" effect of the reflective design. Barrels didn't cool as effectively. Faster mirage effect that was also retained longer was experienced.

2. Trapment of debris. Early reflective designs threw the intial particulate laden gases rearward, creating an unusually high amount of debris at the one point within the new designs that was the most difficult to keep clean and was least likely to benefit from the newer "pass through" baffling. In speaking with the guys that did the cleaning, they told me that pitting was also a problem.

One company that did a great deal of departmental and military suppressor rebuilding themselves provided early reflective designed suppressors. They stopped quickly in their own production and to this day still open up reflective cans to clean and rebuild them for "others." According to them, barrel life from reflective designs was cut significantly, especially in high volume of fire applications. They also stated that a major complaint was very poor accuracy as strings opened up quickly on light barrel profiles.

Que BJ....
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Early Ritchie Windrunner (fielded) incorporating the barrel profile that supported a reflective can's back end. In the absence of the reflective can, this 38+/- pound beast would have been even longer.

afghanistan1.jpg


 
Re: Seen a cool 223 suppressor today

The reason you see not much Reflex design anymore is because it does not work well. Silencer in front of the barrel where the gas comes out, works well, silencer behind the barrel or in your back pocket does not work well because that is where the muzzle blast is not at.

With modern designs and QD rock sold mounts there is little need for over the barrel two point mounts to maintain alignment.\

I have the Ceiner 2 point mount for M16 shortest barrel it can go on is 14"5" it is 12" long and just as quiet as a 6" screw on silencer.
 
Re: Seen a cool 223 suppressor today

With regards to the back over the barrel / reflex type suppressors.

Here is one of our S series S5 suppressors on the left, next to a BR T8 Reflex. They have both measured 140 dB, 1 m left of the muzzle in independent testing ( reflecting our own testing almost identically )

S_series_S5vsReflex_T8.JPG


The S series S5 adds 11 cm / 4.33" to the length of a weapon and the T8 adds 9.8 cm / 3.85"

Obviously the internal design can improve the effectiveness of a back over the barrel type suppressor, but many of them do not have a very good performance/size ratio.
 
Re: Seen a cool 223 suppressor today

I thought that can volume played into level of suppression <span style="text-decoration: underline">nearly</span> as much as baffle design, since the goal is to capture hot gases and cool them? I have a trident but am trying to learn as much as possible before I decide on a rifle can.
 
Re: Seen a cool 223 suppressor today

There is truth to that statement, but the "volume" has to be in the right place within the stack to be effective for sound suppression. We don't want to "capture" the gases at all, in fact the best new designs do the opposit, they "divert and flow/path" the gases and the debris forward to keep the cans clean. "Capture" baffles are passe now, a good design gas paths efficiently. Heat retention is also an issue, especially in reflex cans (see above.)

BIG difference in the whole design approach between single shot/ precision cans and full auto / high volume designs and for very good reasons.

Monster volume can be quiet, remarkably so in fact, but can be relatively fragile as well. Here is that taken to the extreme, heat retention here would become a HUGE issue in high volume fire...but for a pull and pack, no issue. In this system, diversion rearward is everything as the stack is relatively small. I suspect sub-sonic here as the sonic signature is too low. Note, here even the compensator remains and diverts rearward, just with no effect. In fact, in this design nothing threads on the muzzle at all. Dedicated design although not, by definition, an integral. The barrel in use here also has a reflective "shoulder" on it although, not is use. Odd duck indeed!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSfVJNEiQw4





 
Re: Seen a cool 223 suppressor today

Thanks RT, part of my indecision on the rifle suppressor is all the new designs coming to market. With the Osprey and AAC tirant performing so much better than their predecessors, it makes me wonder what's in store for the rifle suppressor segment.
 
Re: Seen a cool 223 suppressor today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Que BJ....
laugh.gif

</div></div>
I agree with what you said this time. It's nice when you don't make up crap.
 
Re: Seen a cool 223 suppressor today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuukka</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is this you?

http://www.spearpointtechnology.com.au/p...%20products.pdf

</div></div>

Yes, that is from the website our Australian / NZ military and law enforcement representative.

Will you show us your baffle stack desighn please??

Best Regards!

Tuukka Jokinen
Ase Utra sound suppressors </div></div>
 
Re: Seen a cool 223 suppressor today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David Hineline</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since the biggest noise in rifle silencers is the speed of the bullet, nothing new is comming. </div></div>

David, I'm not sure I know what you mean here. If you mean to say that the largest source of noise that the suppressor has to silence is sonic signature, that would not be correct.

BJ, I feel like a new man...
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