Self Defense or Murder
- Thread starter Maggot
- Start date
Morality and legality don't mix well in a court of law. A CC permit is called that for a reason. CONCEALED! If you want to just show off you're carrying a gun, just OC instead of CC. Or hell, do both.
This was my first thought. Whether we can peaceably continue to bear arms will be ultimately decided in the court of public opinion. Hot heads running around shooting unarmed people after provoking them is the absolute last thing we need.
There was a time that I wouldn't hesitate to rudely let people know when they were being jackasses. I couldn't stand that form of entitlement that leads to doing whatever you want and to hell with anyone else, it made me furious, and I enjoyed confrontation. Then I started carrying. Then I had kids. Suffice it to say my worldview changed.
Rule #1: Don't start shit. When you have a deadly weapon you need to avoid confrontation.
Rule #2: Even if you didn't start it, if you can get out of there you must.
Sure, you can be a macho man and stand your ground. I hope you like sitting in the defendant's chair and maybe rotting in jail. The first thing a liberal DA is going to do is make sure the jury knows that you could have walked away and no one would be dead.
The cold truth is that if you're involved in a defensive shooting, your life is going to be pretty bad for a while and maybe for the rest of it. Are there instances in which you have no choice? Sure. Otherwise we wouldn't carry. BUT, with great power comes great responsibility and when you take up the mantle of protecting your family with a deadly weapon you give up the ability to be citizen arrest tough guy. It's that simple.
I'll beat feet if possible before drawing every time for the simple fact that I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like the taste of cock or toilet wine.
lakey shouldnt have put his hands on super dick, i fail to see how you can see it at as anything but that...
regardless of any thing else that happened on the planet, being a dick forever, whatever, game changed when he knocked him to the ground, period
regardless of any thing else that happened on the planet, being a dick forever, whatever, game changed when he knocked him to the ground, period
I can assure you nobody at that gas station was calling le.
But then again I didn't tell them it was rude to smoke crack in public.
Broke leather looked him in the face and shook my head.
Did not intend to let anymore gap close.
I switch between cc and open carry in Texas.
Brandishing was warrented in that case by resonable judgment.
But then again I didn't tell them it was rude to smoke crack in public.
Broke leather looked him in the face and shook my head.
Did not intend to let anymore gap close.
I switch between cc and open carry in Texas.
Brandishing was warrented in that case by resonable judgment.
Btw I know about "alleged" brandishing, you can get arrested, it can cost you 5000$ even if eventually being dismissed by the judge!
My advice is don't if you have the option.
Also sign up for competent legal protection like Law shield before this hapens to you.
My advice is don't if you have the option.
Also sign up for competent legal protection like Law shield before this hapens to you.
This is such a sad situation.
Reflect. What are we taught in concealed carry classes? What are we continually reminded about in all concealed carry training books, videos, and courses? De-escalate.
I sympathize with the old guy, but he is not the parking police. The wife shouldn't have parked in the handicap only zone. The husband shouldn't have bum rushed the old guy. People have been killed knocking them to the pavement. But, they did.
Honestly, I would not have been in the situation. I don't go around playing morality cop, parking cop, or any other kind of cop. That doesn't mean that someday I won't find myself being bum rushed by some moron and knocked to the ground for some affront I didn't even know I committed. Even if I did, pulling a weapon on them is an escalation. If they de-escalate by backing off, I hold my weapon on them and call the cops, or possibly get up and back off, holstering.
But, I wasn't there. Few were. For some reason, the shooter felt the need to shoot the man, and only he knows why for certain. Evidently the local LE believed he felt his life was in danger or they would have charged him.
There are no winners in a situation like this.
Reflect. What are we taught in concealed carry classes? What are we continually reminded about in all concealed carry training books, videos, and courses? De-escalate.
I sympathize with the old guy, but he is not the parking police. The wife shouldn't have parked in the handicap only zone. The husband shouldn't have bum rushed the old guy. People have been killed knocking them to the pavement. But, they did.
Honestly, I would not have been in the situation. I don't go around playing morality cop, parking cop, or any other kind of cop. That doesn't mean that someday I won't find myself being bum rushed by some moron and knocked to the ground for some affront I didn't even know I committed. Even if I did, pulling a weapon on them is an escalation. If they de-escalate by backing off, I hold my weapon on them and call the cops, or possibly get up and back off, holstering.
But, I wasn't there. Few were. For some reason, the shooter felt the need to shoot the man, and only he knows why for certain. Evidently the local LE believed he felt his life was in danger or they would have charged him.
There are no winners in a situation like this.
By the fact of one round to the FRONT of the chest, it proves that the shover was still looking to escalate the situation. If that round was in the back, it would have been a much different legal outcome for the shooter.
Case closed! Welcome to the gunshine state
https://images.search.yahoo.com/ima....crumb=7BfcQsTQ.eo&fr=yfp-hrmob-s&fr2=piv-web
Ive watched it over and over. I was moving to bad shoot when I noticed the behavior immediately before and after the single shot. The agessor pushes the man. Slow the video...
He pushes the man down, AND ADVANCES, sees the gun as it comes out, halts his attack as he is shot.
The aggressor did not stop his attack until the gun was out. At the time of e shot, the aggressor was trying to halt his attack.
He pushes the man down, AND ADVANCES, sees the gun as it comes out, halts his attack as he is shot.
The aggressor did not stop his attack until the gun was out. At the time of e shot, the aggressor was trying to halt his attack.
For me SYG laws are to prevent a leftist prosecutor from wrongfully imprisoning a citizen who was lawfully defending themselves and their family. Is there a perfect law that deals perfect justice? NO, hell no. This looks like a case where it was an unnecessary shoot, but a legal one.
That was essentially my thought. In most other places he would be charged and would face a shit storm of legal problems.
I watched the video several times and i say Murder as well..or at least ,deadly force was used.
I still think the guy was in the wrong by shoving him to the ground.
Was the man on the ground wrong for defending himself from a PHYSICAL ATTACK? No.
Did the aggressor not stop his attack until the moment of the shot? Yes.
He attacked, then ADVANCED ATTACK, until he saw the gun as it was being aimed.
Case: Good shoot under the current law
SJW take: Bad shoot becuase it could be seen as overstepping escalation of force
We will never know what the aggressor was going to do DUE TO THE GUN BEING USED. Had there been no gun, I fully believe a flurry of kicks etc would have happened.
Did the aggressor not stop his attack until the moment of the shot? Yes.
He attacked, then ADVANCED ATTACK, until he saw the gun as it was being aimed.
Case: Good shoot under the current law
SJW take: Bad shoot becuase it could be seen as overstepping escalation of force
We will never know what the aggressor was going to do DUE TO THE GUN BEING USED. Had there been no gun, I fully believe a flurry of kicks etc would have happened.
With your last statement I agree.
Still, the guy was known for provoking trouble at that spot. An ass whipping may have been in order.
Busy-body with a gun created a bad situation and solved it by killing someone. Freedom sure is grand. 
What's that supposed to mean? We're better off disarmed and subjects of The State?Busy-body with a gun created a bad situation and solved it by killing someone. Freedom sure is grand.
It was communist prosecutors, whose gross miscarriage of justice by prosecution of victims defending themselves from violent attackers, that necessitated Stand Your Ground Laws in the first place.
If we're going to err I would rather it be on the side of those defending themselves from attacks than laws that side with the attackers, or laws that prevent free men from defending themselves.
Again, if you have some perfect law that deals perfect justice on all occasions then by all means please share the verbiage with us.
Busy-body with a gun created a bad situation and solved it by killing someone. Freedom sure is grand.
It sure gives one some Martin/Zimmerman vibes don't it?
Thats not at all what he was saying. As I read it, hes saying, that if dipshit had been minding his own business someone wouldnt be dead now. I agree.
Kind of like a woman goes out to get laid, doesnt use birth control, get pregnant, then wants an abortion. Had she kept her drawers up there would be no need for the abortion. Or someone breaking into a home getting shot. Had they kept on up the street they wouldnt have gotten shot. As someone above said, "Just because you can do something, doesnt mean its a good choice." Perhaps this will inform you.
Secundum quid - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secundum_quid
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I'm still trying to figure out how anyone can blame the guy who told the ooga that it was illegally parked . . . . That's not a crime, but assault is, as was done by the male. Looking back to Martin/Zimmerman, yes it is similar - both involve a male who did not have the brain power to come up with any response better than assault as a response to a legal, non-criminal action, and found out the hard way that that kind of stupid can be fatal . . . .
Being as asshole (or just pointing out an illegal act) isn't illegal. Assault is. Defending against assault is also legal in FL. Nothing more . . .
Being as asshole (or just pointing out an illegal act) isn't illegal. Assault is. Defending against assault is also legal in FL. Nothing more . . .
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I guess it needs to be "you" on the ground before it makes any sense. Playing mall cop is not worthy of a shove down. But a shove down can be worthy of fear.
Means that freedom is messy ... it means that morons, who deserve freedom as much as any one else, will do moronic things with it. Means that law and what's right are sometimes at odds. Means that assholes get to be murderers and get away with it sometimes. Shit happens when you and the idiot next to you are both free. You and I agree on the side of erring ... I just happen to have a dark view of the consequences produced by that side (even if its the best we can do).
I think by acting like an entitled person that they actually started the shit in the first place.
Kind of like rolling up to a corner and flipping everyone off, then wondering why they throw things at you.
Seems like present mentality is certain groops feel the need to act entiteled.
Daring any any all to even take notice, baiting normal people.
That is what I think, they are baiting people on purpose!
They intend to start shit with thier actions.
Only occasionally will anyone do anything about it including le .
Kind of like rolling up to a corner and flipping everyone off, then wondering why they throw things at you.
Seems like present mentality is certain groops feel the need to act entiteled.
Daring any any all to even take notice, baiting normal people.
That is what I think, they are baiting people on purpose!
They intend to start shit with thier actions.
Only occasionally will anyone do anything about it including le .
He is getting blamed because he was the one who started the whole ordeal to begin with. If he would have just minded his own business and let any passing traffic cops deal with the girl, then nothing would have happened. But no, he felt it was his job to play judge jury and executioner and confronted a girl about his size and when her much larger boyfriend came out to deal with it, he got his ass handed to him to the point where he felt the need to shoot. I've noticed that lots (if not all) people who hide behind the law, are people who lack common sense. I'm not really able to decide whether it was a good shoot or not, but from what my eyes tell me, the pusher was no longer a threat once the gun was drawn and began to slowly retreat. Apparently other folks here are seeing things differently.
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Or like if some woman hadn't parked in a handicapped spot, the busy body wouldn't have bothered?
Where does this line of logic end?
It's like the time my buddy blamed me when he broke his sunglasses helping me move a bookcase. Because he was careless it was my fault because of how I wanted to move the bookcase. Pretty fucking stupid if you ask me. But that's a victims mentality. Always someone else's fault.
1. My wife would have rolled the window up and dialed 911.......
Told the police there was some insane fool with a gun being stupid.
And waited for #2.
2. After w rolled the window up, and all that, and I walked out the store, got in the car, and we started to leave, we would wait for #3.
#3 all depends on what insane with gun does.
Be nice to everyone you meet. Nice doesn't mean weak or afraid. And, have a plan, James Mattis, USMC Ret...
Had the deceased ignored the shooter with cold calculated disrespect through superior strength, walked by him, and got in the car, totally different outcome....
Nothing, required him to use shove to "defend" his wife....
Nothing, required her to respond to "the mouth".
Nothing, required "mouth" to enforce parking rules.
Everyone agrees there was a better way to handle it. ALL parties exhibited a degree of stupid, and you cant fix stupid...
Stupid started it, stupid pushed it, and stupid finished it. All, over stupid, a man is dead.
18 of the dead man's peers will have the chance to indict, and if they do, 12 will have a chance to convict or turn loose. It's up to that due process now.
Resolution 1. Reduce stupid.
Told the police there was some insane fool with a gun being stupid.
And waited for #2.
2. After w rolled the window up, and all that, and I walked out the store, got in the car, and we started to leave, we would wait for #3.
#3 all depends on what insane with gun does.
Be nice to everyone you meet. Nice doesn't mean weak or afraid. And, have a plan, James Mattis, USMC Ret...
Had the deceased ignored the shooter with cold calculated disrespect through superior strength, walked by him, and got in the car, totally different outcome....
Nothing, required him to use shove to "defend" his wife....
Nothing, required her to respond to "the mouth".
Nothing, required "mouth" to enforce parking rules.
Everyone agrees there was a better way to handle it. ALL parties exhibited a degree of stupid, and you cant fix stupid...
Stupid started it, stupid pushed it, and stupid finished it. All, over stupid, a man is dead.
18 of the dead man's peers will have the chance to indict, and if they do, 12 will have a chance to convict or turn loose. It's up to that due process now.
Resolution 1. Reduce stupid.
That would solve so many of the problems that come up these days. Pity few people try it.
If more people had to back up their words/actions with their life, we might be on the way to a responsible society. We used to have presidents that participated in duels to the death for christ's sake.
Just my .02
Just my .02
Ahhhhhh, in today's world you DO have to back up your actions/words with your life. This event is proof of it.....
With any armed thug life in a bad hood, you best be prepared.
With any armed thug life in a good hood, you best be prepared.
With any armed "fill in the blank" in your house or back yard, you best be prepared.
With any armed fool in a parking lot, you best be prepared
With you, with somebody pushing you, and thug or fool best be prepared....
True or false....
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If the world has come to the point that we are expected to silently ignore illegal behaviour since it might rile the oogas, I want off! If anything, he was doing her a favor since a call to police would have earned a hefty fine . . . The guy took appropriate action and questioned an illegal act, and was likely rewarded with a blast of verbal jaboonery. Yeah, tempers likely flared at that point (since the she was clearly incapable of comprehending the violation and simply moving the shitwagon), but at no point in time was the subsequent assault by the male justified or warranted. *HE* was the one who started the violance and escalated - prior to that, it was simply words, which are harmless (well, other than in the perception of the feeble minded . . . ).
Baby Jesse/Al involved now.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...p-markeis-mcglockton-attorney-0726-story.html
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...p-markeis-mcglockton-attorney-0726-story.html
My wife would have immediately apologized for the parking violation and moved the car, and nothing else would have occurred. Wrong and proud of it is nothing to brag about . . . and likely the bigmouth here was the entitled ooga who likely still hasn't figured out it was breaking the law in the first place . . .
Obviously, then, jaboonery overwhelmed her and she failed to show it, since that also would likely have ended this . . . .
Also, considering that's the first I have heard of this, it assumes the tag is a) real b) valid and c) actually hers and not something slipped to her later so that they could play the lottery and 'stick it to whitey' . . . . Other than stupid (which doesn't get a placard) or 900lbs, not many disabilities for breeding age oogas like this . . .
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There are four kinds of Homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable, and praiseworthy.
- Ambrose Bierce
I am certainly not calling this one felonious
- Ambrose Bierce
I am certainly not calling this one felonious
Where all of a sudden did we find a handicap tag, was not mentioned on initial news reports.
My grandson has one, my wife and I have used it once in 5 years to my knowledge,
Lot was full for a hundred yards and he has trouble walking.
Most of the time I just let him hoble along, not much slower than grampa anyways.
Does kind of piss me off to see anyone abuse those spots
My grandson has one, my wife and I have used it once in 5 years to my knowledge,
Lot was full for a hundred yards and he has trouble walking.
Most of the time I just let him hoble along, not much slower than grampa anyways.
Does kind of piss me off to see anyone abuse those spots
@w54, @snuby, @swbee..
***No hc tag with FL. ***
The detail was part of secondary discussion of better ways to act. Re a response to post 131, my post.
I believe tadawson misunderstood 131, based on his response in post 139..
I tried to clarify that in post 140.
Net Service glitches and post didnt print right. Dawson in 141 further appears to have misunderstood.
Had to deal with feral hogs and unable to respond sooner...
Hopefully to clarify.
MY wife WAS in a Walmart parking lot in a similar situation, hang tag was broke, laying on dash. She ignored the ass and called police.
If the ass had been less of an ass, she would have picked up the placard and showed it to him, but, instead, she chose to ignore him... and dial 911.. no further drama except ass was left standing there with no audience.... looking like the ass he was.
Yes, WE drove off b4 the police arrived. No drama from us at all.
If you give an ass an audience and feed his drama, you put yourself in ass's shit sandwich. You dont have to...
Doofus/female in FL could have done something similar, like ignore or leave, with a much better ending....
Doofus/female choosing to argue with Doofus/male instead of rolling up the window and ignoring him..... too f'g easy...
Internet English clarity glitch. Sorry. I stand by post 131...
***No hc tag with FL. ***
The detail was part of secondary discussion of better ways to act. Re a response to post 131, my post.
I believe tadawson misunderstood 131, based on his response in post 139..
I tried to clarify that in post 140.
Net Service glitches and post didnt print right. Dawson in 141 further appears to have misunderstood.
Had to deal with feral hogs and unable to respond sooner...
Hopefully to clarify.
MY wife WAS in a Walmart parking lot in a similar situation, hang tag was broke, laying on dash. She ignored the ass and called police.
If the ass had been less of an ass, she would have picked up the placard and showed it to him, but, instead, she chose to ignore him... and dial 911.. no further drama except ass was left standing there with no audience.... looking like the ass he was.
Yes, WE drove off b4 the police arrived. No drama from us at all.
If you give an ass an audience and feed his drama, you put yourself in ass's shit sandwich. You dont have to...
Doofus/female in FL could have done something similar, like ignore or leave, with a much better ending....
Doofus/female choosing to argue with Doofus/male instead of rolling up the window and ignoring him..... too f'g easy...
Internet English clarity glitch. Sorry. I stand by post 131...
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Sorry j-huskey I miss understood that it was fl.
I don't disagree with your post.
My grandson has spina bifida, and a lot of trouble walking,
We just don't use the tag much but she might pistol whip someone for jacking with her about it.
I make him walk and don't cut him any slack on nothing.
Trying to condition him for when he meets asses that dont love him.
Makes my wife mad when I do.
I don't disagree with your post.
My grandson has spina bifida, and a lot of trouble walking,
We just don't use the tag much but she might pistol whip someone for jacking with her about it.
I make him walk and don't cut him any slack on nothing.
Trying to condition him for when he meets asses that dont love him.
Makes my wife mad when I do.
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