Shooting 100 & 200 Yards

Barry Thomas

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Went to the range today looking for the most accurate brand, turned out to be Lapua Midas M .25" at 50 yards. Took it to 100 and it wasnt even close. Had some Wolf that grouped .51" at 50 yards but shot the best at 100. I could actually see the rounds arc into the target at 100 yards thru the 36X scope. I would expect the groups to be about .75 to 1.0 " with a .25" group at 50 Yards. I saw groups in the range of 1.5-2.0 inches at best and that might be pushing it. Are you guys shooting 200 yards using high velocity rounds? It was pretty cool seeing the rounds arc to the target but I couldn't imagine what kind of elevation one would need for 200 and the flight time too boot. Heres a picture of my group at 50.
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JoeMartin

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Re: Shooting 100 & 200 Yards

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bobwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you guys shooting 200 yards using high velocity rounds? It was pretty cool seeing the rounds arc to the target but I couldn't imagine what kind of elevation one would need for 200 and the flight time too boot.</div></div>

Many of us are using subsonic rounds for 200 yard shooting as they do not transition in flight from HV to Subsonic which is said to cause a wobble when HV .22LR transitions on the way to the 200 yard target. I've heard this transition occures anywhere from 75 yards and out.

At this time I'm getting about 27 MOA drop with my setup at 200 yards, (Savage Mark II FVT, 20 MOA Base, 6-24x42 Mil-Dot Scope.) There's plenty of interesting post on this 200 yard subject here in these threads.
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That's some very nice 50 yard shooting by the way!
 

kansas45

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Re: Shooting 100 & 200 Yards

Not to change the subject Joe, but what base are you useing in your Savage?
Thanks
Sam
 

JoeMartin

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Re: Shooting 100 & 200 Yards

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kansas45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to change the subject Joe, but what base are you useing in your Savage?
Thanks
Sam </div></div>

Mine took the Savage 93 (1-5/8" Ejection Port) Picatinny Rail Scope Mount 20 MOA, from EGW.

http://egw-guns.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=39&products_id=298
 

clmayfield

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Re: Shooting 100 & 200 Yards

With a 50 yard zero, I get a 2.2 - 2.3 mil drop to 100 yards (actually 110) and a 7.5 mil drop to 200 yards (actually 215).

My 5-shot long run average groups in MOA are about .55 MOA at 50 yards, .95 MOA at 100 yards, and 1.55 MOA at 200 yards. I only have 7 groups at 200 yards, so that is still developing (plus, I shot two of those without a rear-bag... I would complain, but they were two of my tightest groups!), but I have dozens of groups at 50 and 100 yards, so those numbers are pretty spot on.

So basically, with a 22LR, you can see that group size increases about a half an MOA every time you double the range (for my gun at least). Based on that, at 300 yards, I would expect somewhere between 1.8 MOA and 2.5 MOA, but who knows? That is a lot of elevation... and a lot of windage, too. The dispersion at 200 yards is mostly horizontal.

I was shooting turtles the other day at ranges between 60 and 85 yards, and it was incredible the amount of drop you get in this tight range. I was holding off .1 - .6 mils based on my 50 yard zero. Obviously, when varmint hunting with a 22, you need to know your drops.
 

clmayfield

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Re: Shooting 100 & 200 Yards

Oh, and another thought... it was posted above... wind has a lot to do with group size at 100 yards. Make sure that you shoot a lot of groups to get an average. I have a target that I need to scan in that illustrates this perfectly. I shot two groups back to back... both grouped extremely well, about .8 MOA at 100. I did not adjust windage and one groups was about half an inch to the left of the bull and the other was half an inch to the right. I didn't even notice a major wind shift, so imagine if the wind shifted in the middle of a group...

Because of the wind effect, I look a little more closely at horizontal vs vertical dispersion when selecting ammo. If I don't get a lot of vertical dispersion, I tend to like that more than if I am getting a lot of vertical dispersion but a little bit of horizontal dispersion. You are trying to test your ammo, not your wind reading capabilities.
 

pascal

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Re: Shooting 100 & 200 Yards

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My 5-shot long run average groups in MOA are about .55 MOA at 50 yards, .95 MOA at 100 yards, and 1.55 MOA at 200 yards. </div></div>

I dunno what to say to that - it's not real to me.

I've done a lot of precision matches and <span style="font-weight: bold">average</span> groups of .95 MOAs at 100 yards and 1.55 MOA at 200 yards are...well...let's just say I still have to see it as an "average".

My actual observation from my own experience and watching other precision shooters is that you get usually 3x from your average grouping at 50 yards. I'm VERY happy when I am within 1.5 MOA at 100 yards and within 4-6 inches at 200 yards.

300 yards is MOT (minute of Turkey) - more like 10-12 inches

We're actually having an "all paper" match at 100 yards next month in SoCal so I'm curious to see what the shooters will do. I think the best will be in the 1.5 MOAs or slightly below that. With 20 shooters, many of them experienced and good gears, this should give a good estimate.
 

clmayfield

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Re: Shooting 100 & 200 Yards

Desert Frog, I don't know what to say to that... I am not making it up. Now, I don't have real confidence in the 200 yard figure. It is based on 7 groups. I will have to count the number of groups that I have shot at 100 and 50, but it is a lot. I will post the numbers later on.

I don't even compete. All of those were shot from a bipod in the prone positions with a rear bag. They were also shot with the bipod feet in the well of a UMat. I don't understand how I am getting different results than others. It sure would be nice to get some witnesses, if I am getting such disbelief.

Also, DF, these are 5-shot groups. How many shots in the groups that you are talking about? In rimfire, you tend to see shots in groups of 10, not 5, which will make a big difference.
 

pascal

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Re: Shooting 100 & 200 Yards

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Desert Frog, I don't know what to say to that... I am not making it up. Now, I don't have real confidence in the 200 yard figure. It is based on 7 groups. I will have to count the number of groups that I have shot at 100 and 50, but it is a lot. I will post the numbers later on.

I don't even compete. All of those were shot from a bipod in the prone positions with a rear bag. They were also shot with the bipod feet in the well of a UMat. I don't understand how I am getting different results than others. It sure would be nice to get some witnesses, if I am getting such disbelief.

Also, DF, these are 5-shot groups. How many shots in the groups that you are talking about? In rimfire, you tend to see shots in groups of 10, not 5, which will make a big difference. </div></div>

Carter, I'm not saying you don't tell the truth - that's why I simply said it's not real to me - it's the kind of thing that I would like to see someone doing next to me. Those are really small groups, mostly at 200yards.

On my side, I could see that happening in a stricly no wind situation but even as an average, pheeww! u beat me! I'm actually more like an average shooter, the one thing I have on my side is consistency through stages during matches.

But hey, more power to you if u can achieve that. U should compete!

 

clmayfield

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Re: Shooting 100 & 200 Yards

OK, I have the numbers... these are based on 40 groups at 50 yards and 60 groups at 100. I am not counting the 15 or so boxes I shot up while ammo testing.

The ARA is pretty active in my area, but it is all bench rest. I like to shoot in prone. I haven't asked if they will let me enter shooting in the prone... plus, they are all 50 yards. I can shoot a little over 2,000 on their targets, which is good enough to place in spots 3 - 5 in most comps.

I would be interested to see if there are any longer distance competitions in my area that would allow me to shoot the way I shoot.
 

sscoyote

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Re: Shooting 100 & 200 Yards

I was having a lot of fun with my Ruger Charger (until i changed lot#'s of Stingers). I was netting 1435 mv out of the little 10" barrel and about 2 MOA at 100, 2-4 MOA at 150, and 3-5 @ 200 (just a few groups on no wind mornings). But this is a hunting rig that i use for rabbits and a few prairie dogs. I have the 3-9x Pride Fowler with 22 Long Rifle Rapid Reticle. Made a couple kills out to 150 and haven't tried anything further tho i doubt i will, since i can't be selective on wind for hunting days.
 

TOP PREDATOR

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Re: Shooting 100 & 200 Yards

most match style ammo is standard or subsonic because: http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...231#Post1173231

not saying that high or hyper velocity wront or doesn't work, but if you stay below the sound barrier from the beginning, it's one less variable that'll drive you crazy later.

my sk match ammo is at 1040 fps, drops 8.3 inches at 100 with a 50 yard zero, and depending on temp, drops 67 to 69 inches at 200.

the wolf stuff is good also, seems to shoot well through everyones stuff.

this is my average at 100
HPIM1207.jpg


and 200

HPIM1205.jpg


thats not using a rear bag and prone. they usualy shrink .25" to .5 inch at 100 and 1.5" to 2.5 inches at 200 when using a bag and bench.
 

Lineman711

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Re: Shooting 100 & 200 Yards

To the OP, my CZ seems to group best at all ranges with Federal 711B ammo, which is subsonic. I normally only shoot out to 100 yards with .22 LR, but I stretch it out to 200 just for fun every now and then.

It seems that you were maybe thinking, and correct me if I'm wrong, that for short range, subsonic would be the way to go. And for longer range shots, high velocity would be best. In my experience, it's pretty much opposite. At 50 yards, everything seems to make tiny little groups. At 100, 711B and Wolf MT are grouping better than anything else I've tried. The CCI Standard and 719 are just a little bit less accurate here than subsonic. Now at 200, only thing that's not completely embarrassing is the match ammo--subsonic.

Remember though, every rimfire is different. I'm no pro by any means. 1 MOA is still great for me at 100.
 

clmayfield

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Re: Shooting 100 & 200 Yards

Desert Frog, I shot another 6 5-shot groups today at 215 yds and got the following measurements CTC: 2 1/8", 6", 2 11/16", 1 3/4", 3 1/8", 2 1/2". Converting to MOA, that gives me .94, 2.66, 1.19, .78, 1.38, 1.11. That gives me an average today of 1.34 MOA. These were all with a bipod rear sandbag. On the 6", it was sort of a guess because the bullet hole dropped down to the next target. Every once in a while, with this lot of ammo, I get an undercharge, and that was it.

I have some other targets from today that I can post later on. I have a few 100 yard 5 X 5's I can post. I will need to run those in On Target. The 200 yarders I can measure by hand no problem. For tighter groups, I am not very handy with calipers or a tape measure for that matter.

Some ammo that I had all but written off months ago was shooting lights out today at 100 yards. I am interested in seeing if the results replicate some ammo that I had a while back that gave me a 5 X 5 at around .77 MOA and one at around .85 MOA!

I don't think my results are from being a great shooter... I think I lucked into a great gun. I bought it off of nesikabay on the Hide who bought it off of 95LTZ on the Hide who bought it off of Lige Harris, who had it custom made by Gene Davis. I don't know why anyone would ever sell this rifle... and to have it be sold twice! I am dubbing it 40x-caliber, because it has some magical properties.

Also, I think that the Eley ammo helps. I obsess about finding the right lot and the Eley bullet with the dimple nose gives it a slightly better BC than the typical round nose ammo on the market. If you look at the ammo in the winner's circle for rimfire, both benchrest and position shooting, it is dominated by Eley. And it is not because Eley is so great, but rather because they keep good track of their production lots. They test each lot for velocity out of standardized rifles and they also demarcate which machine the ammo was made on. My gun does really well with 1059 - 1063 fps ammo made on machine #5, for instance. This allows me to test only ammo that is likely to be good for my gun. There are a lot of little tricks to rimfire... and also a lot of superstition. Like it doesn't make sense to me why one machine would be better than another, but after extensive testing, it turns out that it is true (at least based on my analysis).