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Shooting range hearing damage from other shooters guns?

L

Long Range

Private
Minuteman
Apr 8, 2014
73
1
I take noise induced hearing damage more seriously than most people and in the past when I would go out and shoot it was in the desert by myself.

I am in a different state and there is no desert shooting for me, I will have to go to a range.

At the range what I noticed is that not only will you be hearing your shots, but the many other people around you shots.

Of course I will be doubling up on both ear plugs and ear muffs but the issue I'm worried about is the bone induced hearing damage. I read where some people say that using a muzzle brake gave him bone induced damage even though they were using hearing protection.

My question to you guys who stay at the range for hours, are you not worried about the many people shooting around you, constantly bombarding you with gun shots and many of them using loud muzzle brakes.

What I found from my research is that hearing protection only reduces the noise so much as you will get bone induced hearing damage. Studies show that in certain areas of the world, certain tribes were studied who had very little exposure to loud noises and these people showed that they maintained most of their hearing into old age. Old age hearing loss is not inevitable. This means that most of the people who have hearing loss when they are older is because of the environmental noises they were exposed to. I just don't want to be one of those old guys who can't hear anything like my father, so I am very strict with this.
 
I have about your same attitude when it comes to protecting my hearing. The facility I go to is nice in that it has a range where it has "tunnels" that you shoot through and cinderblocks between bays. Combined with doubled up hearing protection and I don't leave the range with ears ringing. However it has the downside that they only shoot from benches so that's a negative. Currently am looking for a local place I can shoot from different positions.
 
double up ear muffs and plugs and youre pretty good. of course, there is always some idiot with a .50 cal who always seem to find himself in the middle of the line.
 
Question
If a patient wears earmuffs in combination with custom made earplugs, can you still get hearing loss through bone conduction (through the skull) when shooting a variety of guns? What is the rate of attenuation from external noise to the cochlea through bone conduction?
Answer
The limits to the attenuation for a perfectly attenuating hearing protector, that are imposed by the flanking bone-conduction pathways, vary from about 40 - 60 dB across frequency. This means that even if a hearing protector could block all of the sound entering the earcanal, that sound attenuated by 40 to 60 dB would still get though to the cochlea, and like the sound transmitted via the air-conduction pathway, this energy can cause hearing loss. However, in all but the most extreme environments, this will be sufficient protection. For all but the most susceptible ears and all but the most extreme amounts of gunfire, noise reduction that equals the attenuation imposed by the bone-conduction limits should be quite sufficient. The much larger issue is making sure that the shooter is properly wearing the single or double hearing protection devices to get the maximum protection they can provide.

For additional information on the bone-conduction limits see EARLog 5 and 13 which can be found at www.e-a-r.com/hearingconservation/earlog_main.cfm

For a detailed discussion of the limits to attenuation see the article of that name at www.e-a-r.com/hearingconservation/journal_main.cfm
 
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I have significant noise-induced loss and tinnitus but have yet to double up. I probably should, however my Sordins do a great job of softening the remaining noises that I can hear. Invest in a really great pair of ear pro and keep being cautious, you’ll definitely appreciate it. I’m going to keep saving the pennies that the VA gives me for it and buy a nice pair of custom plugs one day.

I like to shoot my braked 308 from the standing tripod position so my fellow shooters can put their ear pro to the test.
 
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Hi,

SO what is the question here? I did not hear it.

You should take a decibel meter with you on your daily program to see just how much noise pollution you are accustomed to.

Most people always seem to focus on the "outside" of daily life program when it comes to noise but never even register the fact that their daily life program causes just as much affect on their hearing loss.

Sincerely,
Theis
 
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Longshot231 said:
I hate muzzle brakes.
Click to expand...
Then you'd hate this I have on my hunting rifle 5.56 I learned to first shoot precision with.

1593205688084.png


It's obnoxious AF but it's fun. I don't ever shoot it with someone next to me. But you might as well be shooting .22lr as far as recoil is concerned.
 
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WHAT? I use plugs and muffs. Damn near a tampon ad. Be extra safe, plug your muff!
 
I was having a great day at my covered 600 yd range the other week shooting a suppressed 224 Valkyrie when a guy rolled up with one of these... Ugh, seems miserable...
e9a04fc09037caa69fef18dd23b1c693.jpg
 
I've been using gel cups on my muffs simply because they seal around the stems of shooting glasses= quieter.
And they are extremely comfortable long term.
 
The only issue with doubling up ear protection is, it still only offers the protection of the highest dB rating of either or. It doesn’t double the protection factor. If wearing 35bd rated muffs and 40 dB plugs your only getting 35db of protection factor.
 
Last edited:
Snipe260 said:
Wouldn’t a condom on your cochlea protect you?
Click to expand...

I was thinking more along the lines of a full faced helmet that sound proofs most of your skull. If you think about it the noise is going through your bones from your head to your hearing cells right?

You would think by padding around your skull it should theoretically reduce the vibration of the skull bones, even if you couldn't get complete coverage of your entire skull it should help.

;)
 
KyShooter74 said:
The only issue with doubling up ear protection is, it still only offers the protection of the highest dB rating of either or. It doesn’t double the protection factor. If wearing 35bd rated muffs and 40 dB plugs your only getting 35db of protection not 75.
Click to expand...
That's not actually true. It doesn't directly add up, but the total noise reduction will be higher than just wearing one.

www.safetyandhealthmagazine.com

Double hearing protection

What is double hearing protection, and when is it needed?
www.safetyandhealthmagazine.com
.
 
LostInJersey said:
That's not actually true. It doesn't directly add up, but the total noise reduction will be higher than just wearing one.

www.safetyandhealthmagazine.com

Double hearing protection

What is double hearing protection, and when is it needed?
www.safetyandhealthmagazine.com
.
Click to expand...
No it won’t actually the dB reading is the sounds vibration level. They do not have a stacking effect, I’ve had many safety meetings and classes on this very subject. I just threw out some numbers but the difference between dB 35 and 40 would be 5 bd. But they both combined still only offer the lower dB protection factor of 35 bd.
 
Last edited:
KyShooter74 said:
No it won’t actually the dB reading is the sounds vibration level. They do not have a stacking effect, I’ve had many safety meetings and classes on this very subject. I just threw out some numbers but the difference between dB 35 and 40 would be 5 bd. But they both combined still only offer the lower dB protection factor of 35 bd.
Click to expand...

I'm curious if you have any sources for this.

All the classes and safety meetings I've been a part of on this subject suggest using +5db attenuation on the higher rated device.
 
Long Range said:
I take noise induced hearing damage more seriously than most people and in the past when I would go out and shoot it was in the desert by myself.

I am in a different state and there is no desert shooting for me, I will have to go to a range.

At the range what I noticed is that not only will you be hearing your shots, but the many other people around you shots.

Of course I will be doubling up on both ear plugs and ear muffs but the issue I'm worried about is the bone induced hearing damage. I read where some people say that using a muzzle brake gave him bone induced damage even though they were using hearing protection.

My question to you guys who stay at the range for hours, are you not worried about the many people shooting around you, constantly bombarding you with gun shots and many of them using loud muzzle brakes.

What I found from my research is that hearing protection only reduces the noise so much as you will get bone induced hearing damage. Studies show that in certain areas of the world, certain tribes were studied who had very little exposure to loud noises and these people showed that they maintained most of their hearing into old age. Old age hearing loss is not inevitable. This means that most of the people who have hearing loss when they are older is because of the environmental noises they were exposed to. I just don't want to be one of those old guys who can't hear anything like my father, so I am very strict with this.
Click to expand...

What kind of a dumb question is this?

We like to shoot. 99% of us have to shoot on a range with other people. There's NO other option for hearing protection besides earplugs and or ear muffs.

We stay at the range for as long as it takes to do what we want to do, be that 15 min or 5 hours.

What's your alternative?
 
KyShooter74 said:
No it won’t actually the dB reading is the sounds vibration level. They do not have a stacking effect, I’ve had many safety meetings and classes on this very subject. I just threw out some numbers but the difference between dB 35 and 40 would be 5 bd. But they both combined still only offer the lower dB protection factor of 35 bd.
Click to expand...
I would also like to see some data to support this assertion. All of my past experience and reading on this while working on safety standards for companies say contrary to this. I especially cannot buy that doubling up actually reduces effectiveness. Without supporting research and data for this opinion I can only conclude that it’s BS.
 
Okay, so a quick search brings up where you got the 5db, but you are interpreting it incorrectly.

0DC467F2-293E-4744-A8F1-26525676521B.jpeg

As you can see by simply reading the above, doubling up reduces the exposure by 5db, not the effectiveness of the protection as you are stating. So in your hypothetical example, if you combined protection of 35db reduction and 40db reduction, you would essentially get 45db reduction, just like the article that @LostInJersey posted above indicates.

Your 5db reduction was correct, your math however, not so much.

The additional 5db reduction is not as little as it may first seem, since decibels are not linear and are logarithmic. See this chart below:

445F1C02-B16D-432F-87A4-A9E5DAC23B79.png
 
Loosing your hearing is no joke, you kind of become a recluse by your own choosing. After asking "what" so many times, you tend to just ignore those types of people who will not speak up. My wife wears hearing aids, so she thinks she is talking loud when she talks, she is not. I am 62 and age alone says my hearing is deteriorating, combined with 30 yrs of heavy equipment operation, shooting, loud music, my hearing is not bad, or so I think.
5 yrs ago i got into a crowd that needed suppressors to shoot, I joined them, I swear, I lost more hearing in 2.5 yrs shooting with, and around guys shooting suppressed w/o ear pro. It was stupid not wearing protection. I have 6 cans sitting idle, if I need muffs, may as well run brakes.
I do have a friend that doubles up plugs with muffs, he says it helps. I do think it is more of a fitting issue of his muffs though, Howard Lieght Impacts, which suck by the way, low DB rating.
Whatever you do, protect your hearing, not picking up everyday sounds just plain sucks.
 
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KyShooter74 said:
No it won’t actually the dB reading is the sounds vibration level. They do not have a stacking effect, I’ve had many safety meetings and classes on this very subject. I just threw out some numbers but the difference between dB 35 and 40 would be 5 bd. But they both combined still only offer the lower dB protection factor of 35 bd.
Click to expand...
That's now how it works. That's not how any of it works.

Earplug & Noise Reduction Ratings Explained

Cooper Safety Supply is committed to providing ANSI & OSHA Certified ear plugs, ear muffs & noise reduction products for industrial & commercial applications.
www.coopersafety.com www.coopersafety.com
How does NRR change decibels of exposure?

When hearing protection is worn, your level of exposure to noise is based on the NRR rating of the protection device being used. Keep in mind, however, that while the NRR is measured in decibels, the hearing protector being used does not reduce the surrounding decibel level by the exact number of decibels associated with that protector’s NRR. For example, if you are at a rock concert where the level of noise exposure is 100 dB and you are wearing earplugs with an NRR 33dB, your level of exposure would not be reduced to 67 dB. Instead, to determine the actual amount of decibel deduction applied (when decibels are measured dBA which is the most common), you take the NRR number (in dB), subtract seven, and then divide by two. Given the previous example, your noise reduction equation would look like the following: (33-7)/2 = 13. This means that if you are at a rock concert with a level of noise exposure at 100 dB and you are wearing a hearing protector with an NRR 33 dB, your new level of noise exposure is 87 dB. If you are wearing a product with an NRR of 27 it would deduct 10 decibels (27-7/2=10).
Click to expand...

How does wearing dual hearing protectors change NRR?

When hearing protectors are worn in combination (i.e. earplugs AND earmuffs), rather than adding the two NRR numbers together, you simply add five more decibels of protection to the device with the higher NRR. For example, using 3M™ E-A-R™ Classic Earplugs (NRR 29) with 3M™ Peltor™ H7 Deluxe Earmuffs (NRR 27) would provide a Noise Reduction Rating of approximately 34 decibels.
Click to expand...

The Noise Reduction Rating and the actual noise reduction are not the same thing.
 
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KyShooter74 said:
No it won’t actually the dB reading is the sounds vibration level. They do not have a stacking effect, I’ve had many safety meetings and classes on this very subject. I just threw out some numbers but the difference between dB 35 and 40 would be 5 bd. But they both combined still only offer the lower dB protection factor of 35 bd.
Click to expand...
Have you tried stacking ear pro at the range? It helps.
 
Play Dough is the answer stuff your entire ear so its sealed off sound gets trapped in the dough. The price of hearing aids has come down dramatically so wasting money on hearing protection is not economical anymore.
 
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candyx said:
Play Dough is the answer stuff your entire ear so its sealed off sound gets trapped in the dough. The price of hearing aids has come down dramatically so wasting money on hearing protection is not economical anymore.
Click to expand...

1595429842917.png


1595429959225.png
 
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KyShooter74 said:
No it won’t actually the dB reading is the sounds vibration level. They do not have a stacking effect, I’ve had many safety meetings and classes on this very subject. I just threw out some numbers but the difference between dB 35 and 40 would be 5 bd. But they both combined still only offer the lower dB protection factor of 35 bd.
Click to expand...
So,if I wear only muffs and tell myself I am wearing muffs and plugs, then I get no sound attenuation, because i‘m wearing plugs with no sound attenuation? I hope you don’t actually believe what you typed...
 
One thing I noticed is that if you wear safety glasses and just ear muffs, the safety glasses will break the seal and the ear muffs will not be as effective. That is why doubling up is important. Usually you never have perfect seal with earplugs in the ear or ear muffs, but doubling up will really help if you have one of the two that fails.
 
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I forget the name of the company but they have gel inserts I threw on my Walker's, and they morph around my glasses perfectly. I do still double up anyways, between shooting and construction I'll be lucky to hear anything when I'm older.
 
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