6.5x47 Lapua with 140 Berger Hybrids = Elk Poison. Place your shot. Nothing bigger needed. Compared to the destruction of say, a 300 WSM or a .340 Weatherby...the 6.5x47 will deliver the needed punch with much less carnage to the meat.
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What’s the most important variable to the formula for a successful large/heavy game hunt?
Equipment? Training and experience stalking game? Familiarity with the area? Mindset? Physical fitness?
I don’t believe one can make up for the rest, and there should be a balance of them all.
What rifle/ammo/optic combo can you quickly and effectively put into action in a field setting, make consistent hits within (and through) the vital zone at a given range, and assess your shot placement correctly?
If you’re just wanting to focus on the rifle part of the formula, can you actually get enough trigger time with a large magnum in varying conditions and positions to be consistent and deadly with it at the ranges you have set for yourself?
Will your optic/mount combo hold up to the firing schedule? This is one of the most overlooked causes for bad shots, and is exacerbated when stepping up to .30 bores or magnums.
Are you open to changing your mind even if you already have what you think is enough experience in this area?
Also, if you are short in stature with low body mass, do you understand that shooting a magnum probably isn’t helping you at all?
If you are large in stature, you can sometimes get away with more recoil depending on upper body mass, but you also have to carry all of that into the mountains, as well as during recovery.
Equipment? Training and experience stalking game? Familiarity with the area? Mindset? Physical fitness?
I don’t believe one can make up for the rest, and there should be a balance of them all.
What rifle/ammo/optic combo can you quickly and effectively put into action in a field setting, make consistent hits within (and through) the vital zone at a given range, and assess your shot placement correctly?
If you’re just wanting to focus on the rifle part of the formula, can you actually get enough trigger time with a large magnum in varying conditions and positions to be consistent and deadly with it at the ranges you have set for yourself?
Will your optic/mount combo hold up to the firing schedule? This is one of the most overlooked causes for bad shots, and is exacerbated when stepping up to .30 bores or magnums.
Are you open to changing your mind even if you already have what you think is enough experience in this area?
Also, if you are short in stature with low body mass, do you understand that shooting a magnum probably isn’t helping you at all?
If you are large in stature, you can sometimes get away with more recoil depending on upper body mass, but you also have to carry all of that into the mountains, as well as during recovery.
300WSM all day long. It’s my primary big game cartridge that has taken multiple Elk, Red Stag, and numerous other large animals, usually dropping them in their tracks, or worst case after a very short run less than 50 yards.
Is there any good brass available for 7mm WSM?
I have seen tons of elk killed with a 243 Win. If you are hunting CO from out of state, you need to show up with something more geared toward hunting dangerous game in Africa. Its one of the ways we identify you. Lost in the woods, probably from the east coast, 338-378 weatherby to shoot Elk, defintnley from the east coast. Says yoouz guyz, yep. 
I have seen tons of elk killed with a 243 Win. If you are hunting CO from out of state, you need to show up with something more geared toward hunting dangerous game in Africa. Its one of the ways we identify you. Lost in the woods, probably from the east coast, 338-378 weatherby to shoot Elk, defintnley from the east coast. Says yoouz guyz, yep.
So if you were building or buying a lightweight gun to go elk hunting because the only hunting rifle you own is a 22-250, you're telling me that your choosing a 243 or a 308? Btw, I love how you interpret my post to needing a 338 lol
Bertram or Winchester. I have been using Winchester for years with no problems at all.
Don’t forget the snake bootsI have seen tons of elk killed with a 243 Win. If you are hunting CO from out of state, you need to show up with something more geared toward hunting dangerous game in Africa. Its one of the ways we identify you. Lost in the woods, probably from the east coast, 338-378 weatherby to shoot Elk, defintnley from the east coast. Says yoouz guyz, yep.
I don't know what you posted and what I posted has nothing to do with it.
I wouldn't build a gun just to go elk hunting, but if I did, No I wouldn't be afraid you use any of the normal short action deer hunting cartridges. If all I had was a 22-250, I wouldn't want my other rifle to be some magnum caliber. Yes I have rifles in magnum calibers, no i have never taken one elk hunting. Yes I think they will kill elk.
Correction, you have seen a lot of Elk suffer a slow death so some jerkoff can feel good about himself killing a large animal with a small game cartridge. If you can’t hunt them responsibly then stick with small game. 30-06 minimum. Maybe think of the animal that is being harvested.I have seen tons of elk killed with a 243 Win. If you are hunting CO from out of state, you need to show up with something more geared toward hunting dangerous game in Africa. Its one of the ways we identify you. Lost in the woods, probably from the east coast, 338-378 weatherby to shoot Elk, defintnley from the east coast. Says yoouz guyz, yep.
Nope mostly DRT for the 243. I have seen some wounded animals from people who thought they could make up for their lack of skill with more gun though. I saw a guy shoot a spike buck 7 times with a 300 Weatherby before he finally broke a leg and nocked it over. He wasn't even a yoouzz guyz, he lived here. Well actually he moved here from da da dahhhhh, Philly.
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DRT with a 243 on a Elk? I doubt that. Energy and placement kill not just a well placed shot. Sad that you have Zero respect for the animal.
Great post. I don't know whether it is to prove a point, or whether they want to give objectively bad advice.
And remember there is a whole class of rounds not being talked about. Those are the big 06s, like 338-06 and 35 Whelen. Most elk is not taken outside a couple hundred yards, and necked up 30-06 are both very shootable and great elk killers.
I should have actually have been out looking for elk this morning, but I was feeling lazy, so here I sit at my desk. 280 is what I am using because my medium bolt face short action is wearing a 26" heavy contour 6.5 Creedmoor barrel, instead of the #5 contour 6mm Creedmoor I have for it to hunt with. I like 280, probably not great in a short action. Take out your bolt stop and you can make it work.
Is it still lazy if you get up at 3:45AM to sit on your ass?
280 is what I am using because my medium bolt face short action is wearing a 26" heavy contour 6.5 Creedmoor barrel, instead of the #5 contour 6mm Creedmoor I have for it to hunt with. I like 280, probably not great in a short action. Take out your bolt stop and you can make it work. Is it still lazy if you get up at 3:45AM to sit on your ass?
I was born, raised, and still live in elk country, between Utah and Colorado. Killed my first bull in 1997 and many many bulls and cows since. Our local game warden where I lived in Utah did population control in the farm lands every winter with a .243win.
I have killed with a 6.5 Creedmoor, .270wsm, .308, .300wsm, .300win mag, .300prc, and .338 Lapua.
I bring this up because even with some very spectacular kills with the 6.5 and .308 I have never felt over gunned with the .300 mags or even the .338. Fact is elk don’t always give the prefect presentation for suitable small caliber shot placement, I feel there is room for a larger margin of error with a big boomer. This is not to say the big boomers will compensate for overall shitty shooting.
I have killed with a 6.5 Creedmoor, .270wsm, .308, .300wsm, .300win mag, .300prc, and .338 Lapua.
I bring this up because even with some very spectacular kills with the 6.5 and .308 I have never felt over gunned with the .300 mags or even the .338. Fact is elk don’t always give the prefect presentation for suitable small caliber shot placement, I feel there is room for a larger margin of error with a big boomer. This is not to say the big boomers will compensate for overall shitty shooting.
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6br
For elk (or anything) inside 400 yards with a short action, a 308 at 20” can push the Barnes TacTX at 3200 fps. It’s only 120 gr but solid, fast, accurate, and has a decent BC for a 120 gr .30 cal bullet (.358) and it makes a big hole. Some people who havent used say it won’t work in a 308 because Barnes markets it as a 300 AAC blackout bullet and it will explode or something, which is bullshit.
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A friend of mine shot a 5 point bull a few years ago at the very end of the MT season.I have seen tons of elk killed with a 243 Win. If you are hunting CO from out of state, you need to show up with something more geared toward hunting dangerous game in Africa. Its one of the ways we identify you. Lost in the woods, probably from the east coast, 338-378 weatherby to shoot Elk, defintnley from the east coast. Says yoouz guyz, yep.
It had a festering wound in it's scapula and hind quarter, turned out there were two 6mm bullets in him.
Both should have put him down with a heavier mag, especially the one that didn't make it through the shoulder.
A 243 will absolutely kill an elk at moderate range with a perfect shot, however shots aren't always perfect and there's literally zero margin of error with 6mm and 6.5s
Thanks to all for the update bout
I just wanted to know big cal or small fast
For the one or two times I’ll get to hunt elk looking to use a 300 pRc as the hunting trips are double the rifle build
I just wanted to know big cal or small fast
For the one or two times I’ll get to hunt elk looking to use a 300 pRc as the hunting trips are double the rifle build
This perfect shot, zero margin of error idea is retarded, you either hit the vitals or you didn't, if you didn't you are going to have a bad day. I don't care what you are shooting. I have seen 100g nosler partitions make full pass throughs on elk. I find it hard to believe one couldn't make it though the scapula, maybe something like the 56 v-max or 70 Sierra HP, but there wouldn't have been enough of those bullets left to determine they were 6mm. I also doubt that hind quarter shot would have anchored it with a magnum. Also a 140g 6.5mm bullet is going to penetrate better than 180g .308 bullet. The idea that a 338 or 30 cal bullet gives you more margin of error on an elk than a 6.5mm or 6mm bullet is not based in reality.
Does your action have a Magnum bolt face?
No mag bolt face
So looking at new action
So looking at new action
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So, a .243 in the heart or head of an elk isn’t good enough?
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The flip side to that argument is that most people are “over gunned” for the animal they are hunting.
Of course except for the damage of meat and such, being over gunned isn’t bad.
But for every person that wants to prove they can kill with the smallest round, there’s another person claiming you can’t kill X animal with anything smaller than Y cartridge.
As far as bullets, generally speaking “hunting bullets” are about as big a scam as diamonds being “rare.” So much so, many “high end” guide services and such are using Berger competition bullets as they prioritize shot placement over terminal expansion claims and theories.
It’s a sliding scale. The more skilled the hunter and/or shooter, the smaller cartridge required. The more skilled hunter will get closer. The more skilled shooter will make better shot placement.
The less those two skills…..the larger cartridge and such required. What’s ethical to your skill level is different to ethical to another.
And each hunter’s ethical range changes from day to day. An 800yd shot with little to no wind without much mirage or sun is ethical one day and tomorrow it’s not when the wind is switching or lighting is bad.
Both sides always want to put ethical inside a box…..and it’s far from that.
This sliding scale may have some theoretical validity, but from what I see, and as I have said, I literally live in the middle of elk country. Not in a town near elk, not in a city where planes come in for people to drive to go hunt elk, but in the middle of fucking nowhere where people actually go to hunt their elk dreams. Yes, a lot of people are overgunned, but most of those would be overgunned with a 223, but good elk hunters, the guys who drag big bulls out of rough spots year after year, are generally doing it with bigger caliber rifles. Could they do it with a 243? Probably, but I see more 35 Whelens on these guys than I do Creedmoors. I also see a lot more partitions than I do Bergers, internet cowboys, even famous ones who run other hunting websites, aside.
Again, that isn't to say you are wrong, but, for example with the Bergers, most good hunters stop using them after they fail once. And they do, even if they are, on average, OK hunting bullets. I have personally seen at least a dozen of them do so. So they use things like Partitions that don't tend to fail, rather than trying to drill out the tips of their Bergers or buying a license to use David Tubbs super tipper.
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Seeing “more” doesn’t make it somehow “right.”
Up until very recently, and in some areas you still see people neck sizing only, running core lokt thinking their .270 is better than anything as long as “they do their part” etc etc etc.
I’m not saying you’re wrong as far as what works better.
But “seeing more” is just an anecdotal observation that without supporting facts doesn’t really say much.
Sure, but I can tell you that among the outfitters I know, who are numerous as I can, as a famous Alaska governor didn't say, see the Bob Marshall Wilderness from my back porch, I don't know any of them who regularly supply ammunition, much less Bergers, to high end clients. I do know one guy who is very online and about an hour away, who does and writes about it a lot, but he is a tiny minority, and really just a ranch manager. That is not a comment on what works, just on what happens.
And in the end, since none of this can be tested under anything approximating controllable conditions, all we have are anecdotes, whether they are about snake booted easterners or lumberjacks rasslin grizzlies down by hand. If we had access to better data, I would think opinions would not diverge as much as they do.
I can say that, for me, the vast, vast majority of elk I have shot has been within 75 yards, so it probably doesn't matter what I have shot them with, but they have also been shot from less than great positions, so I tend to not try to put one through their head.
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We went to the local range in Colroado day before 3rd Season in CO to check out the local "talent". What I saw was quite frightening . Most showed up with rifles they hadn't shot since god knows when. Fire about twenty rounds and once they finally hit the pie plate from 100 yds the gun went back into the case and off to the local watering hole. Not really any difference than back east, just prettier scenery. I think the skill level of the indigenous populations was about the same as your average eastern deer hunter from most of the folks i ran into, which was to say piss poor. Ran into a guy the first day that we were there, he sure sang the praies that a 243 was all you needed to kill an elk. Saw him about three days later, he had bagged a mule deer but it had more holes in than a block of swiss cheese. Most likely shot from the back porch of his trailer.I have seen tons of elk killed with a 243 Win. If you are hunting CO from out of state, you need to show up with something more geared toward hunting dangerous game in Africa. Its one of the ways we identify you. Lost in the woods, probably from the east coast, 338-378 weatherby to shoot Elk, defintnley from the east coast. Says yoouz guyz, yep.
Your head shot comment tells the whole story.
The fact that you think a headshot is a bad thing tells the whole story.
The Finns, Swedes, Norwegians etc have been killing elk, caribou and moose for well over a century with the puny little 6.5 Swede.
I think a 123 or 140 6.5 bullet is the ideal elk bullet.
What i am getting from this thread is that bow hunters and muzzle loader hunter are unethical, and those pictures of elk killed with 6mm bullets, they are not dead, they are just in so much pain they can't move. I am literally crying inside my heart right now.
What i am getting from this thread is that bow hunters and muzzle loader hunter are unethical, and those pictures of elk killed with 6mm bullets, they are not dead, they are just in so much pain they can't move. I am literally crying inside my heart right now.
There is also the issue that many people are not physically strong, and often quite fat, and that can keep them from being able to handle an appropriate elk cartridge like a 300 WSM. It's not fair in today's participation society for them to be kept from hunting, so we do have to allow for the special 6mm elk hunters.
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
Don't get your Sitcka gear undies in a wad. I wasn't trying to throw mud in your snake boots. We give you east coasters a ride or lead you to the road when you're lost. We are all friends here.
What you see at the range is everywhere. If nothing else its proof that all this tiny margin of error bullshit is bunk. I see dudes every year that can't shoot for shit fill tags and make clean kills. Can you hit a 12" circle from x distance. I bet the average deer is shot at less than 50y.
Sounds like the dude didnt hit the deer well. Or are you saying a 243 isn't enough for deer either? You know can't penetrate to the vitals and create a good wound channel.
I think a 123 or 140 6.5 bullet is the ideal elk bullet.
What i am getting from this thread is that bow hunters and muzzle loader hunter are unethical, and those pictures of elk killed with 6mm bullets, they are not dead, they are just in so much pain they can't move. I am literally crying inside my heart right now.
I chronoed some of my father's 30-06 hunting loads and they were 2750fps with a 150gr partition. I know he has killed elk, mule dear and caribou with them. My 180gr hunting load with 4350 is 2650fps and it killed an elk for me.
To me a 300wsm would be the way to go but it's definitely overkill.
Then there was one of my employees who killed a buffalo with a 60lb hunting bow. A fucking buffalo.
The only good reason I can think of to hunt Elk with a .243 is if it is the only rifle you have.
Having nothing but a .243 is also a good reason to buy another rifle.
Having nothing but a .243 is also a good reason to buy another rifle.
The Scandinavian game (moose hunting) survey covering Norway, Sweden, and Finland had interesting results.
.30 bores had the highest average travel distances from the shot. (Animals walked/ran farther from where they were hit.)
6.5mm and 7mm had much lower travel distances from the shot by a statistically-significant number.
.45 bores had the very lowest travel distances, but were one of the least-used bore diameters of all.
50% of the 14,000 samples were .30 bores, mostly .300 Win Mag, .30-06 Springfield, and .308 Win.
.45 bores were mostly .458 Win Mag and .45-70.
6.5mm was mostly 6.5x55 Mauser.
7mm was mostly 7x57 Mauser and 7x64 Brenneke.
Up even until recently, they kill about 40,000 moose in Norway, 100,000 in Sweden, and 60,000 in Finland every year. They’re like rats up there. Bulls weight from 840-1870lb, so they are much larger than Rocky Mountain Elk.
Shot distances are a lot longer out here though (Rocky Mountain and Uintahs), so that’s important to think about when comparing the 2 regions. Most tags are for cows here to keep the much smaller bull population older, which helps with a more healthy overall herd.
For many years in the US Mountain West region, .300 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag, .30-06 Springfield, .270 WIn., most of the Weatherbys, and .25-06 Rem have been the most popular elk hunting cartridges up until 6.5mm finally caught on over the last 10 years. We had some .264 Win Mag and 6.5 Rem Mag back in the day that were very niche cartridges, but some of the most capable that never caught-on with much market support.
Every cartridge mentioned will effectively kill elk within appropriate conditions.
If there is any equipment campaign we should be pushing hard, it is proper rifle set-up when it comes to bases, rings, and optics.
Even among wealthy shooters, I’ve seen some horrendous base/ring set-ups with mediocre-to-high end glass, and no formal training at mid to extended range shooting.
The number of people who proudly tell me about how they try to walk rounds in on elk at extended ranges is growing. With a one-day class, a competent long-range rifle instructor could totally change their ethical engagement distances and help them achieve solid results.
There are a lot of people attempting 400-800yd shots having never shot at those ranges before, with sketchy mounts/rings/optics and questionable 100yd zeros. In today’s age, there is no reason for that to be happening.
When I was growing up, the only way we had to confirm dope was to shoot on paper at various distances and see, using old post and wire reticles. We now live in an optics and ballistics data buffet that was unimaginable even 20 years ago.
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I've taken 4 bulls with archery myself, since We're on that topic archery hunting is leading to a huge number of wounded and lost elk in my area.
I've done it myself, hitting a little high or clipping the scapula because a leg was positioned back covering the vitals.
We find dead bulls after archery season every year, it's really soured me on archery so I went back to rifle last season.
You're either ignorant or just biased beyond belief.. I suspect a little of both.
I know a heavy 30 cal will anchor a bull if shot in the hind quarter because I've done it, a friend made a shitty shot on a bull with a 243 (I don't hunt with that clown anymore) and I drilled him in the femor before he made the timber.
That bull dropped instantly, the 180 partition from my 300 WM shattered the bone and penetrated into the liver.
I don't think anyone should upsize their caliber in the belief that it's a substitute for skill, I've certainly seen the guys who shoot a few rounds from a bench once a year and call it good.
I have no problem with guys taking reasonable short range shots on elk with small caliber rounds, but denying that faster heavier bullets of equal construction don't wreck more havoc is like saying cow farts cause global warming
Ya well just like hunting with a rifle or a bow the majority of hunters out there spend a small fraction of the time they should practicing. The entire debate in this thread is honestly because of that majority. If most hunters were first off patient and second actually practiced throughout the year then just about anything would humainly kill elk. I shoot my bow at least 300 days a year granted it’s typically only 8 arrows a day but it’s almost every day. Rifle I shoot religiously and compete so plenty of practice there also. This is the problem with most hunters is they sit on there ass all year and then have no patience and rush a shot. Sad but so true. The ones that don’t are the ones who feel comfortable with a head shot or using a bow. I’m not arguing with you though that a lot of animals get wounded and die terrible deaths but it’s not the equipment or the size of the caliber it’s the majority of lazy ass hunters who don’t put in the work in the off season.
Always the same outcome.
I agree with the sliding scale comment. And as far as I'm concerned, if you are asking you probably shouldn't be using the minimum. It can be done, but it also could result in a wounded animal that runs off and dies never to be recovered. If you willing to not shoot and let a elk go then by all means go for it. I took a shot this year on my elk that I would have passed on if I was shooting my 6.5cm.
In average the 300wsm is a great elk cartridge. Of course there are exceptions based on a variety of reasons.
I agree with the sliding scale comment. And as far as I'm concerned, if you are asking you probably shouldn't be using the minimum. It can be done, but it also could result in a wounded animal that runs off and dies never to be recovered. If you willing to not shoot and let a elk go then by all means go for it. I took a shot this year on my elk that I would have passed on if I was shooting my 6.5cm.
In average the 300wsm is a great elk cartridge. Of course there are exceptions based on a variety of reasons.
