We have whole family quail hunt dinners after hunts. Have perfected the braised recipe
and no one wants to miss one of them dinners- Thread starter Mag 300
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and no one wants to miss one of them dinners
And this is a bull elk hit at 400 yards with a 6.5 SAUM and 139 scenar. You can see the exit, he was quartering slightly away and I double lunged him. Went down within 30 yards. PS I traveled halfway across the country to hunt.
Nice Haul!!! Last time I went out I did not miss a single one, including all doubles, with my 28ga Beretta. A first I will remember for ever. I shot 20 something, the other two shooters rounded it up to about 40. Great if really cold morning. Worked for the dogs. The cold temps meant they never got winded...
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Just made my point - thru and thru
. Great shooting - right on the money! Nice rifle - Specs? Last edited:
Thanks!Just made my point - thru and thru
GAP Extreme Hunter, Talley lightweight lows, S&B PMII 10x42, TBAC Ultra 7 6.5.
We go in late Oct and early Feb and Feb is better for just that…Oct is still very warm and the dogs get gassed fast and need to be changed out often. If very warm, we’ll run just one pointer at a time to try to preserve them.
Ok, quail hijack is over. Lol
7 saum or 300 wsm
A 6.5 PRC will tap both lungs. Quick flyer. Use a high-end, pointy bullet.
300 Sherman Short Mag with a 200 gr Berger Hybrid fits perfectly in an Accurate mag with the bullet boat tail seated just above the neck-shoulder junction.
This year my son shot a blacktail at 750 yards right behind the shoulder; dropped in his tracks. Head started flopping, and he anchored him with one thru the neck. Devastating exit wounds.
This year my son shot a blacktail at 750 yards right behind the shoulder; dropped in his tracks. Head started flopping, and he anchored him with one thru the neck. Devastating exit wounds.
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Thanks! Had to be GAP! I will be honest. Maybe when I was younger, with your equipment and obvious skill. But even then I'm not sure I could have made that shot . You nailed it. My hat's off to you. Great shot!!!
Talked with an Examiner this week that killed his elk in October with a 6.5 PRC, and was very happy with the performance.
Seems interesting that the popular choices for moose in Sweden and Norway include the .308, .30-06, and ........wait for it..............the 6.5x55
The 148 grain Norma bullet seems popular, also.
A few years back I had George Gardner build a 6.5mm-300WSM for me on a Surgeon short magnum action. I have not used it for elk yet, but have no reason to think it would not be suitable just because it is not a larger diameter.
Seems interesting that the popular choices for moose in Sweden and Norway include the .308, .30-06, and ........wait for it..............the 6.5x55
The 148 grain Norma bullet seems popular, also.
A few years back I had George Gardner build a 6.5mm-300WSM for me on a Surgeon short magnum action. I have not used it for elk yet, but have no reason to think it would not be suitable just because it is not a larger diameter.
This is the 300 Sherman Short Mag sitting in its Manners EH-4; I also have a matching EH-1 DBM Mini Chassis it spends time in as well if Im just shooting steel. Lone Peak Razor Ti action, 22" Proof Carbon barrel, topped off with a titanium 5-port muzzle brake. Runs the 200gr Berger Hybrid at 2950 fps with 62.5grs of RL16 @ sea level without pressure and is slowly speeding up. Weighs 7.8 lbs fully loaded; with the muzzle brake the recoil is almost non-existent. It's the most compact, lightest, hardest hitting, least recoiling in a short action I've ever hunted with. Accuracy is very exciting with this caliber. Every powder/primer combo I ladder tested with (RL16, Hornady Superformance, Hybrid 100V and N560) produced no more than 2.5" of vertical @ 1000 yards.
For reference: 338 Warthog (338 Norma Mag 40° Improved) with 300gr Berger OTM next to 300 Sherman Short Mag with 200gr Berger Hybrid.
For reference: 338 Warthog (338 Norma Mag 40° Improved) with 300gr Berger OTM next to 300 Sherman Short Mag with 200gr Berger Hybrid.
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So
So is the 200 Hybrid what you are hunting elk with also? Curious as the 180s are lights out in my 7 saum and used it on a MT 6pt bull in Nov... Always wondering if there is something better.
Yes sir. After seating bullets, I'll run a tiny drill bit down the hollow point to clear out any obstructions; if you don't and there's anything down in there, the bullet will pencil through the animal. The nice thing about the target bullets is they have a thicker jacket than the hunters. I've had Berger hunting bullets blow up on heavy bone shoulders. With the targets, I'll put it right in the shoulder without worry.
Tough to beat the 180s though. I shoot them thru a 7mm-300WSM at 3000fps. But that's with a 28" barrel on a long action.
I'm ordering a 22" Proof Carbon in a 7 Sherman Max for this rifle to shoot the 195s. This rifle started life at LRI. Chad originally machined this action and fitted it with a PT&G 3-B Bainey Box (3.110" coal) and throated my 6.5 SAUM for running the Berger 156 EOL. I bought the SAC Modular Barrel vise kit to switch barrels out.
It's a pretty cool long range pack rifle setup, I couldn't be happier with it.
I'm ordering a 22" Proof Carbon in a 7 Sherman Max for this rifle to shoot the 195s. This rifle started life at LRI. Chad originally machined this action and fitted it with a PT&G 3-B Bainey Box (3.110" coal) and throated my 6.5 SAUM for running the Berger 156 EOL. I bought the SAC Modular Barrel vise kit to switch barrels out.
It's a pretty cool long range pack rifle setup, I couldn't be happier with it.
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My 340" elk died at the hand of a .308. and a 150gr SST Superperformace round
From a Savage!!
With a 3-9 vx2 no less!!!
A 6.5 up that you can shoot really really well. Be it the man bun, 260 master race, or up to a .308, '06, or anthing else bigger and more badder.
Be really good at shooting it and a good load.
Punch the lungs.
Dies just fine.
From a Savage!!
With a 3-9 vx2 no less!!!
A 6.5 up that you can shoot really really well. Be it the man bun, 260 master race, or up to a .308, '06, or anthing else bigger and more badder.
Be really good at shooting it and a good load.
Punch the lungs.
Dies just fine.
Just as important is the bullets I believe. Elk are tough they can soak up some good hits but there not armor plated like some say. I've killed many elk with 6.5-06 ack 140 set back in the day but I honestly feel 7mm is very good that's what im using now but a 30 cal is great. I made the switch to copper bullets. Pva has some great ones along with hammers and badlands. Pick your cal grab one of those and they will hammer an elk.
Thanks, George and his crew have built some hammers for me.
7mm-08
250 yards, 346 yards, and 409 yards.
It‘s more about where you hit them, anyway.
P
250 yards, 346 yards, and 409 yards.
It‘s more about where you hit them, anyway.
P
Yeah I had never drilled the meplat on the 180s but had heard of and seen guys do it. I never had a problem with them before. Till this bull in Nov. Glad the first shot he was quartering away and it penciled though and broke his back side front leg. Stayed on 3 legs for a couple more shots before tipping over. Penciled through on 2nd shot and third hit a rib going in and shredded back of both lungs never exited.
175 yds about 15deg downhill. Very good performance with the 180s on everything before that but will either drill meplat or shoot something else now.
What size drill bit are you using?
If I loose it logic says get a .308
You should note that if you are going with a guide/outfitter, they are not likely to be thrilled if you show up with a 223AI with target bullets. You could instruct them to check Snipers Hide to find out what is really good elk medicine, but with the amount it costs for such an adventure, you might want to check with them first. A lot of guides around here require 30 cal and up for an elk hunt.
6.5 PRC
7 SAUM
300 WSM
Run the numbers and take your pick. Strengths and weaknesses to each. If you're using factory ammo, I'd pick two or 3 loadings for each and compare those. If reloading, pick a few bullets in each caliber that meet your needs and run the numbers.
I went with 6.5 PRC. No regrets other than a 260ai probably having better component availability right now.
120 GMX at 3,250 fps made quick work of my bull at 225 yards. Did he drop like I turned off a light switch? No. He took 3 streps and then keeled over backwards. But, I also didn't blow out his shoulder and wast a ton of meat. I'm also willing to pass on shots, and did so on this very bull 4 days earlier because I wasn't happy with the presentation. A 300 might help more on a bad shot, but I'd prefer something with less recoil so I can practice enough to be confident in my ability.
7 SAUM
300 WSM
Run the numbers and take your pick. Strengths and weaknesses to each. If you're using factory ammo, I'd pick two or 3 loadings for each and compare those. If reloading, pick a few bullets in each caliber that meet your needs and run the numbers.
I went with 6.5 PRC. No regrets other than a 260ai probably having better component availability right now.
120 GMX at 3,250 fps made quick work of my bull at 225 yards. Did he drop like I turned off a light switch? No. He took 3 streps and then keeled over backwards. But, I also didn't blow out his shoulder and wast a ton of meat. I'm also willing to pass on shots, and did so on this very bull 4 days earlier because I wasn't happy with the presentation. A 300 might help more on a bad shot, but I'd prefer something with less recoil so I can practice enough to be confident in my ability.
This is good advice. My 6.5 SAUM has incredibly soft recoil, suppressed or with the muzzle brake; it's a pleasure to shoot.
I forgot to mention earlier: another good reason for using the Berger target over the hunter is they don't explode like the Berger hunting bullets do. More often than not, we find the bullet and it typically retains 80+ percent of its weight
I shoot 2 different 6.5 prc’s… one for target fun and one for hunting, dropped a heavy 5x6 this year using a 153.5 Berger hybrid target. Didn’t pass through the other side but in my opinion you lose energy with a pass through, ya it helps with the blood trail but why not dump all of the energy into the animal.
With that being said there is nothing better than shot placement so I would pick a rifle you are very comfortable shooting, I use to hunt with a 7rm and dropped down to the prc. With the prc I’m more accurate and more comfortable behind the rifle. A 6.5 will have no problem taking down most everything with a well placed shot.
The one thing with the prc is ammo and reloading component availability, right now ammo is a little rough along with brass for reloading.
With that being said there is nothing better than shot placement so I would pick a rifle you are very comfortable shooting, I use to hunt with a 7rm and dropped down to the prc. With the prc I’m more accurate and more comfortable behind the rifle. A 6.5 will have no problem taking down most everything with a well placed shot.
The one thing with the prc is ammo and reloading component availability, right now ammo is a little rough along with brass for reloading.
Your point about energy loss is correct for a lot of hunting scenarios, say dangerous African game, but not for shooting lungs.
If you go thru and thru both lungs, each lung perforated twice (4 times), and especially twice to outside air pressure, the animal cannot take one more single breath. The outside wounds become sucking wounds, in other words, the lungs can't inflate any more. There is a LOT of information on this, mostly on humans, believe it or not.
It’s due to the negative pleural pressure vs the intrapulmonary pressure that keeps the lungs inflated. Intrapleural pressure remains negative relatively to the intrapulmonary pressure so our lungs don’t collapse during breathing. Which is why if one is perforated you have a collapse, because suddenly the intrapleural pressure skyrockets above the intrapulmonary pressure forcing the lung to collapse. There is also volume of the chest cavity that is taken up by the pneumothorax as well.
But yeah double lung if you can guarantee to hit it, is a great shot to make.
Excellent explanation. The layman's explanation is that the pressure inside the lung cavity is always less than atmospheric pressure. If the pleural cavity and the lungs are punctured and therefore exposed to ambient pressure the whole system stops working. Hope I said all that correctly!I
Which brings an interesting question. I know from reading texts on the subject that needle punctures are enough to cause this effect. Sure, the bigger the opening the better. That said, why would very hard, non deforming small caliber projectiles not cause the same effect?
Thanks so much for the medical POV!
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How about a 300wsm on a defiance intermediate length action. Plenty of room to seat the VLDs out and maximize that case capacity. Mine here is 8lbs as it sits
The lungs also bleed a bunch… double bonus. No O2 coming in, plenty going out.
Can’t speak to Elk, but with humans you can see a degradation in performance over time as air comes into the chest cavity. Having a lung collapse over time isn’t really the goal for hunting - if you don’t get the bleeding/O2 dep, that animal might go a looooong way before it succumbs. I’ve seen plenty of folks shooting tiny old GA deer with everything from pointy sticks to small caliber center fire and need to call dogs to try and track because they pencilled the lungs…
I have friends and family that shoot deer on agriculture permits in southern Alabama. They are not allowed to do anything with the deer they are required to just leave them lay or drag to edge of the field. They purposely shoot them with 5.56 55gr fmj. They want to pencil the lungs so they run hundreds of yards and aren’t dying in or around there fields.
Im kinda interested about this now… my “target” bullet came apart like they always do and sent shrapnel into both lungs and 2 nicks in the heart among other things…
Would a bunch of little holes be more effective than 2 big holes in each lung? I mean dead is dead and I’m sure the size of the wound cavity is different from caliber to caliber and bullet to bullet.
Just thinking out loud I guess…
I’m not sure honestly. You would think but the difference between us an animals in sheer will to survive always astonishes me. How many times other than taking out the CNS have you seen animals do incredible things despite being shot well?
What's the length of your short mags? Do they fit in a short action magnum AICS?
I once found a lung after 3 chest shots on a deer, about 300 yards from the deer.
I haven't had an elk run after a 115 partition or a 143 eld-x hit them.
I think the other very important variable is how spooked they are. Suppressed and they don't know you're there? They usually walk around in a calm circle and lay down. Super loudener on your super Magnum and they were already onto you and nervous and they're running no matter what.
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7 SAUM.
I was asking myself this question a little over a year ago. My main hunting rifle was a light 300WM, and I'd dropped one elk and one muley with it. But, being a tinkerer, I was thinking about shorter, lighter, and little loss of performance. Ultimately I went 300WSM, and I'm really pleased thus far. It came out at 7.9 pounds with scope, suppressor, and a mag in the well, plus being about 6" shorter than the WM. We've only harvested a pronghorn with it so far, but I still have a cow elk tag left this season. I was able to get 162 grain solids up to 3170 out of 22 inches of barrel, so I feel that I didn't lose all that much. I had a similar rifle built in 260Rem, and it was also great, I just felt it was slightly lacking in the power category.
Ya and they feel the same way. For most of our lives growing up we would donate the meat and it would all get used to feed the hungry. I’d say at least ten maybe even fifteen years ago they changed the law cause some libtard decided the meat was not fda controlled and inspected. It then became the leave them lay law and you weren’t allowed to do anything with the meat. I don’t know exactly how the laws are read and I think some states may be different but not positive. I moved from the south years ago so not sure if that law is still exactly the same. They have so many deer down there it’s unbelievable. When the cotton first starts to sprout the deer will walk straight down the planted rows and bite off the tops one after another. Doesn’t take to many to destroy a massive amount of crops in no time. They use a lot of other tactics to try and keep the deer out of the fields also.
Something to be said for the the .284" 180 grain Hornady's .796 BC in a 7-08, I'm told.
I would think the muzzle velocity would be kinda low. Great b.c. but what the velocity at 500 yards?
P
The base-to-ogive with the Berger 200 gr Hybrid is 2.220". I'm not sure if they'll fit in AICS mags at that length, but they fit in the Accurate mags perfectly.
For the Berger 200gr I will use any bit size between 0.031" - 0.0375".
I’d go with 6.5PRC because if there is any in stock, you can buy factory ammo. SAUM anything will require handloads. I know most people don’t have problems with HL’s. But the flexibility of Factory ammo is always favorable for me.
And I’ve watched a 6.5cm fold an elk at 406yrds. So anything more is clearly better.
Prime offers box ammo for the 6.5 Saum. 40.00 a box. I found it in stock at several locations.
It's clear that you and a few others are making it a personal mission to show us all how wrong we are about using 7mm or 30 mags to kill elk.
I see it all over on these forums, guys killing shit with the smallest caliber posible to prove a point.
I live in elk country as well, my wife and I kill a bull or two every year and I've learned some stuff along the way.
I have an ultralight 6.5 saum that I've killed 6 bulls with, most shots were inside 300 yards and one was beyond 800.
I can tell you without a doubt a 6.5 does not kill like a heavy 7 or 30.
I almost lost my bull at long range with a perfect lung shot, and put multiple shots in the boiler room of other bulls that still required a chase.
I went back to a 30 nosler with 220s for long range, and mostly use the 6.5 for close timber work.
I'm in the process of replacing the 6.5 with a 7 wsm, there's just no comparison at the end of the day..
More bigger is more better for elk
