Rifle Scopes SHOT 2020

[THEIS]

It looks like Blaser and Minox are not going to be at SHOT in January. That's a shame, but I guess I'll try to catch them elsewhere. There will be doing Safari Club and NRA shows.

ILya

Hi,

I think we are at a shift in the industry operating procedures and the non BATFE regulated product manufacturers will take this shift easier and faster than the BATFE regulated product manufacturers; but I see them following the shift as fast as possible also.

Shift being: Be as close to consumer direct as you can!!

But that is an entire different thread and should be the main topic of the Industry Dinner at Shot Show.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[E. Bryant]

Hi,

I think we are at a shift in the industry operating procedures and the non BATFE regulated product manufacturers will take this shift easier and faster than the BATFE regulated product manufacturers; but I see them following the shift as fast as possible also.

Shift being: Be as close to consumer direct as you can!!

A quick peek at the bicycle industry might be informative. You've got a small number of brands that dominate the market and hold control over the retail outlets, and a larger number of up-and-comers who are indeed working on eliminating the middle men.

The same is likely true in a number of other hobby markets.

It should be an interesting future.

 

[Glassaholic]

It looks like Blaser and Minox are not going to be at SHOT in January. That's a shame, but I guess I'll try to catch them elsewhere. There will be doing Safari Club and NRA shows.

ILya

That is interesting, especially with Blaser USA seeming to have made an impact here. I know that Minox is going to introduce a new reticle for the ZP5 3-15 at IWA in Germany come next March, I'm assuming Blaser will have a big presence their as well. Still hoping Blaser and Minox will have a love child in the form of an Infinity style 4-20x58 and/or 2.8-20x50 scope with ZP5 turrets and a mil hash reticle... I know, unlikely, but I can still hope, heck I could probably live with the 8 mil turret on the Infinity if they'd just offer a better reticle with .5/.2 mrad on the horizontal for wind holds.

 

[CSTactical]

Dan and Mike will be at the Steel Core/CS Tactical booth, I will be stuck in the office - R

 

[WirgmanUSMC]

I’ll be there with Guardian Long Range, roaming around locking down 2020 sponsors or at the McMillian booth.

 

[olive drab]

One of the supervisors bumped me from my slot promised to me a year ago after the gov shutdown. Have fun.

 

[hitman]

Anything new coming out in the lpvo land, like 1-6 or 1-8's etc..? It seems like there is still room for improvements there but I have not heard anything new coming out yet.

 

[koshkin]

Anything new coming out in the lpvo land, like 1-6 or 1-8's etc..? It seems like there is still room for improvements there but I have not heard anything new coming out yet.

I expect to see some new LPVOs.

Ilya

 

[Powdermonkey4]

I expect to see some new LPVOs.

Ilya

High end to compete with kahles, Blaser, NF?

 

[koshkin]

High end to compete with kahles, Blaser, NF?

Quite likely.

Honestly, I think high end SFP LPVOs are already very good. I expect to see interesting developments with FFP and DFP shipped.

Ilya

 

[Powdermonkey4]

Quite likely.

Honestly, I think high wispy SFP LPVOs are stressed very good. I expect to see interesting developments with FFP and DFP shipped.

Ilya

Damn, just to think I bought another kahles 1-6. Haha no matter as such is life

Thanks ILya ?

 

[Glassaholic]

Damn, just to think I bought another kahles 1-6. Haha no matter as such is life

Thanks ILya ?

The Kahles 1-6 is arguably one of the best out there, I don't think you'll regret your purchase regardless of what comes out. After watching ILya's video on the Blaser 1-7x28 I am very intrigued with the way they incorporated their red dot

 

[Powdermonkey4]

The Kahles 1-6 is arguably one of the best out there, I don't think you'll regret your purchase regardless of what comes out. After watching ILya's video on the Blaser 1-7x28 I am very intrigued with the way they incorporated their red dot

I did consider the Blaser but I wanted the horseshoe for in close on pigs and the graduations in the reticle first distance. Maybe if Blaser threw something like that together ?

 

[koshkin]

I did consider the Blaser but I wanted the horseshoe for in close on pigs and the graduations in the reticle first distance. Maybe if Blaser threw something like that together ?

I have suggested more reticles to them, but since Blaser has the same parent company as Minox, I am not sure they want to compete against the tactically oriented ZP8.

If I were them, I would definitely add a couple of mil hashmarks. As I said in my review, I think that the Blaser 1-7x28 is the best LPVO I have seen to date. If I could get it with a slightly more sophisticated reticle, there would be one on my rifle right now.

As is, my one sorta fancy LPVO is March Shorty 1-8x24, but it is not as good on 1x as the Blaser. It is exceedingly good optically and very compact.

All my other LPVOs are less expensive: I use Burris XTRII 1-8x24, RT-6 1-6x24, HiLux CMR-AK 1-4x24. There are probably a couple of others sitting in the safe that I can't recall right now.

Of the tactically oriented LPVOs, I really like Minox ZP8 with MR10+ reticle, but there is the new S&B 1-8x24 with MDR-T6 reticle to look at.
I have a very strong suspicion that there will be a couple of models at SHOT that will be added to my list.

ILya

 

[Glassaholic]

If I were them, I would definitely add a couple of mil hashmarks. As I said in my review, I think that the Blaser 1-7x28 is the best LPVO I have seen to date. If I could get it with a slightly more sophisticated reticle, there would be one on my rifle right now.

I agree, even if they put windage hash marks it'd be better for both the 1-7 and the 4-20x58

 

[KitchenMartin]

Can you get back to us on what ever vortex is working on? We are waiting for a 3-18 amg or something else high end.

I think I wouldn't be the only one who would love this kinda scope! A 3 to 18 high end ''do it all'' lightweight FFP scope!

The Leupold VX-6HD 3-18x50 is almost perfect... but no FFP.
The ZCO 420 is almost there, but still too heavy and too pricy for me.
The K318I, too heavy, too poor FOV, too pricy for me.
The NX8 2.5-20, promising but too much compromise on IQ because of the 8x zoom ratio. + it's finiky on eye box and DOF.
The XTR3 3.3-18, maybe, but it still didn't travel to Canada yet... and not sure about IQ on the Max power, more reviews to come I guess.
The Razor gen2 3-18, twice my weight limit! But hell I loved it!
The PST gen2 3-15x44, Probably the best bang for your buck! But I'd take a little more magnification... that's only me!
The March 3-24x52, Not in my price range... but looks like a really good cross-over scope!

Damn!!! I probably look like a scope snob! LOL
Let's say I know what I want.

One thing for sure is I'm gonna wait for that ''perfect scope'' to come to market... I did too many mistakes in the past buying bargains that I ended up reselling for 60% the price I paid for. Probably not the only one I guess.

Anyway, Let's dream a bit here:

A leupold VX-6HD 3-18x50 in FFP + mills: I'm in!
A AMG 3-18x50: Awe some!
Or maybe a AMG 5-20x50... maintaining their 4x zoom ratio... With a wide FOV, the 5x minimum zoom would probably be OK for off-hand shooting and the 20x zoom would be good for the 1000y targets!

Happy new year to all the good folks here that share their knowledge and opinion!!!

Martin

 

[koshkin]

I think I wouldn't be the only one who would love this kinda scope! A 3 to 18 high end ''do it all'' lightweight FFP scope!

The Leupold VX-6HD 3-18x50 is almost perfect... but no FFP.
The ZCO 420 is almost there, but still too heavy and too pricy for me.
The K318I, too heavy, too poor FOV, too pricy for me.
The NX8 2.5-20, promising but too much compromise on IQ because of the 8x zoom ratio. + it's finiky on eye box and DOF.
The XTR3 3.3-18, maybe, but it still didn't travel to Canada yet... and not sure about IQ on the Max power, more reviews to come I guess.
The Razor gen2 3-18, twice my weight limit! But hell I loved it!
The PST gen2 3-15x44, Probably the best bang for your buck! But I'd take a little more magnification... that's only me!
The March 3-24x52, Not in my price range... but looks like a really good cross-over scope!

Damn!!! I probably look like a scope snob! LOL
Let's say I know what I want.

One thing for sure is I'm gonna wait for that ''perfect scope'' to come to market... I did too many mistakes in the past buying bargains that I ended up reselling for 60% the price I paid for. Probably not the only one I guess.

Anyway, Let's dream a bit here:

A leupold VX-6HD 3-18x50 in FFP + mills: I'm in!
A AMG 3-18x50: Awe some!
Or maybe a AMG 5-20x50... maintaining their 4x zoom ratio... With a wide FOV, the 5x minimum zoom would probably be OK for off-hand shooting and the 20x zoom would be good for the 1000y targets!

Happy new year to all the good folks here that share their knowledge and opinion!!!

Martin

Wait a little for SHOT.

Ilya

 

[Secant]

Wait a little for SHOT.

Ilya

Go on...... haha

 

[Moose]

Shot show got me bitting at the bit.Vudoo gun works will be chambering in 17HMR and would love to see a 3x18 do it all hunting scope.

 

[JakeM]

Or if they keep the mag range the same, 4-16x50 ffp mil 30mm good weight and about the same price or a little cheaper as the 6-24.

 

[Denys]

I think I wouldn't be the only one who would love this kinda scope! A 3 to 18 high end ''do it all'' lightweight FFP scope!

The Leupold VX-6HD 3-18x50 is almost perfect... but no FFP.
The ZCO 420 is almost there, but still too heavy and too pricy for me.
The K318I, too heavy, too poor FOV, too pricy for me.
The NX8 2.5-20, promising but too much compromise on IQ because of the 8x zoom ratio. + it's finiky on eye box and DOF.
The XTR3 3.3-18, maybe, but it still didn't travel to Canada yet... and not sure about IQ on the Max power, more reviews to come I guess.
The Razor gen2 3-18, twice my weight limit! But hell I loved it!
The PST gen2 3-15x44, Probably the best bang for your buck! But I'd take a little more magnification... that's only me!
The March 3-24x52, Not in my price range... but looks like a really good cross-over scope!

Damn!!! I probably look like a scope snob! LOL
Let's say I know what I want.

One thing for sure is I'm gonna wait for that ''perfect scope'' to come to market... I did too many mistakes in the past buying bargains that I ended up reselling for 60% the price I paid for. Probably not the only one I guess.

Anyway, Let's dream a bit here:

A leupold VX-6HD 3-18x50 in FFP + mills: I'm in!
A AMG 3-18x50: Awe some!
Or maybe a AMG 5-20x50... maintaining their 4x zoom ratio... With a wide FOV, the 5x minimum zoom would probably be OK for off-hand shooting and the 20x zoom would be good for the 1000y targets!

Happy new year to all the good folks here that share their knowledge and opinion!!!

Martin

You and I have a different understanding of the words "scope snob." To me that refers to someone who only considers the most expensive scopes. When you dismiss the March 3-24X52 saying that it's not in your price range (ie, far too expensive ), you paint yourself as the antithesis of a "scope snob."

March is introducing some new scopes at SHOT and yes, they are CLEARLY aimed at "scope snobs" using your parlance but I prefer to consider myself a discerning riflescope enthusiast with a predilection for high end models.

I'll be in the March booth at SHOT. I'm that much of the enthusiast described earlier.

 

[Threadcutter308]

For those of you that are going to be doing video interviews and posting them, Please, please, please do them with lapel/lavalier mics. Most of the videos that I have seen that have used the internal (video) camera microphones pick up so much ambient/background noise that the "interviewees" are un-intelligible.

rant over..........

 

[KitchenMartin]

You and I have a different understanding of the words "scope snob." To me that refers to someone who only considers the most expensive scopes. When you dismiss the March 3-24X52 saying that it's not in your price range (ie, far too expensive ), you paint yourself as the antithesis of a "scope snob."

March is introducing some new scopes at SHOT and yes, they are CLEARLY aimed at "scope snobs" using your parlance but I prefer to consider myself a discerning riflescope enthusiast with a predilection for high end models.

I'll be in the March booth at SHOT. I'm that much of the enthusiast described earlier.

We're always someone else's snob… My friend who likes his blurry FX1000 6-24 thinks I'm a snob when I talk about selling my Viper HST to buy something 2 or 3 times the HST value… Things are relative!

But frankly, I prefer how you describe our-selves: We are riflescope enthusiasts!

 

[carbonbased]

All I want is a 1-100x44, one inch tube, 2000 MOA travel, shiny gold (gots ta match my gold Call of Duty M4), thermal, night-vision, MIL/MOA switchable on the fly, able to see through hot chick’s clothes (but not through fat ones or dudes), auto-aiming, auto-focus, video camera inside, loading reticles via SD card, and prints money. Weight = negative 45lbs, to lighten my 50lbs PRS/LRH/ELR/NRL22 switch caliber R700 Anschutz straight pull RIG.

BRAH!

Is that too damn much to ask? Jeez.

 

[Bourbon_and_Bullets]

Tips from last year at Shot:

1) Free Bet Blackjack at the Luxor. Paid for 3 new guns in cash. Tables were hot.

2) Chuck Liddel is an enormous man.

3) Don’t eat any special “gummy bears” and go to the Blue Man Group. It was terrifying.

 

[Denys]

All I want is a 1-100x44, one inch tube, 2000 MOA travel, shiny gold (gots ta match my gold Call of Duty M4), thermal, night-vision, MIL/MOA switchable on the fly, able to see through hot chick’s clothes (but not through fat ones or dudes), auto-aiming, auto-focus, video camera inside, loading reticles via SD card, and prints money. Weight = negative 45lbs, to lighten my 50lbs PRS/LRH/ELR/NRL22 switch caliber R700 Anschutz straight pull RIG.

BRAH!

Is that too damn much to ask? Jeez.

Ok, the only issue I see is that battery life is going to suck, but thankfully you avoided mentioning that as a requirement.

 

[carbonbased]

Ok, the only issue I see is that battery life is going to suck, but thankfully you avoided mentioning that as a requirement.

I forgot it NEEDS to run on gamma rays.

 

[Denys]

I forgot it NEEDS to run on gamma rays.

Crap. High energy ionizing radiation as a fuel source is going to be a marketing and logistical nightmare.

I'll stick with unpowered optical scopes.

 

[koshkin]

I just received the prototype of March's 4.5-28x52 with the new tree reticle.

I think they will have another one of these at SHOT. It is not the final model and all, but I think it might do quite well for March. New eyepiece of some sort: I can comfortably handhold it on 28x and not loose sight picture.

ILya

 

[Glassaholic]

I just received the prototype of March's 4.5-28x52 with the new tree reticle.

I think they will have another one of these at SHOT. It is not the final model and all, but I think it might do quite well for March. New eyepiece of some sort: I can comfortably handhold it on 28x and not loose sight picture.

ILya

The fact that March is deviating from their usual 8x magnification for FFP scopes should say something. Last year March really made an effort to understand the US Market and wanted to create a scope specific to PRS/NRL style shooting, this scope is their answer to that. I am very excited to see this scope and see if they resolved the DOF/Parallax issues (of the 3-24x52) as well as improved the eyebox forgiveness and improved resolution/contrast with the High Master glass system. We already have some amazing 5-25 and 3-15 range scopes but not many scopes transcend those ranges, I believe only the Schmidt 3-27 and Hensoldt 3-26 do (and one could argue for the March 3-24), but with the wide angle eyepiece used in the 4.5-28, I'm hoping this scope may be comparable to many 4x scopes in FOV at the low end but with the added benefit of going up to 28x at the top. Being very short and light, this could even go toe to toe with some of the alpha ultra shorts, and having just reviewed several alpha class ultra shorts I am anxious to see this scope in its final form.

 

[koshkin]

 

[Denys]

That WA eyepiece looks great. You can easily tell the difference from a regular eyepiece. Sure looks like it makes it easier to get behind very quickly.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

OT but FINALLY!!!

Shot Show is expanding locations for 2021.....Taking over the Ceasars Forum for booths too!!!
Pedestrian bridge will connect them.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[koshkin]

Hi,

OT but FINALLY!!!

Shot Show is expanding locations for 2021.....Taking over the Ceasars Forum for booths too!!!
Pedestrian bridge will connect them.

Sincerely,
Theis

That will be a walk. So Sands and Caesars Forum?

ILya

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

I’m happy to announce the 2021 SHOT Show is expanding! We will be utilizing the brand new Caesars Forum right next door to the Sands Convention Center. There will be a pedestrian bridge built between the two buildings. Click here to see a rendering and brief video of the two adjacent buildings.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[BytorJr]

Cool, I'll have to talk to my FFL and see if I can go with him. I assume FFL's can still have guests, right?

 

[BigJimFish]

I just received the prototype of March's 4.5-28x52 with the new tree reticle.

I think they will have another one of these at SHOT. It is not the final model and all, but I think it might do quite well for March. New eyepiece of some sort: I can comfortably handhold it on 28x and not loose sight picture.

ILya

The 6x erector ratio gives me optimism. Often March is just too aggressive on the specs and ends up with optical performance that is noticeably compromised. A less aggressive ratio should help. Of course, it has a smaller size 52mm objective, which I like and I expect it is also on the lighter weight side.

Hi,

OT but FINALLY!!!

Shot Show is expanding locations for 2021.....Taking over the Ceasars Forum for booths too!!!
Pedestrian bridge will connect them.

Sincerely,
Theis

You said this and I was thinking.... Ceasers is not directly across from the Venetian and the walk is rather convoluted to get from one to the other. Then I saw this is actually a brand new building in the formally vacant lot next to the Sands behind the big wheel. That makes more sense. Traffic become a real bitch in the last year because of the construction on that building and the opening of the new hockey arena though. The bus from the show to the cheap seats down at Excalibur went from 10 min to.... We got off on the side of the road after an hour and just walked. Not sure where I will stay next time I go. They have created solid gridlock from what was pretty good flow. It might be worth trying the fleabag circus at the other end of the strip or an off strip joint.

 

[KWilson]

You can clearly see the extra 'beef' in the eyepiece. Could be some good times ahead for March. The next model up should be interesting too.

 

[koshkin]

The 6x erector ratio gives me optimism. Often March is just too aggressive on the specs and ends up with optical performance that is noticeably compromised. A less aggressive ratio should help. Of course, it has a smaller size 52mm objective, which I like and I expect it is also on the lighter weight side.

It is right around 30 ounces and has 25 degree apparent FOV. I will make some measurements, but it looks like its 4.5x FOV is wider than most scopes on 4x.

So far, I really like it. It is right around 13" in length, so it is a fairly compact scope with moderate weight and rather useful magnification ratio.

ILya

 

[W54/XM-388]

@lowlight
If you happen to get a chance at shot and can stop by booth 210 (Dawson Knives) they should have something there for you to pick from......
I'll PM you one of their phone numbers.

 

[Lowlight]

@lowlight
If you happen to get a chance at shot and can stop by booth 210 (Dawson Knives) they should have something there for you to pick from......
I'll PM you one of their phone numbers.

Cool thanks !

 

[SOAPdata]

I'll be visiting a lot more people, obviously, but I figured I'll throw out a few times and booths each day.

ILya

Can you stop by the KOWA booth please? 61525 popup.

Not to meet anyone, I just want someone to report back on what they have , since I cant go.

 

[koshkin]

Can you stop by the KOWA booth please? 61525 popup.

Not to meet anyone, I just want someone to report back on what they have , since I cant go.

Sure. They make an amazing little 55mm spotter.

Ilya

 

[Glassaholic]

Sure. They make an amazing little 55mm spotter.

Ilya

I’ve been eyeing that spotter for a long time

 

[etxccampbell]

I’ve been eyeing that spotter for a long time

I have carried that spotter in my backpack for 2 years and it is amazing , you can take great videos and pic’s using a phoneskope and your cell phone !

 

[SOAPdata]

Sure. They make an amazing little 55mm spotter.

Ilya

Thanks!
Personally I've been eyeing the 88

 

[Glassaholic]

I have carried that spotter in my backpack for 2 years and it is amazing , you can take great videos and pic’s using a phoneskope and your cell phone !

That's good to know, maybe we can talk about it in more detail sometime. I believe Kowa makes a phone adapter for their spotter, I've played with the SkopedVision PhoneSkope before and did not have a good experience with it - image was distorted and difficult to get centered, etc. so I sent it back.

 

[koshkin]

I am sorta spoiled by spotters with reticles, so any new spotter I buy will have that.

I wish Kowa would consider adding a reticle to the 55mm spotter, but I am afraid chances are slim.

ILya

 

[etxccampbell]

That's good to know, maybe we can talk about it in more detail sometime. I believe Kowa makes a phone adapter for their spotter, I've played with the SkopedVision PhoneSkope before and did not have a good experience with it - image was distorted and difficult to get centered, etc. so I sent it back.

No problem just let me know. I also passed your information along to CMO and you should be hearing from Master Guns Garcia .

 

[Glassaholic]

I am sorta spoiled by spotters with reticles, so any new spotter I buy will have that.

I wish Kowa would consider adding a reticle to the 55mm spotter, but I am afraid chances are slim.

ILya

The Minox spotter appealed to me for this very reason, was tempted to grab one during the 50% off but I think the Kowa 55 is a little better than the Minox unit...

Was hoping they might offer a reticle as well, but like you mention slim chance unfortunately.