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Rifle Scopes Should I buy a Tangent Theta?

You should get one, just don't buy it from Orkan. Give CS Tactical a call, they treat their customers and others with respect.
Yeah, if you're a snowflake... definitely don't come buy one from me. I fucking hate snowflakes.

I don't believe everyone should be respected. Most people don't deserve respect, actually. I do find it laughable that you claim I don't treat my customers with respect. Got any proof of that claim?

Turns out there are a LOT of people in the shooting community that aren't snowflakes. They are quiet, and don't post much. They don't want to buy from lukewarm respectful places. They want the hard truth, no matter what.
 
Orkan,

I know where you are coming from, but not everyone likes your style and they are not your customers. I know delfuego a bit and he is most certainly not a snowflake, so how about we all tone it down a bit?

How did this formerly useful thread that started with talking about Tangent Theta scopes devolve into this?

ILya
 
Yeah, if you're a snowflake... definitely don't come buy one from me. I fucking hate snowflakes.

I don't believe everyone should be respected. Most people don't deserve respect, actually. I do find it laughable that you claim I don't treat my customers with respect. Got any proof of that claim?

Turns out there are a LOT of people in the shooting community that aren't snowflakes. They are quiet, and don't post much. They don't want to buy from lukewarm respectful places. They want the hard truth, no matter what.



Orkin, Are you insinuating that we are lukewarm?
 
I know where you are coming from, but not everyone likes your style and they are not your customers.
Who goes through life thinking everyone is going to like them? I certainly don't. More importantly, I need to find out quickly who isn't going to like me, so I don't waste time with them.

You see, I don't care if there are some people I offend, because SOMEONE will get offended no matter what. That's the reality of this world. The only way that won't happen is if you're silent and say/do nothing. So I have absolutely no motivation to placate those that I disagree with... and the most vocal dissenters I have are those who's only experience with me has been some post I wrote on the internet. People that have actually dealt with me in any capacity know those people are full of shit... so it works out just fine. :)
 
Who goes through life thinking everyone is going to like them? I certainly don't. More importantly, I need to find out quickly who isn't going to like me, so I don't waste time with them.

You see, I don't care if there are some people I offend, because SOMEONE will get offended no matter what. That's the reality of this world. The only way that won't happen is if you're silent and say/do nothing. So I have absolutely no motivation to placate those that I disagree with... and the most vocal dissenters I have are those who's only experience with me has been some post I wrote on the internet. People that have actually dealt with me in any capacity know those people are full of shit... so it works out just fine. :)

This sounds like a teenager giving life advice. The statement "The only way that won't happen is if you're silent and say/do nothing" is obviously false. There are plenty of people on the internet and in person that can give an opinion and have a rational discussion without offending or taking offence. Sometimes it seems like those people don't exist when you read a thread like this one, but that doesn't make is so.

Also, my experience with CSTactical has been very good. I felt they were very informative and professional.
 
Who goes through life thinking everyone is going to like them? I certainly don't. More importantly, I need to find out quickly who isn't going to like me, so I don't waste time with them.

You see, I don't care if there are some people I offend, because SOMEONE will get offended no matter what. That's the reality of this world. The only way that won't happen is if you're silent and say/do nothing. So I have absolutely no motivation to placate those that I disagree with... and the most vocal dissenters I have are those who's only experience with me has been some post I wrote on the internet. People that have actually dealt with me in any capacity know those people are full of shit... so it works out just fine. :)

I have to chime in just because I'm fascinated with this conversation. I honestly do not understand your way of thinking Orkan. I get it that you are a very opinionated person who tells it like it is (Which at times is a very respectable trait), however, you are also a business owner. I just don't understand how you stay in business (Unless you are a trust fund baby or a lottery winner who doesn't care if you make any money...) Pretty much you told everyone who doesn't completely agree with you to "suck it and go elsewhere." I have never seen a business model that tells you to do that. But maybe it works for you.

In the end, my post and opinion truly means nothing. So, go ahead and tear it apart.
 
Why do so many of these good questions and threads on optics eventually lead to useless discussion by and about this sales guy Orkan? Can we get him banned or something so these discussions stay on track and we, the audience, can actually learn about the current state of the high-end optics market? There are so many new products out there right now or soon that we really need sites like the Hide to have any chance of understanding these choices. And to have this guy throwing stick into the wheel when the discussion gets going is a real disservice at this time with so much innovation.

To the OP, I would hold off on purchasing anything new right now unless you really need it. Let all these new scopes and reticles come out to (1) learn what product might have the most value to you and (2) possibly pick up deals on 'older' products that get 'dated' by the novel stuff. On point (2), there are always deals to be had on the 'dated' stuff that vendors and used sellers have trouble moving.
 
Last off topic post from me here: I think there is value in civilized discourse and there is also value in occasionally going uncivilized. The key word here is "occasionally".

I run a company that has sales and marketing of electro-optical products as its primary purpose, so my appreciation for civility is not theoretical, at all. I have customers with whom I maintain exceedingly cordial relationship and customers who I can barely stand. I also have former customers who I will no longer to business with. However, I make it a point to be civil and polite with all of them, partly because I prefer it when people are civil and polite with me.

Mind you, being civil and polite does not mean being nice. I put emphasis on civil and polite.

I have had many dealings with Tangent Theta. The guy who runs it is a gentleman and runs his company in accordance with his view of how business is to be conducted. He is anything but a pushover, but he has always been polite and respectful even when we have disagreed. I value that.

Similarly, I have a rather cordial relationship with Vortex despite the fact that I have said all sorts of uncomplimentary things about some of their products. We stay civil even when we disagree.

Without some measure of civility, you can not even agree to disagree, much less have a fruitfull discussion.

ILya
 
Another option and I think a much better one is to buy a TT from EuroOpic as they stock them.
 
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The problem here is that it's all been said before. If you look back 3 years ago, you'll find thread after thread in which I talked about the superiority of the Tangent Theta scopes, feature by feature. I was called every name in the book, and very few were willing to listen. Everything I've said has been proven right, but the narrative on these forums has stayed the same.

We have all models in stock. We keep them in stock. We move a ton of them. No customers unhappy with the scopes.

I own 9 of them myself. Tens of thousands of rounds beneath them. No other scope out there can compare. I know because I've owned them. This is a fact presently. Perhaps it will change in the future, but right now it is a simple fact. People can argue all they want. At the end of the day, you either have the money and want to find out for yourself... or you don't. Call me, spend your $4500... or don't.

If it's too big a risk, don't call me.
If you can't afford it, don't call me.
If you need to be "sold" on the idea, don't call me.
If you want to "check prices and shop around," don't call me.
If you want to haggle over a couple hundred bucks on a very expensive luxury item, don't call me. This isn't rent, mortgage, or food. You aren't going to convince me that $200 one direction or the other matters at all when you're spending $4500 on something not essential to your life. If money is what is most important to you... I don't even want to speak to you. Money isn't what matters to me, and if people had any sense, it wouldn't matter to you either.

If you want to talk with the guy that has seen and documented the truth of these scopes from the very beginning and has enough experience with the rest of the products out there to tell you exactly, technically, where they stack up and why... give me a call. 605-554-1911

You call other places and ask about "X" scope and they'll say "oh that's very nice." If you ask about scope "Y" they'll say "oh that's very nice." Do they really care what you buy? Most places sell everything. Everything from total crap to the best. If they can sell it and make money, they consider it a win. Why else would the same places that sell Tangent Theta stock Barska or BSA?

Some places want to be able to provide everything to everyone.

At Primal Rights, we only provide the very best to the very best. No compromises. If you're that kind of guy, pick up the phone and call me. We'll get along great. I'll tell you anything you want to know. If I don't have the answer I'll send you to where it can best be found. Not a company nor a person in this country has as much experience with Tangent Theta as we do.

If you're offended by this post, then it has fulfilled its purpose and will keep you from wasting my time on the phone and make sure I'm available when someone intelligent calls.

Nik H, if you have about $4500 in your pocket, you can afford any scope I have in my inventory. Maybe $3200 is all it will take. It all depends on what rifle you're scoping and what its intended application is. If you want to know, just give me a call and we'll talk it all over. Maybe TT isn't right for you right now. Maybe it is. You'll find no one better suited to help you find out than I. If it's not the right scope, we'll discuss it and find out. I sell a ton of vortex, kahles, and S&B scopes for other dealers. Sometimes a TT just isn't the right scope for the application or rifle at hand. I can't help you if you don't call.
I think being just a little humble would go a long way orkan
 
Yeah, I put my money where my mouth is all the time. It's widely known and accepted that I will spend money and buy products to ACTUALLY KNOW what they are capable of, rather than just sit on the internet babbling bullshit about things I've never touched, unlike most others seem to be content with doing. Bought almost every FFP model they offered, ran them on lots of different rifles... yet at NO POINT have I added them to my "inventory." ... and I won't be, either. They were never added to our website. I've never "advertised" or posted anywhere suggesting people come buy those scopes from me, other than buying the eval models I purchased. I haven't made a single order other than my opening order. Yet I've probably sold a dozen athlon scopes for other dealers this year so far.

So do you have a point, or do you want to just keep failing at "gotcha?"

I'm not a fan of internet pile-ons, but since you asked and given your deportment on this thread the point is stunningly obvious - that being you completely and unequivocally contradicted yourself.

"At Primal Rights, we only provide the very best to the very best. No compromises."
"I'm going to hop on board with Athlon Optics. There just always seems to be a need for some mid to low end scopes."

I find your ability to celebrate your blindspots so breathtaking it is actually impressive. You're the kind of asshole I can't help but like. With that said your conduct on this thread is a near case study in how not to behave in business (and in life).
 
How is it a contradiction when I buy a bunch of scopes to eval and never stock them? It was for experience with them only. Are you incapable of digesting simple facts or are you just willfully ignorant?

We SELL the best but I buy all kinds of shit that we never sell. Can’t spell it any clearer than that. Yet as if this is some kind of democrat debate you think if you push the narrative it will somehow become reality?
 
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How is it a contradiction when I buy a bunch of scopes to eval and never stock them? It was for experience with them only. Are you incapable of digesting simple facts or are you just willfully ignorant?

You bought them with the intent on selling "mid to low end scopes." If only obviously - or did you mean only the very best "mid to low end scopes." That would be quite something....
 
I love mine, but I just found one that I like better! Have you looked into the Hensoldt ZF 3.5-26x56? I didn't think anything could top the TT 5-25P but the glass in this Hensoldt is amazing.View attachment 6881845
hi mate, how you campare TT vs Hensoldt; i was struggle to choose one from other but ordered a TT because i get a dealer in the state. But still wondering is this thing better glass than TT? this scope is like myth and no one shares any information about it. cheers
 
People have been saying the same BS about me here for over a decade, yet here I am, business flourishing. More loyal customers than ever. People like the truth. They don’t like being lied to, and you have been spreading untruth. Tisk tisk.

...anyway, it’s been fun but I’ll leave this thread to you animals to do what you’re known for and expected to do here.
 
People have been saying the same BS about me here for over a decade, yet here I am, business flourishing. More loyal customers than ever. People like the truth. They don’t like being lied to, and you have been spreading untruth. Tisk tisk.

...anyway, it’s been fun but I’ll leave this thread to you animals to do what you’re known for and expected to do here.
I will bet someone a shiny new penny that post 72 will not be the last post orkan makes in this thread......lol
 
People have been saying the same BS about me here for over a decade, yet here I am, business flourishing. More loyal customers than ever. People like the truth. They don’t like being lied to, and you have been spreading untruth. Tisk tisk.

...anyway, it’s been fun but I’ll leave this thread to you animals to do what you’re known for and expected to do here.

Thank God you are leaving. For a supposed business Man, you sure don't act like it.
 
To the OP, I've got a friend who I shoot with at matches and he has one. The scope is a tank and if you like the reticle it's about perfect. After he let me use it, I have to say it is the best scope I've seen. It was the 5-25M. Very nice, and if I could afford one I would spend the money. Turrets are excellent.
 
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So back to the discussion on Tangent Theta............. I have a question.

Is the line thickness of the Gen 2 XR reticle the same on the 5-25 and 3-15 P series scopes? Or is it thicker on the 3-15? I've looked at several charts, and some show a .04 mil line on the 3-15 and others show .025 mil. Does anyone know for sure what the line thickness is on the 3-15?
 
@dirthead1 sir, I can't comment on TT's Gen 2 XR reticles, but can comment on the older Premier Gen 2 XR reticles. The line thickness is the same on both the 3-15 and the 5-25. The reticle works MUCH better on the 5-25. You can certainly use it on the 3-15, but only well at 10x-15x. At 3x, the FOV is awesome, but the reticle is only an 'area fire' tool.

I don't know if TT changed this... I kind of doubt it, but that is a guess.
 
I am sorta on the record with how impressed I am with Tangent Theta scopes, so my recommendation will not surprise you: if you can afford it, go for it. I that other person who likes Gen 2 XR, so TT works great for me. I know a bunch of people who bought one and I have yet to have anyone come back to me and say they made a mistake. Some people prefer other reticles, but outside of that, I do not think I have ever heard any complaints (scratch that, there was one guy with a stiff magnification ring and either Covertnoob or HK Dave sent his back for something that I can't recall. It was all taken care of).

ILya

I was told the stiff mag ring was due to the tight seel to meet or exceed their waterproof rating. I was assured it had been adj by someone and they felt the resistance was acceptable. I was told I could send it back and they would gladly take a look, but I decided I would just get a throw lever instead. If I purchase another and it is vastly different I can always send it back then.
 
Hell of a price! Now the question is do I get one and sell my 5-20 ultra short?
 
I have bought many things from Orkan and will continue to do so. He is the only dealer I have found that actually uses the products he sells and has enough experience with other products to tell you the plus and minus of each. How many of your other dealers (CS tactial, Europtic, etc) actually have sales reps that have thousands of rounds down range with each scope in order to have enough knowledge to make a good recommendation? If they don't have this type of experience with many brands of high end scopes...then just what is their recommendation based on? It is a matter of fact that Orkan has more experience that ANY other dealer I have ever met. You guys must not like that matter of fact...and if you other dealers have such extensive first hand knowledge as well then enlighten us with your experience. I don't need a dealer that will make me feel all peachy inside with the decision I have made. I need a dealer who will help me make the decision...and will tell me when I am wrong or need something different. BTW-- I also have a S&B that was bought at the recommendation of Orkan. He doesn't sell them...but it was the best option for the build I was putting together.

It is very interesting that a question was asked a few posts ago about the 315P compared to 525P. Not a single dealer has definitively answered that question...yet I can have the answer in 10 seconds via a simple call to Orkan. As a matter of fact...I own both scopes and could easily give you the answer...but why would I when the vast majority of people here have treated Orkan as you have? I am offended by your actions towards him when he has taken care of me as a customer time and time again.

Now...Orkan posts facts that you all don't like...so what do you do? You don't post facts to prove he is wrong. You don't post your first hand experience to show why your opinion should matter. You turn and in hateful anger attack him for telling the truth. Like the truth or not...truth is truth. Like the way it is presented or not...truth is truth.

Somebody correct me if I am wrong...but don't the terms of use clearly state that personal attacks are against the rules. Yet for some reason the mods here could care less about personal attacks...against some people. They again and again turn their heads and ignore every time this happens.
 
As I said in my previous post, he knows what he is talking about and does it with authority. I am big enough to know when I am speaking to someone who knows facts versus regurgitating a data sheet.

I find it rather refreshing because I am much like that in my line of work as a general manager of a large engineering division in telecomm. I don't have time for BS. I have no regard for incompetence. I do it a little differently though. I just don't meet with clients I don't respect. I have the underlings do it but then again, I don't chase business; it comes to me.
 
dddoo7 very well said, before I purchsed my DT I had tons of questions about the platform and what scope would be best for my uses. I spoke with many of the dealers that have been mentioned on this thread and I never once felt like my questions were answered fully. Orkan took my calls over the last 2 year before I made my final choice of rifle and glass and never once pressured me to buy what he sold. I learned so much about other shooting disciplines like reloading practices, proper technique and rifle care as we talked through hours of great conversation.
Orkan is very opinionated and brash, but it’s my feeling that this forum would be lacking if he did not share his knowledge. He has pissed me off just like some of you but I have very thick skin and at the end of the day after I cooled off and started thinking rationally I realized he was right. He really cares about sharing with others the things that he has committed his life too, you just got to shrug off the rough exterior and pay attention to the details he is giving you.
Orkan purposely chooses the way he does business and I respect that in this world of greed and self preservation, it’s a refreshing change.
Plus he adds entertainment to these conversations.
Keep on posting Greg!
 
I have bought many things from Orkan and will continue to do so. He is the only dealer I have found that actually uses the products he sells and has enough experience with other products to tell you the plus and minus of each. How many of your other dealers (CS tactial, Europtic, etc) actually have sales reps that have thousands of rounds down range with each scope in order to have enough knowledge to make a good recommendation? If they don't have this type of experience with many brands of high end scopes...then just what is their recommendation based on? It is a matter of fact that Orkan has more experience that ANY other dealer I have ever met. You guys must not like that matter of fact...and if you other dealers have such extensive first hand knowledge as well then enlighten us with your experience. I don't need a dealer that will make me feel all peachy inside with the decision I have made. I need a dealer who will help me make the decision...and will tell me when I am wrong or need something different. BTW-- I also have a S&B that was bought at the recommendation of Orkan. He doesn't sell them...but it was the best option for the build I was putting together.

It is very interesting that a question was asked a few posts ago about the 315P compared to 525P. Not a single dealer has definitively answered that question...yet I can have the answer in 10 seconds via a simple call to Orkan. As a matter of fact...I own both scopes and could easily give you the answer...but why would I when the vast majority of people here have treated Orkan as you have? I am offended by your actions towards him when he has taken care of me as a customer time and time again.

Now...Orkan posts facts that you all don't like...so what do you do? You don't post facts to prove he is wrong. You don't post your first hand experience to show why your opinion should matter. You turn and in hateful anger attack him for telling the truth. Like the truth or not...truth is truth. Like the way it is presented or not...truth is truth.

Somebody correct me if I am wrong...but don't the terms of use clearly state that personal attacks are against the rules. Yet for some reason the mods here could care less about personal attacks...against some people. They again and again turn their heads and ignore every time this happens.

The guys at EuroOptic do! They are great to deal with and are shooters!
 
So, they are great to deal with and are shooters, or they have put thousands of rounds down range through almost every high end scope out there?

Who exactly at europtic has this level of experience? Everyone? I have no doubts that they are friendly...but I highly doubt they have the first hand experience that Orkan does. If they do, then are they truthful enough to tell the short falls of the lower end scopes they sell?
 
I would wager that all the commercial sellers here are top
Notch knowledgeable dealers, Orkan just happens to be the most opinionated. I’ve dealt with Mile High, Liberty Optics, Europtic, and Orkan. All are top notch in my experience.
 
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So, they are great to deal with and are shooters, or they have put thousands of rounds down range through almost every high end scope out there?

Who exactly at europtic has this level of experience? Everyone? I have no doubts that they are friendly...but I highly doubt they have the first hand experience that Orkan does. If they do, then are they truthful enough to tell the short falls of the lower end scopes they sell?

You can buy from whoever you choose. It's a free country. I swear by EuroOptic and they are the most knowledgable and honest company to deal with IMHO. And yes, they are truthful enough!
 
How many of your other dealers (CS tactial, Europtic, etc) actually have sales reps that have thousands of rounds down range with each scope in order to have enough knowledge to make a good recommendation? If they don't have this type of experience with many brands of high end scopes...then just what is their recommendation based on? It is a matter of fact that Orkan has more experience that ANY other dealer I have ever met.

I tend to not waste my time on items such things as this.

Dddoo7, I’m sure Orkan has a lot of great experience. You can look into me Mike Cecil, I have been shooting in the Long-Range game competitively for over 25years, I have been an instructor for almost just as long. For a few years I would T&E optics before they would hit the civilian market or go into production. I use more optics from a wide variety of manufactures in 1 year than most people use in their life time. Because I do have the ability to look through so many manufacturers products I get to see the bad, good and the GREAT. Not everyone can afford Tangent Theta for every rifle and not every rifle deserves one. Also most of our staff have long-range shooting experience, CSTACTICAL also has a traveling long-range shooting team. Because we have a shooting team I can also hand them optics or other gear and we will get back rock solid information. We also have a 3-Gun Team and a Tactical Training Group so we have a good handle on Red-Sights, Low-Powered Variable Optics, Night-Vision, Firearms, and gear.


https://www.youtube.com/user/CSTactical1/videos?view_as=subscriber
https://www.facebook.com/CSTactical/
https://www.instagram.com/cstactical/
 
I have a couple of S&B on two different rifles and I put a TT on a left hand rifle. I like the TT a LOT. Super clear glass, easy to use reticule without being too busy.
 
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Back on topic - A TT scope cannot be beat!
 
When I read this drivel it reminded me that 909 brainwashed people really did drink the Kool-Aid.