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Member Link Up SHWW Group

Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tribe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why? </div></div>
Because it softens the brass back to like new hardness, allowing a more uniform neck tension, & possibly longer brass life. Don't have any hard data on that yet. I do know that I have a lot of 7-8th fired brass from my old brl that wasn't performing up to par. Once I started to anneal the new stuff after the 3rd firing I quickly noticed a difference in neck tension. Once the brass is hardened it doesn't return to the same size any more when sizing. Some will be looser neck tension, & some will be stiff. It's a uniformity thing for consistent accuracy.
 
Re: SHWW Group

Thanks MG.



Bigs.... that's what I'm trying to figure out.... have you done it to any of your 7-8 fired stuff?

I'm curious if that would snap it back into shape....
 
Re: SHWW Group

No, I haven't.(I still have too much 3rd fired) But I'm positive it will get it working again. I started doing it every 3rd because I could feel the beginnings of the brass hardening after the 3rd firing. It just gets worse after that. I also had to change my collet in my neck sizer after the 4-5th firing of the old brass. It wouldn't size down enough any more, & I had to use a smaller collet to get the neck tension right again. Some of these would let the bullet slide in the brass by hand, & I could pull them out with my fingers. I'm going to try some 4th fired with the original collet again soon, & see if it's the right size again now.
 
Re: SHWW Group

Right on.... Let me know what you know when you know..... Will ya?
wink.gif
 
Re: SHWW Group

Sure. I'll let you know. But if I was you, & had a bunch of 7-8th fired brass, I'd just do it. I think you'll be shocked at what it will do for ya-all's reloading. Try it out on some old win brass to get the feel for it, & you'll be fine. Just don't get it too hot. Just to where you see a slight color change in the neck.(it will go from shiny to dull looking) With my win brass it's a count of 11-12 sec in the flame, & you're done.
Oh yeah. You still a maybe for Saturday?
 
Re: SHWW Group

Bigs have you noticed more consistency @ say 800+ yards since you started annealing, ie that unexplained flier(s) when everything felt/looked good has disappeared since you got on this regimen? I know there are the extremes of no annealing to every firing, and someplace in between may be right. I've looked at the fancy setups for annealing...just too much dough for this poor country boy. Did you start out using tempilac pen as a guage before you got a good feel for timing needed in the flame? Some of my cases for the 6x47 are getting ready for their eighth reload-still okay out to 1K, and haven't stretched it out further. Keep us informed..and I may have to get something set up to warm the case necks.
 
Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sunnyside Scott</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Daps,
What the hell are you buying? It looks like you are making room in the gunsafe. LOL.
Your .223 looks interesting, although I don't need the scope.
SScott </div></div>
Oh where to start:
Larue 18" 7.62 OBR with all the cool guy accesories
Leupold mark 4 spotter with horus h32 reticle
leupold mark 4 4.5-14X50mm FFP w/ M5 turrets W/ H27 reticle
larue 16" predetAR 16" for my SPR again with all the accesories
surefire 7.62K suppressor
surefire 5.56K suppressor
leupold mark 4 1.5-5 for the SPR
I think that's about it... for now
It's my spotter Mkollman74's fault I blame him. Well him and Chris Costa


 
Re: SHWW Group

Yes, I did see an immediate drop in those unexplained flyer's once I started annealing. They didn't go away completely, but they are less than before, especially with the older 7-8 fired cases I was using before. I think some of them are actually deformed 208 A Max's. Perhaps the tips are coming off, or something, I don't know. Just one of the reasons I'm making the switch to the 225's. I just know that the A Max's aren't as consistent as the HPBT's are. I liked the 210 VLD better for consistency, but @ near $50.00/box Berger can "bite me" I'm going to see if I can get a ballistic medium together to test the 225's out for hunting purposes, & if they will expand, & penetrate, the A Max's will be for sale fast.
 
Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bigwheels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sure. I'll let you know. But if I was you, & had a bunch of 7-8th fired brass, I'd just do it. I think you'll be shocked at what it will do for ya-all's reloading. Try it out on some old win brass to get the feel for it, & you'll be fine. Just don't get it too hot. Just to where you see a slight color change in the neck.(it will go from shiny to dull looking) With my win brass it's a count of 11-12 sec in the flame, & you're done.
Oh yeah. You still a maybe for Saturday?</div></div>

Already on that trail..... just wondering if it's going to be worth the hike.....
 
Re: SHWW Group

Annealing is mind-numbing, but it works. Talking to some of the more experienced reloaders at some benchrest matches, the key is consistency in your annealing (time you expose the brass to the flame) and getting the brass softened just past the body/shoulder junction - the time (under the flame) will vary with your brass, but is pretty easy to determine. Just run a piece under the flame and time it i.e. count off: one-potato, two-potato,..etc. 'til the brass just beyond the junction starts to shift in color and take it off the flame - let it cool on its own or drop it in some water,... Then expose every piece to the flame as identically as possible,... As with everything in reloading, consistency is king.

Ry
 
Re: SHWW Group

+1 for what blurry said. I'm not as presice as I would like, but I'm getting better at it every time. I count the sec it's in the flame, & watch the color at the same time. Just as the color changes below the shoulder the neck should be getting a dull golden color. That's it. I'm sold on it. Only time will tell if I get a significant increase in brass life, but what do you have to lose? The brass is going to wear out anyway if you anneal, or not.If it extends the life a couple reloads, & gives a little more consistency, it's worth it.
 
Re: SHWW Group

Yeah..... I'm most concerned about getting consistency back in my load... right now, it's jumping all over the place. That said, I'm pretty sure now (at least hoping), that I've got my finger on it, and it is a brass issue.... I was pondering everything from barrel to the new lot of primers I started, as the source of my woes......
 
Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tribe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah..... I'm most concerned about getting consistency back in my load... right now, it's jumping all over the place. That said, I'm pretty sure now (at least hoping), that I've got my finger on it, and it is a brass issue.... I was pondering everything from barrel to the new lot of primers I started, as the source of my woes...... </div></div>

What kind of dies are you guys using?
 
Re: SHWW Group

I use Redding Competition neck, & seating dies, along with a Lee FLS die, & a IT belt die.
Tribe. I'll bet that a few of your brass will go into your sizer, & pull out past the expander with little to no friction, & others will take a little effort to get through the expander. That's what was going on with mine when they got hardened. The brass won't spring back evenly, or consistently. Annealing will cure that.
 
Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cegorach</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What kind of dies are you guys using? </div></div>

I'm partial to Redding's Competition Die Set. They're more expensive but are very well made and allow ultimate control. You get a body size die, a neck size die which accepts individually sized collets (purchased separately) to control the amount of neck tension you want on the bullet, and a seating die that has the ever-so-handy micrometer top,... you don't NEED it, but it is really handy.

That said, I've got die sets from everyone pretty much,... Lee, RCBS, Hornady, even couple custom dies,... but the Redding's are the best I've come across. I'm a "do it once, do it right" kinda guy so it's worth the extra expense.

Ry
 
Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Daps!</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sunnyside Scott</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Daps,
What the hell are you buying? It looks like you are making room in the gunsafe. LOL.
Your .223 looks interesting, although I don't need the scope.
SScott </div></div>
Oh where to start:
Larue 18" 7.62 OBR with all the cool guy accesories
Leupold mark 4 spotter with horus h32 reticle
leupold mark 4 4.5-14X50mm FFP w/ M5 turrets W/ H27 reticle
larue 16" predetAR 16" for my SPR again with all the accesories
surefire 7.62K suppressor
surefire 5.56K suppressor
leupold mark 4 1.5-5 for the SPR
I think that's about it... for now
It's my spotter Mkollman74's fault I blame him. Well him and Chris Costa </div></div>

You're a man after my own heart. I have a GAP-10 18" with surefire brake on order. We'll have to do a side by side comaparison when we get them in. Where are you purchasing the surefire? I can't find anywhere local that stocks them.
 
Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blurry6</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cegorach</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What kind of dies are you guys using? </div></div>

I'm partial to Redding's Competition Die Set. They're more expensive but are very well made and allow ultimate control. You get a body size die, a neck size die which accepts individually sized collets (purchased separately) to control the amount of neck tension you want on the bullet, and a seating die that has the ever-so-handy micrometer top,... you don't NEED it, but it is really handy.

That said, I've got die sets from everyone pretty much,... Lee, RCBS, Hornady, even couple custom dies,... but the Redding's are the best I've come across. I'm a "do it once, do it right" kinda guy so it's worth the extra expense.

Ry </div></div>

Yup, had a set of Lee's and sold them and went with the Redding Comp set. Worth the money.
 
Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captnmo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Daps!</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sunnyside Scott</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Daps,
What the hell are you buying? It looks like you are making room in the gunsafe. LOL.
Your .223 looks interesting, although I don't need the scope.
SScott </div></div>
Oh where to start:
Larue 18" 7.62 OBR with all the cool guy accesories
Leupold mark 4 spotter with horus h32 reticle
leupold mark 4 4.5-14X50mm FFP w/ M5 turrets W/ H27 reticle
larue 16" predetAR 16" for my SPR again with all the accesories
surefire 7.62K suppressor
surefire 5.56K suppressor
leupold mark 4 1.5-5 for the SPR
I think that's about it... for now
It's my spotter Mkollman74's fault I blame him. Well him and Chris Costa </div></div>

You're a man after my own heart. I have a GAP-10 18" with surefire brake on order. We'll have to do a side by side comaparison when we get them in. Where are you purchasing the surefire? I can't find anywhere local that stocks them. </div></div>

Local? I can't find one anywhere on the Internet!
 
Re: SHWW Group

T-S-I on your shoot in Sept my Boss (wife) said the 10th & 11th would work for me, Thanks... uh, yes dear I'll go back to my corner.
 
Re: SHWW Group

Hey guys i got a surefire weaponlight up in the for sale section if anyone here is looking for one ill make a SHWW discout
 
Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Daps!</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sunnyside Scott</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Daps,
What the hell are you buying? It looks like you are making room in the gunsafe. LOL.
Your .223 looks interesting, although I don't need the scope.
SScott </div></div>
Oh where to start:
Larue 18" 7.62 OBR with all the cool guy accesories
Leupold mark 4 spotter with horus h32 reticle
leupold mark 4 4.5-14X50mm FFP w/ M5 turrets W/ H27 reticle
larue 16" predetAR 16" for my SPR again with all the accesories
surefire 7.62K suppressor
surefire 5.56K suppressor
leupold mark 4 1.5-5 for the SPR
I think that's about it... for now
It's my spotter Mkollman74's fault I blame him. Well him and Chris Costa


</div></div>

Dude, under the bus I go (again)... Just kidding, although someone should put a disclaimer with the Precision Rifle courses RE: all the money you spend AFTER they are over.
 
Re: SHWW Group

Chad, there's a guy on 6mmbr that does annealing, competitive rates $20 a 100 pieces I think, gets great reviews, may be worth looking into. He has a website, going to send him my brass when I get home, can't hurt.
 
Re: SHWW Group

FYI. I just checked the weather forecast for Saturday's ELR shoot in Acme, & it's still calling for temps about 70*, Sun, & winds from the south @ about 5 mph. I have some tarps if the sun gets too hot for us, & you should bring food, & drinks, your big gun, & ammo. Should be a good day.
What time do you guys want to meet up there?
 
Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bigwheels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK. Thanks. I was wanting to get one from a SHWW guy if it was still around. Have already contacted ceylon , & will get it from him.
Anyone else wanting to come out to Acme tomorrow?
Anyone else wanting to do some ELR action on 7/2?
So far I'm only counting on jcvibby, myself, & possibly Tribe, & Mayday.</div></div>

I would be down for bringing one of the 50's out, but my brother is getting married on the 2nd. post up on how it goes and I would be interested in the future! Been way to busy with some of the other hobbies as of late, but going to be getting back into shooting over the next couple months.

CJG
 
Re: SHWW Group

Have fun guys. I'm dying here without my TRG, every time my phone rings I get all excited hoping it's Benchmark telling me to come get it. It's usually just my wife.
frown.gif
 
Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Market Garden</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have fun guys. I'm dying here without my TRG, every time my phone rings I get all excited hoping it's Benchmark telling me to come get it. It's usually just my wife.
frown.gif
</div></div>

is yours the one thats going to be a 7wsm? i think they are working on it right now. i was down there last night shooting the shit with ron.
 
Re: SHWW Group

Bigs.... I can't make it this time... the family is heading the opposite direction for the weekend....

Shoot straight!
 
Re: SHWW Group

Well I tried to figure out a way to come for the ELR shoot but I just can't make it work. If you do another one later in the summer or early fall with enough warning on a date I can work that in.
 
Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Team-Send-It!!!</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Market Garden</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have fun guys. I'm dying here without my TRG, every time my phone rings I get all excited hoping it's Benchmark telling me to come get it. It's usually just my wife.
frown.gif
</div></div>

is yours the one thats going to be a 7wsm? i think they are working on it right now. i was down there last night shooting the shit with ron.</div></div>

Yeah, it's a 7wsm TRG-42. I know they were sending off the barrel for melonite a little more than 2 weeks ago. I would be pretty stoked if they were working on it now, but I wouldn't expect the barrel to have come back so quickly.
 
Re: SHWW Group

Anyone familiar with any ranges in the Puget Sound area that accommodate distances in the 500-1000 meter range?
 
Re: SHWW Group

I think Cascade has the ranges you are looking for, but you need a sponsor to get in. PM Tribe, & he'll be able to hook you up if someone else doesn't do it 1st.
Just heard from Tribe, & Mayday. Neither will be coming up this weekend, so It's just Jake, Kirk, Tibor, & I on Sat.
 
Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bigwheels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think Cascade has the ranges you are looking for, but you need a sponsor to get in. PM Tribe, & he'll be able to hook you up if someone else doesn't do it 1st.
Just heard from Tribe, & Mayday. Neither will be coming up this weekend, so It's just Jake, Kirk, Tibor, & I on Sat.</div></div>

Good to know. I was hoping for something more on the western side in Kitsap, Jefferson, or Mason County. If there's none available I'll head East to Cascades. Does anyone know the membership cost when they are taking people? I know there's a waiting list, but no sense in getting on a waiting list if I can't afford it to begin with, lol...
 
Re: SHWW Group

As far as I can tell it's still legal to shoot on DNR land as long as there's a backdrop, not in a designated no shooting area, on a road, etc. etc... Is that still correct?
 
Re: SHWW Group

DNR, BLM, FS land is all legal to shoot as long as you follow the rules. I haven't shot on a "range" for years.
 
Re: SHWW Group

Broker... Cascade does have a registration limit as of this year. I have no idea what sort of waiting list they have.... or if they even have one. It's about $160 a year.

If you keep sounding off around here, or are willing to drive to one of the "Group Shoots", you'll have options before you know it.
 
Re: SHWW Group

Several friends of mine with skill sets in this field convinced me I'd be good at it and it was easy to take up. After researching everything I know they're full of shit, lol... but they had good intentions. So, I'm a newbie to LR shooting and I might be out of place at a group shoot for the moment. I'm an application more than observation person. I'm hoping to have my equipment in the next few weeks so I can go out and get some rounds down range and some emperical knowledge.

Purchased
GAP 10, 308, 22", PRS, SF Muzzle Brake

Still deciding/ Waiting on funds...
Optics:
NF 3.5-15 MIL / SN-3 or T-PAL 3.2-17 MIL

Suppressor
Surefire FA762SS (I'm not a fan of ear plugs or hearing loss, lol)

Need to pick-up a bi-pod, Troy BUIS, and sling still... And before anyone starts in on me about bolts I know they're better but for now I'm not looking to go more than 1000 and I wanted a platform I felt more comfortable with to start.
 
Re: SHWW Group

The group shoots are really laid back and a lot of fun. As long as you're safe you'd have a great time. People are usually really nice and will gladly let you check out their gear and answer questions and all.


Unsolicited personal opinion: if this isn't a "fighting rifle" skip the Troy BUIS and put that money towards things you'll need. The odds of using the BUIS on a long range match rifle hover just over 0%, and the couple hundred dollars you'd spend for them could really be used for things you do need.
 
Re: SHWW Group

Those are some good choices actually as far as the rifle goes. i however wouldn't recommend a uso for an optic or a surefire for the suppresor.

I am getting together a group of northwest guys to do a small group buy on thunderbeast 30p1 suppresors which are regarded as one of the best long range precision cans.

don't be scared to come out the best way to get into this sport is to try it out, most all the guys you will meet will be happy to help you out along the way (including me).

send it

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Several friends of mine with skill sets in this field convinced me I'd be good at it and it was easy to take up. After researching everything I know they're full of shit, lol... but they had good intentions. So, I'm a newbie to LR shooting and I might be out of place at a group shoot for the moment. I'm an application more than observation person. I'm hoping to have my equipment in the next few weeks so I can go out and get some rounds down range and some emperical knowledge.

Purchased
GAP 10, 308, 22", PRS, SF Muzzle Brake

Still deciding/ Waiting on funds...
Optics:
NF 3.5-15 MIL / SN-3 or T-PAL 3.2-17 MIL

Suppressor
Surefire FA762SS (I'm not a fan of ear plugs or hearing loss, lol)

Need to pick-up a bi-pod, Troy BUIS, and sling still... And before anyone starts in on me about bolts I know they're better but for now I'm not looking to go more than 1000 and I wanted a platform I felt more comfortable with to start.
</div></div>
 
Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Market Garden</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unsolicited personal opinion: if this isn't a "fighting rifle" skip the Troy BUIS and put that money towards things you'll need. The odds of using the BUIS on a long range match rifle hover just over 0%, and the couple hundred dollars you'd spend for them could really be used for things you do need. </div></div>

I agree, but I was thinking I'd do some range time back at basics up to 300 without optics to be more rounded. More of a learn to walk before running thing.
 
Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Team-Send-It!!!</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those are some good choices actually as far as the rifle goes. i however wouldn't recommend a uso for an optic or a surefire for the suppresor.

I am getting together a group of northwest guys to do a small group buy on thunderbeast 30p1 suppresors which are regarded as one of the best long range precision cans.

don't be scared to come out the best way to get into this sport is to try it out, most all the guys you will meet will be happy to help you out along the way (including me).

send it
</div></div>

I went to that site once, but I don't know as much about their durability and performance as compared to Surefire which will outlast the gun, lol. How much are the cans running, are the minimal shift, and do you all have a class 3 dealer that will do the transfer and not rake me over the coals on a fee?

If you have a second what's your optics recommendations and reasoning?

I assume you guys announce the Group Shoots here? Is there a calendar/schedule or is more of a get together on weekends type deal? I wouldn't mind going and at least watching or having someone go over my rig with me and offering up suggestions...
 
Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Market Garden</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unsolicited personal opinion: if this isn't a "fighting rifle" skip the Troy BUIS and put that money towards things you'll need. The odds of using the BUIS on a long range match rifle hover just over 0%, and the couple hundred dollars you'd spend for them could really be used for things you do need. </div></div>

I agree, but I was thinking I'd do some range time back at basics up to 300 without optics to be more rounded. More of a learn to walk before running thing. </div></div>

Broker

Welcome to the Hide.

Buy this scope:
Bushnell Elite 3200 Tactical Rifle Scope 10x 40mm 1/10 Mil Adjustments Mil-Dot Reticle Matte <span style="text-decoration: line-through">$249.99</span> on sale for $199.99
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=950843

And these rings:
Burris 1" Xtreme Tactical Picatinny-Style Rings Matte Extra-High $49.99
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=810257

And you'll be at the range in no time learning to shoot. Expensive glass serves those best who know how to use it.

Good luck.

FWIW, SHWW is the best bunch of guys you'll meet regarding getting started in LR shooting. We help each other out a lot.
 
Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bigwheels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">DNR, BLM, FS land is all legal to shoot as long as you follow the rules. I haven't shot on a "range" for years. </div></div>

<span style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'"> <span style="font-weight: bold"> <span style="font-size: 17pt">Except now on DNR/WDFW lands you have to have that freekin $35 discover pass-to subsidize the WA state park system </span> </span> </span>

Your access pass with hunting fishing license is only good for Fish and Wildlife lands.

I'm not sure if the powers to be will be doing enforcement or education to start with ($99 fine) so best to play dumb if you don't have one.

<span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="color: #FF0000">Also, they're supposedly only good for one vehicle.</span></span>

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Thank your state legislators with a nasty letter!</span></span>
 
Re: SHWW Group

<span style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'"> Friends- Have a safe and enjoyable holiday weekend, be careful with the fireworks, and enjoy food and beverage in moderation
grin.gif


<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Most importantly----------->Send a few if you get a chance too!</span></span> </span>
 
Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Several friends of mine with skill sets in this field convinced me I'd be good at it and it was easy to take up. After researching everything I know they're full of shit, lol... but they had good intentions. So, I'm a newbie to LR shooting and I might be out of place at a group shoot for the moment. I'm an application more than observation person. I'm hoping to have my equipment in the next few weeks so I can go out and get some rounds down range and some emperical knowledge.

Purchased
GAP 10, 308, 22", PRS, SF Muzzle Brake

Still deciding/ Waiting on funds...
Optics:
NF 3.5-15 MIL / SN-3 or T-PAL 3.2-17 MIL

Suppressor
Surefire FA762SS (I'm not a fan of ear plugs or hearing loss, lol)

Need to pick-up a bi-pod, Troy BUIS, and sling still... And before anyone starts in on me about bolts I know they're better but for now I'm not looking to go more than 1000 and I wanted a platform I felt more comfortable with to start.
</div></div>

Broker, I've got the same GAP coming but with an 18" barrel. How much longer is your wait?

One of these days I'm going to link up with these guys and shoot with them. I'm in a bit of a transition with my career and with another baby on the way, so my time is limited. But from what I know of them already, they're an awesome bunch of guys.