Finally a 300 Whisper and not a knockoff by AAC/Remingtom
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/s...playErrorView_Y
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/s...playErrorView_Y
- Thread starter m21black
- Start date
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
Nothing except that it's not the original 300 Whisper. The question is what was wrong with the 300 Whisper that has been around since the early 90's. Suspect Remington was to cheap to pay for the rights to use the Whisper name.
Nothing except that it's not the original 300 Whisper. The question is what was wrong with the 300 Whisper that has been around since the early 90's. Suspect Remington was to cheap to pay for the rights to use the Whisper name.
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
I'm not an expert, but perhaps an alternate theory is that remington/AAC forked over the dough to do a little R&D and get SAAMI specs on it, after which they figured that since they were paying, they could call it whatever they wanted to.
Your theory is equally valid I suppose.
I'm not an expert, but perhaps an alternate theory is that remington/AAC forked over the dough to do a little R&D and get SAAMI specs on it, after which they figured that since they were paying, they could call it whatever they wanted to.
Your theory is equally valid I suppose.
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
Whisper sounds better than blackout... guess they didn't spend the money on marketing...
Back to the original point S&W is using the Whisper name... +1 for Smith and -2 for remington and aac
Whisper sounds better than blackout... guess they didn't spend the money on marketing...
Back to the original point S&W is using the Whisper name... +1 for Smith and -2 for remington and aac
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
-1 for S&W having to pay someone to use the Whisper name. The Blackout is a SAAMI spec cartridge and anyone is free to use the name.
-1 for S&W having to pay someone to use the Whisper name. The Blackout is a SAAMI spec cartridge and anyone is free to use the name.
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
Its "right" because they used the name Whisper and it sounds cooler?
Wow........the butthurt is strong in this one. Click on the link and here's what it says:
Caliber: .300 Whisper®
.300 AAC Blackout
Its "right" because they used the name Whisper and it sounds cooler?
Wow........the butthurt is strong in this one. Click on the link and here's what it says:
Caliber: .300 Whisper®
.300 AAC Blackout
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
It's pretty simple, if I'm a manufacturer and building a rifle or making ammunition and my option is to pay to name it 'Whisper' or use the name 'Blackout' and not only do I not have to pay a dime to anyone anywhere to do so but I ALSO get a SAAMI recognized round making all all rifles/ammo compatible w/o question... I think the choice is pretty clear. You say S&W has had the round for over 20yrs now and what have they done with it? Nothing. Now that someone has stepped to the plate and put some real effort into taking a run a making a real round they want to put out a rifle? Pass. IMO they had two decades to do something with it and AAC/Remington has done more in a few short years with it which is a benefit to shooters. Good for them for realizing there was a market for something and investing the time and money to do it right. They get my business.
Victory: AAC/Remington
It's pretty simple, if I'm a manufacturer and building a rifle or making ammunition and my option is to pay to name it 'Whisper' or use the name 'Blackout' and not only do I not have to pay a dime to anyone anywhere to do so but I ALSO get a SAAMI recognized round making all all rifles/ammo compatible w/o question... I think the choice is pretty clear. You say S&W has had the round for over 20yrs now and what have they done with it? Nothing. Now that someone has stepped to the plate and put some real effort into taking a run a making a real round they want to put out a rifle? Pass. IMO they had two decades to do something with it and AAC/Remington has done more in a few short years with it which is a benefit to shooters. Good for them for realizing there was a market for something and investing the time and money to do it right. They get my business.
Victory: AAC/Remington
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
I am the project lead on this at AAC.
We had an important customer ask for the 300-221 concept for a particular use, and decided to work on it.
A new name for a SAAMI standard 300-221 was needed. Here is why:
We (AAC) quickly found out that Remington would not make ammo for cartridges that were not in SAAMI, unless they were never to be sold commercially. So we could have paid SSK a royalty, used the Whisper(R) name, and made the ammo - but it would have been military only. I did not want to do it military only - as I believe that the stuff we make (silencers, SBRs) should be for sale to anyone who can legally own them. Also, there was no certainty that the customer would buy a lot of it - so if we did all of the R&D to bring it into production, I would want to have the commercial market open as well.
For those who do not know, SSK was not the first guy to stick a 30 caliber bullet in a 5.56mm or 223 case, but JD deserves a lot of credit for helping to make it popular. There were 223/5.56mm cases opened to 30 caliber at least since 1969. I have posted photos from a cartridge collector handbook.
SAAMI does not accept trademarked cartridge names, so Whisper would not have been a possible name unless SSK released it to the public.
Also, I did not want that name because it implies subsonic, and that is a niche market. 300 BLK has 16.7% more energy than Lapua 7.62x39mm ammo at 300 meters - so we wanted to make it primarily a supersonic cartridge.
Another problem with using the Whisper name was that the existing dimensions for the tightest chamber called Whisper were not usable for a cartridge that would see wide use. The throat is short - and if you load a Sierra 220 to magazine length, it will not fit the chamber and would raise pressures. This is why we say not to shoot 300 BLK ammo in a 300 Whisper chamber.
300 BLK has been out for 13 months. There are already over 70 companies making products for it. This has caused the prices for 300-221 type ammo to plummet. A year ago, 300-221 type brass was $1 each. Now it is 10 cents each with improper headstamps, or 25 cents each with proper headstamps. Ammo was $45 a box. Now it is $13, soon to be $9.
It is very expensive to introduce a cartridge to SAAMI - as a lot of engineers are involved. And after you do this process - anyone can make rifles or ammo royalty-free - so whoever does it is forced to spend the money, then give it away. Because of that, it the company who does the process gets to pick the name.
I am the project lead on this at AAC.
We had an important customer ask for the 300-221 concept for a particular use, and decided to work on it.
A new name for a SAAMI standard 300-221 was needed. Here is why:
We (AAC) quickly found out that Remington would not make ammo for cartridges that were not in SAAMI, unless they were never to be sold commercially. So we could have paid SSK a royalty, used the Whisper(R) name, and made the ammo - but it would have been military only. I did not want to do it military only - as I believe that the stuff we make (silencers, SBRs) should be for sale to anyone who can legally own them. Also, there was no certainty that the customer would buy a lot of it - so if we did all of the R&D to bring it into production, I would want to have the commercial market open as well.
For those who do not know, SSK was not the first guy to stick a 30 caliber bullet in a 5.56mm or 223 case, but JD deserves a lot of credit for helping to make it popular. There were 223/5.56mm cases opened to 30 caliber at least since 1969. I have posted photos from a cartridge collector handbook.
SAAMI does not accept trademarked cartridge names, so Whisper would not have been a possible name unless SSK released it to the public.
Also, I did not want that name because it implies subsonic, and that is a niche market. 300 BLK has 16.7% more energy than Lapua 7.62x39mm ammo at 300 meters - so we wanted to make it primarily a supersonic cartridge.
Another problem with using the Whisper name was that the existing dimensions for the tightest chamber called Whisper were not usable for a cartridge that would see wide use. The throat is short - and if you load a Sierra 220 to magazine length, it will not fit the chamber and would raise pressures. This is why we say not to shoot 300 BLK ammo in a 300 Whisper chamber.
300 BLK has been out for 13 months. There are already over 70 companies making products for it. This has caused the prices for 300-221 type ammo to plummet. A year ago, 300-221 type brass was $1 each. Now it is 10 cents each with improper headstamps, or 25 cents each with proper headstamps. Ammo was $45 a box. Now it is $13, soon to be $9.
It is very expensive to introduce a cartridge to SAAMI - as a lot of engineers are involved. And after you do this process - anyone can make rifles or ammo royalty-free - so whoever does it is forced to spend the money, then give it away. Because of that, it the company who does the process gets to pick the name.
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
Yes, there are a lot of people myself included that thought it was confusing dealing only with ssk and special brass etc. Once the round got the SAAMI sign off that all changed, there is all kinds of stuff out there, and everything works together because everything is standardized. brass is way cheaper than it was before, which is awesome. I always wanted one, but never got into it because of the cost. I am putting together an upper now and its half the cost of what it would have been a couple years ago by the time you figure in how much cheaper brass and dies are.
I agree that SSK had 20 years to do something that would have benefited all, instead they didnt and kept it to themselves so they could control it all. I have no idea why S&W would offer a gun based on whisper, its now outdated and wont be able to use the cheap blackout brass, because the pressure difference unless there is something I am missing.
Knock off? haha I think whisper is the new knock off...
CJG
Yes, there are a lot of people myself included that thought it was confusing dealing only with ssk and special brass etc. Once the round got the SAAMI sign off that all changed, there is all kinds of stuff out there, and everything works together because everything is standardized. brass is way cheaper than it was before, which is awesome. I always wanted one, but never got into it because of the cost. I am putting together an upper now and its half the cost of what it would have been a couple years ago by the time you figure in how much cheaper brass and dies are.
I agree that SSK had 20 years to do something that would have benefited all, instead they didnt and kept it to themselves so they could control it all. I have no idea why S&W would offer a gun based on whisper, its now outdated and wont be able to use the cheap blackout brass, because the pressure difference unless there is something I am missing.
Knock off? haha I think whisper is the new knock off...
CJG
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/547535/...acket-box-of-20
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/547535/...acket-box-of-20
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
I'm curious how they are claiming 300BLK ammo will work in the whisper chamber....
I'm curious how they are claiming 300BLK ammo will work in the whisper chamber....
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm curious how they are claiming 300BLK ammo will work in the whisper chamber....</div></div>
Maybe it is a 300 AAC Blackout chamber and they just used the Whisper(R) name.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm curious how they are claiming 300BLK ammo will work in the whisper chamber....</div></div>
Maybe it is a 300 AAC Blackout chamber and they just used the Whisper(R) name.
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm curious how they are claiming 300BLK ammo will work in the whisper chamber....</div></div>
Maybe it is a 300 AAC Blackout chamber and they just used the Whisper(R) name. </div></div>
I was thinking the same thing actually. Funny how ultimately they had to run a Blackout chamber to make it jive since their own chamber wouldn't be backwards compatible.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm curious how they are claiming 300BLK ammo will work in the whisper chamber....</div></div>
Maybe it is a 300 AAC Blackout chamber and they just used the Whisper(R) name. </div></div>
I was thinking the same thing actually. Funny how ultimately they had to run a Blackout chamber to make it jive since their own chamber wouldn't be backwards compatible.
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
So they are incorrectly naming the chamber. Which is dishonest.
Or are they unaware that 300blk ammo is unsafe in a 300 whisper chamber?
Or has JD Jones come up with yet another revised 300 whisper reamer to further confound his customers?
So they are incorrectly naming the chamber. Which is dishonest.
Or are they unaware that 300blk ammo is unsafe in a 300 whisper chamber?
Or has JD Jones come up with yet another revised 300 whisper reamer to further confound his customers?
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So they are incorrectly naming the chamber. Which is dishonest. </div></div>
Who's to say. There are 308 chambers with longer throats. As long as SSK agrees it is ok to call this Whisper, then it is ok.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So they are incorrectly naming the chamber. Which is dishonest. </div></div>
Who's to say. There are 308 chambers with longer throats. As long as SSK agrees it is ok to call this Whisper, then it is ok.
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So they are incorrectly naming the chamber. Which is dishonest. </div></div>
Who's to say. There are 308 chambers with longer throats. As long as SSK agrees it is ok to call this Whisper, then it is ok. </div></div>
Wonder what this is? [url=ttp://www.hornady.com/in-the-news/latest-news/introducing-300-whisper-ammo][url=ttp://www.hornady.com/in-the-news/latest-news/introducing-300-whisper-ammo]ttp://www.hornady.com/in-the-news/latest-news/introducing-300-whisper-ammo[/url][/url]
Seems S&W has Hornady lined up to make the original 300 Whisper, your expaination on the 300 blackout was great, even liked the part where you gave J D Jones credit.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So they are incorrectly naming the chamber. Which is dishonest. </div></div>
Who's to say. There are 308 chambers with longer throats. As long as SSK agrees it is ok to call this Whisper, then it is ok. </div></div>
Wonder what this is? [url=ttp://www.hornady.com/in-the-news/latest-news/introducing-300-whisper-ammo][url=ttp://www.hornady.com/in-the-news/latest-news/introducing-300-whisper-ammo]ttp://www.hornady.com/in-the-news/latest-news/introducing-300-whisper-ammo[/url][/url]
Seems S&W has Hornady lined up to make the original 300 Whisper, your expaination on the 300 blackout was great, even liked the part where you gave J D Jones credit.
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
I just have a few things to say...
1) I don't really care who made it first...
2) Thanks to JD Jones for making the 30-221/ Whisper and developing the round to what it is and developing the interest and following for the round...
3) Kudos to Ron Silvers/AAC/Remington for seeing the potential, going the extra yard with the 30-221 or now 30-223 and making shooting more fun. I agree with your stance on making it a SAAMI round will make a world of difference. I'm really glad that at a time when prices on everything seems to be going up you brought some competition to the marketplace and were able to increase the availability of your ammo and lower to cost to us shooters.
Everyone makes out here...Consumers get factory loaded ammo. The ammo manufacture has another point of sale and the firearm/ barrel manufactures/ silencer manufactures have new markets as well...
Thank you!
I just have a few things to say...
1) I don't really care who made it first...
2) Thanks to JD Jones for making the 30-221/ Whisper and developing the round to what it is and developing the interest and following for the round...
3) Kudos to Ron Silvers/AAC/Remington for seeing the potential, going the extra yard with the 30-221 or now 30-223 and making shooting more fun. I agree with your stance on making it a SAAMI round will make a world of difference. I'm really glad that at a time when prices on everything seems to be going up you brought some competition to the marketplace and were able to increase the availability of your ammo and lower to cost to us shooters.
Everyone makes out here...Consumers get factory loaded ammo. The ammo manufacture has another point of sale and the firearm/ barrel manufactures/ silencer manufactures have new markets as well...
Thank you!
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m21black</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So they are incorrectly naming the chamber. Which is dishonest. </div></div>
Who's to say. There are 308 chambers with longer throats. As long as SSK agrees it is ok to call this Whisper, then it is ok. </div></div>
Wonder what this is? [url=ttp://www.hornady.com/in-the-news/latest-news/introducing-300-whisper-ammo][url=ttp://www.hornady.com/in-the-news/latest-news/introducing-300-whisper-ammo]ttp://www.hornady.com/in-the-news/latest-news/introducing-300-whisper-ammo[/url][/url]
Seems S&W has Hornady lined up to make the original 300 Whisper, your expaination on the 300 blackout was great, even liked the part where you gave J D Jones credit. </div></div>
Read the fine print in your own links.
"Each load is compatible with guns chambered for the 300 AAC BLACKOUT and functions reliably in both suppressed and unsuppressed platforms."
Do you think it's coincidental that all these ammo mfg that never offered factory 300 Whisper ammo are now coming out of the woodwork? No, 300 BLK is driving the demand - but some of these companies had prior relationships with SSK and I'm sure they are doing this out of either loyalty or based on some contractual obligations. It's 300 BLK ammo with a different name on the box, if you believe anything else you are delusional.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m21black</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So they are incorrectly naming the chamber. Which is dishonest. </div></div>
Who's to say. There are 308 chambers with longer throats. As long as SSK agrees it is ok to call this Whisper, then it is ok. </div></div>
Wonder what this is? [url=ttp://www.hornady.com/in-the-news/latest-news/introducing-300-whisper-ammo][url=ttp://www.hornady.com/in-the-news/latest-news/introducing-300-whisper-ammo]ttp://www.hornady.com/in-the-news/latest-news/introducing-300-whisper-ammo[/url][/url]
Seems S&W has Hornady lined up to make the original 300 Whisper, your expaination on the 300 blackout was great, even liked the part where you gave J D Jones credit. </div></div>
Read the fine print in your own links.
"Each load is compatible with guns chambered for the 300 AAC BLACKOUT and functions reliably in both suppressed and unsuppressed platforms."
Do you think it's coincidental that all these ammo mfg that never offered factory 300 Whisper ammo are now coming out of the woodwork? No, 300 BLK is driving the demand - but some of these companies had prior relationships with SSK and I'm sure they are doing this out of either loyalty or based on some contractual obligations. It's 300 BLK ammo with a different name on the box, if you believe anything else you are delusional.
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
Good shit ! I am glad AAC and Remington went this route. It makes sense, great caliber and now since they brought it to the commercial market you will have a dozen rifle choices in the next year or two.
They also jumped on one of my favorite wildcat varmint calibers with the 17 Mach IV. Now available in many flavors in the 17 fireball.
It appears to be a home run, bet they are BUSY making ammo.
Good shit ! I am glad AAC and Remington went this route. It makes sense, great caliber and now since they brought it to the commercial market you will have a dozen rifle choices in the next year or two.
They also jumped on one of my favorite wildcat varmint calibers with the 17 Mach IV. Now available in many flavors in the 17 fireball.
It appears to be a home run, bet they are BUSY making ammo.
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chainring</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I smell senseless anti-aac trollery. Who is whisper? I want Blackout!
Thanks for mainstreaming what was previously a niche, reloader's concept.</div></div>
Good theory but I own several AAC suppresors...no complaints using my AAC Cyclone on my 300 Whispers...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chainring</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I smell senseless anti-aac trollery. Who is whisper? I want Blackout!
Thanks for mainstreaming what was previously a niche, reloader's concept.</div></div>
Good theory but I own several AAC suppresors...no complaints using my AAC Cyclone on my 300 Whispers...
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
My next AR build is going to be at the minimum an upper in 300 AAC Blackout and at maximum expense a whole rifle. From what I’ve read about the ballistics of the 300 AAC Blackout it is a great deer hunting round as it’s effective range fits into the average range that a deer is taken in New York State which is 35 to 50 yards.
Why not a 300 Whisper? I have been doing a lot of reading on both of these rounds and the consensus of what I read is that the 300 Whisper rounds are completely safe to shoot in a 300 AAC Blackout weapon whereas most 300 AAC Blackout rounds ARE NOT safe to shoot out of a 300 Whisper weapon.
Personally, I could care less who made what first and who named it what for a reason. What I do care about is the cost of the weapon and the cost of the ammo, the commercial availability of ammo, the ability to fabricate .223 Rem brass into 300 AAC Blackout, and to use .308 bullets to assemble rounds.
My next AR build is going to be at the minimum an upper in 300 AAC Blackout and at maximum expense a whole rifle. From what I’ve read about the ballistics of the 300 AAC Blackout it is a great deer hunting round as it’s effective range fits into the average range that a deer is taken in New York State which is 35 to 50 yards.
Why not a 300 Whisper? I have been doing a lot of reading on both of these rounds and the consensus of what I read is that the 300 Whisper rounds are completely safe to shoot in a 300 AAC Blackout weapon whereas most 300 AAC Blackout rounds ARE NOT safe to shoot out of a 300 Whisper weapon.
Personally, I could care less who made what first and who named it what for a reason. What I do care about is the cost of the weapon and the cost of the ammo, the commercial availability of ammo, the ability to fabricate .223 Rem brass into 300 AAC Blackout, and to use .308 bullets to assemble rounds.
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
+1 for the AAC Blackout. As soon as someone starts making some 16" piston uppers I will have one!
+1 for the AAC Blackout. As soon as someone starts making some 16" piston uppers I will have one!
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
Primary Weapons Systems has the 300 Blackout on their MK1 series uppers, in 16" variety... My next PWS rifle will be the MK109.
http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=313&idcategory=11
Primary Weapons Systems has the 300 Blackout on their MK1 series uppers, in 16" variety... My next PWS rifle will be the MK109.
http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=313&idcategory=11
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
tag
tag
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
OK. My new S&W 300 Whisper upper has compatable for 300 Whisper and 300 BLK stamped on it. I have some Hornady 300 Whisper ammo but want to do some reloading once i fire it. Can I reasonably expect to buy a set of dies marked 300 BLK and reload the Whisper brass?
Is the brass the same for both and the difference in throat the only real difference between them?
I see the warning that 300BLK pressures would be high in a 300 Whisper chamber but it says right on the barrel (and they assure me it was thoroughly tested) that I can shoot factory ammo marked with either head stamp in my upper.
BTW, early testing shows the S&W 5R barrel is very accurate. I was holding my 10" steel at 500 yards using an EoTech and bipod today.
OK. My new S&W 300 Whisper upper has compatable for 300 Whisper and 300 BLK stamped on it. I have some Hornady 300 Whisper ammo but want to do some reloading once i fire it. Can I reasonably expect to buy a set of dies marked 300 BLK and reload the Whisper brass?
Is the brass the same for both and the difference in throat the only real difference between them?
I see the warning that 300BLK pressures would be high in a 300 Whisper chamber but it says right on the barrel (and they assure me it was thoroughly tested) that I can shoot factory ammo marked with either head stamp in my upper.
BTW, early testing shows the S&W 5R barrel is very accurate. I was holding my 10" steel at 500 yards using an EoTech and bipod today.
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know a single person who has ever seen an SSK 300 Whisper(R) drawing. It is proprietary and non published.
But you can use 300 BLK dies for that rifle. </div></div>
That's what I wanted to hear.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know a single person who has ever seen an SSK 300 Whisper(R) drawing. It is proprietary and non published.
But you can use 300 BLK dies for that rifle. </div></div>
That's what I wanted to hear.
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DMack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Primary Weapons Systems has the 300 Blackout on their MK1 series uppers, in 16" variety... My next PWS rifle will be the MK109.
http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=313&idcategory=11
</div></div>
Fuckin' A! I fondled the PWS 9" Mk109 this year, that's the shit!!!! It's so light! Me and the fam are working on forming a trust now and this will be our first purchase. The wife said she just gots ta have one. Thanks to AAC for doing the standardization leg work, and thanks to Remington for bringing it with affordable ammo.
On topic: Good ole Smith and Wesson, another trip down copy cat lane. Yawn, not a fan.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DMack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Primary Weapons Systems has the 300 Blackout on their MK1 series uppers, in 16" variety... My next PWS rifle will be the MK109.
http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=313&idcategory=11
Fuckin' A! I fondled the PWS 9" Mk109 this year, that's the shit!!!! It's so light! Me and the fam are working on forming a trust now and this will be our first purchase. The wife said she just gots ta have one. Thanks to AAC for doing the standardization leg work, and thanks to Remington for bringing it with affordable ammo.
On topic: Good ole Smith and Wesson, another trip down copy cat lane. Yawn, not a fan.
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
"On topic: Good ole Smith and Wesson, another trip down copy cat lane. Yawn, not a fan."
Just like any company that builds a 1911 or a 380?
Funny how some folks look at things. Did you look back in S&W history and see that they basically invented the 22 rimfire, 357 and 44 Mag, 40 S&W..... the list goes on.
Ruger, now there is a trend setter! You really think they came up with the LCP on their own? Keltec doesn't!
"On topic: Good ole Smith and Wesson, another trip down copy cat lane. Yawn, not a fan."
Just like any company that builds a 1911 or a 380?
Funny how some folks look at things. Did you look back in S&W history and see that they basically invented the 22 rimfire, 357 and 44 Mag, 40 S&W..... the list goes on.
Ruger, now there is a trend setter! You really think they came up with the LCP on their own? Keltec doesn't!
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"On topic: Good ole Smith and Wesson, another trip down copy cat lane. Yawn, not a fan."
Just like any company that builds a 1911 or a 380?
Funny how some folks look at things. Did you look back in S&W history and see that they basically invented the 22 rimfire, 357 and 44 Mag, 40 S&W..... the list goes on.
Ruger, now there is a trend setter! You really think they came up with the LCP on their own? Keltec doesn't!
</div></div>
I am aware of the great things S&W has brought to the public in the past. I have a personal beef with their current offerings, and I feel alot of their stuff (L frame, M&P, Governor) are just copies of other people's guns. The X frames are cool, but I don't like the locks. I know the locks aren't going anywhere so long as Safe-T Hammer controls the company and I won't buy one with a lock. Which really pisses me off because some of their new shit is awesome(329PD) I'm just a hater is all. Their service was STELLAR when I had to use it in the past, so they're not all bad in my book. Ruger has their own problems, but I still own a Bisley I love to death. I don't think anybody would argue about whether they're ripping off Keltec. They all rip somebody in one way or the other, but I don't like it.
Seriously though, why label the rifle 300 Whisper and pay the royalty if it's really a 300 BLK chamber as it seems to be and confuse the uninformed consumer in the process? So you're not doing free advertising for AAC, that's why, and it seems chickenshit to me. Just one man's opinion.
Maybe I should check my panties for sand, I don't know...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"On topic: Good ole Smith and Wesson, another trip down copy cat lane. Yawn, not a fan."
Just like any company that builds a 1911 or a 380?
Funny how some folks look at things. Did you look back in S&W history and see that they basically invented the 22 rimfire, 357 and 44 Mag, 40 S&W..... the list goes on.
Ruger, now there is a trend setter! You really think they came up with the LCP on their own? Keltec doesn't!
</div></div>
I am aware of the great things S&W has brought to the public in the past. I have a personal beef with their current offerings, and I feel alot of their stuff (L frame, M&P, Governor) are just copies of other people's guns. The X frames are cool, but I don't like the locks. I know the locks aren't going anywhere so long as Safe-T Hammer controls the company and I won't buy one with a lock. Which really pisses me off because some of their new shit is awesome(329PD) I'm just a hater is all. Their service was STELLAR when I had to use it in the past, so they're not all bad in my book. Ruger has their own problems, but I still own a Bisley I love to death. I don't think anybody would argue about whether they're ripping off Keltec. They all rip somebody in one way or the other, but I don't like it.
Seriously though, why label the rifle 300 Whisper and pay the royalty if it's really a 300 BLK chamber as it seems to be and confuse the uninformed consumer in the process? So you're not doing free advertising for AAC, that's why, and it seems chickenshit to me. Just one man's opinion.
Maybe I should check my panties for sand, I don't know...
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
I think it was done for Hornady's benefit.
How do you know anyone is paying J. D. royalties?
Who did they copy the L Frame from?
If you think Colt Python you'd be wrong. The L Frame works and never gets out of time like all the Pythons I used to own before my first L.
Safety Hammer? Smith & Wesson Holding Co. is publicly traded. Yes, Bob Scott is on the board but that is it to my knowledge.
BTW, I see where the J-Frame internal hammer guns are now offered with or without the lock.
My 329 has digested several hundred rounds and quite a few in my 460 with no lock failure. I have never known anyone who had a failure. Maybe internet lore?
I think it was done for Hornady's benefit.
How do you know anyone is paying J. D. royalties?
Who did they copy the L Frame from?
If you think Colt Python you'd be wrong. The L Frame works and never gets out of time like all the Pythons I used to own before my first L.
Safety Hammer? Smith & Wesson Holding Co. is publicly traded. Yes, Bob Scott is on the board but that is it to my knowledge.
BTW, I see where the J-Frame internal hammer guns are now offered with or without the lock.
My 329 has digested several hundred rounds and quite a few in my 460 with no lock failure. I have never known anyone who had a failure. Maybe internet lore?
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
What they did right was bring another option to the table that more people will see because of the S&W name, and entrench the .300 Blackout enough that hopefully it doesn't fade away into obscurity. Perhaps local stores might even start carrying the UMC ammo that's being made for it!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ruger, now there is a trend setter! You really think they came up with the LCP on their own? Keltec doesn't!
</div></div>
Do you think Keltec came up with the P series pistols on their own?
What they did right was bring another option to the table that more people will see because of the S&W name, and entrench the .300 Blackout enough that hopefully it doesn't fade away into obscurity. Perhaps local stores might even start carrying the UMC ammo that's being made for it!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ruger, now there is a trend setter! You really think they came up with the LCP on their own? Keltec doesn't!
</div></div>
Do you think Keltec came up with the P series pistols on their own?
Re: Smith & Wesson did it right - 300 Whisper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think it was done for Hornady's benefit.
How do you know anyone is paying J. D. royalties?
Who did they copy the L Frame from?
If you think Colt Python you'd be wrong. The L Frame works and never gets out of time like all the Pythons I used to own before my first L.
Safety Hammer? Smith & Wesson Holding Co. is publicly traded. Yes, Bob Scott is on the board but that is it to my knowledge.
BTW, I see where the J-Frame internal hammer guns are now offered with or without the lock.
My 329 has digested several hundred rounds and quite a few in my 460 with no lock failure. I have never known anyone who had a failure. Maybe internet lore?
</div></div>
I don't know they are paying royalties, I assume because there's a trademark attached to the name Whisper. Could be wrong, and it's on me for assuming if I am, we all know about that.
You may never have had a problem with the locks, but I have personally. It's not internet horse shit. I had a 329PD that was the greatest packing/hiking gun I ever had. When fired with heavy loads(which isn't for everybody in that gun) the lock would engage, total bummer. Happened several times and I contacted Smith and they took it back and paid all the shipping and all that. The sheet it came back with said they changed the lock, but I didn't trust it anymore. Never shot it again and sold it. Since then I will never buy another Smith and Wesson with a lock on it.
Also had a 340MP that was the most horrendously painful handgun I've ever shot, but was very convenient for carry. The hand that rotates the cylinder stopped working before I made it through my first cylinder full of ammo, though. They took care of that as well without any expense to me, and in a short amount of time.
Last story of whoa with S&W was a 686+ special edition(with the 5" barrel and unfluted cylinder) that wouldn't shoot to point of aim no matter how high you adjusted the sights, it was still 5" low, it got sent in at their expense and came back with a 6" barrel. So it went back again, came home with the correct 5" barrel and still shot low as hell. They eventually had me measure the front sight and sent me a new shorter one and all was well. They paid for all of this, and didn't give me any shit at all. I'm saying all this to make it clear that I have plenty of experience with Smith and their service is fantastic, so I'm giving credit where it's due, but I've only bought 3 brand new S&W's in my life and all 3 needed the warranty right out of the box. That's unique for sure, in spite of this experience I still preceive them as a quality manufacturer and if they'd do away with the locks I'd give them more business.
Other than the failure I had you know what bothers me about the locks? THEY'RE FUCKIN' UGLY!!!! Not to mention unnecessary. S&W makes beautiful guns that they refuse to sell without the ugly ass lock. If they can produce the J frames sans lock then surely they could offer the rest of their line that way. The Classics they're reproducing now are cool, but who the fuck wants one with a lock on the side of it? Not me. Anyway...
I was puzzled by the choice to call it a 300 Whisper when it sure seems to me they're chambering for 300 Blackout, but with a Hornady partnership in mind it makes more sense.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think it was done for Hornady's benefit.
How do you know anyone is paying J. D. royalties?
Who did they copy the L Frame from?
If you think Colt Python you'd be wrong. The L Frame works and never gets out of time like all the Pythons I used to own before my first L.
Safety Hammer? Smith & Wesson Holding Co. is publicly traded. Yes, Bob Scott is on the board but that is it to my knowledge.
BTW, I see where the J-Frame internal hammer guns are now offered with or without the lock.
My 329 has digested several hundred rounds and quite a few in my 460 with no lock failure. I have never known anyone who had a failure. Maybe internet lore?
</div></div>
I don't know they are paying royalties, I assume because there's a trademark attached to the name Whisper. Could be wrong, and it's on me for assuming if I am, we all know about that.
You may never have had a problem with the locks, but I have personally. It's not internet horse shit. I had a 329PD that was the greatest packing/hiking gun I ever had. When fired with heavy loads(which isn't for everybody in that gun) the lock would engage, total bummer. Happened several times and I contacted Smith and they took it back and paid all the shipping and all that. The sheet it came back with said they changed the lock, but I didn't trust it anymore. Never shot it again and sold it. Since then I will never buy another Smith and Wesson with a lock on it.
Also had a 340MP that was the most horrendously painful handgun I've ever shot, but was very convenient for carry. The hand that rotates the cylinder stopped working before I made it through my first cylinder full of ammo, though. They took care of that as well without any expense to me, and in a short amount of time.
Last story of whoa with S&W was a 686+ special edition(with the 5" barrel and unfluted cylinder) that wouldn't shoot to point of aim no matter how high you adjusted the sights, it was still 5" low, it got sent in at their expense and came back with a 6" barrel. So it went back again, came home with the correct 5" barrel and still shot low as hell. They eventually had me measure the front sight and sent me a new shorter one and all was well. They paid for all of this, and didn't give me any shit at all. I'm saying all this to make it clear that I have plenty of experience with Smith and their service is fantastic, so I'm giving credit where it's due, but I've only bought 3 brand new S&W's in my life and all 3 needed the warranty right out of the box. That's unique for sure, in spite of this experience I still preceive them as a quality manufacturer and if they'd do away with the locks I'd give them more business.
Other than the failure I had you know what bothers me about the locks? THEY'RE FUCKIN' UGLY!!!! Not to mention unnecessary. S&W makes beautiful guns that they refuse to sell without the ugly ass lock. If they can produce the J frames sans lock then surely they could offer the rest of their line that way. The Classics they're reproducing now are cool, but who the fuck wants one with a lock on the side of it? Not me. Anyway...
I was puzzled by the choice to call it a 300 Whisper when it sure seems to me they're chambering for 300 Blackout, but with a Hornady partnership in mind it makes more sense.
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