So Disappointing

Downtown

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Mar 1, 2013
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To the Bankers and Lawyers fresh off their Holiday Inn Express Stays,

I am seriously bummed about the conduct regarding the Gunwerks news. Every time you think lessons were learned, people remind you they are just as stupid as the day before and learned nothing from past mistakes. We saw this same thing repeated many times, a pearl clutching article appears, and the race begins to tear them apart harder and faster than the last time you broke out the torches. We need a bigger bonfire seems to be the mindset.

I see you as Vultures sitting on the wire, looking down your noses searching for a carcass to pick apart. Just let that visual sink in.

The rush to destroy is strong and I hoped the continued warnings about attacking companies would sink in. Companies want to support you, but you make it really hard most days. I talk less and less to companies lately because of this very thing. I can use my horsepower to secure all sorts of deals for people. There are always companies looking for some consultation on how to better serve the industry and forums like here should be the easiest answer imaginable. Instead you choose to run these people off because of the tiniest triggers I have ever seen. Devoid of facts, simply going off a single side article, you instantly choose sides and start dividing the pieces. We saw this with Accuracy International when a liberal journalist tried to spin a single off hand comment regarding bump stocks. They even got the main characters names wrong, but everyone wanted to rip AI a new ass because of a single politically driven article.

This memorial weekend I suggest you reflect on your participation in trying to destroy a company based on single article. Think about the workers there, and what that company has been doing to promote and educate the shooters out here. Are they completely self serving or do you see them working to keep this industry moving forward in a positive way.

I happen to like everything Gunwerks does, I consider myself a fan of them from Top to Bottom. That fandom is what makes me, me and the driver of this site. That is what you are missing. People often wonder, why him, why them, because you just don't get it. The attacks you leveled were out of line and instead of taking a wait and see approach, you struck, with both both hands and your feet.

Here is a bit of insight, I was talking with Gunwerks before this news dropped. In the middle of everything, at 9PM I see this article. The next morning I spoke to them and asked a few simple questions. Mainly, will you be addressing this issue, the answer was an immediate yes, and I was told the process was moving forward this was a tactic. Okay, so I waited, and watched the circus roll into town.

There were several people who reached out to me to ask, if I felt this was a nail in the GW coffin. I said no. I backed off contacting Phil Velayo as I figured he was being flooded by questions and since I was talking with Landon, I didn't need to talk to bother Phil. Its amazing how many can recognize Phil as a rockstar in this industry but then attack his employer before seeing what his take on it was. He is certainly smart enough to be given the benefit of his insight prior to launching into a series of attacks. The fact he is standing by the company should say all you need to know, especially if you have any respect for him.

You internet lawyers and bankers have egg on your face, again.

Rather than walking away with your tail between your legs for jumping the gun, you decide to defend your position and double down. That has taken the form of second guessing how the business is being run. That is none of your business as it does not effect you in any way. There are no red flags coming out of the Gunwerks camp. What these weak individuals are doing is trying to make themselves look better after looking so stupid by playing Monday Morning Quarterback as if you would have run this business so much better. Some of you come off oh so superior.

I haven't decided, I have stayed out of the threads about this, but seeing how several members are trying to double and even triple down on the attacks, I may go on a silent banning spree today. Race Day, couple of hours watching the cars go round and round, seems like a good time to return the Sniper's Hide universe to balance. Thanos is right, sometimes there are just too many of the wrong people hanging around. A quick snap to return things to balance. I fancy myself a dictator and I know that pisses people off, but hey, I like it. So like ripping off the bandaid, I think a quick snap to put a little perspective on what Sniper's Hide is about.

I did not create Sniper's Hide so you could tear companies down. I did it to exchange information, to help promote all facets the shooting sports. This is supposed to be a community and you tried to banish a company without all the facts. To make it worse, when Gunwerks stood in front of the camera and said, we have it handled the article was a tactic, you attacked that message too. You didn't like the tone, after you attacked them, you didn't like the attitude, after you attacked them. You wanted them on their knees begging for their life as if you had the power to make or break it. For that reason, I will remove the cancer before it spreads.

There are cases were companies deserve the benefit of reflection and there are some cases where we should act early. If 10 people came out of the woodwork and said Gunwerks has their money and went silent, okay, let's start compartmentalizing. But that was not the case here. You had no red flags, in fact we saw the opposite. We know politically it's easy to put a gun company in a bad light, they are doing that everyday with all of us. The 2nd Amendment is not a Hunting or Competition Clause, it's to protect us against tyranny. When you have people standing in front of Capitals exercising this right because they feel the current conditions are Anti American, that is not Terrorism, that is exactly how the 2nd Amendment was envisioned. Stop helping them.

This ended up way too long, but hopefully you get the point. Understand this bottom line, the more you act the way you did over the last couple of days. The less companies want to participate or support you. They can easily sit back, do the usual and let you pay retail. You don't see more giveaways or freebies because I worry about this type of behavior. I shouldn't have to explain to people that is not how I want my site to Be viewed but, the members make the forum. I can guide the ship, but you are all manning the sails. I had secured a GW deal for the members prior to this, I am not sure the current condition of that effort, I feel you all ruined it for sure. Timing was bad I know, for that I feel bad.

I don't want blind allegiance, but feel respect is deserved, you practice that respect by not racing to the worse, but by employing a bit of common sense. You didn't see me post for a reason. If you called for the pitchforks early and often, you may not be here come Tuesday. If you tried to save face and doubled down you definitely will be shown the way out.
Thank you
 

j-huskey

Jafo / Instigator !
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Jul 27, 2001
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None
It's embarrassing having to apologize for some of the members here. it may not have anything to do with me, but I try to provide a better experience here by keeping balance.

I get a ton of push back from the registration restrictions we put in place. Because of the scams, the attempted hacks, I have 3 layers of security for the members. that means often safe registrations are flagged as potential spam. We look at IP, Location, Email, and even user names because they tell a story. So then we quarantine those accounts by rejecting them. This leads to a ton of hate mail because the default language calls it spam.

I don't care, I get yelled at all the time, usually 3x a day for this policy. The results is less scammers and we don't wake up to a Chinese invaded forum.

Removing members has never been a problem for me, we have good customers and bad customers. Why make the good customers suffer through the bad behavior, some people get it, others don't. I don;'t pander to the bad, I remove them.

A lot of things I do go against traditional thinking, okay, it either works for me or it doesn't. If it didn't I probably would have changed tactics years ago. Instead I have dug in deeper because I think it makes the quality of the forum better. I have two choices, I can focus on numbers or quality...
Dead offenders are not repeat offenders.

Removed problems resemble non repeating offenders.

Fleas, exterminate.
Lice, exterminate.
Roaches, exterminate.
Mice, exterminate.

Ahhhhhh
Frank's Snipershide Exterminator Service.

Has a nice ring to it. jmho

VR
 
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Maggot

Laffin atcha unowho
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Jul 27, 2007
11,648
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Dead offenders are not repeat offenders.

Removed problems resemble non repeating offenders.

Fleas, exterminate.
Lice, exterminate.
Roaches, exterminate.
Mice, exterminate.

Ahhhhhh
Frank's Snipershide Exterminator Service.

Has a nice ring to it. jmho

VR
Ya mean like this?
Somebody should do a parody like the ones Shankster used to do with Hitler.

 
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TheGerman

Oberleutnant
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This is making me snicker a little as I have business accounts with WF as I was able to get them set up, LoC and already have a banker with them. Otherwise I would have gone somewhere else; but at this point its all the same.

While I was truthful in what my business does, I'd love to know the look on their faces when they realize what we actually do while doing the activity I told them about; its not like its insurance or something.

Not worried about it at all as worse case is 'we re closing your account' and i take it somewhere else. I giggle a bit when I think about this.
 

DarnYankeeUSMC

Carpet Bagger
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Sounds like Wells Fargo was looking to unhitch themselves due to SJW pressure. They schemed in a backroom and came up with a plan to get their money back and make sure they still look good in the morning.
They knew exactly what kind of capital/cash on hand that Gun Works had or they would never have pulled that stunt. Banks make money using other people's money and they don't want to have debt settled for fractions of the original.
 
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TheGerman

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Jan 25, 2010
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the Westside
Sounds like Wells Fargo was looking to unhitch themselves due to SJW pressure. They schemed in a backroom and came up with a plan to get their money back and make sure they still look good in the morning.
They knew exactly what kind of capital/cash on hand that Gun Works had or they would never have pulled that stunt. Banks make money using other people's money and they don't want to have debt settled for fractions of the original.
This was my first thought as well. They've done shit like this in the past where they just closed business' accounts for no reason other than it was 'gun related' all of a sudden.

I can only imagine what the guy's face, who keeps badgering me when I'm in the branch about seeing up a financial advisor meeting to try and get more of my shit over to them would do as far as business accounts when I simply say the words 'machine gun'.

WF and BoA are more likely to send illegals free money than they are to welcome 2nd Amendment businesses.
 

DarnYankeeUSMC

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B of A shafted me back in '08. Fuck them!!
This was my first thought as well. They've done shit like this in the past where they just closed business' accounts for no reason other than it was 'gun related' all of a sudden.

I can only imagine what the guy's face, who keeps badgering me when I'm in the branch about seeing up a financial advisor meeting to try and get more of my shit over to them would do as far as business accounts when I simply say the words 'machine gun'.

WF and BoA are more likely to send illegals free money than they are to welcome 2nd Amendment businesses.
 

candyx

Private
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Minuteman
Apr 6, 2014
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Most of the major American banks were following the left to not fund gun companies anymore so why not secure credit from Russian Banks or any other foreign banks willing to fund these companies.
 

Ravenworks

Semper-Fi "80-84"
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Minuteman
Feb 8, 2019
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Most of the major American banks were following the left to not fund gun companies anymore so why not secure credit from Russian Banks or any other foreign banks willing to fund these companies.
I got rid of CITI, BOA, Home Depot (more CITI).
The only ones I have are from Capital One .
 

candyx

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Apr 6, 2014
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Never threw anyone under the bus , story posted was he was behind on taxes, loan payments and paying vendors. The thread was more about what everyone thought what happen to cause that. Turns out part of it was fake news I don't think anyone trashed the products at all just normal reaction to the press release. I would think the Owner of GW would be smart enough to understand the thread reaction to the press release knowing the posters had no idea it was fake news.You should of told us it was fake news from the start as soon as it was posted to avoid all this bullshit.
 

Redmanss

8541
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Aug 24, 2010
6,156
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Never threw anyone under the bus , story posted was he was behind on taxes, loan payments and paying vendors. The thread was more about what everyone thought what happen to cause that. Turns out part of it was fake news I don't think anyone trashed the products at all just normal reaction to the press release. I would think the Owner of GW would be smart enough to understand the thread reaction to the press release knowing the posters had no idea it was fake news.You should of told us it was fake news from the start as soon as it was posted to avoid all this bullshit.
If I had some shit like that come down the pipe, the last thought on my mind would be “Oh shit, better let The Hide know...”
 

silentwoods

Sergeant of the Hide
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Apr 14, 2020
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I own nothing of Gunwerks. But wishing someone else’s goat to die simply because you don’t have one is straight up commie propaganda.

I wish Gunwerks the best.
Fucking A well said.
 
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AKMarty

Online Training Member
Online Training Access
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Jul 2, 2019
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AK
This was my first thought as well. They've done shit like this in the past where they just closed business' accounts for no reason other than it was 'gun related' all of a sudden.

I can only imagine what the guy's face, who keeps badgering me when I'm in the branch about seeing up a financial advisor meeting to try and get more of my shit over to them would do as far as business accounts when I simply say the words 'machine gun'.

WF and BoA are more likely to send illegals free money than they are to welcome 2nd Amendment businesses.
PayPal is in the same boat as BOA and WF. If you wonder why, read their use policy.
 

DarnYankeeUSMC

Carpet Bagger
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I read that whole thread late last night and it seemed like there were only a couple rabid dogs in the Frey. There's also a couple that said that we should wait for GW's side of the story before passing judgement.
It's fucking shame that there's nothing written, aired on TV or radio or disseminated that can be trusted. When it's political you expect it but every day stuff? Sheesh it's insane. Obviously WF's lawyers made wild claims knowing that they will never be held responsible. Did they get lucky and some SJW type found that suit? Or were they tipped off?
Either way. We have got to verify everything before the dog pile trashes good people.

Ohh yeah. Reason number 54367329X10 to kill all the lawyers.
 
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Ravenworks

Semper-Fi "80-84"
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I read that whole thread late last night and it seemed like there were only a couple rabid dogs in the Frey. There's also a couple that said that we should wait for GW's side of the story before passing judgement.
It's fucking shame that there's nothing written, aired on TV or radio or disseminated that can be trusted. When it's political you expect it but every day stuff? Sheesh it's insane. Obviously WF's lawyers made wild claims knowing that they will never be held responsible. Did they get lucky and some SJW type found that suit? Or were they tipped off?
Either way. We have got to verify everything before the dog pile trashes good people.

Ohh yeah. Reason number 54367329X10 to kill all the lawyers.
Yeah and I caught myself getting into that.
One thing that A LOT of people forget when posting anywhere is the whole world has a view.
A good reference to this is the sticky posted in the pit when all the Virginia posturing started.
Then the media added the white supremacist to the mix.
 

goatboy

Sergeant of the Hide
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Sep 23, 2018
268
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It’s a jealously thing,

guys who can’t afford something feel the need to attack it because of the cost associated to owning them.

saw it with AI stuff, anything considered expensive is fair game to the vulture class because the can’t afford it. They are vultures for a reason, happy to pick the bones, easier than working for it, is to bitch about it.

could be rifle, scope, etc, if it’s priced above a certain level it’s bad.
I didn’t know this story, but understand the pressure leverage can put on companies and the danger of lender or investor capriciousness.

I met with gunwerks a couple of years back, great products, real tech and human support. A full service approach to the discipline. For nothing other than pecuniary reasons, people break bad on the company so they can feel better about themselves. They miss celebrating the innovations that they will later applauded when they make there way into big box guns. Rather than saving their dollars to buy the gun or whatever, they just tear at things. Not what our greatest generation did, not American values.
 
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Culpeper

"Goodbye, Rutten"
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Nov 25, 2006
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Some of you all need to check your fire and go back to make sure you're not changing your original position. I already see a few playing the reach around here. The original thread is closed, can't go back and edit, and sort of part of the permanent record.
 

candyx

Private
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Apr 6, 2014
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Some of you all need to check your fire and go back to make sure you're not changing your original position. I already see a few playing the reach around here. The original thread is closed, can't go back and edit, and sort of part of the permanent record.
Why would someone have to edit their post the spell check is still working.
 

DarnYankeeUSMC

Carpet Bagger
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Mar 18, 2012
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I know people that have bought their rifles and taken several of their classes. They have nothing but praise for the people and the company.

Back to topic. Verify Verify and then double check what is being spewed as gospel.
The Good Book warns that many will be decieved. We are witnesses to this atrocity every day now. And.... With better technology it's going to get worse. There was a thread here about the 5G and a couple videos where people's words were changed from the original to the opposite.
We, the 2A, Patriots, Constitiinalists, need to stick together but not like a pack of wolves.
I am sure Frank will clean house of those that went on a feeding frenzy.
 

WATERWALKER

0311 SHELLBACK
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Apr 19, 2014
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Deep in the Lone Star
There were a lot people that said things w/ no knowledge of facts. Statements were made based on lies, WF propaganda & half-truths. I had no firsthand knowledge one way or the other & felt no need to further muddle the waters w/ my opinion. Who am I to comment anyway?

There was no mention of GW taking anyone’s money & not delivering products to anyone, or even a product of lesser quality. I wish GW well as should you all. It’s a 2A company that supports our collective sport / lifestyle.

The very same could be said of many of you when it comes to supporting LE. Many times y’all believe the propaganda put forth by defense attorneys, media & outright liars. I’m not telling you that LE gets it right every time, but why the need to dog pile at every opportunity? If LE gets it wrong they should be held accountable & often times that is the case. Rather than listen to you bitch, complain, always arm-chair QB & rarely praise the officers / agents involved, you should keep your opinions to yourself & let the facts play out. You need the facts to make an educated statement.

*W/ the above statements, let me be the first to make this disclaimer: I believe in the COTUS, BOR, individual freedoms, personal choice & capitalism.

LL, sometimes less is better. This is what we call “addition by subtraction.”
 
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ATTkid

Private
Minuteman
Jun 6, 2019
3
0
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74
Fenton, MO
To the Bankers and Lawyers fresh off their Holiday Inn Express Stays,

I am seriously bummed about the conduct regarding the Gunwerks news. Every time you think lessons were learned, people remind you they are just as stupid as the day before and learned nothing from past mistakes. We saw this same thing repeated many times, a pearl clutching article appears, and the race begins to tear them apart harder and faster than the last time you broke out the torches. We need a bigger bonfire seems to be the mindset.

I see you as Vultures sitting on the wire, looking down your noses searching for a carcass to pick apart. Just let that visual sink in.

The rush to destroy is strong and I hoped the continued warnings about attacking companies would sink in. Companies want to support you, but you make it really hard most days. I talk less and less to companies lately because of this very thing. I can use my horsepower to secure all sorts of deals for people. There are always companies looking for some consultation on how to better serve the industry and forums like here should be the easiest answer imaginable. Instead you choose to run these people off because of the tiniest triggers I have ever seen. Devoid of facts, simply going off a single side article, you instantly choose sides and start dividing the pieces. We saw this with Accuracy International when a liberal journalist tried to spin a single off hand comment regarding bump stocks. They even got the main characters names wrong, but everyone wanted to rip AI a new ass because of a single politically driven article.

This memorial weekend I suggest you reflect on your participation in trying to destroy a company based on single article. Think about the workers there, and what that company has been doing to promote and educate the shooters out here. Are they completely self serving or do you see them working to keep this industry moving forward in a positive way.

I happen to like everything Gunwerks does, I consider myself a fan of them from Top to Bottom. That fandom is what makes me, me and the driver of this site. That is what you are missing. People often wonder, why him, why them, because you just don't get it. The attacks you leveled were out of line and instead of taking a wait and see approach, you struck, with both both hands and your feet.

Here is a bit of insight, I was talking with Gunwerks before this news dropped. In the middle of everything, at 9PM I see this article. The next morning I spoke to them and asked a few simple questions. Mainly, will you be addressing this issue, the answer was an immediate yes, and I was told the process was moving forward this was a tactic. Okay, so I waited, and watched the circus roll into town.

There were several people who reached out to me to ask, if I felt this was a nail in the GW coffin. I said no. I backed off contacting Phil Velayo as I figured he was being flooded by questions and since I was talking with Landon, I didn't need to talk to bother Phil. Its amazing how many can recognize Phil as a rockstar in this industry but then attack his employer before seeing what his take on it was. He is certainly smart enough to be given the benefit of his insight prior to launching into a series of attacks. The fact he is standing by the company should say all you need to know, especially if you have any respect for him.

You internet lawyers and bankers have egg on your face, again.

Rather than walking away with your tail between your legs for jumping the gun, you decide to defend your position and double down. That has taken the form of second guessing how the business is being run. That is none of your business as it does not effect you in any way. There are no red flags coming out of the Gunwerks camp. What these weak individuals are doing is trying to make themselves look better after looking so stupid by playing Monday Morning Quarterback as if you would have run this business so much better. Some of you come off oh so superior.

I haven't decided, I have stayed out of the threads about this, but seeing how several members are trying to double and even triple down on the attacks, I may go on a silent banning spree today. Race Day, couple of hours watching the cars go round and round, seems like a good time to return the Sniper's Hide universe to balance. Thanos is right, sometimes there are just too many of the wrong people hanging around. A quick snap to return things to balance. I fancy myself a dictator and I know that pisses people off, but hey, I like it. So like ripping off the bandaid, I think a quick snap to put a little perspective on what Sniper's Hide is about.

I did not create Sniper's Hide so you could tear companies down. I did it to exchange information, to help promote all facets the shooting sports. This is supposed to be a community and you tried to banish a company without all the facts. To make it worse, when Gunwerks stood in front of the camera and said, we have it handled the article was a tactic, you attacked that message too. You didn't like the tone, after you attacked them, you didn't like the attitude, after you attacked them. You wanted them on their knees begging for their life as if you had the power to make or break it. For that reason, I will remove the cancer before it spreads.

There are cases were companies deserve the benefit of reflection and there are some cases where we should act early. If 10 people came out of the woodwork and said Gunwerks has their money and went silent, okay, let's start compartmentalizing. But that was not the case here. You had no red flags, in fact we saw the opposite. We know politically it's easy to put a gun company in a bad light, they are doing that everyday with all of us. The 2nd Amendment is not a Hunting or Competition Clause, it's to protect us against tyranny. When you have people standing in front of Capitals exercising this right because they feel the current conditions are Anti American, that is not Terrorism, that is exactly how the 2nd Amendment was envisioned. Stop helping them.

This ended up way too long, but hopefully you get the point. Understand this bottom line, the more you act the way you did over the last couple of days. The less companies want to participate or support you. They can easily sit back, do the usual and let you pay retail. You don't see more giveaways or freebies because I worry about this type of behavior. I shouldn't have to explain to people that is not how I want my site to Be viewed but, the members make the forum. I can guide the ship, but you are all manning the sails. I had secured a GW deal for the members prior to this, I am not sure the current condition of that effort, I feel you all ruined it for sure. Timing was bad I know, for that I feel bad.

I don't want blind allegiance, but feel respect is deserved, you practice that respect by not racing to the worse, but by employing a bit of common sense. You didn't see me post for a reason. If you called for the pitchforks early and often, you may not be here come Tuesday. If you tried to save face and doubled down you definitely will be shown the way out.
I am in complete agreement with you. Although I am not a regular user of this site, I joined because as a visitor I didn't see the type of behavior that has evidently led to some serious strain in the relationship between the Hide and Gunwerks. There is no logical reason for members to "flame" a company or individual. It only polarizes the position of the parties in dispute and nearly always becomes emotional and irrational. I never saw any of this behavior when I visited before joining and would hope that everyone has heard the message loud and clear. If I feel the need to be humiliated or stomped on I know which sites will gladly accomodate me. I'm just a 75 year old Vet that enjoys reloading, shooting and continuing the pursuit of the "perfect" load to make the groups tighter. I thought that was pretty much the point of this. I sincerely appreciate the thoughtful and knowledgeable comments I read here and have learned some things that are new to me. I would hope that is this community's purpose. Thanks for letting me rant a bit. Now how about taking a deep breath and letting go of baggage that is way too heavy, yet contains nothing at all of any value?
 

OldSalty

Major Hide Member
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Nov 1, 2019
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This is why our collective cant get shit done. Jumping at the bit and trying to decide who has the biggest balls.

We destroy ourselfs habitually from within and in the process destroy others who also fight for us.
Bingo, was his name-o.

But, but...but,..."muh optics".

"Did X hurt or help the cause"

Nonsense, the lot of it.