SR-25 EM Carbine Historical Overview

KevinB-KAC

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Shortly after 9/11 elements operating in Afghanistan noted that the M4A1 even with our (KAC) MRE FF RAS, and S&B Short Dot was not up to the task of going from the CQB fight to the edge of the villages or out in the mountains, and while the 18" Mk12 Mod0 and Mod1 are capable in the accuracy department, that they where neither very handy for CQB, nor would 5.56mm, even with then newly adopted 77gr AA53 round (Mk262) capable of barrier penetration at range. Larry Vickers did a segment on Tactical Arms to air this year where he talks about why the M4 was picked over the MP-5 for CQB, as to somewhat paraphrase him “ you sometimes need to step out of the house and make a 100m or 200m shot”, he then relates to the 7.62mm SR-25 EM Carbine, and the 7.62 Battle Rifles, “well in Afghanistan, sometime you need to step out or go up on a building an make a 400-600m shot, and 5.56mm is not ideal for that”.



We had built pre-ban SR-25K 16" guns, and some other 7.62 carbines, however they where not really designed for the “M4 type” roles that where being envisioned.



We came up with the SR-25 14.5" Battle Rifle,

14-5leftclosed.jpg


With the idea is that it was very similar in appearance to the M4's and not going to draw undue attention, as well unlike the majority of systems, it used the same manual of Arms as the M4/M16, so soldier who have years on the M16FOW, don't have issues relearning drills, especially valuable under stress.



7.62mm is more optimized in longer than 14.5” barrels and really wants at least a 16" barrel, and a lot of concerns about the reliability of the 14.5" gun were being given, so shortly after the 16" SR-25 Battle Rifle was developed, which was really just a longer barrel.

16inch.jpg





We had never envisioned a 7.62mm gun being run like an M4, and especially with a suppressor neither the 14.5 nor the 16" gun where at the reliability level that was desired.

_32Y6488.jpg

Especially suppressed, I ran the 16" SR-25BR at classes, and demos.
_32Y8734.jpg

IMG_0063.jpg



Accuracy even with the chromed barrel was always good, sub-MOA and a fair amount under the 1/2MOA mark.

It is a good gun, but in high suppressed round counts it got dirty and finicky.







Near the first quarter of '09 we started work on a PIP of the 16" gun, as well as the 20” M110.

High-speed video, lots of rounds, more high-speed video, changes to the gas system, and more rounds and video, a lot more stuff and changes to the bolt carrier, the recoil system resulted in the SR-25 EM Carbine.



At the same time, the optical industry was busy working on a 1.1-8x scope to give the user the ability to take advantage of the added capabilities of the 7.62 round.

SR-25EMCARBINE1.jpg


EMCGroup.jpg


EMCGroup29April.jpg

What we ended up with was in our opinion the finest 16" 7.62mm gas gun on the planet.



We shot several EM’s for over 1,000 rds fully suppressed with no additional lube, with no stoppages

We have done extensive lifecycle work on the guns, endurance testing etc.



We wanted to build the best gun we could, so if someone on a mountain top in Afghanistan or wherever else needed to have a gun that would go and go and go, it would.

If he has to dump it in snow to cool it down, it would go and go and go.



With well over 50,000 rounds thru it, including a day where Mr. Knight and I stood in a puddle of muddy water splashing the gun to cool, we feel we are there.



Unlike our previous carbines, which we showed at SHOT (I have a pic somewhere of me holding the 14.5" gun at SHOT'04 when I was still in the Canadian Army) and never really publicly released for sale, we wanted a short 7.62 like this this gun to be our Flagship.



So its here, and available.
 

Onemoretime

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 1, 2007
1,249
2
San Diego, CA
Re: SR-25 EM Carbine Historical Overview

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sinister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Just relax. Now you're gonna feel a little pressure... <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">on the roof of your mouth</span></span>" </div></div>

LOL... I added what it <span style="font-style: italic">should</span> read.
 

poison123

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Jul 17, 2009
    2,671
    43
    42
    Atlanta
    Re: SR-25 EM Carbine Historical Overview

    Everything I've seen and read says they are amazing rifles. But I think the major issue is....they are priced too far out from their competition.

    The OBR is a great rifle...and it starts at 3k now.
    If you can order a GAP...its what 2500?
    REPRs are around 3300 to 3600.
    etc.

    The SR25's are just priced 1k too much at the very least.
     

    steve m

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Aug 23, 2002
    193
    0
    Los Angeles, CA, USA
    Re: SR-25 EM Carbine Historical Overview

    It's too bad KAC will not make one small adjustment to their rifles to be legal here in California. All they would have to do it change the model designation from SR to something else - even KR, for "Knights Rifle" and they would be legal for us to own, with an installation of the bullet button, a simple device that does not allow for a mag drop with a finger, but with a bullet tip. I'd love to have a KAC rifle(s).

    With one small change in engraving, we could suddenly buy KR15's and KR25's. LMT is shipping rifles directly to us now, I wish KAC would follow suit. LMT is adding "bullet buttons" at the factory and shipping with 10 round mags. I think Mr. Knight is missing out on alot of opportunity here.

    Nice write up on the rifle, btw.
     

    JL

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jun 18, 2005
    728
    35
    http://tinyurl.com/2m9yv3
    Re: SR-25 EM Carbine Historical Overview

    Kevin, thanks for interesting story and pics.
    I wish other gun manufacturers would offer similar storys here.


    About ammo used in tests, I noticed Lapua 167gr written in test paper.
    Is it 11grams/170gr LockBase Sniper cartridge- or 10.85grams/168gr Scenar?

    Im just wondering- if you´re using HPS sniper load, how messy it is compared with other ammo? And how about overall performance? I only know its pretty hot for a factory load.

    Got supressed 7.62 AR too- thats why I´m asking.
     

    KevinB-KAC

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Re: SR-25 EM Carbine Historical Overview

    JL,
    The Box says 167 Scenar, it was a load for a foreign gov.
    We shot 170gr and 175gr FMJ Lockbase as well, which did not perform nearly as well (around the MOA mark)

    We do offer a MIL/LE discount - however yeah our guns are really expensive, I don't blame anyone for getting sticker shock, and getting a less expensive gun, that for 99.9999% of people will be just as useful.

    Californians, the SR-25 and SR-15 are 'banned by name" and we do not want to get into the variant game. I know some people have bought Mk11 Mod1 and Mk11 Mod0 guns and converted them to Ca. 'compliant' however they are SR-25's by ATF book, and so we do not feel comfortable with that, and so Ca. sales are LE Dept or Mil entity only.
     

    Falar

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Mar 28, 2009
    982
    54
    Midland, TX
    Re: SR-25 EM Carbine Historical Overview

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KevinB-KAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JL,
    The Box says 167 Scenar, it was a load for a foreign gov.
    We shot 170gr and 175gr FMJ Lockbase as well, which did not perform nearly as well (around the MOA mark)

    We do offer a MIL/LE discount - however yeah our guns are really expensive, I don't blame anyone for getting sticker shock, and getting a less expensive gun, that for 99.9999% of people will be just as useful.

    Californians, the SR-25 and SR-15 are 'banned by name" and we do not want to get into the variant game. I know some people have bought Mk11 Mod1 and Mk11 Mod0 guns and converted them to Ca. 'compliant' however they are SR-25's by ATF book, and so we do not feel comfortable with that, and so Ca. sales are LE Dept or Mil entity only.
    </div></div>

    I wish more companies would take Ronnie Barrett's stance on sales to California.
     

    KevinB-KAC

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Re: SR-25 EM Carbine Historical Overview

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    KevinB-KAC said:
    I wish more companies would take Ronnie Barrett's stance on sales to California. </div></div>

    Yes but at that point it penalizes individual officers rather than the State for their problematic weapon laws.
     

    Onemoretime

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Sep 1, 2007
    1,249
    2
    San Diego, CA
    Re: SR-25 EM Carbine Historical Overview

    Thanks for being honest Kevin.

    I don't believe the state of California would care if 80% of the firearms industry boycotted them. They would like us all disarmed anyway.

    I love the weather, land, beaches, etc..... hate the laws and law makers.
     

    thmpr

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Dec 27, 2006
    172
    0
    West Coast
    Re: SR-25 EM Carbine Historical Overview

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KevinB-KAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JL,

    Californians, the SR-25 and SR-15 are 'banned by name" and we do not want to get into the variant game. I know some people have bought Mk11 Mod1 and Mk11 Mod0 guns and converted them to Ca. 'compliant' <span style="color: #FF0000">however they are SR-25's by ATF book</span>, and so we do not feel comfortable with that, and so Ca. sales are LE Dept or Mil entity only.
    </div></div>

    Not true since at the end of the day, the FFL bound book model designation is what counts.
     

    ranger1183

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jul 18, 2006
    3,104
    11
    Whitefish, MT, USA
    Re: SR-25 EM Carbine Historical Overview

    I'd like to see independent shooting / torture testing between the KAC SR-25 EM, the LMT .308 MWS, the POF 308, the LWRC REPR .308, and the equivalent Armalite and DPMS rifles. Especially testing in sandy and muddy environments where AR based systems are more prone to failures. FWIW, I sure would choose the AR system with a forward assist over one that "didn't need one". The fact that crap gets into AR's and causes stoppages hasn't changed in the last 30 years. But the new piston systems are a huge upgrade. At least the rifle isn’t shitting where it eats anymore. Bravo on that one.