Staball 6.5 loads.

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I guess "sooty" would be a way to describe it? I ran a dry patch down the bore and the trough of crud was gone. No way to get a good picture of it with my phone. One at the range, one indoor with a flashlight. No way to focus IN the barrel, but you can see how dark and how much texture the bottom of the barrel has.

It is a sooty powder, but I've not had anything like that in my barrel. That looks like something different is going on to me, but it is hard to see what that is. It looks like a pile of semi burnt powder???

 

[Mocadon]

It's under MV:

View attachment 7841751

But I was talking about the parameter at the top of the settings page "Consider Powder Temperature" (which is what you think the ambient temp of your ammo is sitting in the box or in the mag):

View attachment 7841752

Ahh, I see it. Strelok appears to calculate it from temperature pairs. Hmm, I don't have that data but one could fudge it.
Thanks

 

[CK1.0]

Ahh, I see it. Strelok appears to calculate it from temperature pairs. Hmm, I don't have that data but one could fudge it.
Thanks

The more the merrier, I try to remember to chrono a few if the temperature is +/- 10 degrees from when I last chrono'd and also Strelok will populate some of the open places as you true your MV on different days.... chrono a couple, and true a few times, and after a while, it gets pretty dialed in.

Once I've got a few solid numbers in there I pretty much expect first-round impacts out to 1000yrds, and once everything is in Strelok I can go months without touching anything... I'll true my BC here and there but as the weather changes it tracks well, even when it's off it's rare if it's more than a tenth...

 

[cas6969]

First wet patch after some Wipe out (foam out). It IS like shooting black powder!

 

[918v]

Using a magnetospeed, I saw a 30’ish fps temp variance from frozen to 110 degrees. This was with 140gr bullets and FC210 primers. Those getting these wild spreads have deficiencies in their loading, measuring or thinking.

 

[Mocadon]

First wet patch after some Wipe out (foam out). It IS like shooting black powder!

It's a ball powder so I wonder if it would prefer a magnum primer? I'll be checking it out with BR2's but if it's that dirty I'll try some CCI 34's.

 

[cas6969]

I do have some magnum small rifle primers, so I will try some next go round.

 

[CK1.0]

Using a magnetospeed, I saw a 30’ish fps temp variance from frozen to 110 degrees. This was with 140gr bullets and FC210 primers. Those getting these wild spreads have deficiencies in their loading, measuring, or thinking.

Lol. That's one egocentric conclusion. Or, your Magnetospeed is broken (not that unlikely honestly).

A 30'ish FPS spread with StaBall over those temps doesn't match what I've seen (or what most have reported), and would be neck and neck with the best of the best as far as temperature insensitivity is concerned. H4350/RL16 are the kings, and that's playing in their stratum (https://precisionrifleblog.com/2016/06/19/powder-temp-stability-hodgdon-extreme-vs-imr-enduron/).

It's temp stable for a ball powder, just not that good, let's not get carried away.

My SD's stay in the single digits and I get softball-sized groups at 1250 yards, so think my loading and measuring are under control, so it's probably just my thinking that's fucked up, but there isn't much thinking involved when just entering numbers I read off a chrono or truing impacts and letting the calculator glean what it wants to from that.

But, IDK, that Cal guy might have the same have deficiencies in his loading, measuring, or thinking that I do... his data is probably BS and wrong too (unless it matches yours of course).

 

[Gtscotty]

It's under MV:

View attachment 7841751

But I was talking about the parameter at the top of the settings page "Consider Powder Temperature" (which is what you think the ambient temp of your ammo is sitting in the box or in the mag, it defaults to the current temp so if it's cold like 32degF or hot at 90degF, it considers/includes that):

View attachment 7841752

Are you shooting it in a GT by any chance, if so what charge weight are you using with the 112gr MBs?

 

[CK1.0]

Are you shooting it in a GT by any chance, if so what charge weight are you using with the 112gr MBs?

Nope, boring old out-of-fashion 6CM. I'm just running it like a Dasher, 41 grains easy peasy, and jumping a mile to see how long my barrel will go shooting this dumb "barrel-burner" and not going anywhere near the lands lol.

1,250yrds IPSC, 2100rds on a Proof prefit, still going... :

 

[918v]

Lol. That's one egocentric conclusion. Or, your Magnetospeed is broken (not that unlikely honestly).

A 30'ish FPS spread with StaBall over those temps doesn't match what I've seen (or what most have reported), and would be neck and neck with the best of the best as far as temperature insensitivity is concerned. H4350/RL16 are the kings, and that's playing in their stratum (https://precisionrifleblog.com/2016/06/19/powder-temp-stability-hodgdon-extreme-vs-imr-enduron/).

It's temp stable for a ball powder, just not that good, let's not get carried away.

My SD's stay in the single digits and I get softball-sized groups at 1250 yards, so think my loading and measuring are under control, so it's probably just my thinking that's fucked up, but there isn't much thinking involved when just entering numbers I read off a chrono or truing impacts and letting the calculator glean what it wants to from that.

But, IDK, that Cal guy might have the same have deficiencies in his loading, measuring, or thinking that I do... his data is probably BS and wrong too (unless it matches yours of course).

I really don’t care what you or others have seen. You don’t know what you’re doing if you’re getting 1.4 fps per degree with this powder.

 

[CK1.0]

I really don’t care what you or others have seen. You don’t know what you’re doing if you’re getting 1.4 fps per degree with this powder.

Shouldn't you be changing the battery in your Magnetospeed..? lol.

 

[918v]

Go be incompetent somewhere else.

 

[CK1.0]

@Gtscotty I wasn’t shitting on 6GT or anything, sorry if I came across snarky.

I’d be running 6GT too if my experiment with “slow 6CM” wasn’t going well or if I was going to switch to a different 6mm.

In a way, I am running my 6CM like a 6GT (or Dasher) as well, just more empty space in the case is all.

After looking into it, an interesting thing about ball powder is that case-fill isn’t really a thing like it is with stick powders… this is why I can load giant batches of 9mm on a Dillion, only filling like half the case capacity (Sport Pistol) and shoot ~25 of them over a chrono and get an SD of like 5-6. The empty space, or lack of case-fill, doesn’t really mess things up with ball powders like it can with stick powder.

It’s a cool side-effect, I don’t think I could run the Creed as slow as I am using stick powder and get the same thing I’m getting using StaBall. Maybe with H4831SC, but again, that would yield a good case-fill with ~39-40 grains, and that’s part of it.

 

[Mocadon]

StaBall in my 6.5 Creedmoor report.

Seems about as clean as RL 16, give or take.

So, took my ladder of 10 steps of 5 rounds each, COL of 2.820, BR2 primers, Hornady 1x fired brass, 140 ELD-M's, spaced at .3 grains of StaBall 6.5 loaded from Max of 44.0 down to 41.3 grains to the range today, along with 4 steps of 5 rounds, same as above but with COL of 2.800, grains from Max of 43.7 to 42.8. I also shot 5 2020 factory Hornady Match 140's that give me both pressure and early extraction signs, and Hornady confirmed they were loaded with RL16.


No pressure or early extraction signs on my reloads. Maybe thanks to Clint at heavybuffers.com for the 8.5 oz weight and stiff spring.


This is from an 18" barrel on an Adams Arms P2 that's Omega 300 suppressed and slightly customized.


Also had some issues with the used Magnetospeed Pro that Scheels sold me as new. That's going back to them tomorrow. So, not all shots were recorded.


So....4,640' altitude, average 56 degrees.


Factory Hornady, 2662 avg, ES=9, SD=4.0, COL was 2.814


COL 2.820, 41.3 grs, 2543 avg, ES=68, SD ??


COL 2.820, 41.6 grs, 2536 avg, ES=23, SD=9.4


COL 2.820, 41.9 grs, 2550 avg, ES=16, SD=7.5


COL 2.820, 42.2 grs, 2567 avg, ES=11, SD=5.0


COL 2.820, 42.5 grs, 2574 avg, ES=38, SD=15.2


COL 2.820, 42.8 grs, 2615 avg, ES=37, SD=16.8


COL 2.820, 43.1 grs, 2605 avg, ES=38, SD=18.8


COL 2.820, 43.4 grs, 2634 avg, ES=52, SD=21.4


*** COL 2.820, 43.7 grs, 2683 avg, ES=52, SD=21.4


COL 2.820, 44.0 grs, 2675 avg, ES=48, SD=20.7


†************


COL 2.800, 42.8 grs, 2626 avg, ES=42, SD=29.6


COL 2.800, 43.1 grs, 2643 avg, ES=53 (2 shots, 2669 & 2617)


COL 2.800, 43.4 grs, 2651 avg, ES=55, SD=20.0


*** COL 2.800, 43.7 grs, 2673 avg, ES=6, SD=2.8


All shot okay groups at 100, but frankly I was so pissed at the Magnetospeed that I wasn't really trying so only shot sub MOA on the two 43.7 grain loads. Those were the ones I liked best so I'll load that and test COL differences another day. I don't trust some of the SD numbers it spit out either.


Peace.

 

[918v]

How did you prep your cases?

 

[Mocadon]

How did you prep your cases?

Deprime, Tumbler with ss pins for 3 hours, lube with home made alch & lanolin 10/1, using Redding National Match dies bump back 3 thousandths with the FL die, trim etc with Franklin Armory trimmer and chamfer and debur thing, dry media vibrator for an hour with nushine wax, prime, seat, light crimp....

 

[Mocadon]

Deprime, Tumbler with ss pins for 3 hours, lube with home made alch & lanolin 10/1, using Redding National Match dies bump back 3 thousandths with the FL die, trim etc with Franklin Armory trimmer and chamfer and debur thing, dry media vibrator for an hour with nushine wax, prime, seat, light crimp....

I'll add that Hornady brass sucks, if I don't use Macron to seal primers they tend to pop out even on factory ammo.

 

[918v]

Thank You for your explanation of your case prep process. Hornady brass works well in my bolt gun.

 

[Mocadon]

I'm shooting 140's in a 6.5 CM gas gun at 2730 with 43.5gr StaBall in second hand, bought in the PX Hornady brass and I'm definitely not blowing primers.

I've heard it's a problem for some others, but not all. My guns a rifle length piston system and with the suppressor on only it tries for early extraction, which I think gives the remaining pressure a chance to push them out. But, only on Hornady. Federal and Seller Bellot no problem.

 

[Gtscotty]

@Gtscotty I wasn’t shitting on 6GT or anything, sorry if I came across snarky.

I’d be running 6GT too if my experiment with “slow 6CM” wasn’t going well or if I was going to switch to a different 6mm.

In a way, I am running my 6CM like a 6GT (or Dasher) as well, just more empty space in the case is all.

After looking into it, an interesting thing about ball powder is that case-fill isn’t really a thing like it is with stick powders… this is why I can load giant batches of 9mm on a Dillion, only filling like half the case capacity (Sport Pistol) and shoot ~25 of them over a chrono and get an SD of like 5-6. The empty space, or lack of case-fill, doesn’t really mess things up with ball powders like it can with stick powder.

It’s a cool side-effect, I don’t think I could run the Creed as slow as I am using stick powder and get the same thing I’m getting using StaBall. Maybe with H4831SC, but again, that would yield a good case-fill with ~39-40 grains, and that’s part of it.

All good, I didn't take it that way. I remember a guy using that load at my range, If you're shooting an Origin, I'm pretty sure we've discussed this in person at SE, lol.

I was just curious what loads folks who were using StaBall in the GT were using. I messed with it a while, found what seemed like a good load at 39.5gr, and then it went wonky on me, hopefully just because I dried it out. At the same time though, my 6.5 CM StaBall loads didn't blow up like the GT did.

 

[Mocadon]

So, my current take on StaBall 6.5 is that it works better for gas guns than RL16. It's slower so that seems to benefit my gun for reasons I can't really explain. Hot factory RL16 loads at the same velocity were showing pressure signs and what I call Early Extraction Syndrome. StaBall doesn't cause those issues.

Also, sealing all primers with Markron and switching to a 8.5 oz buffer and stronger spring has helped greatly.

Dirty powder? Someone wrote StaBall was dirtier than others. Hmm, maybe, but I'm shooting a piston gun that's suppressed. So, I don't have a gas tube dumping into my receiver and I do have dirty brass caused by the usual suppressor back pressure. It's hard for me to see much difference between StaBall and the factory RL16 loads I've been testing with, at least as far as carbon etc.

I've decided I like StaBall for my 6.5 Creedmoor reloading. I've got some more tests to run at various COAL's for accuracy and SD's, but it's looking good.

 

[Gtscotty]

So, my current take on StaBall 6.5 is that it works better for gas guns than RL16. It's slower so that seems to benefit my gun for reasons I can't really explain. Hot factory RL16 loads at the same velocity were showing pressure signs and what I call Early Extraction Syndrome. StaBall doesn't cause those issues.

Also, sealing all primers with Markron and switching to a 8.5 oz buffer and stronger spring has helped greatly.

Dirty powder? Someone wrote StaBall was dirtier than others. Hmm, maybe, but I'm shooting a piston gun that's suppressed. So, I don't have a gas tube dumping into my receiver and I do have dirty brass caused by the usual suppressor back pressure. It's hard for me to see much difference between StaBall and the factory RL16 loads I've been testing with, at least as far as carbon etc.

I've decided I like StaBall for my 6.5 Creedmoor reloading. I've got some more tests to run at various COAL's for accuracy and SD's, but it's looking good.

I definitely like it in my 6.5 bolt guns, this was some recent load refinement with 130gr TGKs and 140gr gold dots, and starting to work with 143gr ELDx in my Sig Cross:

It also works well in .30-06 moving 190gr ABLRs. I had problems with consistency with StaBall in 6mm GT, but I was thinking the other day, maybe the 39.5gr load I was using was not getting good ignition from SRPs (450s). My 6.5 and .30-06 are all LRP, so perhaps that's the difference.

I also love RL16 in the same cartridges, but StaBall availability during the drought has been near the top of the heap, and RL16 has been near the bottom.... And they both perform.

 

[Mocadon]

Hmm, went out in the wind today to test my StaBall 6.5 loads. Tried out the replacement Magnetospeed and it worked perfectly......

Carson City Nevada, avg 50 degrees, 4,600'ish, AA P2 w/18" factory barrel.

Factory Hornady 6.5 CM, RL16 powder per Hornady, COAL 2.8145 avg.

Min. 2656, Max. 2669, Avg. 2659, ES 13, SD 5.4
#1 -- 2659
#2 -- 2656
#3 -- 2657
#4 -- 2656
#5 -- 2669



My reloads; all 6.5 CM, 1x fired Hornady brass and CCI BR2 primers, all StaBall 6.5 powder.......

Load A1: 140 gr. ELD-M
COAL 2.800, Chg 43.7 grs.,
Min 2650, Max 2707, Avg 2669, ES 57, SD 22.9
#1 -- 2667
#2 -- 2707
#3 -- 2672
#4 -- 2652
#5 -- 2650

Load B: 140 gr. ELD-M
COAL 2.810, Chg 43.8 grs.,
Min 2686, Max 2724, Avg 2706, ES 38, SD 15.4
#1 -- 2696
#2 -- 2724
#3 -- 2716
#4 -- 2712
#5 -- 2686

Load C: 140 gr. ELD-M
COAL 2.820, Chg 43.9 grs.,
Min 2686, Max 2717, Avg 2704, ES 31, SD 12.2
#1 -- 2717
#2 -- 2686
#3 -- 2705
#4 -- 2699
#5 -- 2713

Load D: 147 gr. ELD-M
COAL 2.820, Chg 43.5 grs.,
Min 2664, Max 2708, Avg 2683, ES 44, SD 19.5
#1 -- 2664
#2 -- 2708
#3 -- 2675
#4 -- 2669
#5 -- 2700

Load A2: 140 gr. ELD-M. (no photo)
COAL 2.800, Chg 43.7 grs.,
Min 2660, Max 2710, Avg 2691, ES 50, SD 18.8
#1 -- 2700
#2 -- 2660
#3 -- 2690
#4 -- 2710
#5 -- 2695

Photo is left to right in order.

I didn't shoot well in the 50 degree wind on the concrete bench, but was generally consistent on my part.


Carson City Nevada, avg 50 degrees, 4,600'ish, AA P2 w/18" factory barrel.

Factory Hornady 6.5 CM, RL16 powder per Hornady, COAL 1.45 avg.

Min. 2656, Max. 2669, Avg. 2659, ES 13, SD 5.4
#1 -- 2659
#2 -- 2656
#3 -- 2657
#4 -- 2656
#5 -- 2669



My reloads; all 6.5 CM, 1x fired Hornady brass and CCI BR2 primers, all StaBall 6.5 powder.......

Load A1: 140 gr. ELD-M
COAL 2.800, Chg 43.7 grs.,
Min 2650, Max 2707, Avg 2669, ES 57, SD 22.9
#1 -- 2667
#2 -- 2707
#3 -- 2672
#4 -- 2652
#5 -- 2652

Load B: 140 gr. ELD-M
COAL 2.810, Chg 43.8 grs.,
Min 2686, Max 2724, Avg 2706, ES 38, SD 15.4
#1 -- 2696
#2 -- 2724
#3 -- 2716
#4 -- 2712
#5 -- 2686

Load C: 140 gr. ELD-M
COAL 2.820, Chg 43.9 grs.,
Min 2686, Max 2717, Avg 2704, ES 31, SD 12.2
#1 -- 2717
#2 -- 2686
#3 -- 2705
#4 -- 2699
#5 -- 2713

Load D: 147 gr. ELD-M
COAL 2.820, Chg 43.5 grs.,
Min 2664, Max 2708, Avg 2683, ES 44, SD 19.5
#1 -- 2664
#2 -- 2708
#3 -- 2675
#4 -- 2669
#5 -- 2700

Load A2: 140 gr. ELD-M. (no photo)
COAL 2.800, Chg 43.7 grs.,
Min 2660, Max 2710, Avg 2691, ES 50, SD 18.8
#1 -- 2700
#2 -- 2660
#3 -- 2690
#4 -- 2710
#5 -- 2695

Photo is left to right in order.

I didn't shoot well in the 50 degree wind on the concrete bench, but was generally consistent on my part.

 

[Mocadon]

Hmm, went out in the wind today to test my StaBall 6.5 loads. Tried out the replacement Magnetospeed and it worked perfectly......

Carson City Nevada, avg 50 degrees, 4,600'ish, AA P2 w/18" factory barrel.

Factory Hornady 6.5 CM, RL16 powder per Hornady, COAL 2.8145 avg.

Min. 2656, Max. 2669, Avg. 2659, ES 13, SD 5.4
#1 -- 2659
#2 -- 2656
#3 -- 2657
#4 -- 2656
#5 -- 2669



My reloads; all 6.5 CM, 1x fired Hornady brass and CCI BR2 primers, all StaBall 6.5 powder.......

Load A1: 140 gr. ELD-M
COAL 2.800, Chg 43.7 grs.,
Min 2650, Max 2707, Avg 2669, ES 57, SD 22.9
#1 -- 2667
#2 -- 2707
#3 -- 2672
#4 -- 2652
#5 -- 2650

Load B: 140 gr. ELD-M
COAL 2.810, Chg 43.8 grs.,
Min 2686, Max 2724, Avg 2706, ES 38, SD 15.4
#1 -- 2696
#2 -- 2724
#3 -- 2716
#4 -- 2712
#5 -- 2686

Load C: 140 gr. ELD-M
COAL 2.820, Chg 43.9 grs.,
Min 2686, Max 2717, Avg 2704, ES 31, SD 12.2
#1 -- 2717
#2 -- 2686
#3 -- 2705
#4 -- 2699
#5 -- 2713

Load D: 147 gr. ELD-M
COAL 2.820, Chg 43.5 grs.,
Min 2664, Max 2708, Avg 2683, ES 44, SD 19.5
#1 -- 2664
#2 -- 2708
#3 -- 2675
#4 -- 2669
#5 -- 2700

Load A2: 140 gr. ELD-M. (no photo)
COAL 2.800, Chg 43.7 grs.,
Min 2660, Max 2710, Avg 2691, ES 50, SD 18.8
#1 -- 2700
#2 -- 2660
#3 -- 2690
#4 -- 2710
#5 -- 2695

Photo is left to right in order.

I didn't shoot well in the 50 degree wind on the concrete bench, but was generally consistent on my part.


Carson City Nevada, avg 50 degrees, 4,600'ish, AA P2 w/18" factory barrel.

Factory Hornady 6.5 CM, RL16 powder per Hornady, COAL 1.45 avg.

Min. 2656, Max. 2669, Avg. 2659, ES 13, SD 5.4
#1 -- 2659
#2 -- 2656
#3 -- 2657
#4 -- 2656
#5 -- 2669



My reloads; all 6.5 CM, 1x fired Hornady brass and CCI BR2 primers, all StaBall 6.5 powder.......

Load A1: 140 gr. ELD-M
COAL 2.800, Chg 43.7 grs.,
Min 2650, Max 2707, Avg 2669, ES 57, SD 22.9
#1 -- 2667
#2 -- 2707
#3 -- 2672
#4 -- 2652
#5 -- 2652

Load B: 140 gr. ELD-M
COAL 2.810, Chg 43.8 grs.,
Min 2686, Max 2724, Avg 2706, ES 38, SD 15.4
#1 -- 2696
#2 -- 2724
#3 -- 2716
#4 -- 2712
#5 -- 2686

Load C: 140 gr. ELD-M
COAL 2.820, Chg 43.9 grs.,
Min 2686, Max 2717, Avg 2704, ES 31, SD 12.2
#1 -- 2717
#2 -- 2686
#3 -- 2705
#4 -- 2699
#5 -- 2713

Load D: 147 gr. ELD-M
COAL 2.820, Chg 43.5 grs.,
Min 2664, Max 2708, Avg 2683, ES 44, SD 19.5
#1 -- 2664
#2 -- 2708
#3 -- 2675
#4 -- 2669
#5 -- 2700

Load A2: 140 gr. ELD-M. (no photo)
COAL 2.800, Chg 43.7 grs.,
Min 2660, Max 2710, Avg 2691, ES 50, SD 18.8
#1 -- 2700
#2 -- 2660
#3 -- 2690
#4 -- 2710
#5 -- 2695

Photo is left to right in order.

I didn't shoot well in the 50 degree wind on the concrete bench, but was generally consistent on my part.




View attachment 7855600

Hmm, I’m a bit befuddled as to why my SD's are so high. I seem to have 1 oddball in every group of 5. Still, the factory Hornady is VERY consistent but doesn't shoot well in my gun. I’ve got a 1,000 yard practice on Friday morning so before that i’m going to load some 140 gr and 147 gr at a COAL of 2.800 with a charge of 43.8 grains, just to see which shoots better. Oddly, that’s a max load for 147’s at that length, but .1 grains over max for the 140’s ?? Very strange. And, Hornady s app is the only source that goes that hot. Cross fingers.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Hmm, I’m a bit befuddled as to why my SD's are so high. I seem to have 1 oddball in every group of 5. Still, the factory Hornady is VERY consistent but doesn't shoot well in my gun. I’ve got a 1,000 yard practice on Friday morning so before that i’m going to load some 140 gr and 147 gr at a COAL of 2.800 with a charge of 43.8 grains, just to see which shoots better. Oddly, that’s a max load for 147’s at that length, but .1 grains over max for the 140’s ?? Very strange. And, Hornady s app is the only source that goes that hot. Cross fingers.

I have noticed that my SD and ES with staball and other powders to are greatly effected by seating depth as well as the speed. Seems like if I drop down a little on the speed and tune the seating depth so it's a tight group but with more jump, I can improve my ES quite a bit. Also, sometimes the powder makes great groups and great speed but just doesn't give the kind of ES numbers we can live with. I have moved to H4350 for my 6.5cm because of my ES numbers. I use it for my 6cm still and it's great, but I couldn't get low enough ES with it in 6.5cm even though my groups and speed were fantastic. Maybe there's other things I don't know, which is likely that can be done to shrink the ES numbers?

 

[Mocadon]

I have noticed that my SD and ES with staball and other powders to are greatly effected by seating depth as well as the speed. Seems like if I drop down a little on the speed and tune the seating depth so it's a tight group but with more jump, I can improve my ES quite a bit. Also, sometimes the powder makes great groups and great speed but just doesn't give the kind of ES numbers we can live with. I have moved to H4350 for my 6.5cm because of my ES numbers. I use it for my 6cm still and it's great, but I couldn't get low enough ES with it in 6.5cm even though my groups and speed were fantastic. Maybe there's other things I don't know, which is likely that can be done to shrink the ES numbers?

I would have gone with H4350 but it's just too hard to find, so I started with StaBall 6.5 for my loading. I find it kinda odd, but my gun doesn't like the longer loads. Anything over 2.800 seems to not shoot well. That's why I'm going to try 2.800 at max loads. I group well already with the 140's so I'll keep em short for the 147's now and see how they shoot.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I would have gone with H4350 but it's just too hard to find, so I started with StaBall 6.5 for my loading. I find it kinda odd, but my gun doesn't like the longer loads. Anything over 2.800 seems to not shoot well. That's why I'm going to try 2.800 at max loads. I group well already with the 140's so I'll keep em short for the 147's now and see how they shoot.

That's basically what I did too, but I finally got some H4350 and so now I just use staball for 6cm, which is great btw. My SD and ES are in reasonable territory now with 10 - 20 shot series. I just couldn't get that with staball in 6.5cm. There's a lot of variables though so, I'm definitely not saying it can't. I have about a 6SD and 12 ES in my 6cm with staball, so it will definitely do it. I'm not sure how these guys get 4 SD with 8 and 9 ES, if they actually do that with more than 3 shot groups that is

 

[M25BeastShooter]

Been running Staball 6.5 in my 6.5 Creedmoor 26" 1:8 twist Criterion Savage pre-fit barrel Temp 89 degrees
140 gr ELD-M Starline Brass Fed 210 primers loaded to 2.825 OAL
43.2 gr 2839 fps Av 10,1 SD
43.4 gr 2855 fps Av 9.3 SD
43.6 gr 2874 fps Av 9.4 SD

All grouped between .40" and .60"

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Been running Staball 6.5 in my 6.5 Creedmoor 26" 1:8 twist Criterion Savage pre-fit barrel Temp 89 degrees
140 gr ELD-M Starline Brass Fed 210 primers loaded to 2.825 OAL
43.2 gr 2839 fps Av 10,1 SD
43.4 gr 2855 fps Av 9.3 SD
43.6 gr 2874 fps Av 9.4 SD

All grouped between .40" and .60"

That's very close to my old load with a 130 Berger , but I switched to 4350 for my 6.5cm. I shoot stabal in my 6cm though still, which is just one grain lower and with lapua brass.

How many shots are you using to get those SD numbers? That's good speed for a 140gr bullet. I was running a 130 and getting MV of 2830 with 43.5 gr of staball in a 24" barrel. With the 4350 @ 42.65gr - 130Berger OTM my MV is 2870 but its a lot more jump.

 

[acudaowner]

my journey with 6.5 stabal ended with the below card my goal was 42.0 gr or less and speeds from 2647 to 2780ish

best of luck with yours while I do think the powder is a little anemic it shoots pretty nice , and at the range I have to shoot at it's been plenty fast 100 - 600 yards

 

[CK1.0]

After shooting about 30lbs of StaBall over the last couple years now, my thoughts are: it’s all about the case-fill.

Case-fill is a totally different thing with ball powder than it is with stick powder. Empty volume in the case isn’t as much of a big deal with ball powder, but there does seem to be a “happy place” range where the proportion of powder-to-empty-space (case-fill) gets in sort of a zone where it performs best.

This is all combustion after all, and the ball powder combusts differently.

If you’re going to load it just like stick powder, jumping a “traditional” 0.020-0.040” off the lands and using the CBTO/COAL that goes with that, you’re going to need more of it than you’re used to in order to achieve a case-fill that delivers good chrono numbers. For example, for me, numbers-wise, roughly 44gr of StaBall was/is about equal to 41-42gr of H4350 in my 6mm Creedmoor …and that’s what it took in order to get good speed, single-digit SD’s, with safe pressure still (but starting to walk up to the line).

Now, if you’re ok with a bigger jump, thus shrinking the internal volume of the cartridge… maybe running a little slower or just not trying to push the speed limit… I think it actually works far better that way, as it’s much easier to get the case-fill to its happy place where good chrono numbers become regular and you still see decent speed.

In other words, in my experience with StaBall, it seems like a shorter COAL load with the bullet seated deeper in the case is better and is easier to deal with than trying to just keep adding grains… and pressure gets spikey up towards the top anyways, especially if you develop your load ~75degF but might find yourself shooting in 100degF later in the summer.

Don’t fear the jump, max speed doesn’t really mean shit, shrinking the cartridge volume and maybe achieving a more optimum case-fill might matter more (and seems to with StaBall).

 

[CK1.0]

6CM
Lapua ex-22-250Rem-to-6CM brass (7x fired, AMP Aztec mode, originally necked up to .241" with a mandrel and zero-hassle fire-formed into 6CM on the first loading/firing)
CCI 200 LRP
Barnes Match Burner 112gr
41gr StaBall
CBTO 2.241" / COAL 2.802" (jumping approx. 0.100" to the lands)

- new barrel, zero barrel break-in (don't believe in that nonsense, single dry patch and go), zero load development (rounds leftover from old barrel), rounds #96-#100 down the pipe from the bench with bipod and rear bag:

 

[cas6969]

Just saw this thread and realized I never revisited it. I tried magnum primers, the line
of gunk on the bottom of the barrel is no better with them. But it is shooting well, so I’ll stick with it. (The powder that is.)