Starting JR in NLR22 need help

Rick Bland

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Been looking at getting my 15yo daughter into NLR22-22X matches. She’s a more competent shooter then most adults. She’s the leading member of her ROTC competition rifle team.. I’m more then a proficient shooter myself and have done a lot of competitive shooting although not in LRP although I used to take pride in hitting passer plates at 2-300 with an old savage mk64 I got decades ago for my 16th birthday.. surfice to say I can shoot and so can she.

Her is my issue and I would like honest non fanboy hate feedback as this is something I want to try to get he moved into competitive shooting while she is currently so into her ROTC rifle team comps.

I’m both torn between wanting her to do a precision bench rest as well as NRL22 matches.. the be benchrear would be closer to what she does in competition now but the NLR is more practicle use imop..

She’s already interested in shooting to start with but never to the current level she is now that she’s a freshmen on a traveling team and going to states first time up.. I’m looking to build on that to continue her education and pro efficiency use with firearms in general..

Lot of BS and I’m sorry but I want to lay the background out there first so I can get more specific to the point answers..

Here is the soup to nuts.. she’s 5-4 125lbs.. this will be her first time ever doing anything remotely close to this.. my initial thought process after some short research was to get either a rifle RPR or savage b22 presision. Now that the Base class of NRL has been moved up to 1200 from 1050 pair that with a 4x24 vortex diamondback tacticle. I know both of these are not high let respected amongst the snobs but it’s a starting point I can sell the wife on wo even having to have a second discussion over the cost.. it also allows the rifle to be properly setup to her size and is a reasonable weight for her to start with..

If all else fails with NRL22 matches and it’s a little too much to quick for her I know she will be fine doing benchrest as a fall back as that is close to what rotc rifle teams do anyways but from all three positions not from a bench but it’s still bullseye shooting none the less.. I believe production bench has a range of 1500 if not mistaken.. so I could swap the diamondback to one of my other firearms and throw a venom on hers and still be compliant..

(Yes I’m as a jr she has not price limitations but I’m not that guy or that father I want her playing by same rules as everyone else..

I’m more then capable of modifying both these firearms to get them reliable.. savage has sloppy mag wells lending to all sorts of feed issues and the extraction issues looooke they were solve ages ago.. the rpr looks like the biggest complaint is poa shift with the cheap chassis which much of this seems to be solved by custom fitting the nuts for a bipod as clearance is low and there is some flex in the chassis allowing the back of the bolts to contact the barrel at times negating the free float design..

SHi which of these is better he real alum chassis of the savage and working through its gimmicks.. or the ruger rpr both when done right are more then capable of .3 groups with right ammo..

Then there is the issue.. I know I’ll be and she will be better served long term if I get a 457 Throw it in a chassis and replace the trigger (at some point down the road) but this immediate taker her out of base while still staying within the jr and womens rules however in Florida NRL22 is just now getting here so at best she would compete vs 2-3 people vs a base class match vs 10-20 so I really don’t want to go down that road yet and if I were I’d just go flat out B14r. At that point and call it done tbh..

But I’d prefer a starting point that her younger brother can then build upon later when she moves to open maybe in a couple years..

And yes I’ve looked at going with say a simple mk2 adding risers etc.. to adjust it to her and keep it within base class.. tbh I even thought about stripping the strike Eagle off one of my ars.. and throwing it on my old 64f and seeing how that goes.. but I got 2 kids behind her and they are all going to need a proper starting point that is respectable enough wo going down the B14 route which I think honestly is just going to be way to much weight and size for them for a while..

I got the money to do whatever but I also what to make sure I get them on solid ground before throwing them to the wolves per say..

Thoughts?
 

littlepod

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    So benchrest is definitely pretty different than ROTC. Putting your rifle locked down in a benchrest rig, with barely a string touching the trigger to test out how awesomely built the rifle / ammo is I see as a very opposite side than 3Position (I think that's what ROTC is?) and NRL22. NRL22/PRS are more aligned with 3P as there are some stages where you shoot semi unsupported.

    I wasn't sure what you meant by juniors/ladies versus base class, and whether or not you wanted more competition or less. The ladies / juniors in our league get to go all out in their gear choices and they have less people in their division, so higher chance of winning. Ultimately the mindset/attitude you take into the sport is what is most important, so the shooters we try to grow and groom we focus on improving, and focusing on themselves versus comparing to others. I don't think any of our lady shooters really take pride that they "won ladies" division, they just want to get better.

    Anyhow my belief on gear is that if you can afford it, there's certain gear that I think will hold its value and will be able to stay in the family and something I'd never sell regardless if I was shooting a lot of matches and versatility to do 3Position, NRL22, Benchrest.

    For me there's probably 3 tiers.

    The I'm not really sure I want to shoot guns tier -
    Ruger Precision Rimfire - $400
    1. It's inexpensive.
    2. Customizable LoP, and Cheek to teach a person how to shoot properly and be comfortable.

    Don't go down the rabbit hole of trying to customize it, just use for what it's worth as a $400 learning tool to whet your appetite and see if it's a sticking sport.

    Then there's the I want something good, but I have a semi budget tier.
    CZ 457 MTR - $800 (good quality action, precision match barrel, extensible)
    The MTR barrel I believe is the most consistently accurate factory barrel. The walnut stock isn't going to suit her needs, but it's nice and something I'd throw in the shelf as something to switch it up for maybe another day.

    Then you get to choose your assortment of chassis/stocks.
    Cheap being KRG Bravo - $400
    Expensive being... all the other fancy ones $1000.

    You'll be able to plug this 457 MTR into whatever variety of things you want to do... 3P, NRL22, Benchrest and it'll hold its own pretty well.

    Then the last option is the I have no budget, and then you just go buy a Vudoo or RimX.
     

    lash

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    I agree with most everything that @littlepod just said. Jump in or don’t. I’d bet that your daughter can shoot better than the RPR or even the Bergera will allow her. This is no smear on those two as they are both great starter rifles. But for someone who is used to hitting when she pulls the trigger on a good shot, you want to at least move to a 457.

    Believe me that the other young guns don’t hold back and often place high on the total roster. In most places in Florida, you are not going to find a roster of 50-100 shooters. 20-30 is more common, with 3-5 of them being juniors and fewer than that ladies. Base class is usually also sparse, more so than juniors.
     
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    usafa77

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    Skip base class. Since she's a competition shooter she already knows she is just competing against herself. She will tire quickly of beating the three other people in base class. You mentioned working on both the rifles you are considering. Doesn't sound like fun for you or her. Why not buy something that shoots right out of the box? If she likes it she's going to end up in open class much sooner than later. Just to make sure you're aware- there are lots of college scholarships out there for rifle.
     

    NewsShooter

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    I'd say CZ or Bergara b14r, I prefer the B14r, mine has been fantastic. I'd put a better scope on it too, Athlon midas tac would be a decent choice. A friends daughter shot her first NRLx match this past weekend using his Vudoo with a razor scope, she is under 100 lbs. No offhand shooting but there was plenty of movement.
     

    6.5SH

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    I agree on avoiding trying to compromise to stay in base class (and I say that as a base class shooter).

    Another option to look at rifle wise is the:

    A bit more money than the MTR (same match chamber) but getting a chassis, adjustable LOP and cheek riser right out of the box for less than what the wood MTR plus Bravo costs.

    Given she is a teen and still growing the ability to adjust the rifle to fit her can't be emphasized enough.

    With a quality optic and ammo, equipment wise it is enough to win any NRL22 event. Is up to her and luck with conditions to do the rest.

    ETA:
    Whatever scope you choose really should have a zero stop. The Diamondback series does not and you both will quickly get frustrated without one.

    2nd ETA:
    The 457 triggers are often great out of the box, if not and can't be adjusted to where you want the fix is cheap:
     
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    littlepod

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    I agree on avoiding trying to compromise to stay in base class (and I say that as a base class shooter).

    Another option to look at rifle wise is the:

    A bit more money than the MTR (same match chamber) but getting a chassis, adjustable LOP and cheek riser right out of the box for less than what the wood MTR plus Bravo costs.

    Given she is a teen and still growing the ability to adjust the rifle to fit her can't be emphasized enough.

    With a quality optic and ammo, equipment wise it is enough to win any NRL22 event. Is up to her and luck with conditions to do the rest.

    ETA:
    Whatever scope you choose really should have a zero stop. The Diamondback series does not and you both will quickly get frustrated without one.

    2nd ETA:
    The 457 triggers are often great out of the box, if not and can't be adjusted to where you want the fix is cheap:

    The one you linked isn't the MTR chamber, MTR one is the green/orange one - https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-457-varmint-precision-chassis-mtr/

    But agree it's a good setup out of the box.

    This one is also a beauty - https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-457-varmint-precision-trainer-mtr-2/
     
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    MajorD

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    I have been shooting base a couple years now ( went cheap initially just in case I didn’t find it my cup of tea and alas I have) my aha moment was practice with a friend recently he has a good open class gun ( Kidd in a Victor stock) while I have a savage mark 2. While I could shoot groups fairly close to what the Kidd put up, I found the lack of ergonomics on the savage made it a chore and required every bit of focus I could muster. Trying the Kidd, the same results came much easier. Don’t handicap the young lady with base class. From what I have seen young women can do very well in nrl due to more flexibility for the various stages and props, and there is no reason they can’t win.
     
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    DeathBeforeDismount

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    If you are going to be serious get a vudoo or RimX. They are the only actions I haven't seen constantly jam at matches, especially in dust/wind.

    Its like buying free points, having a gun that just runs. Repeater .22's you have to pay to play. No way around it. You can keep trying to upgrade a CZ or tikka but it gets to a point you spent a ton of money and still have an inferior gun. You will have much better options with chassis, rails, magazines, ect.

    Skip the base class bullshit. No reason to handicap yourself or her.
     
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    John Glidewell

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    If you are going to be serious get a vudoo or RimX. They are the only actions I haven't seen constantly jam at matches, especially in dust/wind.

    Its like buying free points, having a gun that just runs. Repeater .22's you have to pay to play. No way around it. You can keep trying to upgrade a CZ or tikka but it gets to a point you spent a ton of money and still have an inferior gun. You will have much better options with chassis, rails, magazines, ect.

    Skip the base class bullshit. No reason to handicap yourself or her.
    ^^^ This. And go one step further....take her to some local matches and watch. Let her choose the discipline she wants to compete in. There are other style matches, like varmint, which are really fun and challenging. Mini palma is another one.
     

    lash

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    If you are going to be serious get a vudoo or RimX. They are the only actions I haven't seen constantly jam at matches, especially in dust/wind.

    Its like buying free points, having a gun that just runs. Repeater .22's you have to pay to play. No way around it. You can keep trying to upgrade a CZ or tikka but it gets to a point you spent a ton of money and still have an inferior gun. You will have much better options with chassis, rails, magazines, ect.

    Skip the base class bullshit. No reason to handicap yourself or her.
    Having run over a year’s worth of Outlaw/NRL22 matches, I cannot say that I’ve seen a CZ jam at one of them. I have seen zermat mags in Vudoo actions jam up though, many times. Apparently they need to be fitted by a competent smith. Plenty of base class actions jam up too. That’s why I put away my MKII early on after a particularly wet, windy and muddy day of shooting, I was done halfway through the ninth of ten stages. Had to take it completely apart at home to get it running again.

    I can tell you that RimX or Vudoo are not needed in order to win matches. Obviously our experiences differ, thus why our opinion does too.
     

    learjet

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    ive got a bit different take, ive shot NRL matches only, but at different ranges in 3 states. usually most guys in the matches i shoot are base class, and the open guns tend to be bergaras or tricked out 10/22s. I leave my vudoo at home and use a stock cz457 pro varmit, with a super sniper 10x. for me the light short gun is so easy to move with and setup on all the stages, esp the ladder. what i often see is a lack of preparation, not guns that arent accurate enough. shooters spending too much time playin with magnification or dialing when you need to save time and hold over to complete the stage. imho the gun / scope isnt that important, the targets arent that small. decent ammo, knowin your dope and managing time are the keys to nrl.

    just my take…if i get to a longer range match then for sure the vuddo will be used
     
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    Masojoh

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    My 15 year old daughter shoots a b14r with a carbon barrel. She is 5’ tall, and maybe 115lbs. That rifle can hang with my Vudoo at 100 (or be close enough for it not to matter). Adjustable LOP, and cheek riser make it a no brainer for her. She shot my trigger tech diamond once, and that’s what she has now in her rifle. The rifle is light enough for her to handle it with confidence, but heavy enough for stability. It sports an arca rail now, and she can slap one of my 10+ pound bags on it if she wants more weight.

    When I shot rifle matches in college Army ROTC, they were all unsupported - prone, kneeling, and standing. Natural point of aim, breathing, and trigger control were critical. Along with having the right jacket and sling to lock the rifle down. 10 minutes for 10 shots also was quite different than NRL22. I learned a not about the fundamentals of shooting there - but I never learned how to build a solid shooting position on a barrel, a bucket, a ladder, or a tank trap. My nrl22 learning curve is still steep.

    I 110% agree with the comments regarding base vs open. I try to focus on having fun when I go with my girls to matches. And having fun is a lot better when dad is yelling “impact” as they hit the targets. So I spare little expense when it comes to guns, glass, and ammo. Competing in base seems pointless in my situation, as I have the means to buy the nicer rigs. When I miss, I never blame the gun!
     
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    DeathBeforeDismount

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    Having run over a year’s worth of Outlaw/NRL22 matches, I cannot say that I’ve seen a CZ jam at one of them. I have seen zermat mags in Vudoo actions jam up though, many times. Apparently they need to be fitted by a competent smith. Plenty of base class actions jam up too. That’s why I put away my MKII early on after a particularly wet, windy and muddy day of shooting, I was done halfway through the ninth of ten stages. Had to take it completely apart at home to get it running again.

    I can tell you that RimX or Vudoo are not needed in order to win matches. Obviously our experiences differ, thus why our opinion does too.
    The last 2 matches there were a bunch of malfunctions, including CZ. The first one was a covered square range which shouldn't have been an issue. The second was a farm/ranch match with wind/dust. Everything but the Vudoo/Rimx were choking and i had to even wipe down the vudoo bolt after 150 rounds to make sure it picked up the next round.

    Why would anyone with a vudoo run rimx mags? Makes zero sense since they make their own dedicated mags that run and run and run,

    Guys who shoot in nice weather and conditions don't know what they don't know. Run them hard in bad weather and it quickly reveals what works and what doesn't.

    No you don't "need" them to win but its kind ironic that the leader boards at any remotely competitive match is nothing but them. These are called hints.
     
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    6.5SH

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    In a NRL22X match with 25+ mph winds and tons of flying dust I was the only one in my squad to not have a malfunction and the only one in the entire match to complete the timed 20 shot tie breaker in under the time limit.

    Windowed mags and tight clearances were not your friend there.

    I was shooting a T1x. Was that enough to win? Nope. A lot of great shooters and came down to how bad the conditions were when you were up. Even the winner zeroed a stage.
     
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    Buckhead

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    I shoot a T1X with an Arken Sh4 and do not feel handicapped in the least. I enter in base class.
    The combo just plain works and hardly ever has a malfunction.
    I have been first overall in several matches against open class shooters with Vudoo's, an Ultimatum Deuce, and some highly modifed CZ 457s.
     

    Tortuga

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    Base class is such a misnomer in NRL22. Unlike other disciplines that have classes that really separate weekenders from the high-end kit, Base v. Open does not. Base should be renamed "shoot what is already in your safe without spending any money" class. Shopping for rifles and optics and keeping in the base bracket is economically unsound. Between sales/discounts/used you get FAR more scope than MSRP and a stock/chassis that truly fits. In my limited experience, talent and practice play a far greater role than gear in NRL22. Add in there that your girl has every opportunity of walking away from matches with 3 trophies, might as well set her up for success.
     

    Rick Bland

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    So benchrest is definitely pretty different than ROTC. Putting your rifle locked down in a benchrest rig, with barely a string touching the trigger to test out how awesomely built the rifle / ammo is I see as a very opposite side than 3Position (I think that's what ROTC is?) and NRL22. NRL22/PRS are more aligned with 3P as there are some stages where you shoot semi unsupported.

    I wasn't sure what you meant by juniors/ladies versus base class, and whether or not you wanted more competition or less. The ladies / juniors in our league get to go all out in their gear choices and they have less people in their division, so higher chance of winning. Ultimately the mindset/attitude you take into the sport is what is most important, so the shooters we try to grow and groom we focus on improving, and focusing on themselves versus comparing to others. I don't think any of our lady shooters really take pride that they "won ladies" division, they just want to get better.

    Anyhow my belief on gear is that if you can afford it, there's certain gear that I think will hold its value and will be able to stay in the family and something I'd never sell regardless if I was shooting a lot of matches and versatility to do 3Position, NRL22, Benchrest.

    For me there's probably 3 tiers.

    The I'm not really sure I want to shoot guns tier -
    Ruger Precision Rimfire - $400
    1. It's inexpensive.
    2. Customizable LoP, and Cheek to teach a person how to shoot properly and be comfortable.

    Don't go down the rabbit hole of trying to customize it, just use for what it's worth as a $400 learning tool to whet your appetite and see if it's a sticking sport.

    Then there's the I want something good, but I have a semi budget tier.
    CZ 457 MTR - $800 (good quality action, precision match barrel, extensible)
    The MTR barrel I believe is the most consistently accurate factory barrel. The walnut stock isn't going to suit her needs, but it's nice and something I'd throw in the shelf as something to switch it up for maybe another day.

    Then you get to choose your assortment of chassis/stocks.
    Cheap being KRG Bravo - $400
    Expensive being... all the other fancy ones $1000.

    You'll be able to plug this 457 MTR into whatever variety of things you want to do... 3P, NRL22, Benchrest and it'll hold its own pretty well.

    Then the last option is the I have no budget, and then you just go buy a Vudoo or RimX.
    I have no budget.. but the idea behind the rpr and the b22 is that it’s customizable fit and I also have two younger children who enjoy shooting as well.. obviously I’d never upgrade these as they are a starter rifle but a B14 or vudoo is gonna be a little big and bulky for them.. I’d like to either build a 457 which would likely put her into open or just get started with the rpr or b22 and worry about fear and bags etc..
     

    Rick Bland

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    I agree with most everything that @littlepod just said. Jump in or don’t. I’d bet that your daughter can shoot better than the RPR or even the Bergera will allow her. This is no smear on those two as they are both great starter rifles. But for someone who is used to hitting when she pulls the trigger on a good shot, you want to at least move to a 457.

    Believe me that the other young guns don’t hold back and often place high on the total roster. In most places in Florida, you are not going to find a roster of 50-100 shooters. 20-30 is more common, with 3-5 of them being juniors and fewer than that ladies. Base class is usually also sparse, more so than juniors.
    My exact concern with having a jr or young guns classification vs being able to e in open class.. but what your saying basically is that I should just plan to get her a 457.. put it in a chassis with a good optic and let her fall into open cause the jr and young guns classes are as sparse as base class is.. want competition for her to grow through..
     
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    littlepod

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    I have no budget.. but the idea behind the rpr and the b22 is that it’s customizable fit and I also have two younger children who enjoy shooting as well.. obviously I’d never upgrade these as they are a starter rifle but a B14 or vudoo is gonna be a little big and bulky for them.. I’d like to either build a 457 which would likely put her into open or just get started with the rpr or b22 and worry about fear and bags etc..
    I think a RPRR is a great weapon that I wouldn't upgrade or get rid of. Fits a variety of sizes and uses.

    Inside of a 100y it's competitive. Outside of that it starts dropping off.
     

    Rick Bland

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    Skip base class. Since she's a competition shooter she already knows she is just competing against herself. She will tire quickly of beating the three other people in base class. You mentioned working on both the rifles you are considering. Doesn't sound like fun for you or her. Why not buy something that shoots right out of the box? If she likes it she's going to end up in open class much sooner than later. Just to make sure you're aware- there are lots of college scholarships out there for rifle.
    It’s the chassis that matter most to me right now tbh.. being able to properly fit it. If base is that spares in Florida then I’m really thinking just grab a Mtr throw it in a chassis and move her to open.. I’m more concerned with the proper fit then what I have to do to make it more reliable.. I can fix minor bolt and mag issues in the other two. They seem like a good starter option to build on on paper
     
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    DeathBeforeDismount

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    Base class is such a misnomer in NRL22. Unlike other disciplines that have classes that really separate weekenders from the high-end kit, Base v. Open does not. Base should be renamed "shoot what is already in your safe without spending any money" class. Shopping for rifles and optics and keeping in the base bracket is economically unsound. Between sales/discounts/used you get FAR more scope than MSRP and a stock/chassis that truly fits. In my limited experience, talent and practice play a far greater role than gear in NRL22. Add in there that your girl has every opportunity of walking away from matches with 3 trophies, might as well set her up for success.
    I disagree. Gear plays a greater role in NRL22/PRS22 than centerfire by a massive leap. The disparity between shooters equipment results in alot of points. You can get away with bad fundamentals due to almost zero recoil. Shooting good match ammo alone will put you ahead of most shooters.

    The 22 game is where the gear REALLY matter and shines. The same guys who stomp my ass in center fire, I hang with and can beat with a .22 and I have very little .22 experience. I run better gear and dont lose points to poor feeding and running guns. Guys running cheap shit who are good shooters shoot my gun and tell me its like cheating.

    As long as you have a basic understanding of positional shooting, know your dope/ballistics and run really good reliable gear, you will have a shot to win most 22 matches.
     

    DeathBeforeDismount

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    I have no budget.. but the idea behind the rpr and the b22 is that it’s customizable fit and I also have two younger children who enjoy shooting as well.. obviously I’d never upgrade these as they are a starter rifle but a B14 or vudoo is gonna be a little big and bulky for them.. I’d like to either build a 457 which would likely put her into open or just get started with the rpr or b22 and worry about fear and bags etc..
    Whats great about the 700 actions is you can swap stocks as they grow. Hell order a manners CS or CS2 with the minichassis and you are set.
     

    skotydontno

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    Look up allison zane, she started out about like your daughter as it sounds, definitely dont be afraid to jump in full bore if she is already competitive at that level, she will be winning these matches as well and probably having more fun doing it
     

    Rick Bland

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    Having run over a year’s worth of Outlaw/NRL22 matches, I cannot say that I’ve seen a CZ jam at one of them. I have seen zermat mags in Vudoo actions jam up though, many times. Apparently they need to be fitted by a competent smith. Plenty of base class actions jam up too. That’s why I put away my MKII early on after a particularly wet, windy and muddy day of shooting, I was done halfway through the ninth of ten stages. Had to take it completely apart at home to get it running again.

    I can tell you that RimX or Vudoo are not needed in order to win matches. Obviously our experiences differ, thus why our opinion does too.
    RimX and vudoo are both not in the running.. to many rimx companies trying to use prefit barrels and a 2300 vudoo shouldn’t had ejection and feeding issues. Out the box most are far from reliable or fun.. I’d put 2300 in a cz way before even considering those two.. and wielding a 20-30lb rifle might be fine for adults it’s far from appropriate for a smaller shooter who needs something closer to 10-12lbs fully equipped
     

    DeathBeforeDismount

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    I was about to buy a rimx last year and stopped due to the issues, mostly gunsmith related. I know a few guys with them and one has been through 3 barrels before getting the right one. Being cheap is the reason this happens. If they bought a barreled action from someone who knows what they were doing, it would have ran fine. Look at a TS customs or Altus build if you want it done right.

    What vudoo are having ejection and feeding issues? LOL. I have one my buddy has one and a few other guys we know shoot them and everyone swears by them. Yea you have to clean them, but what rimfire doesn't require cleaning? You are high if you don't think a vudoo is relible out of the box. It will shit on a CZ all day. A buddy of mine who shot in squad was running a CZ in a chassis. Usualy beats me in centerfire but i was kicking his ass that day. He switched to using my gun about 3/4 through the match and i don't think he dropped another point. Its like cheating and you dont know what you dont know.

    Even with a 22" MTU which is really more like a medium palma on a rimfire you can keep the gun as light or as heavy as you want. You can get a ligher profile barrel if you want as well. My 22" setup running a LRH, ATS and a ZCO 527 with Spuhr is like 11 or 12 lbs total. Its like playing with a toy after picking up the 22lb prs gun. You don't need alot of weight in a .22 gun to be honest. 10-12 lbs is more than enough even for adults.

    You do you but the best awsner is staring you right in the face. People trying to be cheapasses is why they are having issues.
     

    Rick Bland

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    Ok so the consensus seems to be..

    Base, young and womens classes are all very limbered in my region.. may as well just go open class..

    Trying to stay within the mini action for size and weight concerns.. a 457 fit to a chassis is the best bang for the buck.. especially if it’s something I need to keep around for her younger brothers later on..
     
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    skotydontno

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    vudoos are definitely advantageous over a cz imo. I started nrl22 with a cz 4 years ago and moved to a vudoo 3 years ago and have had zero regrets. I will still get my cz out every once in a while for a monthly nrl22 match, but my scores definitely reflect that. I've never really had any extraction issues, only feeding issues were caused by me not getting the mag fully inserted.
     

    BLJ

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    I’ll say this. I can vouch for a CZ 457(not a match chamber), Ruger PRF, Ruger American RFT(#8367), Midas Tac and Vortex Venom scopes. We’ve run these in rain, mud and snow with great success. Shooting SK Standard Plus and CCI SV.
    The adjustability of the RPRF is why we have it for a spare/loaner. I think this would also work for a person who is still growing.
    None of our rifles are bench guns. These are all set up for PRS style matches. IMO the possibility exists of the CZ being a contender in a bench match. The other 2 are more than capable on steel. My $.02.
     
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    b6graham

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    just buy a 457. you know all and def wont benefit from a vudoo or rimx
     

    Masojoh

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    I have a 16.5” barrel CZ 457 varmint precision chassis. It is a sub MOA rifle at 100 yards with center x. I paid around $950, IIRC. There is a lady that I shoot with from time to time and she shoots a 457 AT ONE. I think that rifle can be had for $700 or so. She hammers with hers, and the LOP and cheek height can be set. The short barrels make easy maneuvering too.

    I don’t think you would go wrong with a 457. I was going to sell mine, but decided to keep it as a backup since it shoots so damn well. My younger daughter loves her Kidd 10/22. While not as accurate as the bolt guns we own, she never comes off target when shooting. The 457 will be hers if/when she decides she wants a little more accuracy.

    Good luck!
     

    BLJ

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    Mine started out as a 457 At-One. $625 OTD in November 2020. Bought a scratch and dent XRS for $300 this past Christmas. Sold the At-One for $175. I really like the setup I have now.
     

    Tempest 455

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    Very cool!!!

    Get started early and support them best as possible. My oldest son (now grown man) started .22 when kid. Then FTR matches at 13. Won many times as Jr at local at state matches. Since then won two state 1st place championships long range FTR at 1000 yards and other some matches in other states. Spent a lot of money and time but don't regret a dollar spent or a min of time.

    Good job and best wishes.
     
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    Tortuga

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    I disagree. Gear plays a greater role in NRL22/PRS22 than centerfire by a massive leap. The disparity between shooters equipment results in alot of points. You can get away with bad fundamentals due to almost zero recoil. Shooting good match ammo alone will put you ahead of most shooters.
    I agree with your disagreement based on your information.(y) My initial statement should have been stated differently. Your post covers things great, so I'm just going to back to eating crayons.
     

    littlepod

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    So thinking about this more and the actual shooter...

    Failure to feed and failure to eject are the most buzzkill things to happen and really sap all the fun and life out of you. So there are a few things that I would avoid.

    Tikka T1X, ejection issues. Every T1X eventually will encounter this, and it's a pain. And their mags fall apart.

    Magazine loading - Vudoo. You have to pay attention. My wife won't be bothered so she's probably not going to be getting a Vudoo until they fix their magazines where a child can load one without screwing it up. I need to test this, but I bet I could get an Ultimatum Deuce magazine to go into a Vudoo.

    CZ 457 - no real complaints here, brain dead to load, and shoot. > 10 rounds, and the mags start becoming bananas, and make sure you don't push the mag into things as that can cause problems. But really that's user error. CZ 457 non MTR is a lottery, no guarantee on precision and accuracy. MTR at least has a sub moa guarantee.

    My wife - can't be bothered with paying attention when loading a magazine. Probably put her on a RimX built by Modacam (purchase through Bison Tactical) and she's a lefty, so CZ 457 isn't going to work for her. RimX magazines can be loaded by a dummy and can't screw it up.

    My daughter - at young age, like 10, probably put her behind a Ruger RPRR and get her fundamentals good. As she sizes up, it'll most likely be a Vudoo as I think if she cares enough about the sport, she'll pay attention and load her magazines right.

    I am the MD for the matches up here in Seattle, WA area and have played with about 10 Vudoos so far. The Gen 1 / Gen 2 90 degree throws are the most reliable and have had so many years to iron out kinks that I haven't seen any issues from any of the shooters here. The feeding issues have always been user error, either the magazine, or incorrectly installed in the chassis. You have a high precision control fed round, if the cant is off in your action to chassis, or the magazine isn't sitting right, it isn't going to work. This isn't like a push fed up a feed ramp kind of thing. But once you do it right, honestly haven't seen someone with issues.

    The 360, has had growing pains... ejection issues, broken bolt stop, yeh it's their first run and been out for less than a year. Today if I bought one, I'd get a 360, a year of kinks worked out but quite a few people have had the first versions and have had problems.

    Comparing the two, I'd say a CZ 457 MTR probably gets you to about 90-95% of a Vudoo / RimX in terms of just raw performance/accuracy. So identical shooters I think can blame the gun probably 1 out of 15-20 shots versus a well built Vudoo / RimX. And that's when the podium shooters start switching over. $800 barreled action for a MTR versus a $2100 (w/ trigger) barreled action for a Vudoo/RimX.

    The whole weight thing is pretty meh, I wouldn't call a 6lb barreled action overly heavy. Just build around it. You want a 11 lb gun, then put it in a 3lb chassis, and a 2lb scope. You want a 20 lb gun, stick it in a 10lb chassis w/ weights in it. A do-it-all length / weight balance, like an 18-20" Kukri.
     

    John Glidewell

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    I like my RimX. Quality barrel and follow the instructions on setting mag height. No issues.
     

    NewsShooter

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    Ok so the consensus seems to be..

    Base, young and womens classes are all very limbered in my region.. may as well just go open class..

    Trying to stay within the mini action for size and weight concerns.. a 457 fit to a chassis is the best bang for the buck.. especially if it’s something I need to keep around for her younger brothers later on..

    I think you're worried about weight a little to much. Unless she is doing positional shooting it shouldn't be an issue. Like I posted above, my buddies daughter shot her first NRLx match recently using his vudoo in an envy chassis with weights and a vortex razor. She did well, is about five feet tall and I'd bet she's under 100 lbs.
     

    Rick Bland

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    My 15 year old daughter shoots a b14r with a carbon barrel. She is 5’ tall, and maybe 115lbs. That rifle can hang with my Vudoo at 100 (or be close enough for it not to matter). Adjustable LOP, and cheek riser make it a no brainer for her. She shot my trigger tech diamond once, and that’s what she has now in her rifle. The rifle is light enough for her to handle it with confidence, but heavy enough for stability. It sports an arca rail now, and she can slap one of my 10+ pound bags on it if she wants more weight.

    When I shot rifle matches in college Army ROTC, they were all unsupported - prone, kneeling, and standing. Natural point of aim, breathing, and trigger control were critical. Along with having the right jacket and sling to lock the rifle down. 10 minutes for 10 shots also was quite different than NRL22. I learned a not about the fundamentals of shooting there - but I never learned how to build a solid shooting position on a barrel, a bucket, a ladder, or a tank trap. My nrl22 learning curve is still steep.

    I 110% agree with the comments regarding base vs open. I try to focus on having fun when I go with my girls to matches. And having fun is a lot better when dad is yelling “impact” as they hit the targets. So I spare little expense when it comes to guns, glass, and ammo. Competing in base seems pointless in my situation, as I have the means to buy the nicer rigs. When I miss, I never blame the gun!
    ROtC rifle team is still the exact same.. that’s why I’m looking to get her into some other form of real shooting.. NRL22 is vastly different and why I’m not ready to go all out yet but want to go far enough to give her a chance.. she’s got younger brothers so all else fails I get two more tries.. but also why I’m not 100% dedicated to NRL22 just yet either.. any form of benchrest.. bullseye, silhouette etc are all avenues closer to imop what she’s already doing. Hence why I want to push her a little to try NRL22 but still have the others to fall back on and try if she feels overwhelmed..

    I’ve looked a lot at the b14r’s and if I were going to go all out for her what you describe for your daughter is the setup I’d be looking for for her.. the b14 is a reasonable point for such frames shooters.. the cost of a vudoo you can buy several reputable firearms and upgrade them as they progress.. but generally speaking vudoo a and especially rimx as everyone keeps trying to hit me over the head with which I frankly rules out in the first posting get way to heavy way to quick. Especially when looking to get them fairly balanced.. I appreciate your response.. it’s one of the few honest ones I think I’ve seen that isn’t a fan boy of X or Y variant they likely don’t even own themselves or have any experience with..

    I do have one question though.. apples to oranges at equal prices.. why did you decide to get her a b14r vs say a 457 at one and couple upgrades or even a 457 precision with the chassis, match chamber and Carnot bull barrel.. all three coming to the same price out the door less optic etc but one being a full scale full action trainer and the others built on the micro actions..

    I’ll be honest for the price of what all this will be I’d rather put together a solid center fire rifle in 223 which would be way more accurate, reliable and cheaper overall and same weight.. I just know my daughter and although she’s not timid to shoot a 357 small frame or punch the center out of targets at 15-25 yards with a micro 9mm pistol when it comes to rifles even an AR had been a little intimidating for her mentally for some reason.. hence why I’m looking at the NRL22 setups for her.. tbh I think it’s the report more then anything for her but either way it’s a mental block yet to be overtaken..
     
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    Rick Bland

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    I think you're worried about weight a little to much. Unless she is doing positional shooting it shouldn't be an issue. Like I posted above, my buddies daughter shot her first NRLx match recently using his vudoo in an envy chassis with weights and a vortex razor. She did well, is about five feet tall and I'd bet she's under 100 lbs.
    I am worried about weight cause I know she already has concerns with a 6lb ar most times (although mental not physically) but a bolt gun is a little easier to balance while being modestly heavy so that it doesn’t feel so heavy at first.. it’s not what I’m overly concerned with it’s what I know from 6 years of her shooting she has phycological mental block issues with.. to add I also know day one her 9yo brother is going to want to be involved.. it’s not me overthinking things it’s me wanting to have a decent starting point so she’s comfortable and can overcome her own bias in terms of weight..
     
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    Rick Bland

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    Ok hear me out here.. I’m fairly set on a 457 at this point and upgrading it.. it’s something that can be handed down from her to her brother and then to his brother years and years down the road.. if and when she is fully vested in something I can then entertain a rimx or vudoo for her or whatever she likes or move her to center fire rifles..

    So this leaves me with 4 further questions..

    1) do I go b14r

    2) what I’m leaning towards.. a 457 at one which can be modestly built to improve upon but at least has an ok chassis and action assembly..

    3) go with a 457 precision with full match chamber and chassis which at same price as a b14r just seems a little over the top but would be cheaper and easier to upgrade on a micro action.. right or wrong the wooden stock does speak to me lol..

    4) get a cheap variant of a 457 to get action, throw it in a chassis, upgrade the barrel along the way of progression and at some point the trigger too… and still be in the area of a b14r or precision 457 price wise but better performance.. but have no idea what a good model to do this with would be tbh..

    Tbh I’m really leaning hard on the at one right now.. I can pillar bed the stock/action and scope base… and at worst upgrade the barrel and trigger but incrementally as she or her brothers progress.. all while having something that checks most of the boxes day one.. this seems to be the most reasonable answer to me right now.. it’s no rimx or vudoo but at a lower cost will outperform most shooter. As I see it I can have better then b14r capability at around the same overall price and still on a kid friendly micro action..

    I mean let’s be honest here.. we are arguing over .1 in group size in the best of conditions at a cost difference of 2x on average.. does a first time competitive shooter gain anything from a .1 advantage in a comp? A slight wind change, miscalculation, bad positioning or trigger pull is going to cost them a lot more then that. So I fail to see why a rimx or vudoo assuming you get one properly built/functioning is of any benefit outside the top 10% or less of shooters..

    I also think I clearly stated in the opening thread that neither of these were being considered.. the top tier of my considerations was a b14r.. for the cost difference they just don’t make logical sense given the difference in performance.

    So please if your trying to be helpful give proper responses pertaining to the post. Nothing against these platforms but I don’t see where they hold any value in said use tbh.. they are over priced per performance of what can be achieved for less. That in no way takes away from what they can be but I’d rather spend 30 hours of my own time building something at X cost then buy something that isn’t perfect by any standard at 2x the cost. If you’re being honest it’s just not reasonable Imop and experience with other shooting.
     

    skotydontno

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    i would take a 457 over a bergara. I saw three bolts break in half at nrl22 nationals last year. even with reps from begara at the match all they said was "yea thats where they all break" but did nothing to help the people that weekend. travis from nrl pulled his bolt and lent it out so the kid could finish the match.
     
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    littlepod

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    I would take a 457 over a B14R any day of the week. The 457 factory trigger is easy to adjust can a clean break and is a generally nice trigger w/o having to upgrade. If you're okay with single stage triggers, I wouldn't change it. The B14R trigger needs a lot of work.

    The B14R bolt cycling is clunky. It's just clunky feeling. Maybe you don't know what you don't know, but the CZ 457 is fantastic.

    If the wooden turkish stock stands out to you, I think the CZ 457 MTR is the way to go, and then you can just get her like an KRG Bravo / XLR Element or something as a low cost chassis investment for adjustability, and you'll always have that MTR for yourself later (say you go the path of a bare action and you get a custom barrel later).

    Also the B14R, put into other actions has the same feeding issues that the Vudoo might encounter if not adjusted properly, I've watched a few people struggle trying to get their B14R in the KRG setups to work.
     
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    Masojoh

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    I lived outside of the states for 2 years from July 2019 until June 2021. So I was not in the country when the racial protests kicked off, for 18 months of COVID, etc. I would shop online, and look for deals on guns and ammo. I am lucky enough to have a great friend who kept my gun safe in his garage. He also let me ship an ungodly amount of packages to him (around 30,000 rounds of various 22lr - mostly match grade). I have another buddy who is an ffl, and he held the guns.

    During the time after the bug bit me, I bought a new 457 varmint precision chassis. That was the first 22lr precision rifle I bought. The first rifle we shot at an nrl22 match was a loaner Ruger RPR - and we all 3 shot it in that match. I knew I wanted one to adjust for each of us, yet the RPR did not have a great reputation for out of the box accuracy. I liked the CZ as it had the adjustable butt stock, and the ability to run an arca rail. The AT ONE is adjustable too, and both had great factory triggers and accuracy. Honestly, it was a toss up on which one I found on sale first. The chassis won.


    I then bought a Kidd, as my girls had zero experience with bolt rifles. They shoot a 22lr SBR when we go to our local uspsa matches. I thought it would be more fun for them to shoot a semi auto. I found a full Kidd build for sale - albeit an ultralight weight barrel, and got a beautiful chassis from PDC custom for it once I realized my younger daughter was in love with it.

    I found a B14R on auction at gunbroker with a scope and Timney trigger already installed. That made the third rifle. And the internet somehow convinced me, before I even laid my hands on any of those rifles, that I needed a Vudoo and an MPA chassis for it. Being locked down in a third world country for months caused me to spend a lot of money.

    I honestly expected the B14R to be my backup, and that my older daughter would run the CZ. But she loves the feel of the Bergara, so the CZ stays on the bench. I also have a new Kidd that I’m going to shoot tomorrow at our local nrl22 match.

    I have sent my Vudoo and new Kidd super grade to the Lapua test center. My Vudoo shoots 5/8” groups at 100. It really is incredible. A couple of months back, I had my daughter shoot some of the lot tested ammo through her B14R instead of the wolf match target she had been shooting and getting about 1.2-1.5 MOA at 100. We were able to get sub MOA groups at 100. So… she now shoots that lot too. I am 100% sold on the Lapua lot testing process. I bought a case of center x for under $1,200 last month (tested at Lapua, ordered through good shooting inc).
     

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    chevy_man

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    The last 2 matches there were a bunch of malfunctions, including CZ. The first one was a covered square range which shouldn't have been an issue. The second was a farm/ranch match with wind/dust. Everything but the Vudoo/Rimx were choking and i had to even wipe down the vudoo bolt after 150 rounds to make sure it picked up the next round.

    Why would anyone with a vudoo run rimx mags? Makes zero sense since they make their own dedicated mags that run and run and run,

    Guys who shoot in nice weather and conditions don't know what they don't know. Run them hard in bad weather and it quickly reveals what works and what doesn't.

    No you don't "need" them to win but its kind ironic that the leader boards at any remotely competitive match is nothing but them. These are called hints.

    99% of the malfunctions I see at matches are magazine related. Guy will struggle and finally change mags and issues go away. There will be the odd guy who hasn't cleaned his bentz chambered 10/22 that will start sticking.

    I clean my mags when they start getting greasy or dirty. Wipe the bolt down before a match, check the firing pin regularly, etc. Really goes a long ways towards reliability.

    I think the leaderboards are misleading to a degree. The top scorers are generally those who are putting in the effort and $. They're the ones who will pay to maybe get an extra point and ensure the rifle didn't leave anything on the table.
     
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    6.5SH

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    99% of the malfunctions I see at matches are magazine related. Guy will struggle and finally change mags and issues go away. There will be the odd guy who hasn't cleaned his bentz chambered 10/22 that will start sticking.

    I clean my mags when they start getting greasy or dirty. Wipe the bolt down before a match, check the firing pin regularly, etc. Really goes a long ways towards reliability.

    I think the leaderboards are misleading to a degree. The top scorers are generally those who are putting in the effort and $. They're the ones who will pay to maybe get an extra point and ensure the rifle didn't leave anything on the table.
    With my Tikka have had the weird stand the round up vertical in the mag issue. I guess is more of a bolt manipulation issue but I'm sure the magazine design contributes.

    The one undeniable thing the Vudoo gets you is the ability to safely dry fire with no snap cap. If you are spending that much and are serious you'll be practicing hard as well. That effort is worth more than just an extra point.
     
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    GTOJOSH

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    I teach our 4h club kids in my area (and have gotten alot of help from here in the past which I'm grateful for).
    First off, thanks for seeing your daughter's potential and passion for our continuation of the sport, and helping her hone those skills.
    Now, My recommendation is this- take her to as many of all kind of 22 matches you can find. Show up early, be friendly, and tell folks, competitors, range officers, organizers, etc that she is wanting to see what is available, and what other folks use to better understand what she may want.
    We all know what will happen next, and when she has tried fitting, holding, fondling all the different guns handed to her, she will have a better idea of what is too heavy, what fits, etc.
    I like the cz. My son likes his ruger rpr, my daughter her savage, and we had a kid who couldn't hit a beachball with the 10/22 bull barrel he had, but shot the lights out with my henry lever action.
    She is probably built differently than you. (My daughter is too thank God). If you want to show her you support Her, not just her doing what you like, all the more better. And you may be surprised that she wants a savage rascal.
    For now.
     

    Rick Bland

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    I teach our 4h club kids in my area (and have gotten alot of help from here in the past which I'm grateful for).
    First off, thanks for seeing your daughter's potential and passion for our continuation of the sport, and helping her hone those skills.
    Now, My recommendation is this- take her to as many of all kind of 22 matches you can find. Show up early, be friendly, and tell folks, competitors, range officers, organizers, etc that she is wanting to see what is available, and what other folks use to better understand what she may want.
    We all know what will happen next, and when she has tried fitting, holding, fondling all the different guns handed to her, she will have a better idea of what is too heavy, what fits, etc.
    I like the cz. My son likes his ruger rpr, my daughter her savage, and we had a kid who couldn't hit a beachball with the 10/22 bull barrel he had, but shot the lights out with my henry lever action.
    She is probably built differently than you. (My daughter is too thank God). If you want to show her you support Her, not just her doing what you like, all the more better. And you may be surprised that she wants a savage rascal.
    For now.
    This was my initial take on the subject however 22 matches of any sort are still fairly rare here in Florida.. so I’m kind facing having to get and set up a rifle that can work for many different things when she determines what it is she likes.. sad to say between what we have available regionally, and having to keep in consideration that her brothers are not far behind her I need a one size fits all type platform.. but I fully hear what you’re saying and you are correct in taking her to a few different events to watch would be more appropriate. I’ve reached out to local clubs and some have offered to provide her a rifle to compete not just watch. However after doing so I think they changed the phone number etc lol.. I coach youths in sports. I’m aware there are those who coach or help cause they want to and enjoy seeing a youth progress.. but also understand 9-10 are more about offering and not following through..