I overheard an argument at a gun store today about straw purchases and am now curious myself. Seemed like someone was planning on buying a rifle strictly for the purpose of trading that rifle to someone else for a rifle they were wanting to trade. Would that be a straw purchases?
- Thread starter KACasauers
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Yes. Unless it's a relative.
No, unless the 2nd person is not allowed to buy the gun themselves either because of their age or being a felon. Kyle Rittenhouse's AR is a perfect example of a straw purchase.
Not unless they are prohibited from owning firearms or are specifically avoiding having their name involved in the transaction, according to the alphabet boys
Please explain I must have missed something??
That sounds incredibly shady and I'd not be willing to do any business with someone wanting to be involved with any of that.
And, if it's not a straw purchase, it's close enough that a court case would probably be involved in deciding it.
And, if it's not a straw purchase, it's close enough that a court case would probably be involved in deciding it.
So party A is selling/trading a Colt Python and will only trade for a Christianson Arms 338 Lapua.
Party B legally buys a 338 CA Lapua specifically to trade for the Python..
As long as theres no universal background check and both parties can legally own the firearm, I see no reason they should not be able to legally make the swap. I wouldnt even call it a straw purchase, its just a business move.
Party B legally buys a 338 CA Lapua specifically to trade for the Python..
As long as theres no universal background check and both parties can legally own the firearm, I see no reason they should not be able to legally make the swap. I wouldnt even call it a straw purchase, its just a business move.
They can but you may think there’s a reason he doesn’t just sell the python and buy the CA himself if there’s no concern over legally purchasing it. Why have another guy do it unless it geographically made sense or possibly a “power move”
Maybe no ones buying Pythons at the time. There could be several reasons. As ling as all parties are legal....They can but you may think there’s a reason he doesn’t just sell the python and buy the CA himself if there’s no concern over legally purchasing it. Why have another guy do it unless it geographically made sense or possibly a “power move”
Not sure how to explain in more detail but, a straw purchase of a gun is when someone buys a gun from an FFL with the intent on doing a private transfer to someone else who otherwise can't buy the gun themselves. Whether it be legal issues, financial, or age. While it is illegal to do, it's not really enforced. Parents make straw purchases all the time when they buy their kids their first gun.
I want to say a "straw purchase test" is person A is buying the firearm for person B with NO trade or acceptance of any other "monies".
IF I'm trading firearm A bought by myself for firearm B from person B who bought for themselves...not a straw purchase.
Local laws are going to make the biggest obstacle. If there's no "private sales" laws....then who knows what is happening??
IF I'm trading firearm A bought by myself for firearm B from person B who bought for themselves...not a straw purchase.
Local laws are going to make the biggest obstacle. If there's no "private sales" laws....then who knows what is happening??
Even if a federal court wouldn't rule that it's a straw purchase, there's a risk a federal court would rule it violates the laws that pertain to the 4473 when the buyer swears "the gun isn't being bought for someone else".
One can buy a firearm as a gift for anyone who isn't prohibited, but that's another can of worms because the ATF and/or the courts might not consider a "gift" and a "trade" the same things.
One can buy a firearm as a gift for anyone who isn't prohibited, but that's another can of worms because the ATF and/or the courts might not consider a "gift" and a "trade" the same things.
If A owns the gun, and B buys it for himself ...but with the intention of making a LEGAL trade, I dont see its a straw purchase in any way.
I think it is intended to prohibit illegal transfers. Knowing the ATF, it could get you in hot water.
Thats why ATF should be the name of a convenience store.
Is ATF similar to ATM? You all and you acronyms!
Yes but how was kyles gun a straw purchase?
His friend purchased it for him specifically because Rittenhouse was still a minor and unable to purchase it himself. It's well within the definition of a straw purchase.
Man Who Straw Purchased Rifle for Kyle Rittenhouse Takes a Plea Deal, Avoids Jail - The Truth About Guns
◀Previous Post Next Post▶ From the Associated Press . . . The man who bought Kyle Rittenhouse an assault-style rifle when he was only 17 has agreed to plead no contest to contributing to the delinquency of a minor, a non-criminal citation, and avoid convictions on the two felonies he’d been...
www.thetruthaboutguns.com I read 21a on the 4473 as this is not kosher. Of course that is me and my understanding of it. I would think it would be pretty easy to argue that you weren't buying it for yourself. The ffl has a lot to lose as well. So I'd fully expect him to side of covering his ass.
Only if you're stupid enough to blab about it at the counter.
If you buy a gun, and decide to make it part of a trade later, as long as you're following the law with respect to guns changing hands in the trade it's not really a straw purchase in my mind.
That's you selling or trading your property for something you want.
Now if you never wanted or intended to buy it for yourself and you're stupid enough to be vocal about that or skirt the law in the trade and wind up putting a firearm in the hands of a prohibited person I'd say you're a dumbass and deserve what you get
If you buy a gun, and decide to make it part of a trade later, as long as you're following the law with respect to guns changing hands in the trade it's not really a straw purchase in my mind.
That's you selling or trading your property for something you want.
Now if you never wanted or intended to buy it for yourself and you're stupid enough to be vocal about that or skirt the law in the trade and wind up putting a firearm in the hands of a prohibited person I'd say you're a dumbass and deserve what you get
Guy shouldn’t be sold the gun. Too stupid to keep his mouth shut and make it weird. GTFO my gun shop.
I work in the firearm industry, and have asked this question to an ATF agent, and it is a straw purchase if the person he was going to give/trade it to is not an immediate family member. The 4473 posted above and the definition of the question says so. Directly from the agents mouth, what they do after they purchase the gun is their business, the buyer should have kept his mouth shut, when he told the employee ,that it made it a no go for the gun store he told them he was going to lie on the 4473. I don't understand why people talk so much.
This is correct. You bought a gun. Later, you decided to trade with a friend who really wanted the gun you have and you really wanted the gun he has. Then that is a new transaction. But yes, Rittenhouse feces aside, the 4473 says that you cannot purchase this gun if you are not the intended person to tranfer it to.
So, you could not go in with your nephew and you buy the gun and he fills out the 4473.
It is a human frailty. Officer Bruch, an investigator for the Virginia Beach Police Department points that out. People tend to be honest and talk way too much.
God loves stupid people. He made so many of them.
They don’t care who pays for the gun, they care that the person filling out the 4473 is the person who is receiving it.
A straw purchase is when some hoochie that hasn’t been convicted of anything buys her felon baby daddy a gun. She takes possession of it then hands it to him to stick in his ass crack.
I don’t see the situation in question as a straw purchase but I’m no lawyer and the ATF are fags. Dude buys a gun, fills out the 4473, receives said gun. Then in another transaction both dudes swap guns and fill out 4473s. They are both receiving the guns they filled out the form for. I understand that this would probably be muddied by .gov fags in a free state where you can transfer between private parties without any records.
New 4473’s ask specifically if you intend to get rid of the firearm. With the new questions, there’s no way I’d buy a firearm with the specific intention of trading it off.
I often think of creating a thread just for posting the write ups that get submitted to TN NICs/TBI from various dealers around the state. There are some real gems out there, the methiness in the old Volunteer state is strong with ‘tards trying to straw purchase
I just filled out a 4473 today. There are new questions that specifically ask about buying a firearm with the intent of dispossessing it.
I saw it last week when I picked up a new Mk4 pistol. That question put gifting guns into the no-zone.
Well, it put gifting a gun to someone that would answer any of the disqualifying questions with “yes” as no-zone.
If you plan to dispossess the firearm to someone who is not otherwise prohibited, you can truthfully answer 21b as ‘no.’
If the person you are selling/gifting/dispossessing is not going to use the firearm in a felony, you can truthfully answer 22c as ‘no.’
It’s asking if you have intent to purchase it for a prohibited person as described in question 21(c-m) or an illegal alien. Doesn’t mean you can’t purchase with intent to trade, you’re still originally buying it for yourself. And you can still gift firearms as long as the recipient can legally possess it.
Yeah, we’re on the same page. See the post above yours…
It's asking simply to try to trip people up and jerk them around, because it's intentionally confusing and nobody who's doing that is going to say yes.
If person A already has a gun, and person B already has a gun, what difference does it make? That's the background system I want, If you bring a gun in with you, no background check. Why bother when you already have one and could be doing bad things with that one if you really wanted.
pre-dating for the inevitable necro-thread revival:
9/01/25. it's illegal to buy or own a gun. most of us have been sent to the gulag, except for the 35% of posters who are glowies. all of this is splitting hairs.
9/01/25. it's illegal to buy or own a gun. most of us have been sent to the gulag, except for the 35% of posters who are glowies. all of this is splitting hairs.
Why on earth would you even talk about it if that was the intention? Man people are retarded
One gray area I came across that the fella at the counter of a Sportsman’s Warehouse wouldn’t let me do was pay for my step-daughter buying a Glock with her filling out the 4473.
She had one of my spares for a good while because of some shady characters she was working with as a social worker stalking her house, so I lent her the handgun until she could get her own. After well over a year and her having another baby with money still being tight, I wanted my gun back so her birthday present became me buying her one of her own, and I wanted her to put everything in her name to learn the process and see just how simple it really is. The store clerk said that’s still a straw purchase, but I could get a gift card at customer service for the exact amount, give that to her, and she could complete the sale that way. Seemed a bit of a stretch to me, but I didn’t feel like arguing it.
With as combative as the ATF can be towards FFLs, I don’t blame anyone for erring on the side of caution when it comes to gray areas.
She had one of my spares for a good while because of some shady characters she was working with as a social worker stalking her house, so I lent her the handgun until she could get her own. After well over a year and her having another baby with money still being tight, I wanted my gun back so her birthday present became me buying her one of her own, and I wanted her to put everything in her name to learn the process and see just how simple it really is. The store clerk said that’s still a straw purchase, but I could get a gift card at customer service for the exact amount, give that to her, and she could complete the sale that way. Seemed a bit of a stretch to me, but I didn’t feel like arguing it.
With as combative as the ATF can be towards FFLs, I don’t blame anyone for erring on the side of caution when it comes to gray areas.
A purchase to give a firearm as a gift is not a straw purchase.
- Nov 3, 2010
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^^^^^^^^^^ Beat me to it, I can buy a gun to gift to my kids and it is not a straw purchase.
It technically is if the person you're gifting it to can't buy the gun themselves.
Welcome to erf.Why on earth would you even talk about it if that was the intention? Man people are retarded
When I was in highschool, I worked in a convenience store. The TABC (Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission) would run "stings" using minors that had gotten popped for MIP (Minor in Possession). A plain clothes cop would come up to the counter with a sixer of something, and an obvious minor that obviously didn't want to be there. He would hand the minor the sixer and some cash. The minor would attempt to buy the sixer. If you (as the seller) fell for this obvious set up, you got to see the inside of a police car.
I would not be surprised if the BATFE ran similar sting operations. Your story has the unfortunate impression of the canonical straw man purchase. "Dude with a record wants a gun but can't buy it. He get's his girlfriend/niece/whoever without a record to buy the gun for him. He's there to make sure she buys the right one.
I was told years ago by a gun store worker that they were instructed to be extra wary of women buying guns with men in tow. My wife and I were shopping for a deer rifle for her. She filled out the 4473. I pulled my check card out of my wallet- we have a joint account. The worker said that I couldn't pay for the gun- no amount of explanation would suffice. That the card came out of my wallet was sufficient to disqualify it for purchase. My wife paid with her card, tied to the same account...
Its a FEDERAL FORM. You can't LIE on a federal form...Why on earth would you even talk about it if that was the intention? Man people are retarded
The clerk was right. The better option would have been to simply give her the money beforehand and she just pays and transfers and in addition, like the Pot Lawyers say, STFU.
This advice is good, in general.
RMSS, <groan> That sounds more like a minimum wage gun counter guy that doesn't know any better, and is erring on the side of caution. As mentioned previously, what matters is who fills out the 4473, not who pays for it. Yeah, I get it. Kiss the ring, buy the gift card and drive on (I would have done the same thing). But that idiot was...well, an idiot.
Gun counter idiots really piss me off. Smdh...
The guy at the sportsman's warehouse did the correct thing to save you both some potential headaches.
I think they still do that in places. Im 73 and here in Oklahoma, half the time I go into the sotore to buy beer or wine they card me.Sometimes I'll check the whold cart and then ask them to approve the alcohol. If they ask for an ID I say I dont have it and walk away. With hard liquor its every time.
I don’t criticize their caution, but here’s the gray area. I was paying for the firearm as it was a birthday gift to her. She is legally allowed to own a firearm (choking as I type that crap), and she even does regular random urine screens for her job so it’s not like we don’t know what our adult daughter does on the side. All in all, she’s legal to buy her own gun, as am I and I was carrying at the time.
Had I filled out the 4473, paid for it, and then right in front of the dealer handed it to her saying “Happy birthday, sorry I didn’t have time to wrap this gift to you.”, it would still have been 100% legal because I am the actual transferee in the FFL transaction, buying the handgun as a gift and then giving it to someone who is a resident of the same state as I am who is not prohibited from firearm possession and ownership is a perfectly legal post sale transfer both federally as well as in Wyoming.
So really, was the dealer correct in anything other than being cautious of being caught in a potential ATF entrapment sting operation? I may not wear khakis and polo shirts, but the decades of professional gun toting are evident in my appearance and demeanor so maybe they thought I was a bearded fed.
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