- Thread starter AZgeek
- Start date
Well another shitty weather day that impacted my results. As luck had it, had to deal with a storm blowing through as I settled in to testing. Dark clouds over this project seems to be the norm!
Couple of verified data points:
Rather than packing it up due to the bad conditions I decided to stretch things out to about 140 yards, only shooting the Savage and only shooting the HV rounds comparing them to the factory CCI Velocitors. Wind was bad in a 90 degree left to right direction clearly shown by the CCI's:
After sifting through all the initial v2 target results, grouping appears to fall into these ranges in edge-to-edge in inches:
50 to 53 yards 0.88 - 1.61
63 to 65 yards 1.70 - 2.02
100 to 118 yards 2.05 - 2.70
140 yards 6.25 (3.59 w/o flyers)
The final builds and testing of version 2a HV will commence this week. Really hoping I can get some relief from the wind next outing. The final 2a test rounds will include the following:
Testing distances will be at 50, 100 and 150 yards.
Couple of verified data points:
- Factory loads - My Savage B22 Compact clearly likes CCI Velocitors the best
- My Savage B22 Compact clearly shoots the GDS HV better than the LV version
- The Anschutz 54 does not shoot either GDS versions very well
Rather than packing it up due to the bad conditions I decided to stretch things out to about 140 yards, only shooting the Savage and only shooting the HV rounds comparing them to the factory CCI Velocitors. Wind was bad in a 90 degree left to right direction clearly shown by the CCI's:
After sifting through all the initial v2 target results, grouping appears to fall into these ranges in edge-to-edge in inches:
50 to 53 yards 0.88 - 1.61
63 to 65 yards 1.70 - 2.02
100 to 118 yards 2.05 - 2.70
140 yards 6.25 (3.59 w/o flyers)
The final builds and testing of version 2a HV will commence this week. Really hoping I can get some relief from the wind next outing. The final 2a test rounds will include the following:
- No reused, pulled bullets
- Lighter application of wax
- Revised crimp
Testing distances will be at 50, 100 and 150 yards.
Attachments
Been a while since my last update as a result of my testing screw-up early on with version 2a. Long story.....
The main issue was that pure lead, with minimal exposed sabot, did not meet the minimum penetration distance of 50 yards for soft body armor. We also wanted to caveat the body armor test results based on some (not all) of real world variables. Some pictures and explanations included below. Version 2a did however pass penetration tests on sloped windshield glass and car doors tests but we wanted to retain more mass after going through car doors for example; another contributing factor for the change.
What we now have is Version 2b - a 33.8 to 34.0 grain alloy bullet with greater sabot exposure:
I may have also figured out the root cause of the “flyers” previously documented. It will not take much time to prove or disprove my theory. Also, crimp strength is no longer an issue!
The body armor retesting was extensive. Two pictures to illustrate our findings. The first is the result of a fully secured 3a vest. Smoked it at 53 years. 2 for 2:
Same test but with a level 2a but NOT properly secured:
The lower two shots penetrated as the bottom of the vest was secured under the weight of the clay. The flop at the top produced mixed results even with a lesser grade vest. Should have also done an angled test but this proves there is variability just from how a vest might be secured to one's body.
Thought I had found a source for primed, virgin brass and purchased 2k pieces. Tested it this week. Epic fail and unusable for my purposes. Without a brass source, there is no way to commercialize this as a product. With the bullet composition finslized, I can concentrate on the brass search and the accurizing of this version at my leisure.
So my pet project is nearing its end. There will not be a Version 3 as there is little more to be derived or understood as it related to this POC. The work here has proved what we at GDS already knew was possible. If work continues, it will be predicated on winning a military contract for which we are securely in the running!
I’ll know more in early August.
AZ out.
The main issue was that pure lead, with minimal exposed sabot, did not meet the minimum penetration distance of 50 yards for soft body armor. We also wanted to caveat the body armor test results based on some (not all) of real world variables. Some pictures and explanations included below. Version 2a did however pass penetration tests on sloped windshield glass and car doors tests but we wanted to retain more mass after going through car doors for example; another contributing factor for the change.
What we now have is Version 2b - a 33.8 to 34.0 grain alloy bullet with greater sabot exposure:
I may have also figured out the root cause of the “flyers” previously documented. It will not take much time to prove or disprove my theory. Also, crimp strength is no longer an issue!
The body armor retesting was extensive. Two pictures to illustrate our findings. The first is the result of a fully secured 3a vest. Smoked it at 53 years. 2 for 2:
Same test but with a level 2a but NOT properly secured:
The lower two shots penetrated as the bottom of the vest was secured under the weight of the clay. The flop at the top produced mixed results even with a lesser grade vest. Should have also done an angled test but this proves there is variability just from how a vest might be secured to one's body.
Thought I had found a source for primed, virgin brass and purchased 2k pieces. Tested it this week. Epic fail and unusable for my purposes. Without a brass source, there is no way to commercialize this as a product. With the bullet composition finslized, I can concentrate on the brass search and the accurizing of this version at my leisure.
So my pet project is nearing its end. There will not be a Version 3 as there is little more to be derived or understood as it related to this POC. The work here has proved what we at GDS already knew was possible. If work continues, it will be predicated on winning a military contract for which we are securely in the running!
I’ll know more in early August.
AZ out.
I am always so freakin excited to see your new posts @AZgeek
I wish I still lived in AZ, I’d come visit and offer any help (not much, maybe just beer) that I was able to.
I want to run some of these loads so bad. I think the question may have been asked but I can’t find the post.
Are these loads going to be safe for pistols?And also for 22lr suppressors, specifically the Sparrow? Thanks
I wish I still lived in AZ, I’d come visit and offer any help (not much, maybe just beer) that I was able to.
I want to run some of these loads so bad. I think the question may have been asked but I can’t find the post.
Are these loads going to be safe for pistols?And also for 22lr suppressors, specifically the Sparrow? Thanks
Just beer is always welcome! Part of the version 2b development included a transition to another type of pulled brass. I went from Federal Premium Match (which is way too expensive to just to pull apart) to the non-powder charged Aguila Colibri. Cheaper and maybe a tad safer to disassemble.
Found out the hard way that not all brass & paste is created equal. Had one blow out part of my magazine clip and bounce up from the table into my face. Stung a bit but no broken skin. What's the old saying "always fun until someone gets an eye knocked out" lol. Max load is now .2 grains lower. Still at a low 1700 fps level.
Here's a picture of the two types of pulled cases and the blown-out one. The Aguila has the red paste:
Thankfully this is the only mishap to date on this project. Still want to help?
To answer your question version 2a LV was shot through a friends suppressed rifle. Not a real test with just 10 round but all went well. He wants me to make him subsonic rounds and is happy to be the guinea pig tester for this end of the spectrum. Target velocity will be 1050 fps and I'll also re-test out of my own Sig P22 handgun.
Found out the hard way that not all brass & paste is created equal. Had one blow out part of my magazine clip and bounce up from the table into my face. Stung a bit but no broken skin. What's the old saying "always fun until someone gets an eye knocked out" lol. Max load is now .2 grains lower. Still at a low 1700 fps level.
Here's a picture of the two types of pulled cases and the blown-out one. The Aguila has the red paste:
Thankfully this is the only mishap to date on this project. Still want to help?
To answer your question version 2a LV was shot through a friends suppressed rifle. Not a real test with just 10 round but all went well. He wants me to make him subsonic rounds and is happy to be the guinea pig tester for this end of the spectrum. Target velocity will be 1050 fps and I'll also re-test out of my own Sig P22 handgun.
I swear this is one of the coolest things on here
Just remember; Colibri has a single priming charge. Super Colibri is a doubled priming charge (no bueno for your needs).
Didn't even know there was such a thing but I''l steer clear of it.
Thanks for the heads-up sir!
Once you are all done and in production, what I'd love to do is get some of y our projectiles and try loading them for .22TCM and see how they do out of my pistols and rifle. 2000fps and 2700fps ish
We just had an internal discussion about other calibers. Well it was really my bitch session about pursuing this in 22lr! In the end its all about the delivery system. 25 Auto or say a more modern caliber like .22TCM you mentioned don't have fully automatic, proven delivery systems for military use. .22TCM is a jacketed pistol bullet if memory serves me correctly. I've done extensive work prototyping and adapting jacketed bullets so this would not take much effort.
Anyway I'll stop rambling on about other platforms. Back two 22lr. @billmeek and I were chatting behind the scene about my flyer issue. My current theory is that its lube fouling from the Rooster lube I've been using since day one. Observations, patterns and velocity data from previous testing indicate i might be on the right track.
Clearly my projectiles do not mimic "normal" 22lr bullet designs. I have at least twice the bearing surface and no lube groves. On top of that, I'm pushing the velocity envelope. So with all that said I've come up with a new, two step lubrication method. I've tested each method independently so I kinda know what to expect. It produces a gray film that I hope will be much better suited for this application.
Coated vs. non-coated side-by-side:
We'll see what happens.
While this is all fun and games, Memorial Day is a solemn reminder that those who faced death and lived, and those who did not, made our fun possible. My deepest gratitude for those following who have served and condolences for your losses of fallen friends.
Anyway I'll stop rambling on about other platforms. Back two 22lr. @billmeek and I were chatting behind the scene about my flyer issue. My current theory is that its lube fouling from the Rooster lube I've been using since day one. Observations, patterns and velocity data from previous testing indicate i might be on the right track.
Clearly my projectiles do not mimic "normal" 22lr bullet designs. I have at least twice the bearing surface and no lube groves. On top of that, I'm pushing the velocity envelope. So with all that said I've come up with a new, two step lubrication method. I've tested each method independently so I kinda know what to expect. It produces a gray film that I hope will be much better suited for this application.
Coated vs. non-coated side-by-side:
We'll see what happens.
While this is all fun and games, Memorial Day is a solemn reminder that those who faced death and lived, and those who did not, made our fun possible. My deepest gratitude for those following who have served and condolences for your losses of fallen friends.
From my understanding, the difference between Colibrí and Super Colibrí is that Colibrí is the primer only while Super Colibrí has a small amount of powder.
So messing around with HBN tumbling for these rounds and ran into an unexpected, but cool result. While my rotary tumbling may be too violent, duration too long (one hour) and too much HBN, it did produce a desirable result. The sharp edges are gone! Clearly the alloy dust mixed with the HBN and stuck to the rounds. The second picture shows the rounds after a quick paper towel wipe:
So I think next step will be an acetone clean and a delicate re-application of HBN. Shoot um up and see what happens.
So I think next step will be an acetone clean and a delicate re-application of HBN. Shoot um up and see what happens.
Hi,
I am pretty sure you are still within the velocity restrictions of most polymer style coatings as most of them are good for up to 2k/fps MV.
Although I am not sure how that would affect your insert...maybe just coat from ass end up to the "neck" per say and leave insert/tip uncoated.
Sincerely,
Theis
I am pretty sure you are still within the velocity restrictions of most polymer style coatings as most of them are good for up to 2k/fps MV.
Although I am not sure how that would affect your insert...maybe just coat from ass end up to the "neck" per say and leave insert/tip uncoated.
Sincerely,
Theis
I've been struggling with the idea of leaving the heel un-lubed. Not sure what they do in real 22lr manufacturing. Probably too much trouble to dick around with in the long run. I did wash off the test subjects with an alcohol and hand dry. They are still very slippery! Now doing a simple re-application of HBN by hand, gently.
Where is Kicken45 with the beer ? Still have one free hand.
Where is Kicken45 with the beer ? Still have one free hand.
Well played!
Ruin? No. Complicate? Possibly. <grin>
You might be able to. If I tried it, I definitely be VERY careful even though 22LR is a lot less dangerous outside of a chamber. I don't remember where off-hand, but I have read where someone applied hex boron nitride to live 22LR rounds by shaking the container by hand rather than using a tumbler.
<insert final Jeopardy music while searching>
I didn't remember it being here on the Sniper's Hide!
Something to consider with HBN coated bullets is that the lower friction may decrease pressure causing you to have lower velocities. It wouldn't be surprising if you have to change your powder load values.
Well maybe not an epic fail in terms learning. I've got a quick, more delicate vibration tumbler process in place now. I'm using both HBN and my special lube sauce. Tomorrow's testing will focus on accuracy and elimination of those "flyers" - assuming my root cause theory around that is correct.
This lubrication approach must also prevents any lead fouling. May have to shoot more than the 65 rounds on hand to get an answer on that. I'll be shooting out to at least 100 yards so I'll also be able to confirm the drop in inches. Should be about two inches based on previous results with 35 grain weight.
I'm really hoping all this works out tomorrow. Pretty optimistic about good results this time around!
Forgot to mention that I did free-float my Savage 22B test rifle. There was a plastic screw-on tray that the barrel rested on. Its now gone altogether. I replaced the magazine clip mechanism Savage was kind enough to provide at no cost and made sure the receiver screws were properly torqued to 18 inch pounds. Don't expect any accuracy improvements as a result, but who knows.
A hypothetical question for you Hiders:
Assuming I work through my remaining challenges and implement a few tweaks/changes to the bullet making process, would a kit for reloading our bullets be of interest? While certainly not trivial, everything I've learned and developed could be put to good use by the end-user given the cost prohibitive nature of pulling and preparing brass.
In the short term, just selling the projo's and a DYI kit makes the most sense financially IMHO. The kit would include all reloading items (shell holders & stems, crimp die, case belling, etc.) specific to the process I developed in-house. Most items are modified off-the shelf components but there are a few exceptions.
In the long term, GDS would continue to work through options to source or make the brass in-house. If successful, we could then make it available to re-loaders or offer fully loaded ammunition. The long term play depends on landing the deal I mentioned earlier. Our potential client is actually a country so the brass issue will be addressed one way or another.
Thoughts?
Assuming I work through my remaining challenges and implement a few tweaks/changes to the bullet making process, would a kit for reloading our bullets be of interest? While certainly not trivial, everything I've learned and developed could be put to good use by the end-user given the cost prohibitive nature of pulling and preparing brass.
In the short term, just selling the projo's and a DYI kit makes the most sense financially IMHO. The kit would include all reloading items (shell holders & stems, crimp die, case belling, etc.) specific to the process I developed in-house. Most items are modified off-the shelf components but there are a few exceptions.
In the long term, GDS would continue to work through options to source or make the brass in-house. If successful, we could then make it available to re-loaders or offer fully loaded ammunition. The long term play depends on landing the deal I mentioned earlier. Our potential client is actually a country so the brass issue will be addressed one way or another.
Thoughts?
Definitely. Ready to place an order when you are.
So I had a good day testing all things considered. I was out with a bunch of my retarded friends who created all kinds of issues in terms of formal testing. Our normal shooting spot where (we could shoot beyond 100 yards) was occupied by a bunch of campers so 50 yards was max for today.
Accuracy was in line with previous testing but without a single flyer! I'm coming to the conclusion that my stuff shoots about as good as any typical off-the-shelf product out of this gun. I shot six 5-shot GDS groups. All of which shot about the same.. I think one of the targets got accidentally tossed so only one to show you here:
I also did a water jug and a melon penetration test. It went through two jugs and stopped in the third. Pulled this out of the third:
Shot the watermelons twice (difs spots of course) where both melons were penetrated including a water jug behind them where both bullets were retrieved:
The cool part of these two test was the resulting perfect mushroom recovered. Weight retention's are 18.3, 18.8 and 18.8 grains:
So I'll head to the range this coming weekend and do the accuracy and chrono testing correctly without distractions. Looking good at this point!
Accuracy was in line with previous testing but without a single flyer! I'm coming to the conclusion that my stuff shoots about as good as any typical off-the-shelf product out of this gun. I shot six 5-shot GDS groups. All of which shot about the same.. I think one of the targets got accidentally tossed so only one to show you here:
I also did a water jug and a melon penetration test. It went through two jugs and stopped in the third. Pulled this out of the third:
Shot the watermelons twice (difs spots of course) where both melons were penetrated including a water jug behind them where both bullets were retrieved:
The cool part of these two test was the resulting perfect mushroom recovered. Weight retention's are 18.3, 18.8 and 18.8 grains:
So I'll head to the range this coming weekend and do the accuracy and chrono testing correctly without distractions. Looking good at this point!
Happy Fathers day to the dads out there! Gave myself a nice present today with the really positive results culminated in today's testing. Everything is now trending in the right direction. My HBN/secret sauce dip lubrication has exceeded my expectations. I no longer have that burt brown crap coming out of my barrel. In fact, have not cleaned my barrel since starting these three days of testing. Those "flyers" appear do be a thing of the past so my suspicion about the previous lube appears to be correct. I also made a more precises punching process to open up the hollow point for seating the sabot (day 3).
With all that said here are the results. Days 1 & 3 were at 50 yards, day 2 at 59 yards:
Also, here's a group from day 2 with my confirmed low velocity load of 1.6 gr. at 59 yards:
That's a half inch group, maybe less at 59 yards. The LV load has potential! Here's the chrono data for all three days, left to right with the SD in ( ):
My average velocity keeps going up as the barrel gets seasoned with the new lube mix! I also noticed no crud on the front of my Magnetospeed bayonet so its burning clean. Max/min/avg (SD) is the format. Best I can do at the moment off a plastic card table, a $230 gun with a shit stock and a 1-6 power scope.
I will be shooting out to 100/200 on my next outing. Could be interesting!
With all that said here are the results. Days 1 & 3 were at 50 yards, day 2 at 59 yards:
Also, here's a group from day 2 with my confirmed low velocity load of 1.6 gr. at 59 yards:
That's a half inch group, maybe less at 59 yards. The LV load has potential! Here's the chrono data for all three days, left to right with the SD in ( ):
| 1.4gr 1032/972/1001 (26) 1.9.gr 1367/1278/1301 (37) 2.3gr 1582/1536/1554 (20) 2.6gr 1776/1685/1727 (30) 1773/1696/1723 (30) 1773/1700/1724 (30) | 1.6gr 1218/1068/1112 (62) 2.1gr 1470/1386/1437 (36) 2.3gr 1692/1533/1586 (61) 2.6gr 1798/1688/1727 (45) 1763/1705/1732 (20) 1760/1677/1731 (33) | 1.6gr 1135/1085/1113 (24) 1.6gr 1203/1104/1143 (46) 1.7gr 1180/1144/1165 (61) 2.6gr 1839/1734/1757 (45) 1783/1709/1753 (27) 1750/1718/1734 (13) |
My average velocity keeps going up as the barrel gets seasoned with the new lube mix! I also noticed no crud on the front of my Magnetospeed bayonet so its burning clean. Max/min/avg (SD) is the format. Best I can do at the moment off a plastic card table, a $230 gun with a shit stock and a 1-6 power scope.
I will be shooting out to 100/200 on my next outing. Could be interesting!
Interesting project. I cannot help notice that you are doing accuracy testing off of a wobbly table using a 6x optic. I do a good bit of precision shooting and either of those variable would result in my groups being twice as large as normal. You have made great progress. It is time to step up and get a quality scope with at least a max magnification of 16x or 24x. You will be better able to judge the accuracy potential of your ammo by the elimination of those extraneous variables. Shoot only from a solid immovable bench or from prone on the ground from sand bags with a front and rear bag. I have found that all of the high velocity 22lr ammo is substantially less accurate than good subsonic match grade ammo. Some of the best is the CCI mini-mag and Velocitor but they are all crap for precision work. As long as they are accurate enough to hit the tgt 100% of the time, that is OK. My issue is that whatever I can do with it off the bench is going to double or triple in group size when I am shooting off hand and lower magnification from an improvised rest, etc. So for me to be able to say hit a squirrel in the head at 50y consistently, I need ammo that can group under 1/2" (hopefully better) from the bench. Most of the high vel stuff fails to meet that test. One that does work is the 17 mach2. It is getting about 2000 fps out of 17g jacketed ballistic tips and groups 1/2" at 100y and less at 50. Might try researching what powder that use?
Irish
Irish
You are correct Irish. At a minimum I need to invest in a higher magnification optic and shoot off a range bench to improve test results. There's a few other items to address that I'm tabling for a possible version 3:
Back to the bullet at hand. I still only see a potential civilian market for self-defense and hunting. And that's still a BIG maybe given the cost. Its certainly possible to squeeze a bit more accuracy out of it but I don't expect for it to ever reach match grade status. I'm hoping where the HV version lacks in accuracy it will make up some ground at distance given its speed.
We'll know the answer to that shortly.
- Updates to swaging punches (hollow point and nose) to eliminate manual workaround variability
- Testing of other powders
- Softer alloy evaluation
- Barrel rifling evaluation
Back to the bullet at hand. I still only see a potential civilian market for self-defense and hunting. And that's still a BIG maybe given the cost. Its certainly possible to squeeze a bit more accuracy out of it but I don't expect for it to ever reach match grade status. I'm hoping where the HV version lacks in accuracy it will make up some ground at distance given its speed.
We'll know the answer to that shortly.
Azgeek, Have you also thought about upgrading your rifle to one that has a better reputation for accuracy? I really want to know what these new loads can do in a proper platform!
Good luck and keep it going!
Good luck and keep it going!
Well yes but I don't think I'm there just yet. Clearly more magnification would help in addition to addressing items 1 & 3 from my previous post. Additional testing mixing in factory ammo is also required. Still planning on shooting at 100/200 yards on Sunday. No Magnetospeed testing so well see what impact that has without a bayonet hanging off the gun.
I really have no idea what platforms should be considered. Pushing some of these out into the wild for others to test seems more logical that blindly making an investment. Hope is not a strategy or so they say.
I do have my buddies Anschutz 54 which I'm taking with me on Sunday. Maybe I'm hitting the crack pipe too hard but my Savage appears to group better than the Anschutz with this HV round. If that holds true, I'll be at a complete loss for an explanation!
I really have no idea what platforms should be considered. Pushing some of these out into the wild for others to test seems more logical that blindly making an investment. Hope is not a strategy or so they say.
I do have my buddies Anschutz 54 which I'm taking with me on Sunday. Maybe I'm hitting the crack pipe too hard but my Savage appears to group better than the Anschutz with this HV round. If that holds true, I'll be at a complete loss for an explanation!
Finally got out and was able to do some quick and dirty shooting at 156 yards. No time to do anything else. All I was able to confirm was an average drop of 10.25 inches at that distance. Hot conditions, but the wind was kind between 3.5 and 5.5 mph right to left. First 5-shot group was left confirming the wind , then I held 3 mils left to produce a second 10 shot group:
A quick StreloK calculation produced 9.9" U (1.8 mils) . Holding left 3 mils for the wind was a too much. Another shot group with the windage held at 2 mils was pretty much spot on (not shown). Not happy with the results so back to the drawing board for a version 3 when I can find the time.
A quick StreloK calculation produced 9.9" U (1.8 mils) . Holding left 3 mils for the wind was a too much. Another shot group with the windage held at 2 mils was pretty much spot on (not shown). Not happy with the results so back to the drawing board for a version 3 when I can find the time.
AZgeek,
Great experiment you have here. Get me up to speed, I gather you are using the Savage Mark II? What is your end goad with this project?
Great experiment you have here. Get me up to speed, I gather you are using the Savage Mark II? What is your end goad with this project?
End game is two-fold. Win a military contract (in progress) and possibly build specialized .22lr ammunition for civilian self defense and hunting. The Savage I'm using is a B22 Compact, not the Mark II. Not interested in chasing the holy grail of accuracy but not where it needs to be yet in that department.
@AZgeek May I offer an observation? Have you thought of using a different test gun?
If your looking for a military contract, I doubt the military would go with Savage. I’d be keen on finding out what rifle/pistol they’d likely go to and use those as my test rifle.
Also, if your looking at the civilian side, I’d also use a rifle that most shooters shoot. I’d test on a 10/22 and a 455. Those are your 2 biggest 22lr rifles at market.
Just my 2c, but I’d be using a rifle that the masses already use for testing. I know tons of guys that shoot 22lr, and I can’t think of a single one with a Savage. We all know rounds fire differently gun to gun let alone manufacturer to manufacturer. What if one of your loads you’ve already scrapped shot perfect in a 16” Ruger 10/22? ?
I’ve had a few glasses of scotch, so my logic is maybe a bit off ?
If your looking for a military contract, I doubt the military would go with Savage. I’d be keen on finding out what rifle/pistol they’d likely go to and use those as my test rifle.
Also, if your looking at the civilian side, I’d also use a rifle that most shooters shoot. I’d test on a 10/22 and a 455. Those are your 2 biggest 22lr rifles at market.
Just my 2c, but I’d be using a rifle that the masses already use for testing. I know tons of guys that shoot 22lr, and I can’t think of a single one with a Savage. We all know rounds fire differently gun to gun let alone manufacturer to manufacturer. What if one of your loads you’ve already scrapped shot perfect in a 16” Ruger 10/22? ?
I’ve had a few glasses of scotch, so my logic is maybe a bit off ?
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I own 3 of the Savage 22LR rifles which are the Mark II and the B22 FV-SR (bolt action) along with an A22 FV FDX XP (semi-auto) limited edition. You might be surprised by the accuracy of the Savage line given their relative low cost. Dollar for dollar I don't think you'll beat the Mark II / B22 for accuracy out of the box.
I own a MKII and it’s a decent little gunAnd I’m not putting it down at all.
I was just thinking of what the military would probably use for a 22LR, and I don’t see the savage making the cut. Again just my humble opinion.
I was just thinking of what the military would probably use for a 22LR, and I don’t see the savage making the cut. Again just my humble opinion.
For the military side of things, a "flying" delivery system has already been developed and tested. Completely unrelated to what I'm using for this ammo proof-of-concept/testing. Can't really comment any further on that. However what I develop and learn from this development effort will undoubtedly benefit the military project in the long term.
To a large extent, what happens next will again depend on landing a contract. If we don't, then subsequent development activity moves along at a pace based on my time and budget. That's next to zero for both through the end of this year.
I did manage to test that AnSchutz last time out but ran out of rounds. What I saw looks promising but I need to invest in good optics for both platforms before I can continue.
No. Still waiting on potential business.
No point in doing more R&D from my perspective as I achieved my goals and objectives for Phase II. Still some work to do in accuracy department but happy where it ended up. Phase III R&D involves a small investment in revised dies/tooling and developing a more accurate sabot seating methodology. Mostly additional investment in time as opposed to money. Been totally swamped with my day job anyway.
Without a sources for brass or funding of any kind, motivation on my part is lacking!
No point in doing more R&D from my perspective as I achieved my goals and objectives for Phase II. Still some work to do in accuracy department but happy where it ended up. Phase III R&D involves a small investment in revised dies/tooling and developing a more accurate sabot seating methodology. Mostly additional investment in time as opposed to money. Been totally swamped with my day job anyway.
Without a sources for brass or funding of any kind, motivation on my part is lacking!
