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Sudden onset of stuck bolt/brass? Need some help

A

a8jamesa8

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Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 20, 2011
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VTA, California
#1
I have a savage 10 BA in .308 and I'm workin up a load using 178 gr hornady match with varget I have loaded and shot 41.0 41.5 42.0 42.5 43.0 43.5 grain loads trying to work up to 44.0 last week I loaded and shot up to 43.5gr with varget no pressure signs no bolt stick all was good yesterday I started back and loaded some 43.5 43.7 and 44.0gr loads went out today and started with the 43.5 gr and the bolt was stiff as hell lifted and bulled hard only to get the bolt open with no brass it was still stuck in chamber after freeing the brass myself along with a few other shooters and the rang master we could not see and physical pressure signs on the stuck brass I had just shot this load last week with no problems so I loaded another 43.5gr round only to find the bolt stuck again WTF why is this starting now when last week the same load was fine any ideas would be greatfully appreciated.

First load shot good
43.5 gr varget
CCI BR-2 primer
Federal brass once fired trimmed to 2.005
178 gr hornady match set 2.190 OAL to ogive (.010 off lands)

Load that would not eject
43.5 gr varget
CCI BR-2 primer
Federal brass <span style="font-weight: bold">twice fired</span> trimmed to 2.005
178gr hornady match <span style="font-weight: bold">set 2.185 OAL to ogive (.015 off lands)</span>
 
#2
Re: Sudden onset of stuck bolt/brass? Need some help

I was running the numbers through Quickload, but the OAL doesn't jive. Anyway with an OAL of 2.800 the predictive pressure is 61800 psi.
 
#4
Re: Sudden onset of stuck bolt/brass? Need some help

Once fired vs twice fired brass...were either bumped or resized ? What's the diff in case head to shoulder between the once fired and twice fired ?
 
#5
Re: Sudden onset of stuck bolt/brass? Need some help

Depending on the rifle, brass that has been fired/resized several times may have brass flow which results in neck lengths that are too long. Check you case length against published max/trim-to lengths.

If the brass is overly long, it can be getting caught past the end of the chember proper; failing to expand properly, and creating pressure spikes without the load being anywhere near max. Unless such a problem is resolved, it can cause a Kaboom.

This was the cause of the only Kaboom I have ever personally witnessed.

Check that brass length before you fire another shot.

Please!

Greg
 
#6
Re: Sudden onset of stuck bolt/brass? Need some help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Once fired vs twice fired brass...were either bumped or resized ? What's the diff in case head to shoulder between the once fired and twice fired ? </div></div>

Both sets of brass went thru the same RCBS competition FL die and after the size and trimm to 2.005 I cycle 2 or 3 empty brass in the rifle to check for a good close and fit
 
#7
Re: Sudden onset of stuck bolt/brass? Need some help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Depending on the rifle, brass that has been fired/resized several times may have brass flow which results in neck lengths that are too long. Check you case length against published max/trim-to lengths.

If the brass is overly long, it can be getting caught past the end of the chember proper; failing to expand properly, and creating pressure spikes without the load being anywhere near max. Unless such a problem is resolved, it can cause a Kaboom.

This was the cause of the only Kaboom I have ever personally witnessed.

Check that brass length before you fire another shot.

Please!

Greg </div></div>

All brass is trimmed to 2.005 the brass size after shooting is 2.009
 
#8
Re: Sudden onset of stuck bolt/brass? Need some help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. T</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was running the numbers through Quickload, but the OAL doesn't jive. Anyway with an OAL of 2.800 the predictive pressure is 61800 psi. </div></div>

What is a safe range of psi is 61800 to much, average, low?
 
#9
Re: Sudden onset of stuck bolt/brass? Need some help

Do you clean your chamber? I don't touch the bore but always wipe out the chamber and lug area and wipe down the bolt after a shooting session.

Also how many rounds down the bore since cleaning? Some barrels just need to be cleaned every so many rounds. I know the cool thing is to never clean your bore but not every barrel is the same especially when using a factory barrel.

Are there any markings on the brass like rings?
 
#11
Re: Sudden onset of stuck bolt/brass? Need some help

Is the powder the same lot # as the ones that extracted properly?
How much difference in tempeture from your first trip to the range and your second trip?
Are your primers flattened or cratored?
Are you showing signs of excessive pressure or just lack of extraction?
Have you pulled apart some loaded rounds to verify the powder charge?
I have done some pretty silly things in my last 30yrs of reloading, so forgive me if I ask silly questions! For example...IMR4198 is not the same as IMR4895...Federal 210m's are not the same as Fed 215m's and the list goes on...
 
#12
Re: Sudden onset of stuck bolt/brass? Need some help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you clean your chamber? I don't touch the bore but always wipe out the chamber and lug area and wipe down the bolt after a shooting session.

Also how many rounds down the bore since cleaning? Some barrels just need to be cleaned every so many rounds. I know the cool thing is to never clean your bore but not every barrel is the same especially when using a factory barrel.

Are there any markings on the brass like rings? </div></div>

I only clean about every 100 rounds or accuracy drops off which ever comes first and 100 rd always comes first.
The stuck brass was just after a fresh cleaning.
The only out af ordinary marks was on the stuck brass the rim was chewed/stripped where I got the bolt open with no brass the other one I was able to work out with the bolt look good no marks ring or bulges
 
#13
Re: Sudden onset of stuck bolt/brass? Need some help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you rip the rim off the case that was stuck in the chamber, or did the extractor climb over the rim? </div></div>

It did not rip off but it did chew up the bottom lip and thin it out to where it would not grab
 
#14
Re: Sudden onset of stuck bolt/brass? Need some help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Joe40x</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is the powder the same lot # as the ones that extracted properly?
How much difference in tempeture from your first trip to the range and your second trip?
Are your primers flattened or cratored?
Are you showing signs of excessive pressure or just lack of extraction?
Have you pulled apart some loaded rounds to verify the powder charge?
I have done some pretty silly things in my last 30yrs of reloading, so forgive me if I ask silly questions! For example...IMR4198 is not the same as IMR4895...Federal 210m's are not the same as Fed 215m's and the list goes on... </div></div>

The powder is from the same 8pound can

Temp the first time was slightly cooler than second time but both cool calm sunny days

Primers look good I also compared them to factory load spent brass looks very close to the same

No pressure signs just lack of extraction

No but I will pull some today to verify load
 
#15
Re: Sudden onset of stuck bolt/brass? Need some help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Depending on the rifle, brass that has been fired/resized several times may have brass flow which results in neck lengths that are too long. Check you case length against published max/trim-to lengths.
</div></div>

This is the exact thing that happened to me a few weeks back with a new R700. I grabbed some brass that was shot in my gas gun, small base FL died and a loaded 42.0 of RE15. I almost couldn't get the bolt to even open. I bought new brass and with the same exact load and no bolt lift problems.
 
#16
Re: Sudden onset of stuck bolt/brass? Need some help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A8jamesA8</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I only clean about every 100 rounds or accuracy drops off which ever comes first and 100 rd always comes first.
<span style="font-weight: bold">The stuck brass was just after a fresh cleaning. </span>
The only out af ordinary marks was on the stuck brass the rim was chewed/stripped where I got the bolt open with no brass the other one I was able to work out with the bolt look good no marks ring or bulges </div></div>

Perhaps you left some googe in the chamber, disallowing the case from "gripping" the chamber, thus allowing more brass movement and flow?

Signs of overpressure and sticky bolt can result from either cases or chambers that are "lubricated".

Look into it.
 
#17
Re: Sudden onset of stuck bolt/brass? Need some help

When I have had this problem before with 308 and 30/06 cases I used a set of RCBS small base dies and it worked for me.With these dies I always use Imperial Die Wax case lube now sold by Redding.

Ken
 
#18
Re: Sudden onset of stuck bolt/brass? Need some help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A8jamesA8</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I only clean about every 100 rounds or accuracy drops off which ever comes first and 100 rd always comes first.
<span style="font-weight: bold">The stuck brass was just after a fresh cleaning. </span>
The only out af ordinary marks was on the stuck brass the rim was chewed/stripped where I got the bolt open with no brass the other one I was able to work out with the bolt look good no marks ring or bulges </div></div>

Perhaps you left some googe in the chamber, disallowing the case from "gripping" the chamber, thus allowing more brass movement and flow?

Signs of overpressure and sticky bolt can result from either cases or chambers that are "lubricated".

Look into it. </div></div>

Soft brass or residual lube on case would be my Bet! Don't ask how I know.

Diego
 
#20
Re: Sudden onset of stuck bolt/brass? Need some help

Try full sizing the brass, trimming, and try again. Avoid neck sizing for some testing and see what happens.
Also, be careful pulling too hard on the bolt. Try carefully pushing the bolt back with a barrel rod, while pulling the bolt back.
 
#22
Re: Sudden onset of stuck bolt/brass? Need some help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A8jamesA8</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is a safe range of psi is 61800 to much, average, low? </div></div>

<Good> Brass starts to flow at 58K PSI, so in general, one likes to keep pressure down to this level. However, some pip-squeek rounds (like 5.56*45) are allowed up to 61K PSI.

Ordinance steel can take 100K-110K PSI O-N-C-E, or 50K-55K PSI essentially forever. As you venture above 55K PSI the life of the steel parts (action, bolt, barrel) is being comprimized at an exponential rate. Proof loads (78K-PSI) are used (once) to test and verify that the action, bolt, and barrel are all "up to snuff" and are unlikely to blow themselves up with 58K PSI loads over decades of use with 'normal' pressures.
 
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