This is where I believe most of the disconnect on this thread lies.Expensive to do (billable gunsmith-time wise) that may or may not give significant improvement for a team of four to sixteen guys to maintain across five uppers each.
Does he need you to speak for him?
Not really. Carrier tilt with piston guns is not about how hard the piston pushes, but where it pushes. In a DI gun, the bolt does the pushing, and is aligned with the carrier. On a piston gun, the force is applied above the carrier at what is normally the gas key. That causes tilt.
What's being discussed in this thread is a different thing, that is more about how a loosely fitting carrier sits in an upper.
anyone know what a free body diagram is? The force from the gas impulse is not entirely parallel with the bore.You're still wrong.
well, we are discussing carrier tilt in a system using gas from an explosion. If someone is worrying about carrier tilt, and its significant enough to have "tilt", then the forces acting on it must not be insignificant.It’s insignificant. Or does your exhaust manifold push your car into the ground?
and how can you call the gas force insignificant, when its the only force acting on the system, ignoring the spring force propelling the firing pin, and he force of the propellant at the bolt face when the lugs are locked.It’s insignificant. Or does your exhaust manifold push your car into the ground?
I'm near Tampa myself. Want to get a beer, smile, and call each other assholes?It is no surprise that the world is going to hell with the way we talk to each other, when we're supposed to be on the SAME side. I often wonder what would happen if certain groups showed up at a range together and realized who each other is, lol.
I'm near Tampa myself. Want to get a beer, smile, and call each other assholes?
Thanks Sinister, I appreciate your explainations. This thread has been informational and entertaining to say the least.There are a few ways to center the bolt carrier group in the center of the upper with the firing pin hole coaxial with the center of the bore. Make a carrier with a large flange at the back end, bush the front end, and conically face the carrier to fit the end of the extension (a la LMT).
The carrier can't lock up so tight it prevents reciprocation to function.
You have three force vectors that change with every shot: the action spring pushing from the rear; the force of the magazine spring from the bottom (which varies at every shot from 30 to empty); and the force of the hammer as it hits not only the firing pin but pushes the carrier group into final battery.
Each and every mod can incrementally add to consistent lock-up.
The flange on the front end of an LMT enhanced carrier which mates into the receiver extension recess (M16):
View attachment 7200148
You can get anti-tilt buffers designed to help reduce tilting off-axis (advertised for piston rifles but can be used on direct-gas carriers, they fit into the rear of your carrier):
View attachment 7200224
If I were to do anything else, I'd buy an LMT switch-barrel upper. You get the advantage of a long, heavy barrel shank secured to the upper over a longer distance at the cost of weight. Turn the barrel down in the front to compensate and you get a little more sinoidal whip.
Great article... certainly makes me feel better about Truing receiver faces and Loctiting in barrels.. LolApparently someone at Proof Research seems to think there's some merit to them https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/accurize-your-ar-15/247749
Why do you think that carrier (assuming same nominal weight) will give 20% more recoil?Let me ask you this. If you get .2moa from a carrier designed to prevent anti tilt. Is that worth 20% more recoil? Guess it depends on the application.
You'd just have to shoot it or try the build. Kynshot compresses during unlock and again when buffer bottoms out. They think it may again when bolt slams home but not proven yet. Check out amphibians work on arfcom. It shoots smoother than a setup on the edge of reliability.Why do you think that carrier (assuming same nominal weight) will give 20% more recoil?
Unless you are assuming a weight increase.
Besides, that's what's adjustable GB's are for........................
Yeah, I like the concept but for me, hydraulic buffers (and for that matter the SCS from JP) fall under the same category as adjustable triggers & adjustable gas blocks. Just something extra that could fail.You'd just have to shoot it or try the build. Kynshot compresses during unlock and again when buffer bottoms out. They think it may again when bolt slams home but not proven yet. Check out amphibians work on arfcom. It shoots smoother than a setup on the edge of reliability.
20% was conservative because I knew someone would call it out. i think .2moa was probably giving the anti tilt a little more than it is worth as well. I would say recoils less than half as much as my next properly gased Midlength ar with h2. It just dosent move...at all.
I would say the only thing that is slightly worries me is the reliability of the hydraulic system. I know other hydraulic buffers have had issues before. Doubt it would make it into a home defense or Duty setup
I'm going to try this when I get my Grendel.and shoot another group with single feed from a sled.
With respect to DI and Piston uppers, where is the bullet when something starts to move in the action?
Lock time not dwell time allows the barrel to move before the bullet exits.