Swatted

[Lrdchaos]

I fall on both sides of this argument, I have a number of friends that are police officers. They are subjected to the worst of humanity day in and day out. It’s easy for the keyboard commandoes on forums to trash the police after each incident. The police have a few seconds to make a decision and we have months to tear it apart.

That being said, I feel like the Police are operating on level 10 right now. Everyone is looking at them through a microscope, and everyone is wanting be famous by taking on the cops. People are embolden right now, and not in a good way. The cops are responding with force above and beyond what is required. The police force in general have brought a lot of it on themselves though, through previous actions and policies.


I haven’t read the articles related to this incident, but to try and blame the homeowner seems like nonsense. The line stating that he was reaching for his waist line is going to be a “bs” catch all excuse for the officer’s actions. Everyone will say if a cop says put your hands up you would, I’m going to venture that no one has answered the door with cops drawn down yelling at you. One flinch in the wrong direction and it’s...”he was reaching for his waist line”.

It seems to me, if the shooting can be legitimately justified then move on, otherwise it’s time for the police to start spending time in jail like everyone else. The days of high school bullies becoming cops and exercising excessive force on the population is over..hopefully.

 

[Dewey7271]

I hope they put the guy that set this up in a cell with Bubba for about 50 years.

 

[Alphatreedog]

I was getting ready for work one morning aroundl 5:00am when wife comes 8n and say there are two people out front with flash lights . Thought about grabbin a pistol and thought na . Went out my side kitchen door and get greeted by a flashlight in my eyes and some boozo telling me there is a pitbull running around . He goes on to say you'd better go inside all the while light in my eyes . I respond , there's a dog runnin around . Did he attack anyone . Bozo answers no and still flashlight in my eyes . Bozo says he's in my back yard to thich I reply you want me to get him . Bozo finally lowers hand with flashlight allowing me to see big yellow tazer pistol that's been pointed at me the whole time . Low and behold laser is attached to fat , fifty something cop . To my new found sight and assesment of Bozo and taser I asked him if he was fu kin kidding me . The guy never identified himself and it took no effin light in the eyes for me to figure it out . He was obviously scared shitless of the d9g and it was affecting his ability to perform his job . I doubt the way he handled the encounter was standard procedure .

Also if you look to the left in the video right by the pick up truck bed you will see what appears to be a gun , no muzzle flash , smoke and an ejected case .

 

[diverdon]

I fall on both sides of this argument, I have a number of friends that are police officers. They are subjected to the worst of humanity day in and day out. It’s easy for the keyboard commandoes on forums to trash the police after each incident. The police have a few seconds to make a decision and we have months to tear it apart.

That being said, I feel like the Police are operating on level 10 right now. Everyone is looking at them through a microscope, and everyone is wanting be famous by taking on the cops. People are embolden right now, and not in a good way. The cops are responding with force above and beyond what is required. The police force in general have brought a lot of it on themselves though, through previous actions and policies.


I haven’t read the articles related to this incident, but to try and blame the homeowner seems like nonsense. The line stating that he was reaching for his waist line is going to be a “bs” catch all excuse for the officer’s actions. Everyone will say if a cop says put your hands up you would, I’m going to venture that no one has answered the door with cops drawn down yelling at you. One flinch in the wrong direction and it’s...”he was reaching for his waist line”.

It seems to me, if the shooting can be legitimately justified then move on, otherwise it’s time for the police to start spending time in jail like everyone else. The days of high school bullies becoming cops and exercising excessive force on the population is over..hopefully.

I get it that you don't want to be insulting to the police in general, most of whom would never make a mistake like this. But, I gotta ask when they come to your house by mistake how long would you like to be able to hear their orders, see that they are really police not home invaders, and understand their instructions then comply.

Cause this guy did not get that long. Now kids grow up without their dad. What is it that you recommend for how this guy should have answered his door.

And you know what else, don't tell me that they went their with the mindset that they are going into this massive event. There can not possibly be a cop so stupid that he has not heard that sometimes 911 calls are pranks.

Like 308Pirate said in post 30: "As long as officers get to go home safely, fuck everybody and everything else." while his sarcasm fits pretty well here that is bullshit too. There are truck drivers and sometimes they get in truck wrecks. There are lumberjacks injured felling trees. There are farmers who get twisted up in PTO's If you have a manly job most of the time there is some risk involved. Fuck that any job, emergency nurses have to deal with nutcases every day, but their first response is not to shoot them. There is still some apologist out their that is going to say but they have only seconds to make the choice. Again I say bullshit! Remember the trooper who pulled Timothy McVeigh over for speeding, McVeigh had a loaded .45 under a newspaper on his front seat. But, that officer was able to arrest a truly dangerous man without having to shoot him. (That Officer is one hell of a Cop by the way!) So don't tell me cops must kill dads answering their doors, cause we don't need that kind of cops in this country.

 

[pmclaine]

In my local area the tactical teams spend hours yelling at empty houses through a bull horn utilizing distance and cover. Than before anyone goes inside the house is usually well fumigated with some sort of an irritant......really boring usually but mostly no one gets hurt.

Often if its a bad actor they make it easy once they realize what is outside.

Its the rare really bad actor that chooses to go from crime of passion to conscious confrontation while barricaded.

Arriving on scene and hearing shots in an active shooter situation different thing entirely.

That's just a comment on how things can happen at times.

Knocking on the door seems unusual, certainly a task that is drawn on short straw.

 

[diverdon]

I was getting ready for work one morning aroundl 5:00am when wife comes 8n and say there are two people out front with flash lights . Thought about grabbin a pistol and thought na . Went out my side kitchen door and get greeted by a flashlight in my eyes and some boozo telling me there is a pitbull running around . He goes on to say you'd better go inside all the while light in my eyes . I respond , there's a dog runnin around . Did he attack anyone . Bozo answers no and still flashlight in my eyes . Bozo says he's in my back yard to thich I reply you want me to get him . Bozo finally lowers hand with flashlight allowing me to see big yellow tazer pistol that's been pointed at me the whole time . Low and behold laser is attached to fat , fifty something cop . To my new found sight and assesment of Bozo and taser I asked him if he was fu kin kidding me . The guy never identified himself and it took no effin light in the eyes for me to figure it out . He was obviously scared shitless of the d9g and it was affecting his ability to perform his job . I doubt the way he handled the encounter was standard procedure .

Also if you look to the left in the video right by the pick up truck bed you will see what appears to be a gun , no muzzle flash , smoke and an ejected case .

However wrong that cop in your back yard was, at least he only drew his tazer.

 

[diverdon]

Before I even start, there will be the wave of people who will be all upset about "How can you be against the police, you either have to be for them unquestioningly or your one of the evil police haters".
NO, I am one of the most dedicated to law and order people there is and I fully support having a well paid, well equipped, well trained, well educated professional police force and treat them with respect anytime I can and am happy to assist in any way I can if they need my assistance.

BUT I'm not one of these head up my backside, blinders on, refusing to see the actual truth people who are living in some "righteous" fantasy world. I can clearly see how the honorable profession and good name of the police are being systematically destroyed by their own unions, their own command structure & politically correct politicians, as they refuse to harshly and immediately deal with those officers that loose it and refuse to enforce professional standards for conduct and respecting citizens proper constitutional rights, and remembering that the police are the watchmen hired by the citizens rather than control force for the local government to use at their whim. Not to mention the utter corruption of using the police as revenue collectors to bolster local budgets. (Which Oklahoma just took to a new level of evil with draining peoples credit cards / debit cards / gifts cards on the side of the road, in a crooked deal with some greedy "service" company.)
Most times by the time an out of control police officer murders someone & creates a public uproar, possible riots and a multimillion dollar set of lawsuits, they have a long history of excessive force and brutality complaints against them, but are still somehow employed. They should have been kicked out of the police department years ago.

The trigger happy police officer that killed the innocent unarmed man shouldn't be having a paid vacation, he should at the very least be suspended without pay if not cooling his heels in jail. WATCH THE VIDEO, the police are in NO danger at all (except for themselves), The one police person yelling commands wasn't even through screaming a command when somebody decided they wanted to get a kill in. The poor father was stumbling out of his door in the pitch dark into a bunch of lights shining in his eyes and voices screaming, If your hands are at your sides as they normally are when walking, you have to raise them up past your waist to get them above your head. The police were in NO danger whatsoever from anyone but themselves.

Ask yourself if one of your kids or relatives was sound asleep and then was woken up suddenly by a bunch of noise and opened the door to blinding lights shining in their face and different hoarse screams with all different commands being yelled at them, how long would it take them to actually understand what is happening, have all their faculties kick in and then begin to try to comprehend if they should do what the one hoarse voice yelling at them to step forward first, or the other hoarse voice yelling at them to stand still & raise their hands, or another raspy voice screaming to freeze and not make any moves. Oh sorry time's up 2 seconds later one of the voices decided to just kill them... happy now are you?

The police were totally out of control and hugely unprofessional in this situation, not even doing the slightest bit of checking to see if this is actually a valid call, just rolling up to some poor innocent family sleeping soundly for the night and gunning down a father in cold blood. The Police caused the local issue and were the only danger to anyone at that time, they don't get to claim they were "scared". They didn't call an ambulance for him immediately or try any life saving steps, they WANTED HIM DEAD, then forcing the kids to step over the body of their dying relative as men with guns terrorize them. "Some prankster kid from across the country scared us" is NOT an excuse to go killing people in cold blood.

I am so sick and fed up with all the excuses that people who refuse to see the truth keep saying. This is what WE THE PEOPLE hire the police to protect us from. WE THE PEOPLE are the ones who have a Constitutional right to be safe and secure in our own houses, persons and papers from government excesses. But if the police are going to be acting no better than this, it might be time we just ditch them and have our own civilian militia of local citizens, till we can rebuild a well paid professional police force of stable officers.

I'm sure there will also be a bunch of apologists as normal who will say "well there was a call that came in so, the police just had to come in and couldn't take any chances so of course they had to kill someone" That is such garbage, NO attempt was made to see if it was a false call, no attempts to determine if the idiot on the phone actually was there, no verification that the call was coming from a number or a cell phone in the area, NO scouting the area out and listening for any noises in the house, NO attempts to be anything other than a bunch of rampaging thugs. "Swatting" is a well known issue (at least 100 times more common than "terrorism") and there is no excuse not to do basic checks. If you listen to the 911 audio, there are so many clues in the idiots voice and words, that this is quite possibly a fake.

Too many people who claim to be the "good decent ones" seem to think it's fine for the police to go around executing people in cold blood because "Well they didn't obey whatever command I was shouting fast enough" or "Well they made me nervous and my roid shrunken balls felt a twinge" or "when in doubt just start shooting first and check out the situation later". That kind of garbage doesn't cut it for a moment when a normal civilian uses deadly force to defend themselves, so it shouldn't be allowed for people who are supposed to be well trained, well armed, well armored, well backed up professionals.

The root of this problem however is that the police are not held personally criminally & financially responsible for their actions when they step out of line like they should be. Because they know they will get away with murder, and their buddies, their department, their union will all cover for them. And if there is any civil suits, the taxpayers get to fork out more of their hard earned money for it and nothing comes out of the pockets of those responsible. Just look at the example ongoing of that Somali thug in uniform with a long history of brutality complaints, false arrest complaints, extortion, violence to women, and general African level thuggery that somehow was still employed in Minneapolis (probably because he was a darker skin toned & maybe Muslim for bonus politically correct stats) when he murdered the little snowflake. The prosecutor says "Well he won't say anything to us, so we don't have any information to decide about charges"???? Since when could you not bring charges against a clear cut case of murder because the suspect refuses to talk?

I'm sure there will be a whole pile of people going on about "so many good police officers... only one or two bad" Well when the supposed "good" ones cover for the "bad" ones, and their unions blatantly try to spin unbelievable piles of excrement in statements supporting officers who long ago should have been fired, they all become tainted with the same crime. YES most of the police officers are fine dedicated upstanding caring individuals, but by their refusal to demand that those unworthy of the uniform are removed swiftly, they let themselves and their profession become tainted.


As for the stupid gamer, how about after we deal Strongly, Publically and Immediately with the police officer that did the killing, we let any of his fellow officers or friends who feel the punishment is unfair, express their "displeasure" directly to the waste of humanity who got the whole thing started, if they happen to still be breathing afterwards, we can lock them up in jail for life. Perhaps if the little punks doing the "swatting" calls realized they would get a bit of direct justice and an immediate and public world of hurt on them, they might think twice about the whole idea.

You may wonder why I'm more upset about the wrong actions of the police than the stupid gamer (who deserves very harsh and immediate punishment)... it's simple, if some stupid little prankster can call up your vaunted great local police department from across the country and have them go rampaging out and killing innocent people in their own homes, it's not a matter of "oops well mmm... stuff happens... we'll get the prankster" It means there is something hugely wrong with the police department and it is more important to sort them out and then get to dealing with the evil prankster, because there will always be evil people trying to do pranks.

Hopefully at least the family of the victim will sue the city in federal court for enough bankrupt the city & make the local citizens ask why all their tax money is gone, which might make the politicians worried about the next election and might make the politicians decide to actually force some reforms of the local police department. It's about all the family of the victim can hope for these days since actual justice is almost always denied one way or another.

I hope you send that to every news paper in the country. I'm doubt it can be said better.

 

[Veer_G]

However wrong that cop in your back yard was, at least he only drew his tazer.

I am ever so grateful for tender mercies.

 

[Flyingbullseye]

Better footage of the bodycam for those that it doesn't load.

 

[ArmyJerry]

that is an execution

Conclusion: there is absolutely no upside interacting with police , none at all, only downside, including premature violent death by firing squad, whether its on your porch in the middle of the night or whether you are on a floor of a hotel hallway. Shit is out of control. Avoid the police at all costs, do not call them, do not talk to them, avoid at all costs.

 

[308pirate]

that is an execution

Conclusion: there is absolutely no upside interacting with police , none at all, only downside, including premature violent death by firing squad, whether its on your porch in the middle of the night or whether you are on a floor of a hotel hallway. Shit is out of control. Avoid the police at all costs, do not call them, do not talk to them, avoid at all costs.

+1

Straight up murder. That cop has to do hard fucking time.

I'm starting to see the point black folks have been making for a while now. Looks like the cops have graduated from executing black people to executing anyone and everyone.

 

[Lrdchaos]

I get it that you don't want to be insulting to the police in general, most of whom would never make a mistake like this. But, I gotta ask when they come to your house by mistake how long would you like to be able to hear their orders, see that they are really police not home invaders, and understand their instructions then comply.

Cause this guy did not get that long. Now kids grow up without their dad. What is it that you recommend for how this guy should have answered his door.

And you know what else, don't tell me that they went their with the mindset that they are going into this massive event. There can not possibly be a cop so stupid that he has not heard that sometimes 911 calls are pranks.

Like 308Pirate said in post 30: "As long as officers get to go home safely, fuck everybody and everything else." while his sarcasm fits pretty well here that is bullshit too. There are truck drivers and sometimes they get in truck wrecks. There are lumberjacks injured felling trees. There are farmers who get twisted up in PTO's If you have a manly job most of the time there is some risk involved. Fuck that any job, emergency nurses have to deal with nutcases every day, but their first response is not to shoot them. There is still some apologist out their that is going to say but they have only seconds to make the choice. Again I say bullshit! Remember the trooper who pulled Timothy McVeigh over for speeding, McVeigh had a loaded .45 under a newspaper on his front seat. But, that officer was able to arrest a truly dangerous man without having to shoot him. (That Officer is one hell of a Cop by the way!) So don't tell me cops must kill dads answering their doors, cause we don't need that kind of cops in this country.

If you took my comment as defending this shooting, that wasn’t my intent. I’m simply stating that try to see both sides, if the cop is wrong then he deserves to spend time in jail like everyone else. The real issue here is that people seem to classify entire groups by the actions of the .5 percent. Like Bush said, “ we often judge others by their worst examples, while judging ourselves by our best intentions”. I’ve found that the majority of people that hammer the police at every opportunity are the first people to hide behind them when shit hits the fan.

 

[ArmyJerry]

if that guys wife came out and shot the shit out of the cops for executing her husband, what would the news be saying?

 

[diverdon]

If you took my comment as defending this shooting, that wasn’t my intent. I’m simply stating that try to see both sides, if the cop is wrong then he deserves to spend time in jail like everyone else. The real issue here is that people seem to classify entire groups by the actions of the .5 percent. Like Bush said, “ we often judge others by their worst examples, while judging ourselves by our best intentions”. I’ve found that the majority of people that hammer the police at every opportunity are the first people to hide behind them when shit hits the fan.

No I did not misread your post, you are on the fence. Frankly, I think a fair look at the situation leaves little room to be on the fence.

Absent significant (and unlikely) new information the police officer was wrong to shoot the man.

If not a complete idiot this officer will announce (along side or thru his lawyer) that it was an AD then force the DA to prove intent. Unless of course like the Minnesota/Somali Muslim that murdered the Australian woman he belongs to a protected class.

I have not noticed any mention of the race or ethnicity of the officer. Has any one else noticed.

 

[diverdon]

if that guys wife came out and shot the shit out of the cops for executing her husband, what would the news be saying?

It says he is the father of two children. The day after Christmas ten years from now when they go into the police station and kill every fucking one of them what will the media say? Perhaps the police should kill his children as a precaution, after all they should not have to live with the stress of worrying about what they might do someday.

----------------

Like 308Pirate felt the need to say: some of the above is sarcasm.

 

[Lrdchaos]

No I did not misread your post, you are on the fence. Frankly, I think a fair look at the situation leaves little room to be on the fence.

Absent significant (and unlikely) new information the police officer was wrong to shoot the man.

If not a complete idiot this officer will announce (along side or thru his lawyer) that it was an AD then force the DA to prove intent. Unless of course like the Minnesota/Somali Muslim that murdered the Australian woman he belongs to a protected class.

I have not noticed any mention of the race or ethnicity of the officer. Has any one else noticed.

If you reread my first post, 3rd paragraph I think it clearly states that I haven’t read the article regarding this shooting and I clearly state that blaming the Home owner seems like bs BS. I’m speaking in general, as each case is different. I can tell that this case has stirred a lot of emotion and people can’t think clearly.

 

[ArmyJerry]

LRD CHAOS, you really belong in the UN< you cant come to a simple conclusion even when there is fuking video, people like you get whole countries massacred.

THis guys is someone you should model yourself after, he knows CHAOS, and he is decisive.

 

[Lrdchaos]

You might be one of the dumbest motherfukers I’ve ever seen on the internet. If you read my post, I clearly state that I haven’t read the article. I haven’t watched the video either. If the cop is wrong put him in jail, but to slander an entire group over the action of a few is absolutely stupid.

It would be like classifying all middle aged white males with guns as hillbilly fucks as a menace to society.....well shit, I guess I can group people together.

as soon as I get back to civilization where I don’t have E data signal I’ll watch the video and read the articles.

 

[diverdon]

If you reread my first post, 3rd paragraph I think it clearly states that I haven’t read the article regarding this shooting and I clearly state that blaming the Home owner seems like bs BS. I’m speaking in general, as each case is different. I can tell that this case has stirred a lot of emotion and people can’t think clearly.

I've stated at least three times that my opinion might be changed if significant new facts come to light. So in that sense you are right we should only judge based of established facts. However for the purpose of this discussion we are assuming that the information presented by the journalists and by the the police press conference is largely correct. As Snipershide members we do not have the lawful power to carry out a sentence, so this is just a conversation.

While more information may come to light over time that could benefit the officer it is very difficult for me to see why such information was not covered at the police press conference.

For example if the father of two turns out to be a convicted murderer out on patrol with a history of starting gun fights with the police, and if this officer knew that, then it might start to become plausible that he felt this guy was a threat. So if you believe that something like that might come up go ahead and explain it to up.... But the rest of us have read the story and so we have little patients for some one coming in and positing that sometimes the police turn out to be justified. We know that, but it has become very hard to see how that might be in this case.

 

[myronman3]

never call 911 , its dangerous to have interactions with the police evidently. handle shit yourself or walk away, do not ever call the police. This is how ghetto police relations work. The ghetto people might have a point here.

wrong answer. had the father seen the shit outside, and called 911 to report it, i bet this all turns out differently. fuck if i go outside in a situation like that. i'd stand back and call 911. no fucking telling what you are walking outside and into. call 911 and establish a dialog before you expose yourself to be gunned down like a fuckign dog.

i am generally pro police, and i am lucky that i live in a place with an really good police force. still, there is a turd or two in there. had one after me for a while, for unfucking my violent 8 year old nephew who attacked a pregnant teacher. cocksucker still has it in for me, only cause i committed no crime and he couldnt charge me..but he's laying in wait for me. every other deputy and officer i have dealt with is excellent.
my point? it only takes one turd in the punchbowl to ruin the party.

 

[diverdon]

You might be one of the dumbest motherfukers I’ve ever seen on the internet. If you read my post, I clearly state that I haven’t read the article. I haven’t watched the video either. If the cop is wrong put him in jail, but to slander an entire group over the action of a few is absolutely stupid.

It would be like classifying all middle aged white males with guns as hillbilly fucks as a menace to society.....well shit, I guess I can group people together.

as soon as I get back to civilization where I don’t have E data signal I’ll watch the video and read the articles.

You might be right about Jerry or you might not be, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

 

[TheGerman]

Swatter needs to be charged with whatever you are charged with if you commit a crime and one of your fellow criminals shoots someone/is shot themselves.

Officer that shot with the typical 'but his hands' bullshit needs to be charged with manslaughter.

If you can tie anything that happens at the location of a 'swatting' to the person that initiates it, you end this because no one wants to end up in jail for life because of a stupid phone call.

The police bullshit of 'he moved his hands near his belt' needs to also die a fiery death. This can't be an excuse any longer because that's all it is; a fallback excuse. You were stressed and couldn't keep up or keep in control of a situation. Did you see a gun? Did anything around that was recording see anything that even remotely looked like a foreign object near the guys' hands? No. Yet....his hands moved! I shot him! But his hands!!

Sounds like manslaughter to me. You get me on your jury where you're trying to sell this as officer safety and you're going to jail.

 

[ArmyJerry]

All right man, I am almost the dumbest fuck on the net but I am not the one commenting on a subject without watching the video, reading the original post, or even reading an article on the fuking shooting, but yea I am the dumbest fuk here. Keep believing that Prof Chaos.

You haven't been paying attention, all white men have been classified for some time now, so try waking the fuk up.

You might be one of the dumbest motherfukers I’ve ever seen on the internet. If you read my post, I clearly state that I haven’t read the article. I haven’t watched the video either. If the cop is wrong put him in jail, but to slander an entire group over the action of a few is absolutely stupid.

It would be like classifying all middle aged white males with guns as hillbilly fucks as a menace to society.....well shit, I guess I can group people together.

as soon as I get back to civilization where I don’t have E data signal I’ll watch the video and read the articles.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I don't know the circumstances on the ground in KS. So I can't say that the officer needs to be charged or not. But, damn... it does not look good.

The little a**-pirate in California needs to be charged with 1st degree and go to jail forever.

Spent more than a decade with SRT. We trained to be better than that. But some circumstances can create some really, really impossible options. I hope that the team was simply put in an impossible situation. And I am sure the officer is sick right now. As he should be.

So I won't hang the PD at this point. But, again, it's a tough situation for them.

The 911 caller.... well, unconstitutional cruel and unusual punishment seems kind of appropriate for that scum-weasel.

Sorry for the family, the department, the officer and the situation.

Sirhr

 

[diverdon]

TheGerman, I gotta ask the father was in his house, suppose he had a gun when he answered the door would that have been justification to shoot him? In my opinion it would not have been.

I think Murder should be the charge, if he can convince the jury that it was an AD then convict him of manslaughter.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

This is straight up fucking shit. I hear a massive response on my block I'm getting my shotgun but im sure as fuck not answering the fucking door. When they do make contact with me I'm going to tell them I cleared my own house and to move the fuck back. I decided on that when the Boston police terrorized whole neighborhoods all geared up like they were in Fullujah. WTF.

 

[Foul Mike]

This is clear to me that it is a Royally fucked up situation and proves to me that the Thin Blue Line needs to police it'self from within but it does not happen. All are good to go and that is nonsense. Hold feet to the fire if that is what needs done, but, that very seldom happens. Thin the ranks from within, you know who is bad just as you know who is good.
Too often we hear,"WE have investigated the situation within and have found no wrongdoing." and we all know that is nothing other than a cover up and pure Bullshit. and no one goes to jail or is held accountable for their actions and stays on the job. Biggest failure of The Thin Blue Line.
The LEOs and their supporters will call me stupid and an Asshole and I haven't walked in their shoes so how would I know?
How do I know?
As a Grunt in Vietnam I walked and cleared many Villes over there. Some went good and unfortunatly some went bad. It was a much more dangerous situation than what Cops here in the World face and it was day by day some days worse than others but everyday to some degree or another.
I did not bust caps on every Mamasan or Papasan or Boysan I came across but bust caps I did, sometimes. Some were good and some were bad.
If it makes any of you feel any better, that Cop will know if he did bad or good and if he has any kind of feelings or soul, will live with what he did, good or bad for the rest of his life.
For me it has been Hell and in my mind I do the bad things over and over every day.
He will know and have to live with it behind bars or on the outside. I hope it is behind bars. FM











and

 

[308pirate]

wrong answer. had the father seen the shit outside, and called 911 to report it, i bet this all turns out differently.

Really? Seriously?

LOL

Guy in house surrounded by the police: 911, WTF are all these cops doing outside my home?
911: Sir please put the gun down and come out as instructed
Guy in house: I didndonuffin! I don't have a gun WTF are you talking about?
911: Ibidem......

 

[308pirate]

I don't know the circumstances on the ground in KS. So I can't say that the officer needs to be charged or not. But, damn... it does not look good.

The little a**-pirate in California needs to be charged with 1st degree and go to jail forever.

Spent more than a decade with SRT. We trained to be better than that. But some circumstances can create some really, really impossible options. I hope that the team was simply put in an impossible situation. And I am sure the officer is sick right now. As he should be.

So I won't hang the PD at this point. But, again, it's a tough situation for them.

The 911 caller.... well, unconstitutional cruel and unusual punishment seems kind of appropriate for that scum-weasel.

Sorry for the family, the department, the officer and the situation.

Sirhr

Dude, watch the video again and again and again. Cops are behind concealment across the freaking street and this guy is gunned down with hardly a reason. He had no weapons on him. The guy behind the rifle screwed the pooch and ended an innocent life. He needs to pay.

He needs to pay just like I would be made to pay if i did the same thing.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Have not watched the video... and I don't have a judgement yet, 308. As I pointed out... it does not look good. I'm not protecting anyone. But noone would have been there without a scumbag in CA. I hope we can all agree that he needs to pay. The officer... needs to be subject to very thorough investigation.

It's a giant sh** sandwich. Which would never have been made had it not been for a scumbag. In California.

Sirhr

 

[Deleted member 10043]

6 year old boy got killed by police in TX Christmas Eve. They lit up and killed a car thief on the kid's front porch. The thief had no relationship to the residence. The police are discharging too many rounds most the time. This is a classic case of more than enough and missing several times with consequences. Now police knocking on a residence door and shooting the first person to answer is a fucking nightmare.

 

[ArmyJerry]

=['/why did maggot have to post this divisive shit

 

[Tucker301]

The primary solution needed here is technical, addressing how a 911 call from another state gets enough consideration to be considered as valid for the address given.
The man shot did things he shouldn't have, but he also should have never been placed in the situation. I am sure his last thought was "WHAT THE FUCK?"
The police believed that the man had one dead and additional hostages, and had issued threats to kill them all and burn down the house. They were ramped way the hell in the wrong direction, but for what they thought were valid reasons.
I wouldn't want to be on either side of that situation. I'd get shot or I'd shoot, pretty much just like it went down.

What I would like to do is get 10 minutes alone with the shit stain that set all of this horrific mess into motion.
Thank God the guy was white. At least no more lives or property will be placed in jeopardy. Yeah. I said that.

 

[Maggot]

=['/why did maggot have to post this divisive shit

Just for you. Wouldnt want you getting stale.

RE: Culpeppers post of too many rounds:

"You cant miss fast enough to win a gunfight...For fucks sake get out and practice." Not my quote.

maybe more training should be required for popo.

 

[Maggot]

What I would like to do is get 10 minutes alone with the shit stain that set all of this horrific mess into motion.

I think that statement is true for each one of us. But Id want more than 10 minutes.

 

[Skunk]

...... addressing how a 911 call from another state gets enough consideration to be considered as valid for the address given....

I guarantee the phone call appeared to have come from within the residence.... It's not like the police rushed over there after having received a call from a CA area code.

 

[diverdon]

The primary solution needed here is technical, addressing how a 911 call from another state gets enough consideration to be considered as valid for the address given.
The man shot did things he shouldn't have, but he also should have never been placed in the situation. I am sure his last thought was "WHAT THE FUCK?"
The police believed that the man had one dead and additional hostages, and had issued threats to kill them all and burn down the house. They were ramped way the hell in the wrong direction, but for what they thought were valid reasons.
I wouldn't want to be on either side of that situation. I'd get shot or I'd shoot, pretty much just like it went down.

What I would like to do is get 10 minutes alone with the shit stain that set all of this horrific mess into motion.
Thank God the guy was white. At least no more lives or property will be placed in jeopardy. Yeah. I said that.

Then you would be a murderer and a stupid one at that. Because at most with no supporting evidence the police should have only thought that it was possible that the guy was a murder with hostages. And even if that was the case in this situation they had no justification to shoot. Thousands of murders are arrested and put to trial every year.

 

[diverdon]

 

[QuickNDirty]

I don't know the circumstances on the ground in KS. So I can't say that the officer needs to be charged or not. But, damn... it does not look good.

The little a**-pirate in California needs to be charged with 1st degree and go to jail forever.

Spent more than a decade with SRT. We trained to be better than that. But some circumstances can create some really, really impossible options. I hope that the team was simply put in an impossible situation. And I am sure the officer is sick right now. As he should be.

So I won't hang the PD at this point. But, again, it's a tough situation for them.

The 911 caller.... well, unconstitutional cruel and unusual punishment seems kind of appropriate for that scum-weasel.

Sorry for the family, the department, the officer and the situation.

Sirhr

You know, as the temperature was dipping into the 30s and the rain was coming down on me as I sat patiently up in a tree waiting for a spike to come out, and also as I fish-tailed down the road on the way out, I thought to myself... That should at least be the swatting equivalent of aggravated assault in the best of cases where no one dies.

Me thinks new laws are in order specifically for sicking the police on people well beyond making a false report, but since these actions almost always end up with someone at the other end getting a gun pointed at them and have every reason to feel afraid for their lives and the lives of anyone near them, and the caller is essentially using the government as a weapon, I think an aggravated assault charge is in order, at minimum. Forge a fucked up circumstance with the intent of an armed response on another person, spend a few years or more in prison shithead.

I also speculate that the officer that shot that guy is having about the worst week of his life. One minute he was trying to be a hero, the next, the whole damn country is after his ass, and he knows he killed an innocent guy and took daddy away from his kids because some asshat in california pulled the wool over his eyes.

I'm really curious about how that situation went down.. Only vid I've seen is the one that shows them already set up by the car/truck and no officers near the house. I'd like to see from the time they arrived on scene, and would like to know why nobody was nearby to cuff him or at least tell if he had a gun or not, or to breech, or any of that shit swat teams usually do in hostage situations...

I mean, if they were there less than a couple of minutes or so, and they know this guy is waiting for them, I could see the shooter being pretty fucking jumpy when he comes walking out uninvited and makes fast hand movements.

Which goes to my previous point about being quiet initially. Why announce your presence with bright ass lights when there's a chance you could maneuver the team into position without anyone else knowing?

Is flashy tactical now?

 

[Tucker301]

I guarantee the phone call appeared to have come from within the residence.... It's not like the police rushed over there after having received a call from a CA area code.

Kind of my point.

 

[QuickNDirty]

The primary solution needed here is technical, addressing how a 911 call from another state gets enough consideration to be considered as valid for the address given.

That's a really tricky subject. At the end of the day, you, me, or anyone can place a phone call from any valid 10digit number to any other valid 10digit number. Doing so for the purposes of defrauding/causing harm to someone/organization is a violation of the Truth in Caller ID act. It's completely legitimate for a wide variety of other cases.

https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides...-and-caller-id

You can set up a trunk with vitelity or one of the dozen or so other carriers/aggregators and spoof all the calls you want (until someone complains and they cancel your account/possibly sue you) right now. I spoof thousands of calls a day test dialing newly added numbers to make sure shit carriers didn't fuck the routing up so that I don't get complaints from customers about numbers they just spent tons of money to publish in a magazine not working.

That being the case, it's a simple matter to google search the area code of the address asshat A gave to asshat B and completely fucking fabricate a number starting with that area code, e.g., 2812812812 or whatever. What happens from the LE perspective is, they go to the carrier that owns the spoofed number and ask wtf. If the spoofed number isn't __ACTUALLY__ spoofed, but is a number that asshat B bought for the purpose of making the prank, it ends there with a subpoena for registration info from the carrier.

If not, however, that carrier will say, "wtf you talking about, we don't see traffic from that number to the number in question". Then LE has to go to the carrier for their 911 center, ask wtf is up with this call. They'll see that the call originated from another carrier. They'll ask that carrier wtf, and that carrier will direct them to the originating carrier from their perspective, and so on, until you get back to vitelity who was the original originater (assuming that's what was used) at which point vitelity will be like, "Holy fuck, what, have subpoena? Ok here's all the subscriber information..."

If asshat B owned the number (not an actual spoof) he could even go so far as to set up E911 services on that number for asshat A and his bullshit address. THAT should cause a red flag to come up, since undoubtedly, there is a conflict that exists in that asshat A isn't known to live at the victims address. I'm guessing no one checks that, though.

It's very probable that all dispatch could see about the call was that they got a call from whatever number he spoofed, and possibly the registrant information for the spoofed number, which would definitely differ from the address being claimed in the call. If he chose a completely fake/unallocated number, then no information would show, and it would be just a call from a number with no information associated with it other than the number itself.

I get two or three complaints a year about people spoofing numbers I own. Always fun to receive letters from US DAO, but so far, zero have been our responsibility since anyone can spoof literally any number, and it's never our customers trying to robodial old people about their virused windows. It's just some fucking pajeet scammer blatantly disregarding our laws and all matters of decency, or asshat B getting an innocent man lit up infront of his family for no reason.

That was rambly and mostly correct. Don't go doing dumb shit.

E911 enables 911 centers to send help to your address when you call from a cell phone/virtual number. One problem with that is if you're not at your address when you dial 911. All they see is some bits of your registration info you provided to your carrier when you signed up.

I'm guessing that because the dispatcher was asking for the address, he spoofed an unallocated number.

 

[ArmyJerry]

a good coitizen should treat the cops as a threat , one that is armed and easily frightened, make the judgment if you are in fear for your life as needed.

that is basically what the he moved his hands, he did not comply crowd is telling the good citizens of our country, or the lets wait and see more evidence after watching video after video, or te lets put him on paid leave instead of a jail cell crowd.

it does not matter how it went down leading up to the execution of an unarmed, un threatening citizen, on his own porch, at night. Hell it should not matter if he is armed, if I see a shit ton of cops running around scared as hell outside my house I am arming up too, something must be really bad wrong and most of the cops couldn't hit shit if they had to. his hands moving, him not listening these are worn out gents, this cops and all like him need jailing, on the goddamn spot while the"investigation" happens from a state or federal level investigator with civilian oversight, that should take out the hero complex syndrome and it should trigger the weak and easily scared out of the departments.

 

[Maggot]

The only reply I could think of to that is this:

 

[ArmyJerry]

I got to say the primary point here is stop fuking shooting unarmed citizens, just fuking stop,

 

[Maggot]

I got to say the primary point here is stop fuking shooting unarmed citizens, just fuking stop,

Ive seen a direct correlation between the rise in shootings and the militarization of the police since we gave them all the gear after President Cheney's war. An attitude change. And youre right, it needs to stop.

Do you think it will?

 

[diverdon]

Just to go on a bit of a tangent, how many people know how to place a call and make it look like it is coming from a different number. I don't know how to do that, I asked my wife who is in IT and she does not know how to do that or how to find out how to do it (other than go on the darknet and spread around bitcoin until you can get someone to tell you.)

Now about three days a week I get a telemarketer calling my (do not call registered) cell phone, and for the last six month the calls have all seemed to be coming from within my area code. As far as I am concerned this is some serious shit that the feds should have put a stop to because they already monitor damm near every communication in this country, why not just go arrest these assholes and put them in jail until they stop. The news is full of stories about the old bomb threats this guy made. I hope some one hands the FBI a Freedom of Information act request to find out every thing they have on this guy. I'll bet the reason he was out of jail so he could pull this prank is because the FBI is too damm lazy to do its job.

 

[diverdon]

Ive seen a direct correlation between the rise in shootings and the militarization of the police since we gave them all the gear after President Cheney's war. An attitude change. And youre right, it needs to stop.

Do you think it will?

Earth to Maggot--- you are getting too far for the radio to reach, please come back inside lunar orbit.

 

[QuickNDirty]

Ive seen a direct correlation between the rise in shootings and the militarization of the police since we gave them all the gear after President Cheney's war. An attitude change. And youre right, it needs to stop.

Do you think it will?

no knock warrants was when it really started to pick up. There used to be a map of botched raids (wrong house, informant lied, etc) provided by the cato institute but it seems dead now. Staggering numbers of wrong address raids that ended up with innocent people getting fucked up for no reason.

 

[QuickNDirty]

Just to go on a bit of a tangent, how many people know how to place a call and make it look like it is coming from a different number. I don't know how to do that, I asked my wife who is in IT and she does not know how to do that or how to find out how to do it (other than go on the darknet and spread around bitcoin until you can get someone to tell you.)

Now about three days a week I get a telemarketer calling my (do not call registered) cell phone, and for the last six month the calls have all seemed to be coming from within my area code. As far as I am concerned this is some serious shit that the feds should have put a stop to because they already monitor damm near every communication in this country, why not just go arrest these assholes and put them in jail until they stop. The news is full of stories about the old bomb threats this guy made. I hope some one hands the FBI a Freedom of Information act request to find out every thing they have on this guy. I'll bet the reason he was out of jail so he could pull this prank is because the FBI is too damm lazy to do its job.

It's super easy. SSSSSSUUUUUPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRR easy.

I can call you right now from a number of your choosing. I actually have an API for dialing my personal phone voicemail when it's not in a coverage area since t-mobile switches to E164 number format when doing wifi calling for the source number which doesn't match their database for my cell number, so I have to spoof the call using the 10 digit number they expect, otherwise they think I'm someone trying to LEAVE a voicemail, not check voicemails.


Also see my post #92 about why the feds probably won't outlaw source number spoofing anytime soon. Many MANY legitimate businesses are founded on that capability being legal and free.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

There's about 900K sworn law enforcement officers in the U.S. If each one only has 2 interactions with a citizen a day (which is a very, very conservative estimate).. that's 650 million interactions between police and citizens a year. Some armed citizens. Most not. Some total dirtbags... most are not. Most interactions are as benign as traffic warnings or people asking for directions. Some are not.

This sort of thing happens a handful of times a year. More than 2/3rds of a billion interactions... and a handful of people are tragically killed.

In circumstances that should never happen. Ever. But they do. Because the numbers dictate that even in the best circumstances... bad things will happen a fraction of the time. Bad, often, for officers who end up dead. Bad for citizens who die at the hand of those who have sworn to protect them. Bad regardless.

But to say that police are trigger happy and shooting down citizens left and right... is just not realistic.

I'm not defending the officer... At least not until I understand what went down. As of now. I don't. And I don't trust the news. And I don't trust a video from one angle.

And I also have been in his shoes. Noone died. Not in my career at my hand. Training, situational awareness and, arguably, luck... Perhaps because I never got served a sh** sandwich that bad. Perhaps because I was good at what I did. More likely because my cards did not turn up aces and eights on that one bad, unthinkable occasion... and the odds were in my favor.

Almost 900K sworn officers can say that same thing every day, every week, every month and every year... and for most... like me... for their whole careers. The odds may be in favor of most in a profession where the numbers of positive interactions with the good, the bad and the ugly outweigh the negative.. But just because the odds are in your favor, does not mean that for a rare few, citizens and officers alike, the odds mean your number's up.

So I won't convict this guy based on what a bunch of reporters have to say. And I won't defend him if he is proved in the wrong. But I won't decide today. And I sure won't say that this is representative of a trend... or some kind of epidemic. It's not.

My two cents.

Sirhr