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Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find it funny that people are surprised there aren't any .308s in the list. The .308 hasn't be competitive in this sport for about 6 years.

Let this list wake alot of people from their internet 18" .308 trance</div></div>

Yes, because now that you have deemed the .308 inferior it no longer has a reason to exist. Actually the .308 was never the best. It's just a good all around caliber that isn't that expensive to shoot, and it has a lot of history which is nice too.

This forum has some incredibly condescending people.
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skeld1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find it funny that people are surprised there aren't any .308s in the list. The .308 hasn't be competitive in this sport for about 6 years.

Let this list wake alot of people from their internet 18" .308 trance</div></div>

Yes, because now that you have deemed the .308 inferior it no longer has a reason to exist. Actually the .308 was never the best. It's just a good all around caliber that isn't that expensive to shoot, and it has a lot of history which is nice too.

This forum has some incredibly condescending people.</div></div>

Did you discover condescending people when you looked in a mirror?

It's called "context" as in the context of tactical equipment used in matches by the country's top shooters. No one said the 308 sucked, or wasn't capable. They said it's not used in tactical matches because it's inferior in many way to many of the rounds out there.

I don't care who you are or how you shoot you're not going to do well, consistently with a 308.
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skeld1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find it funny that people are surprised there aren't any .308s in the list. The .308 hasn't be competitive in this sport for about 6 years.

Let this list wake alot of people from their internet 18" .308 trance</div></div>

Yes, because now that you have deemed the .308 inferior it no longer has a reason to exist. Actually the .308 was never the best. It's just a good all around caliber that isn't that expensive to shoot, and it has a lot of history which is nice too.

This forum has some incredibly condescending people.</div></div>

Did you discover condescending people when you looked in a mirror?

It's called "context" as in the context of tactical equipment used in matches by the countries top shooters. No one said the 308 sucked, or wasn't capable. They said it's not used in tactical matches because it's inferior in many way to many of the rounds out there.

I don't care who you are or how you shoot you're not going to do well, consistently with a 308. </div></div>

Well, then. No doubt you are an expert in condescension as well. Congrats.
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

No I never deemed anything. I have just been aromd long enough to see the game change. The 308 was the round of choice 10 years ago until the 260 started getting used more about 8 years ago and then it was on from there in the caliber race.

My comment wasn't condescending. It was sarcasm to all the comments when people ask about match rifles here and are told by people that don't shoot matches that an 18" 308 is all you need. This list shows its not.
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skeld1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skeld1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find it funny that people are surprised there aren't any .308s in the list. The .308 hasn't be competitive in this sport for about 6 years.

Let this list wake alot of people from their internet 18" .308 trance</div></div>

Yes, because now that you have deemed the .308 inferior it no longer has a reason to exist. Actually the .308 was never the best. It's just a good all around caliber that isn't that expensive to shoot, and it has a lot of history which is nice too.

This forum has some incredibly condescending people.</div></div>

Did you discover condescending people when you looked in a mirror?

It's called "context" as in the context of tactical equipment used in matches by the countries top shooters. No one said the 308 sucked, or wasn't capable. They said it's not used in tactical matches because it's inferior in many way to many of the rounds out there.

I don't care who you are or how you shoot you're not going to do well, consistently with a 308. </div></div>

Well, then. No doubt you are an expert in condescension as well. Congrats.</div></div>

Winners win
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No I never deemed anything. I have just been aromd long enough to see the game change. The 308 was the round of choice 10 years ago until the 260 started getting used more about 8 years ago and then it was on from there in the caliber race.

My comment wasn't condescending. It was sarcasm to all the comments when people ask about match rifles here and are told by people that don't shoot matches that an 18" 308 is all you need. This list shows its not. </div></div>

Fair enough. It seems to me the .308 has a place, but apparently competition isn't it at this point. That's the only point I was making.
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

Sure the 308 has a place. I use it as my practice round so I get more barrel life. It's a good round but don't expect to take one into this game and start winning matches.
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

That's cool. Sorry if I took your original post the wrong way.
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

I won a competition 2011 with my AI with the original barrel in .308, against a bunch of 6,5 mm, .243's and so on, but wind was moderate, I had great help from my spotter and alot of the stages were based on accuracy at mid range. Probably helped that I had a great, consistent load with Scenar 155's running at 2900 fps.

That being said, we all know that the .308's lacks ability to resist wind as well as drop compared to the little buggers such as the .243 105's, .264 140's and so on.

So what does that tell us? Is the .308 useless? No, its great for the following reasons;

- Good ammo can be purchased almost everywhere.
- Its possible to shoot an abundance if you can get hold of military stuff, and learning the basics without stretching too much with reloads.
- Very easy to start reloading, you will find a great tack driver if you use the right components without trying 4-5 different times.
- Easy to get hold of a competent stick that doesn't require a custom build, ready to go with removable magazine's and so on.

That being said, if you are looking at competing on a higher level, do the math, check ballistic programs and literature - it will tell you that you will have edge using another caliber than .308, especially if wind is heavy or targets are beyond mid range.
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

Don't forget barrel life. .308 has a barrel that lasts ages.
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

The condition of weight comes up for a "match" rifle and how some pros are leaning to graphite/lighter systems, so what is the target weight for a rifle?
Mr. LL mentioned a lighter chassis for a rifle (AI, I'm assuming) so 17-18 lb rifles are falling by the way side? Never could see the use for that heavy a rifle for anything other than a magnum anyhow with 12-14 being tops...

Pro input appreciated
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SFree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The condition of weight comes up for a "match" rifle and how some pros are leaning to graphite/lighter systems, so what is the target weight for a rifle?
Mr. LL mentioned a lighter chassis for a rifle (AI, I'm assuming) so 17-18 lb rifles are falling by the way side? Never could see the use for that heavy a rifle for anything other than a magnum anyhow with 12-14 being tops...

Pro input appreciated </div></div>

Within the Precision Rifle Series, I haven't seen much of a movement to lighter rifles. Recoil management from unstable shooting positions reigns over lighter rifles for the movement stages.
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

Wow this is some very good information. These charts really lay out the information well. I was able to learn a lot from this thread. I already new that the .308 was not as popular recently but I still could not believe that there wasn't a single .308 on the list. I guess that shows how little I know.
Thanks for all of this hard work and great info.
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

Well I guess if you are consumed by the world of civilian competition shooters the list might be of interest some how. To me it's the same as listing a bunch of NASCAR drivers or teams and all the sponsors that cater to each.

Sure there is some good equipment listed within the tables but it would never overly influence my decision of what to purchase to build a rifle.

Nothing against their sport all firearms sports are worthwhile especially in today's political gun rights climate.
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MSG Jano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I guess if you are consumed by the world of civilian competition shooters the list might be of interest some how. To me it's the same as listing a bunch of NASCAR drivers or teams and all the sponsors that cater to each.

Sure there is some good equipment listed within the tables but it would never overly influence my decision of what to purchase to build a rifle.

Nothing against their sport all firearms sports are worthwhile especially in today's political gun rights climate.
</div></div>

I, as well as others I'm sure, would love to hear what does influence your decisions.......and what is your sport?
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MSG Jano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I guess if you are consumed by the world of civilian competition shooters the list might be of interest some how. To me it's the same as listing a bunch of NASCAR drivers or teams and all the sponsors that cater to each.
</div></div>

Schmidt & Bender sponsors 23 of the competitors?

The dude who invented the 260 sponsors 12 of 'em?

Surgeon is putting out free 'sponsored' actions for half of these guys?

I don't know these guys, and I don't swim in the same circle by any stretch, and it seems like there are some sponsorships, but in cases where there's a clearly dominating equipment choice, that's likely to be for some other reason.

I don't mean to seem argumentative, and if I'm wrong (and the sponsorships are that pervasive), please let me know.
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

First, thanks for taking the time to put this together and share it, great information to see!

Since the topic has already been discussed in a “roundabout way”, I would throw out the following.

I find the topic of this thread “Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use”, and this series/type of matches, very interesting. I say that because IMHO they are “quasi tactical matches” shot for the most part by “quasi tactical shooters”. What I mean by “quasi” is they are based on “sporting or gaming”, and not necessarily the real world of LE or Military tactical operations.

Prime example, the majority of calibers used in these matches, are not in use by any real world LE or Military precision shooters. The discussion above about the fact that no one is using is a .308 caliber rifle is what made me post this. I would estimate that 80%-90% of LE Snipers, and 60%-70% of Military Snipers, are using a .308, with the balance being .223, .300WM, and .338LM, which are other calibers that no one is shooting in the PRS matches.

If you want to shoot “quasi tactical matches” on the weekend, then a 6xc, 6mm Creedmoor, or a .243 are fine. On the other hand, if you are a LE or Military precision shooter, and you are on the clock or deployed, then odds are it will be with .30 cal based rifle.

IMHO, the title of the series “Precision Rifle” is dead on and is a much better fit for what is going on. I don’t think the word “tactical” really has any place being associated with it because a large portion of the matches, like the calibers being used, are about as far from the real world of tactical operations as you can get.

I think the PRS is a great idea, and hopefully it will continue to develop and grow. That being the case, I would also hope that the difference between real world tactical operations and a weekend match are kept in perspective.

Thanks Again, Best of Luck,
M Richardson
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

Double Tap
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

Triple Tap
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

Cool thread. Bartlein and Hogdon ran away in the polls. Interesting to see that "none" was so high in the "type of brake used" also.
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

Which Defiance action do the top guys use? The Deviant?
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jephthai</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MSG Jano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I guess if you are consumed by the world of civilian competition shooters the list might be of interest some how. To me it's the same as listing a bunch of NASCAR drivers or teams and all the sponsors that cater to each.
</div></div>

Schmidt & Bender sponsors 23 of the competitors?

The dude who invented the 260 sponsors 12 of 'em?

Surgeon is putting out free 'sponsored' actions for half of these guys?

I don't know these guys, and I don't swim in the same circle by any stretch, and it seems like there are some sponsorships, but in cases where there's a clearly dominating equipment choice, that's likely to be for some other reason.

I don't mean to seem argumentative, and if I'm wrong (and the sponsorships are that pervasive), please let me know. </div></div>

S&B, 260Rem inventer, and Surgeon do not sponsor all or any of the shooters, most are not sponsored by anybody other than themselves, Wade(1) shoots for Surgeon, he chooses to use a S&B scope, Francis(9) shoots for Vortex, he cambers his rifles himself and chooses 260 as his caliper, Floyd(4) is out of pocket. In order to be competitive in the PRS you need to devote your time, your energy, and most of all your brain to shooting precision rifles, sponsorship comes from thousands of dollars and many thousands of hours to practice to be competitive, then and only then will someone offset your costs, racing or pro anything sport wise is the same.
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

There are few things that I believe need to be cleared up about the people in the PRS and about the sport of Precision Rifle matches or Tactical matches or whatever it is you would like to call it.

1. It is a sport and nothing more.
2. We don’t fancy ourselves as operators although I have had the honor to shoot with/against many operators/snipers at every match I have ever shot in.
3. No one that I am aware of makes a living doing this. Everybody has an everyday job and does this for fun.
4. Jason used the title “Tactical Shooters Equipment-What the pros use” as an eye catching phrase to draw viewership to a thread that has some great information. I know that it was never intended to be offensive to Pros who put their life on the line on a daily basis.
5. We all know that “it’s the Indian, not the arrow” but this list also shows that these are the “arrows” that the Indian chooses to use.




Dustin Morris
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the_fng</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Which Defiance action do the top guys use? The Deviant? </div></div>

Defiance makes custom actions for a few companies. A company or a smith will spec out an action and Defiance has the tools to make it to that spec. CNC tools are very expensive and way out of the price range of most shops so this is a way for a company or smith to have their own action.

Examples: Defiance machines Louisiana Precision Rifles' signature reciever and GAP's Templar action.

So to answer your question it could be a few different varieties.
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dustin Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are few things that I believe need to be cleared up about the people in the PRS and about the sport of Precision Rifle matches or Tactical matches or whatever it is you would like to call it.

1. It is a sport and nothing more.
2. We don’t fancy ourselves as operators although I have had the honor to shoot with/against many operators/snipers at every match I have ever shot in.
3. No one that I am aware of makes a living doing this. Everybody has an everyday job and does this for fun.
4. Jason used the title “Tactical Shooters Equipment-What the pros use” as an eye catching phrase to draw viewership to a thread that has some great information. I know that it was never intended to be offensive to Pros who put their life on the line on a daily basis.
5. We all know that “it’s the Indian, not the arrow” but this list also shows that these are the “arrows” that the Indian chooses to use.




Dustin Morris
</div></div>


nail-head/thread
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dustin Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are few things that I believe need to be cleared up about the people in the PRS and about the sport of Precision Rifle matches or Tactical matches or whatever it is you would like to call it.

1. It is a sport and nothing more.
2. We don’t fancy ourselves as operators although I have had the honor to shoot with/against many operators/snipers at every match I have ever shot in.
3. No one that I am aware of makes a living doing this. Everybody has an everyday job and does this for fun.
4. Jason used the title “Tactical Shooters Equipment-What the pros use” as an eye catching phrase to draw viewership to a thread that has some great information. I know that it was never intended to be offensive to Pros who put their life on the line on a daily basis.
5. We all know that “it’s the Indian, not the arrow” but this list also shows that these are the “arrows” that the Indian chooses to use.




Dustin Morris
</div></div>

Great Post!
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

Interesting to see the proportion of tree stype reticles vs non tree reticles (espc the horus). Is this because dialing in elevation and windage is better for this kind of shooting?
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captrichardson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I find the topic of this thread “Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use”, and this series/type of matches, very interesting. I say that because IMHO they are “quasi tactical matches” shot for the most part by “quasi tactical shooters”. What I mean by “quasi” is they are based on “sporting or gaming”, and not necessarily the real world of LE or Military tactical operations.

Prime example, the majority of calibers used in these matches, are not in use by any real world LE or Military precision shooters. The discussion above about the fact that no one is using is a .308 caliber rifle is what made me post this. I would estimate that 80%-90% of LE Snipers, and 60%-70% of Military Snipers, are using a .308, with the balance being .223, .300WM, and .338LM, which are other calibers that no one is shooting in the PRS matches.

If you want to shoot “quasi tactical matches” on the weekend, then a 6xc, 6mm Creedmoor, or a .243 are fine. On the other hand, if you are a LE or Military precision shooter, and you are on the clock or deployed, then odds are it will be with .30 cal based rifle.

IMHO, the title of the series “Precision Rifle” is dead on and is a much better fit for what is going on. I don’t think the word “tactical” really has any place being associated with it because a large portion of the matches, like the calibers being used, are about as far from the real world of tactical operations as you can get.

I think the PRS is a great idea, and hopefully it will continue to develop and grow. That being the case, I would also hope that the difference between real world tactical operations and a weekend match are kept in perspective.

Thanks Again, Best of Luck,
M Richardson </div></div>

Military & LE use a lot of substandard tools.....I don't understand the point to this observation.
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RufDog</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captrichardson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

</div></div>

Military & LE use a lot of substandard tools.....I don't understand the point to this observation.

</div></div>

I would agree with you in most cases with regard to the equipment issued to Mil and LE members compared to civillian offerings. I see the precision/long range rifle area as one area where the gap between the civilian market and gov't issue gear is either very small or non-existent. Sure the civilian side is usually leading the way with the latest and greatest in gear, but there are many LR related items available to the military that civlians either can't get or typically can't afford. It seems the biggest gap between what is being used by the Mil/LE users and the competition crowd is simply caliber selection. For the Mil/LE side caliber selection is dictated by more than just performance, but also prectical issues such as availability and service life. I don't really see what is so substandard about the current military LR gear? But hey, I just shoot for fun, so I could be wrong.
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

remember it's not what you post its who posts what
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

Well there goes my 308 build, time to start looking at 6mm
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STI_1911_Guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">remember it's not what you post its who posts what </div></div>

That is a VERY good observation!
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

I'm going to stay with my .308 for now.... if i have to change anything out it will be the barrel, and I guess that I'll be looking into the .260.
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elephantrider</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RufDog</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captrichardson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

</div></div>

Military & LE use a lot of substandard tools.....I don't understand the point to this observation.

</div></div>

I would agree with you in most cases with regard to the equipment issued to Mil and LE members compared to civillian offerings. I see the precision/long range rifle area as one area where the gap between the civilian market and gov't issue gear is either very small or non-existent. Sure the civilian side is usually leading the way with the latest and greatest in gear, but there are many LR related items available to the military that civlians either can't get or typically can't afford. It seems the biggest gap between what is being used by the Mil/LE users and the competition crowd is simply caliber selection. For the Mil/LE side caliber selection is dictated by more than just performance, but also prectical issues such as availability and service life. I don't really see what is so substandard about the current military LR gear? But hey, I just shoot for fun, so I could be wrong. </div></div>

There are a whole pile of observations that can be made. Lets narrow this LR civ/mil shooting down to guns & optics for parameters. Furthermore, lets put high budget teams to the side; the reason I suggest this is due to the lack of channels & budget, they are able to procure things that arent exactly "issue items".

Boltguns: Rem 700/40x
Gas Guns: Knights
Optics: Leupold (Marines S&B) Night vision is irrelevant.
There is nothing (that is relevant) that a civilian cant get. Like Rob & others, I've had them in my hands for years working in the field (& still am). They are alright. Not terrible, not great. The Leupold optics have been embarrassing. The reticles are WAY behind the times. None of us would choose (in most instances) these set-ups.
Cartridges:
308 primarily
There are a few 300s & 338s & of course the .50.

This stuff is slow to change. We may never get away from the 308 as the primary cartridge. It is lacking. There are better SA cartridges. CaptRichardson is right that the mil/le isnt using what competitive shooters use but its not exactly a choice they get to make. That doenst make the 308 (or the accepted mil/le cartridges) better than what it is simply because Mil/Le is using it. Obviously, it can work as it has for years. *(An idea for a MD would be to have a category for guns that are similar to military. Restrict it to 223/308 & maybe restrict barrel length/velocity & optic as well. That would give such folks an avenue to compete with work gear & be competitive within their own division.)

As far as the term "tactical" i dont care, its practically a civilian term now-a-days. As a matter of keeping things in perspective; I take particular interest to that line. There have been enough documentaries to make the public generally aware that "sniping" is more than just shooting. It can be equally said that the qualifications shot by uniformed persons don't necessarily reflect, or keep in perspective, what they really do. Very often when a non competitive shooter (esp mil or le) is faced with talking shop with a competitive shooter this comes up. Everyone gets gets it, but in an effort to fairly examine things we have to keep to just the shooting part. Military snipers would be very well served to shoot these types of matches in an effort to stay tuned up or improve. A better trained or better practiced person is just that. Shooting competitively has helped me be a better shooter.
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

I wish there was a think for the Trigger as well. I'm trying to see how many shooters use Jewell vs others.

Also, I was looking at some of the pictures. I see some over the ear ear protection.... are those the MSA/Sordins?
 
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

Makes me want to slap the ol 243 barrel back on the aw and sling some dtacs... Oh well I still love my 308 though.
 
Interesting reading on the charts as to what these guys use as far as optics............. only one out of 60 uses a NIGHTFORCE..... By far the most used is S&B. I would have thought that Nightforce would have had a bigger presence.
 
I am not even close to ever competing on this level. For me the 308 is a good caliber. Common caliber that's widely available works for me. I will just keep buying my ammo from Black Hills as it's good enough for me.

But in the last couple of years I have heard way to many 16" to 18" 308 fans and I have felt like an oddball for advocating longer barrels for the 308. At least the folks on this thread understand that the 308 short barrel fad has it's limits. I was begining to wonder if I was the only one who thought this short barrel fad was out of line.

Thanks for the info.
 
Well, I have a 308 into Savage right now for some work I might ask them to drop a 260 5 R barrel on it and see how it shoots, I have two other 308s and a 300WSM in case the shtf and I need the bullet mass to penetrate hardened targets.
 
What are the JEC brakes, what do they look like and who makes them?
 
if there was a match where everyone was issued the same rifle and same ammo you would see the same names at the top of the list. That's a fact.

I know a bunch of us on here shot a match a few years ago at Rifles Only. This match was a .308 only match shooting Corbon 175 gr bullets. The match was put together due to people crying about other competitors who used cartridges like the .260. This was supposed to put everyone on the same playing field. The problem was is certain rifles shot that particular load better than others. It was still a fun match. Like I said earlier, the same people finished towards the top.
 
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