Talk to me about 358 Winchester

[mjspeers]

Iowa has weird dee hunting laws. Has to be bullet diameter of more than .35”. I have an ARC CdG short action and was considering getting a short 358 win barrel for hunting out of blinds. Like 16.5” with a suppressor.

It’s Iowa deer hunting so typical shots are under 200 but on occasion stretch things out. Also May be used for a youth gun. If I really want to reach out I have other guns for that. So I’d probably develop a real light load. I do handload. I have 350 legend but don’t have any true .358 bullets. Would love a .358 pilot for my Henderson but don’t think they have them yet.

What are your experiences? What bullets and velocities might I expect?

 

[Edds]

What are your experiences?

Several years ago, I shot a Prairie Dog in Wyoming with one. No tracking was required.

 

[wvfarrier]

I had a Winchester rebuilt by Regan Nonneman for 358 Win. That round is absolute Hammer. Knocks the soul right out of critters. It is superior to 30-30 in every way IMHO. Now, with all the newer copper projectiles its even better.

 

[mjspeers]

Is all copper the way to go? I see Barnes makes a 180. I’d be restricted by an AIAW magazine for length?

 

[.505gibbs]

I live in Iowa too and hopped on the .358 bandwagon. I’m really liking the Barnes 180 ttsx, my gun has a 22 inch tube and I’m able to get them into the 2750 fps range with H 335. I also played with the Hornady 200 ftx and Win 748, I’m able to get these to 2550 or so. Either one and it is a very capable 300 yard and more deer rifle.
People think the .358 Win and .35 Whelen are “brush” guns. In my experience either one of them loaded properly is a great all purpose rifle.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

358 Win with a 200 grain Hornady SP will kill deer dead all day long. Load it up over TAC and go fill an ark....

 

[mjspeers]

358 Win with a 200 grain Hornady SP will kill deer dead all day long. Load it up over TAC and go fill an ark....

Is TAC the go to powder even for 180s?

 

[XTREM HTR16]

I've used it for both the 180 and 200, yes.

 

[tomme boy]

I inherited a 350 Rem Mag. It is a 600 guide series with the laminated stock and ventilated rib on the barrel. It has exactly 52 rds through it. My FIL recorded every shot he took with his guns. I might use it this year to deer hunt as he always wanted to here in Iowa with it but could not. He shot several Elk with it out in Colorado and New Mexico back in the 70's

 

[45-90]

Today, I shot over a hundred rds of test reloads in 358 Winchester AR 10 16". I handloaded bullets from 50 9mm copper gr to 250 gr lead. Looking at bunny loads with the 9 mm pistol bullets, most were hollow points at 2850 to 3000 fps 50 gr copper, 105 gr Guard Dog, 124 gr HST, 155 FMJ. Then the 350 Legend 160 gr bullet that is .357" in dia velocities 2800 to 2900 fps, then the 358" 200& 250 gr Hornady & WW 250 gr Power Points. The 200 gr was running 2350 fps, and top velocity for the 250 gr was almost as good with 2325, primers were flat this is definitely a max load for Leverevolution in a 16" AR. These were range pickup and reformed military 308. Accuracy was surprisingly good for the test, including the pistol bullets. I have used TAC, RL 7, and Leverevolution. And 350 Legend 160 gr bullets are accurate, for light recoil, okay for deer. The 50 gr copper 9mm I thought would be really fast but only reached 3000 fps, as powders selected for the task was too slow. A productive and fun day.

 

[Jabberjaw]

I've owned and hunted with the .358 for over 25yrs and love the cartridge. I have two rifles chambered in it now, a steel receiver BLR and a SS M77 Hawkeye. I've taken deer , hog and black bear using one or the other of the rifles and using 200, 225 or 250gr loads.

I've pretty much settled on using a 225gr load now by BB at a hair under 2550 FPS at the muzzle. This load carries 1500 FPE to 350 yards. I've also used a 250gr Grand Slam for hogs and my SIL used the Hawkeye with 250s to take a 150" Tn buck. Both the hog and the buck dropped at the shot.

I like the 250 for close ranges, but the trajectories are a bit steep looking 200+ yards. I passed up a shot on a big Georgia boar that was a bit under 300 yards when my quick figuring came up with 15+" of drop with the zero I'd used for a bear hunt a few months prior.

For deer, I'd look at 180gr JFN, 200gr RN or SP, 220gr JFN or the fine Sierra 225gr Spitzer. I've seen companies claim 27-2800 with those 180s and I'm sure they would absolutely do a bang-up job on deer.

The .358 is a great round, try it, you'll like it!

 

[FNG1001]

Iowa has weird dee hunting laws. Has to be bullet diameter of more than .35”. I have an ARC CdG short action and was considering getting a short 358 win barrel for hunting out of blinds. Like 16.5” with a suppressor.

It’s Iowa deer hunting so typical shots are under 200 but on occasion stretch things out. Also May be used for a youth gun. If I really want to reach out I have other guns for that. So I’d probably develop a real light load. I do handload. I have 350 legend but don’t have any true .358 bullets. Would love a .358 pilot for my Henderson but don’t think they have them yet.

What are your experiences? What bullets and velocities might I expect?

 

[wvfarrier]

With the newer all copper 338's, the 338 Fed is another excellent option. I prefer it over 358 and 308.

 

[evilsemaj]

With the newer all copper 338's, the 338 Fed is another excellent option. I prefer it over 358 and 308.

Unfortunately OP said his state hunting laws require bullet diameter over .35 so .338 isn't an option.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

I inherited a 350 Rem Mag. It is a 600 guide series with the laminated stock and ventilated rib on the barrel. It has exactly 52 rds through it. My FIL recorded every shot he took with his guns. I might use it this year to deer hunt as he always wanted to here in Iowa with it but could not. He shot several Elk with it out in Colorado and New Mexico back in the 70's

Becoming a collector’s item for sure. Everyone who used them, loved them. XP-100 - 600-660 actions are as stout as Remington ever made and were made when Remington was a well made firearm.

However, if you have not yet shot your ”little” 600, be sure to wear an extra shirt….The biggest complain anyone ever had about the 350 Remington in a 600 was Recoil!

 

[45-90]

Becoming a collector’s item for sure. Everyone who used them, loved them. XP-100 - 600-660 actions are as stout as Remington ever made and were made when Remington was a well made firearm.

However, if you have not yet shot your ”little” 600, be sure to wear an extra shirt….The biggest complain anyone ever had about the 350 Remington in a 600 was Recoil!

I am a big 350 Rem Mag fan for hunting in a bolt gun, and 358 fan in AR 10.
I have the Remington model 7 20" barrel a more attractive rifle IMO standard M 7 short action no dog leg bolt, walnut stock, blued steel.
Mine is heavily modified, glass alum pillar bedded, barrel removed and threaded for s muzzle brake, bolt re silver brazed for better timing, tactical bolt handle, magazine altered to feed 2.920" cartridges. It has excellent accuracy and close to 338 win mag performance especially when the 20" is considered. 250 gr bullets at 2626 fps , 200 at 2960 fps, 225s, 2750 to 2800 fps depending on bullet, 280 gr Swift 2450 fps, or 310 gr Woodleigh at 2250 fps. Light handy, accurate 1" 3 shots at 330 yards 225 Barns. Used to practice out to 450 yds on small rocks in a grassy mountain medow. And recoil IMO was very manageable...added the Precision Armorment severe duty brake and it can be shot all afternoon. Brass is easily made out of any magnum 7mm and 338 are easiest. The 300 Win mag or 300 H&H requires neck turning, and neck boring in a lathe makes a slick 350 Rem Mag case capable of fine accuracy. Drop max power charges in these longer reformed cases about one grain.

 

[Pacific Fisher]

A funny story abut a 358 Winchester.
I think me and my neighbor kid were around nine years old. His dad had a Winchester lever action in 358, called it his Bear rifle. One day when the parents were at work we snuck it and two cartridges out by his garage. Somehow it was decided that I would shot first. I held it up to my shoulder, fired and my world exploded. It kicked me like a Mule, leaves fell out of the gutter, and my ears were ringing. My buddy said, "how did it feel" I handed it to him with a little tear in my eye and said, "not too bad", He took his shot and we quietly put it back in his Dad's gun rack and never talked about it again.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Iowa has weird dee hunting laws. Has to be bullet diameter of more than .35”. I have an ARC CdG short action and was considering getting a short 358 win barrel for hunting out of blinds. Like 16.5” with a suppressor.

It’s Iowa deer hunting so typical shots are under 200 but on occasion stretch things out. Also May be used for a youth gun. If I really want to reach out I have other guns for that. So I’d probably develop a real light load. I do handload. I have 350 legend but don’t have any true .358 bullets. Would love a .358 pilot for my Henderson but don’t think they have them yet.

What are your experiences? What bullets and velocities might I expect?

Does it need to be a strait wall? 35 Rem? 35 Rem Mag? 35 Whelen?

My buddy has a .356 Win, which was long discontinued and finding ammo is impossible. Even brass and bullets are rare.

I don't like to discourage buying new guns, but the 350 legend is good out to about 250-275 with a long barrel and good bullets. I have a 22" and a 16" for this reason. Factory ammo is good and cheap enough to not have to add another caliber to reload for.

 

[45-90]

The 356 win brass is similar to the 358 win without the rim. Like the 307 and 308 win.
A 308 case will make them all. Headspace off the shoulder instead of the cartridge rim.slowly size a 358 to fit a 356 chamber headspacing off the shoulder, see if the extractor will pull the case out of the chamber with a little less brass to grab in the rim. Or ya have to tap it out with a cleaning rod...if it slips off. If the extractor works your done. You have a rimless 356 Win.
You can modify the extractor, too.
I'm almost never out if brass ...30 Rem can be made out of 30-30 here you remove the rim and cut a new extractor groove. Make 35 Rem out of 308, 6mm ARC out of 308 brass are more drastic examples. But I also have a lathe and a full set of collets, grind tools to cut extractor grooves.
A common 7.62x54 R Russian will work, if it's a brass case, with some lathe work and a forming die. Or any big mag case can be recut and reformed. Adapt and over come, so you're never out of brass..

 

[mjspeers]

Does it need to be a strait wall? 35 Rem? 35 Rem Mag? 35 Whelen?

My buddy has a .356 Win, which was long discontinued and finding ammo is impossible. Even brass and bullets are rare.

I don't like to discourage buying new guns, but the 350 legend is good out to about 250-275 with a long barrel and good bullets. I have a 22" and a 16" for this reason. Factory ammo is good and cheap enough to not have to add another caliber to reload for.

It does not have to be straight wall, anymore. .35”-.50” with certain velocity/energy requirements.

I have found 350 legend to be pretty anemic, but have really only killed deer with less than 18”. It’s not that I’ve lost deer, they just don’t seem to die like they should for the weight of the bullet and where the deer were hit.

 

[45-90]

It does not have to be straight wall, anymore. .35”-.50” with certain velocity/energy requirements.

I have found 350 legend to be pretty anemic, but have really only killed deer with less than 18”. It’s not that I’ve lost deer, they just don’t seem to die like they should for the weight of the bullet and where the deer were hit.

Get a 350 Rem mag, model 7 bolt 20" barrel light, handy, Barns manual#4 p322 for 20" barrel and chronographed accurate by me.. Hand load 200 gr Barns to 2940 fps, brass easy made easy, from other mag brass but 7mm Rem and 338 mag. 300 win mag even 300H&H before it was rare...should be neck turned...but I neck turn em all on a lathe. Then ya have 225 gr Sierra, 225 gr Barns, and 225 gr nosler pair, at 2750 fps. With good BC for longer shots Move up to 250 at 2625 fps, 280 Swift A-frame 2450 fps and 310 Woodleigh weld core at 2260 fps for hard to penetrate deer. Mine loves the 225 gr Barns at 2750 fps and Tac powder. MR 2000MR for the 250 gr for almost 338 Mag performance, in factory ammo, especially if the bsrrel was only 20". Mine is altered to my liking and Alum pillar and glass bedded. With a mag box altered to feed 2.910" cartridges, and a tactical bolt knob. And it's accurate.
But a box stock one will shoot the Barns 200 at 2940 fps at 2.8" mag length. Hornadys 200gr plastic tip will flatten a deer at the same speed with the same powder charge...for large exit wounds. And you'll get alot more range than the 350 Legend.
Insisting on Auto loader the 358 win can be had in an ar 10 platform with a 16" barrel for improved performance over the 350 Legend ...if you handload brass is free in range pickup or LC as I shoot in mine. Mandrel the 308 to 35 and run through a Lee sizing die ..cheap..losing 358 brass is no big deal. 9mm, 357 mag , 358 rifle and 350 Legend bullets can be used for cheap practice, plinking, and small game. 10 cent bulk pulled 147 HST 9mm bullets in 500 lots will keep your 358 Win shooting. Like the 357 Mag pistol bullets for 350 Rem mag fire forming and plinking. Both good choices and fun. My preference goes to the 350 Mag for hunting as it has more range an power for most anything I would encounter in the mountains. But nothing like a 20 rd mag of 358 Win 200 gr soft points. out of your AR 10, to deter a home invasion, or a charging deer, ..or angry squirrel.

 

[45-90]

A break in the heat wave, gave me a chance to shoot 4 different rifles, for experimental purposes... So a 358 Win "bunny load" mentioned for the 358 Win. So I put one together this proved to be rather successful...a 358 Win AR 10 16" barrel top velocity was 3766 fps, and accurate at fifty yds with a light 9mm pistol bullet. I was thinking 4000 fps might be possible with this bullet, but maybe a little optimistic in a 16" barrel, but I ain't done with the testing yet. The 358Win isn't known for its high velocity. And 250 gr were 2313 fps with Leverevolution in a 16" AR, for a more serious 358 Win load.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Make 35 Rem out of 308

Interested in this process. Can you elaborate please?

 

[45-90]

Interested in this process. Can you elaborate please?

308 LC brass to 35 Rem, lube with Lee resizing lube, run through 44 mag Lee carbide sizing die, run through special body reducing die, mine says 25-06, old unused and cut back in a lathe with a carbide tool, maybe .150" to .2" to reduce the 308 case body closer to 35 Rem. Then Lee 35 Remington die, then Lee 44 mag carbide to set the case head from spring back
Use the Wilson case gauge. The case rim is .007" or. 008" to big, and extractor groove slightly over like .003" but neither with most likely affect chambering ...if the do it must be addressed for your rifle.. measure 308 cases for head dia and extractor groove size use Win cases tend to be on the small size .467 instead of .470 and extract grooves down to .402 to .404, LC has .402 also. .400" is 35 Rem use these 308 case to 35 Rem. I used a lathe to cut the steel away from the carbide ring in the 44 mag die to expose it, about .060 and cut the shell holder down in the lathe, to get a complete resize of the case head. ..remember to bring the press handle to the top of tbe stroke insert a .002" feeler gauge screw the 44 mag carbide die on top of the feeler gauge for clearence..or you'll fracture the carbide sizing ring... lots easier than explaining it... the 44 mag carbide die and the cut off 25-06 body reducing die are the keys.
Edit...The opening statement said 358 win cause I also work with that from 308, but changed it to 35 Rem as described in the text, sorry for any confusion.

 

[ChrisAU]

Can't let a 358W thread go without me showing mine off. Kimber Hunter 243 that has changed a bit. Weighs right around 5 lbs all-up. 16.5" barrel.

 

[45-90]

Can't let a 358W thread go without me showing mine off. Kimber Hunter 243 that has changed a bit. Weighs right around 5 lbs all-up. 16.5" barrel.

View attachment 8187738

Factory Winchester super X ammo 100 gr bullets chronographed from a 16" 243 Win were traveling 2488 fps for 1374 ft/ lbs of muzzle energy...just above the energy of the 223 with a longer barrel...making it suitable energy wise as a 100 yard deer rifle, with only 1000 ft/lbs. By contrast I hand load the 358 Win to 3000 ft lbs at the muzzle in a 16" AR 10. The 358 delivers alot more energy to the target...increasing the effective killing range over the 243...even with factory "hunting" cartridges in both. Long barrels make the 6mm high velocity, match bullets help them keep that velocity....and those guys shoot deer at longer ranges with the match bullets...but they are not hunting bullets.
I have long barreled 6mm Dasher for long range target, it'd probably kill a deer at the 1000 ft/lb distance or farther with match bullets...but pure factory hunting instruments and hunting ammo carried in the field the 358Win brings the energy at "normal" hunting ranges of average hunters ..but long range target shooting where energy and its killing effectiveness are not a concern but accuracy and high velocity, with high BC target bullets, fired from long barrels, the 6 mm calibers really shine, and good past 1000 yds ...for target shooting...but then some guys use the long barreled target bullet 6mm combo on 600 yd deer, and proclaim it "the best"...

 

[cas6969]

I decided a few months ago that I need a 600 / 660 in .350 Rem Mag as a hunting rifle, and before I'm too old to shoot it. I sure don't NEED it. lmao
(Heck I've had a .375-06 for almost 25 years now and still haven't taken it in the woods.)

Always respected and admired the .358Win, but never ran across it in any rifle that interested me.
I've clobbered a few deer with a .358JDJ, so I know it certainly does the job. (180gr Hornady Single Shot Pistol Bullets (which I don't even know if the make anymore) @2400)

 

[rlsmith1]

Following as I’m in Iowa too. I may do a different flavor of 35 cal but interested to see how this works for you!

 

[45-90]

I decided a few months ago that I need a 600 / 660 in .350 Rem Mag as a hunting rifle, and before I'm too old to shoot it. I sure don't NEED it. lmao
(Heck I've had a .375-06 for almost 25 years now and still haven't taken it in the woods.)

Always respected and admired the .358Win, but never ran across it in any rifle that interested me.
I've clobbered a few deer with a .358JDJ, so I know it certainly does the job. (180gr Hornady Single Shot Pistol Bullets (which I don't even know if the make anymore) @2400)

The 350 mag is a favorite, mine is a altered Rem model 7. I added a muzzle brake so I can shoot a hundred rds through it. Accurate enough to be used as a varmint rifle, pillar bedded. Brass easily made out of Rem 7mm mag or 338 win. I have new orginial 350 Rem brass, plus Nosler, and the home formed. I have a few thousand rds through mine and an empty box of 1000 Remington Corlokt bullets. By far the most fired magnum rifle I own. Dare to experiment all the way up to the 310 gr Woodleigh, for backyard elephant.
Plus light if ya don't over scope it, fast handling, lots of power, to drop big game instantly, at reasonable ranges, so ya don't over exert yourself tracking down wounded game....perfect for an old guy wondering through the woods.

 

[ChrisAU]

Factory Winchester super X ammo 100 gr bullets chronographed from a 16" 243 Win were traveling 2488 fps for 1374 ft/ lbs of muzzle energy...just above the energy of the 223 with a longer barrel...making it suitable energy wise as a 100 yard deer rifle, with only 1000 ft/lbs. By contrast I hand load the 358 Win to 3000 ft lbs at the muzzle in a 16" AR 10. The 358 delivers alot more energy to the target...increasing the effective killing range over the 243...even with factory "hunting" cartridges in both. Long barrels make the 6mm high velocity, match bullets help them keep that velocity....and those guys shoot deer at longer ranges with the match bullets...but they are not hunting bullets.
I have long barreled 6mm Dasher for long range target, it'd probably kill a deer at the 1000 ft/lb distance or farther with match bullets...but pure factory hunting instruments and hunting ammo carried in the field the 358Win brings the energy at "normal" hunting ranges of average hunters ..but long range target shooting where energy and its killing effectiveness are not a concern but accuracy and high velocity, with high BC target bullets, fired from long barrels, the 6 mm calibers really shine, and good past 1000 yds ...for target shooting...but then some guys use the long barreled target bullet 6mm combo on 600 yd deer, and proclaim it "the best"...

Yeah I’m just shooting factory Winchester. I haven’t chrono’d it - I take it hunting when I sit in the ground where a 50 yard shot will be a long shot. Hasn’t killed yet, hoping this is the year.

 

[Mike Casselton]

I'm just disappointed that someone hasn't chimed in about necking up the 6.5 PRC to 358.


Actually, I'm not. So much nonsense lately about old Fudd cartridges and how the new stuff is better.

Bullshit!

Go ahead, build that 6.5, 7 or 300 PRC and deal with the extraction issues.
I'll keep shooting my old Fuddy belted magnums and have 1 finger bolt lift. Not only that, but I can find the dies, powder and brass.


Thanks to the OP for starting this thread.
Yaaaay to some actual recoil.

 

[Edds]

Go ahead, build that 6.5, 7 or 300 PRC and deal with the extraction issues.

What are the extraction issues?

I have been considering a 9.3mm-6.5 PRC.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Nothing with new brass. It seems to happen to a lot of people after 3 or 4 reloads.
Alex Wheeler has worked this issue and seems to have a fix for it.
Hell, it could be caused but velocity chasing and overloads.
I don't own anything that uses the 404 Jeffrey as the parent case. Although, I really do like the idea of the 300 WSM.
I have a 300 Win, so no real need to duplicate it here at home.

 

[Edds]

Nothing with new brass. It seems to happen to a lot of people after 3 or 4 reloads.
Alex Wheeler has worked this issue and seems to have a fix for it.
Hell, it could be caused but velocity chasing and overloads.
I don't own anything that uses the 404 Jeffrey as the parent case. Although, I really do like the idea of the 300 WSM.
I have a 300 Win, so no real need to duplicate it here at home.

You must be referring to clickers, that issue is easily resolved.

The PRC cartridges don't use the same case as a WSM or a 404 Jeffery.

 

[45-90]

I'm just disappointed that someone hasn't chimed in about necking up the 6.5 PRC to 358.


Actually, I'm not. So much nonsense lately about old Fudd cartridges and how the new stuff is better.

Bullshit!

Go ahead, build that 6.5, 7 or 300 PRC and deal with the extraction issues.
I'll keep shooting my old Fuddy belted magnums and have 1 finger bolt lift. Not only that, but I can find the dies, powder and brass.


Thanks to the OP for starting this thread.
Yaaaay to some actual recoil.

Well, just get a standard 350 Rem Mag...the 350 Rem Mag case has slightly more case capacity, than the 6.5 PRC case, you'd have to use the WSM case for more performance and the 350 Rem Mag easily made brass from 7mm mag & 338 Win mag. Also the 6.5 Rem Mag has slightly more case capacity than the 6.5 PRC...making the 6.5 PRC slightly inferior. Way back in the day the 6.5 Rem Mag was used by a sucessfull 1000yds competitor who Shell remain nameless, who later competed against Tubb...there was some controversy around the winner at extreme range when Tubb lost...
So the 6.5 PRC is just the old 6.5 Rem Mag reintroduced without a belt and slightly less capacity, and heavily promoted, by Hormady...they are nothing new. WSM offer more, Dakota, CIL mag line, and Lazzorni offered more..plus a host others, ...all previous to the Hornady scene. Brain washing type promotional advertising is the difference. Chronographed factory loads are unimpressive across the Hornady line...not that they are bad, I own a few, ...just the hype vs the reality difference.
Even the new hybrid SS case heads are not new, that Sig has sold to the military, but were briefly introduced over 20 yrs ago.
Cartridge rifle technology hasn't really improved since smokless powder.

 

[Mike Casselton]

It's been reinventing the wheel since I started down this road a long time ago.
Hell, look at the 25 Creed.
It's a 250 Savage Improved (not Ackley) from early last century. The only notable difference is twist rate and projectile design.

What's old is new, and what's new is old.

 

[45-90]

Yes, gotta convince the young guys this is the best "new cartridge design" and you must have them, to be a great shot in the "new" long range shooting sports. None of it new, LR or the cartridges....when actually Hornady had these cases that didn't sell well in their original calibers, but just necked em down, or shortened them...put a huge propaganda campaign behind them to permote them...but in reality, none of it new, and none of it superior...

 

[ddavis]

What are the extraction issues?

I have been considering a 9.3mm-6.5 PRC.

I've had a few 9.3s. Wish bullets were more more available. I have a short action that I want to turn into a heavy hitting magnum and was surprised to find there's no 35, 375, or 458 based on the WSM cases unless you go full wildcat. A 375 or 458 short action magnum would be neat.

 

[45-90]

I've had a few 9.3s. Wish bullets were more more available. I have a short action that I want to turn into a heavy hitting magnum and was surprised to find there's no 35, 375, or 458 based on the WSM cases unless you go full wildcat. A 375 or 458 short action magnum would be neat.

A WSM case would be one of the better one for these 35 Thru 458 short mags IMO...but all that's been done too. Plus the 325 WSM is available...The 458 American or 458 ×2 Barns, 284 win X 375, the 35 WSM, and the commercially available 325 WSM, all by itself or neck it up,... easy.