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The airing of grievances and the response.

I listened to the "other podcast"... I think Pynch is kicking himself in the nuts by basically saying Frank and Mike are nobody's. I think the thing that ticked me off about this is as far as I know Pynch hasn't given ANYTHING to this community like Mike and Frank.. I can say the podcast, vids and the forum are not only fun to listen to but are packed with info on products and techniques..

Also not sure if you guys have heard the NRL podcast with Pynch but he couldn't name ONE up and coming shooter in the sport. It's because he doesn't give a shit about growing the sport.

I've never heard Miculek go on a podcast and complain about prizes.. IMO he's acting like a baby and if he doesn't make enough dough to fund his hobby he needs to start selling his plasma..
 
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I like how pynch kept saying “I know I shouldn’t say this, but fuck it, oh well” then goes on with his shit talking. It’s like he knows better, but just is so entitled for whatever reason and doesn’t feel like anyone else is good enough to breathe his air much less shoot at the same match he’s at.

In the most favorable light a guy could cast on this situation, let’s still consider the guys that got the AI rifle and the NF Beast scope by RANDOM DRAW, no less. What message are these two guys getting from the number one dude in the country when public statements such as these are broadcast? Is the message that they need to be ashamed of themselves for receiving these awesome prizes? Does this message resonate throughout all the other shooters that aren’t top 5-10%? What does the NRL brass think of their champion now?

It’s really a shitty deal, I hope that this comes around and bites his ass, although since the vendor that donated those awesome prizes is understandably pissed and probably is curtailing their level of involvement, now everyone loses a little.
 
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Pynch is on top of his game and deserves to be recognized as such, but he doesn't need to be an ass about it... He's been funding his "habit" by using the prize table and now the prize table is going away. Its obviously a kick in the balls as he wants to continue to do things as he has in the past. The world turns and circumstances change. If the top guys want to find a way to fund their hobby and turn it into a true sport, they need to take the lead get involved in being part of the solution. Otherwise things will continue to degrade and everybody loses, but the guys selling off the prize table will lose the most personally.
 
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Hi,

Man this is getting uglier and uglier in terms of public image.

Now is the time for the Leagues to act like a Governing Body and put the hammer down on their shooters acting like this, because it is and WILL hurt the Leagues more than it can ever hurt any shooter themselves.

A shooter may loose their sponsorship and worse case scenario the league looses that shooter, BUT when the sponsors start pulling from their support for the Leagues...well the entire set of dominos fall.....

Sincerely,
Theis
 
Hi,

Man this is getting uglier and uglier in terms of public image.

Now is the time for the Leagues to act like a Governing Body and put the hammer down on their shooters acting like this, because it is and WILL hurt the Leagues more than it can ever hurt any shooter themselves.

A shooter may loose their sponsorship and worse case scenario the league looses that shooter, BUT when the sponsors start pulling from their support for the Leagues...well the entire set of dominos fall.....

Sincerely,
Theis

As I said somewhere earlier, lose one person's entry fee, versus lose a lot of people's entry fees.... simple economics.

And, the more lower placing shooters, will keep coming in when they know they might draw a beast or AiT... that's a draw to bring lower place shooters in and to encourage them to want to do better, as some matches will give better prizes to top placers.

Ymmv
 
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Being on top means never having to say you're sorry

If you guys followed this on Social Media (Not SH) the majority of his peers applauded his words. They even shared it with a wink and a nod. While there were some who did not agree with what was said, you'll find very little pushback among the core participants. Any disagreement was barely a whisper.

You cannot openly criticize, this has been made abundantly clear, they circle the wagons and will shoot back, calling in reinforcements if necessary. I highly doubt you will see any blowback. In fact, I suspect nothing will change, which is how they want it. The only problem as they see it is me, and the fact I haven't let this whole thing die.

In the end, with 115 Episodes of the Podcast, reviewing my stats, these episodes are not among the Top downloads. Seems we all maybe wasting our breaths, something I have known for a while. Even the private, productive conversation yielded no changes. As long as they can camouflage the losses and highlight the addition of the next new match on the schedule, people will continue to buy into the idea things are just rosy.

We are preaching to the choir when the congregation is not even in the church.
 
Being on top means never having to say you're sorry

If you guys followed this on Social Media (Not SH) the majority of his peers applauded his words. They even shared it with a wink and a nod. While there were some who did not agree with what was said, you'll find very little pushback among the core participants. Any disagreement was barely a whisper.

You cannot openly criticize, this has been made abundantly clear, they circle the wagons and will shoot back, calling in reinforcements if necessary. I highly doubt you will see any blowback. In fact, I suspect nothing will change, which is how they want it. The only problem as they see it is me, and the fact I haven't let this whole thing die.

In the end, with 115 Episodes of the Podcast, reviewing my stats, these episodes are not among the Top downloads. Seems we all maybe wasting our breaths, something I have known for a while. Even the private, productive conversation yielded no changes. As long as they can camouflage the losses and highlight the addition of the next new match on the schedule, people will continue to buy into the idea things are just rosy.

We are preaching to the choir when the congregation is not even in the church.


I hope you’re wrong, but it’s so sensible what you said there, common American theme anymore; baby and massage the ball sacks of the top of the customer base while ignoring the masses.
 
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Guys I really hate to dig this up, but I just heard about all of this today because I live under a rock apparently.

i Propose we start a Jon Pynch travel/competition fund. If you finish outside the top 10 and get an awesome prize from a company that values us newer shooters, we should really consider the plight of the Pynch and announce verbally that we’ll donate the entire thing to his cause. Because really, we should feel honored to stand in the man’s shadow.

“Mil/Leo get paid to shoot” ha, what a joke. He should probably not talk about things he knows nothing about.
 
Did MPA sever ties with Pynch over this? I see he's shooting for MDT now....
 
Did MPA sever ties with Pynch over this? I see he's shooting for MDT now....

All though plenty of people probably would like to see that as the reason, Phil is way to nice of a guy "imop"

MDT is or looking into mfg in WA, Pinch is from WA. MDT has a lot of features that MPA had.

Looks like a case of just following the money
 
I've given this thread quite a bit of thought. Some of it driven by an offline conversation where it was said "myname=Frank" as to my views on this thread, and I flippantly responded "LOL! Well, we are about the same age".

After making that comment I began to think about it though, and wonder if age/maturity really are the distinguishing differences here? This was coupled with my recent hunting trip, and the realization that as I have grown older, my desire for big bucks has completely vanished, and passing on a large buck this year was just a way of ensuring it was saved for the landowner to offer to that young hunter going for his/her first buck. Hell, I didn't even get a tremor of excitement at possibly pulling the trigger on that big bruiser; I just sat back and enjoyed watching him butt heads with a younger buck, and then go chasing does around the field. I guess I figured the memories of the view were worth more than a pair of antlers on my wall. I'm sure they'll look better on some young hunter's wall.

This natural progression as a hunter was explained to me years ago, by an older gentleman/mentor, and he stated it as:

"Every hunter goes through phases in life. At first it all about getting a buck. Then it's all about getting the biggest buck possible. Eventually though, it becomes about the sport and the companionship. In that last phase, it also becomes about ensuring that there is something there for the younger generation, so that the sport continues to be passed down to the next generation. We pass on big bucks as we age because it's no longer about us. The hunt is no longer about ego or the kill, but rather about others. It's just the normal cycle of things."

As I watch this thread, I wonder if this sport is having the same challenge. There seems to be some sage advice being given about growing the sport, based on many years of experience, that is being ignored or criticized by those that seem to still be concerned most about winning (and thereby getting prizes). The comments about "socialism" or "participation prizes" clearly miss the point, and I would argue, show a lack the wisdom needed to understand the why. They are still in that "biggest buck" phase, where ego and public perception drive them to excel. I don't say that as a pejorative, only that it is the natural phase that most folks go through, and it is where they are at.

I also hear the "Well, that's just a bunch of guys who never finish in the top 10, bitching about it because they suck." a lot. This statement tells me two things:

1. The people who say this, make it pretty clear they're all about winning; i.e. it's all about them (or their close circle of "winner" friends) and their individual or collective egos. Not about the sport (or at a minimum, it is a distant second to the priority of winning). Again, that is not necessarily a bad thing, it's just where they're at in life. I mean, let's face it, most of us here either are (or once were) alphas of some sort, and can remember the overwhelming drive to succeed, conquer and dominate...and do so publicly. I think that's why you hear Frank say "I get it!" when he talks about some of the shooter's desires and motivations. Eventually though, as you age and/or mature (they obviously are not tied together) you take a broader, longer term view. This view is hard, or even impossible, for the younger people to understand. It's like having that hard headed, strong willed child that swears "the old man doesn't know shit" and proceeds to angrily charge off and do things their own way, in spite of the parent seeing the train wreck that the decision will be, and attempting to constrain the child in the hopes to save them the pain of learning the hard way. Often pain that they themselves have experienced first hand, by being just as hard headed and making the same mistakes. But sometimes (as a parent) you have to let them earn their wisdom the hard way...with pain. This can be demonstrated by the PRS being sold how many times now? Lotta pain there I'd wager.

2. The second point on the statement, is that is shows arrogance and a lack of critical thinking. It assumes that if someone doesn't finish in the top 10, they lack the skill to achieve that and that they are also some how "lesser" than the top shooters. Honestly, I chuckle when I think about this point. As mentioned in a previous post, I'm a "middle of the pack shooter". But what many in the top finishing slots fail to understand, is that many of us consciously choose to remain middle of the pack shooters, not because of a lack of skills, but because many of us forego additional training that would put us in the top 10...because we really don't give a shit about winning. It's nice if it happens (when you're just in the bubble and everything is clicking), but that isn't our drive to shoot or RO these matches. I have no doubt in my mind that if I wanted to finish top 10, I could. No doubt at all. None. But prizes and ego are not what motivate me (and many others). What motivates many of us (many more than the top 10 finishers) is seeing the sport grow, seeing the excitement of success of a new shooter, seeing the confidence grow in shooters as they push themselves past what they thought they were capable of. Many of us were once those young shooters, who were fortunate enough to have mentors that took the time and effort to show us the ropes. To put us in a position to be a top 10 finisher. Because we spend more time RO'ing, or working with other shooters, or focusing on debugging someone's challenges, it often comes at a cost of being competitive. A cost many of us are more than willing to pay. But again, that is a difference of priorities and perspective. To say that those who disagree, do so because they are not Top 10 finshers is egocentric horseshit and shows an arrogance and ego that is mind boggling, as well as shows a depth of character that is about as shallow as piss on concrete.

I'm not sure what the answer is to all this, but I think there is a divide. A divide that is not based on "Top 10 finishers" versus everyone else, but rather a divide between the takers and the givers. The bigger picture folks and those consumed with the myoptic view of winning as the highest priority. If this sport is to survive and flourish, I think some wise decisions will need to be made, and they will likely not favor the "top 10 finisher" crowd.

Anyways...the ramblings from an older guy that has been an alpha minded competitor, and now just wants to shoot for the joy of shooting ; and maybe see some wisdom develop in the next generation of competitors.

Something to think about anyways...

This is the single best post I've ever read on the hide. It completely captures the values misalignment that underpins the kinds of problems many sports/communities endure. Bravo.
 
in golf they have a pro- am and a handicap to make it a level playing field. If there's a will there's a way but it sounds like there's no will.