- Thread starter Tyler455
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Does it shoot shitty? And by that I mean like 1-1.5 MOA at best
If it doesn't have Bartlein/Tooley stamped on the end it's a green mountain.
Are you personally getting 1.5 MOA groups from your GM barreled Fix?
Yeah I have a 16” .308 that I’m 99% sure is a green mountain. It shoots the three different factory hunting rounds I’ve tried around 1.5 moa. Shoots factory 168g Gold Medal right at 1 moa. And factory Desert Tech 175g at .75 moa. I did have some 155g Berger’s loaded up for a different rifle that it’ll shoot .8 moa. It’s not a tack driver by any means but it’s also a very hard rifle to shoot. After I got the barrel broke in I laid down behind it one day and put 60 rounds through it and the next day my shoulder was bruised and purple. Pushing 155g bullets 2700-2800fps out of a 7lb gun isn’t pleasant but I’d rather pack it around all day hunting than anything else I own.
That’s with a brake?
Suppressor. Is that the same thing?
yes. under 1 moa with handloads
FYI. I tried an asc 5 round mag for hunting due to state law and had a hard time chambering rounds, went back to magpul and they seem to be working better
That’s not encouraging (I unfortunately got a green mountain barrel also).
Just waiting on my scope so I can try the following factory loads I’ve got here ready to go.
178gr eld-x hornady precision hunter
168gr bthp federal gold medal match
168gr bthp ppu rifle line
155gr a-max hornady black
155gr hornady tap fpd
147gr perfecta fmj
Did you try any of those other than the gold medal match?
Just about. That’s crazy
Accuracy wise, there's inherently nothing wrong with Green Mountain barrels IME. They generally shoot very well.
53 weeks? You ain't seen nothing. I waited almost 3 years for a rifle back in 2012 (not Q)
No the three hunting rounds I tried were
165g Hornady Full Boar GMX
150g Hornady Superformance GMX
150g Federal premium nosler ballistic tip
Podcast today had some interesting info on barrels around 38min
Some highlights. Approx 50% reject/repair rate on barletin tooly barrel. All 308 had to go on q lathe for repair. Price was very high and high of cost of quality. Ability to make 500 barrels a month at high level is hard. (Earlier was mentioned order velocity took off after first few hundred got in market)
308 have more issues then 6.5 with initial accuracy. They shoot 5 round groups sub Moa with all guns outdoors with factory ammo. Creed are usually half moa 308closer to moa. Think the issue is shorter barrel and recoil impact
Currently source barrels from 3 companies.
Some highlights. Approx 50% reject/repair rate on barletin tooly barrel. All 308 had to go on q lathe for repair. Price was very high and high of cost of quality. Ability to make 500 barrels a month at high level is hard. (Earlier was mentioned order velocity took off after first few hundred got in market)
308 have more issues then 6.5 with initial accuracy. They shoot 5 round groups sub Moa with all guns outdoors with factory ammo. Creed are usually half moa 308closer to moa. Think the issue is shorter barrel and recoil impact
Currently source barrels from 3 companies.
Mini is shipping next month hopefully. Not sure of how long backlog looks
Well I'm feeling pretty lucky at the moment. I wandered into Cabela's just before Thanksgiving and saw The Fix for the first time...didn't know it existed before that. I went home and read this entire thread before going back to look at it again a week later. I'm surprised it was still there - 6.5 with a Bartlein barrel. Anyway, I've never been into LR shooting, but I brought it home after talking them into giving me 150 off.
The biggest scope I had was a NF 2.5x10 so I put that on it and shot three different 140 match loads sub moa. Winchester Match 140 .8 moa with 4 rounds touching strung horizontally and one flier. Hornady 140 .9 moa with 4 rounds touching strung vertically and one flier. Sig 140 .95 moa with shotgun sort of group.
Not what I dreamed of shooting as far as groups, but the barrel only has 17 rounds through it and now I'm hooked on getting into precision rifle. I know this isn't the best gun for that, but man did I fall in love with it. Asked some friends about the purchase and then ignored their advice! Haha.
I've got a Kahles K318i coming in the mail tomorrow along with some match ammo in different weights. Can't wait to see what I can get it to do on the 100 yard line before tagging along with a couple friends that shoot PRS.
Thanks to everyone on this thread for all the great info.
The biggest scope I had was a NF 2.5x10 so I put that on it and shot three different 140 match loads sub moa. Winchester Match 140 .8 moa with 4 rounds touching strung horizontally and one flier. Hornady 140 .9 moa with 4 rounds touching strung vertically and one flier. Sig 140 .95 moa with shotgun sort of group.
Not what I dreamed of shooting as far as groups, but the barrel only has 17 rounds through it and now I'm hooked on getting into precision rifle. I know this isn't the best gun for that, but man did I fall in love with it. Asked some friends about the purchase and then ignored their advice! Haha.
I've got a Kahles K318i coming in the mail tomorrow along with some match ammo in different weights. Can't wait to see what I can get it to do on the 100 yard line before tagging along with a couple friends that shoot PRS.
Thanks to everyone on this thread for all the great info.
Khales will be a great scope. I use a mark 5 and am happy with it.
In terms of grouping, focus a lot on technique. One thing to remember is some of the groups you hear about are ideal circumstances.
I care more about being able to do a 5 shot drill in 60 seconds than the size of my best group.
In terms of grouping, focus a lot on technique. One thing to remember is some of the groups you hear about are ideal circumstances.
I care more about being able to do a 5 shot drill in 60 seconds than the size of my best group.
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I believe there is a lawsuit that will settle this but everyone (except Kevin obviously) are under Non Disclosure Agreements and can’t say anything until the lawsuits are done.
I know for certain that what is said in that post is not true, it will all come out in the end!! A few barrels out of hundreds is not 58% and Q was compensated for said barrels!!
Maybe Kevin is watching his Ex Wife through his scope to much..
I would bet there are two sides to the storey ... don’t know where the truth is
But I was surprised when I heard bartlein and tooly were doing the barrel. I view them more as a custom/semi custom company and less of a mass production company.
But I was surprised when I heard bartlein and tooly were doing the barrel. I view them more as a custom/semi custom company and less of a mass production company.
Thanks mate. I won’t bother with those loads then.
I think I ordered it two days into the preorder. One year and one week to the day. I'm glad I did because I don't have the accuracy issues with my 308 thaat others are having, unless I shoot factory Lapua ammo, looks like buckshot.
I thought 5 months was a long time.
What hunting loads work best for you?
I ordered mine in May.... Still waiting.
All the local shops are oit of good 308 hunting ammo for the time being so i havent had a chance to try any factory loads but I'm workingon a 208gr hunting load now and it looks very promising.
My my my it's grown from 10% to over 50%.
It's time to set the record straight. This may cost me a lot of money. Before it's over I may get banned from the Hide. So be it.
FOR THE RECORD IN RESPONSE TO WHAT HAS BEEN POSTED HERE.
A total of 9 barrels out of 592 were in questron. One barrel I totally screwed up. I put painters tape on the barrel saying "bad chamber". One I ran the roughing reamer in to deep and I didn't catch it. They did. The other I don't remember what was wrong but I couldn't save it. 6 had cosmetic issues. Of those 9 I corrected the 6 cosmetic issues and Q accepted them. In regards to the other three, Q received a prompt and timely refund. Notice I used the word prompt and timely.
I have done 592 barrels for Q. So 3 problem barrels equals 1/2 of 1%. It shouldn't have been that high but hey , I'm human.
I have finished barrels on the shop floor that were in limbo for a period of time because of litigation involving Bartlein and Q. That has been settled in Bartlein's favor. I received instructions in August to complete work on those barrels.
Because of past performance Q's shipping status is on hold.
I think you get the picture.
I believe Frank G is going to offer a response for Bartlein.
My last words on the subject of Q.
Caveat Emptor
Edit Myself and Bartlein have offered measured responses in the past. There are good people working at Q. We have no ill will towards them and wish them the best.
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Please do not take my post as a slight at you. I was merely posting what was said in the podcast. I would encourage everyone to listen to it and read your response and draw their own conclusions.
I am happy with my bartlein barrel chambered by you on my fix and would buy from you again
I was thinking when they get 8.6 twist rate figured out I will probably have Dave make me one with the same profile as the 308 barrel, I think that would be a great little rifle for the thick stuff around me.
Ouch dude, hang in there!
Figured as much. The people at Q that do the talking talk a lot of shit. Bummed I didn't get one of your barrels.
Same thing with mine, it was one of the first preorders the first Hour of them being for sale. Still took a year probably becuse I don’t call or pester people. I finally broke down and called after I knew Jessica Left.
No offense taken. This isn't about you. It's about one man and his lack of moral character.
Cleric, I'm not poking at ya all here. Just quoted your post to cover a little of it.
The numbers are off. Everything for reject/repair rate to the ability to produce 500 a month etc...we can easily do 500 a month. Also the schedule was never that high to begin with. At least not on the orders/schedule given to us. Try half of that. Also they put things on hold at times for different reasons. When your asked to hold up production and after x amount of time goes by then you get a phone call and get the green light to start making stuff again we cannot always flip the switch on and off that fast. Other things come into play. Also when we we're asked for something as fast as possible we did whatever we could to help out and get something out.
As Dave pointed out we have no ill will feelings towards Q and it's workers. Also to anyone that has a Bartlein/Tooley barrel on the gun if you ever have any questions and we can help in anyway pick up the phone and call. The support didn't stop just because the relationship between Q and Bartlein is over.
No point in beating this to death. It's over and done.
I almost thought of trying to find this podcast and listen to it but it would just end up wasting my time and nothing good would come out of it.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Some other musings from the podcast I wrote down...
Mega fix will be a shorter barrel. Something like 16-20in proof. Designed to be a 800meter gun. Based around ai mag
20moa top rail and direct scope mount eventually. Said they were overwhelmed by gun order velocity and focusing on that.
Different color plastics only available if you schedule a customer build. Hard to change plastic next to folding stock mechanism
338 silencer for new round
338 fixed for sure maybe Gas gun. Maybe purchasing someone that makes 308 ar. One issue is no standard 308 ar (thinking things like curved upper for angled upper).
Mega badger was no 2 months ago. Now maybe
338 blackout
2019 components available
2020 shot launch with factory ammo
Designed around 12.5 in barrel. 300 yard super sonic effective on medium game
Super sonic is 135-180 grain. Threw out 2500 FPS not sure what weight
Sub sonic is 250-360 grain.
1:3 already tested
1:1 in testing now. Lots of rotational force and have ripped some bullets apart but needed for sub sonic bullets
Mega fix will be a shorter barrel. Something like 16-20in proof. Designed to be a 800meter gun. Based around ai mag
20moa top rail and direct scope mount eventually. Said they were overwhelmed by gun order velocity and focusing on that.
Different color plastics only available if you schedule a customer build. Hard to change plastic next to folding stock mechanism
338 silencer for new round
338 fixed for sure maybe Gas gun. Maybe purchasing someone that makes 308 ar. One issue is no standard 308 ar (thinking things like curved upper for angled upper).
Mega badger was no 2 months ago. Now maybe
338 blackout
2019 components available
2020 shot launch with factory ammo
Designed around 12.5 in barrel. 300 yard super sonic effective on medium game
Super sonic is 135-180 grain. Threw out 2500 FPS not sure what weight
Sub sonic is 250-360 grain.
1:3 already tested
1:1 in testing now. Lots of rotational force and have ripped some bullets apart but needed for sub sonic bullets
It's a fucking shame that you have had your name drug through the mud over 3 barrels screwed up. As you said, we all make mistakes and it is how they are handled that matters. I can honestly say that I've seen enough shit in a few threads and posts on other topics of his that I have no desire to own one of his products regardless of how great they are supposed to be.
Frank and Dave... all good 
I wouldn’t hesitate to buy from y’all.
I think the fix is a fantastic designed gun. I think that if you know about guns and design you will appreciate it. I think there is a reason you see other companies copying it.
I also understand why some people are turned off by Q. They are a bit brash in their actions.
The barrel is the most important component to me. I care about who makes it and who chambers it on a 3k gun.
I wouldn’t hesitate to buy from y’all.
I think the fix is a fantastic designed gun. I think that if you know about guns and design you will appreciate it. I think there is a reason you see other companies copying it.
I also understand why some people are turned off by Q. They are a bit brash in their actions.
The barrel is the most important component to me. I care about who makes it and who chambers it on a 3k gun.
I've been intermittently in and out of this the industry side of this market for about 15yrs now. It never ceases to amaze me how cut throat some folks within it can be. Smh...reflects badly on everyone, unfortunately.
Not surprisingly, many in the industry also know who the good guys are, and those good guys tend to flourish, in spite of some of the mud slinging that happens.
There's a lot of credit (IMHO) due to those that take the moral high road; it's what keeps this industry moving forward.
Not surprisingly, many in the industry also know who the good guys are, and those good guys tend to flourish, in spite of some of the mud slinging that happens.
There's a lot of credit (IMHO) due to those that take the moral high road; it's what keeps this industry moving forward.
This thread is titled wrong, it's The GIMMICK Rifle from Q!?
Guys, stick to competent gunsmiths most of whom offer half MOA guarantees and most importantly offer integrityand quality customer service.
EDIT: I'll edit the original post since i haven't personally used the service at Q, because after reading the 36 pages in this thread who would!?
Guys, stick to competent gunsmiths most of whom offer half MOA guarantees and most importantly offer integrity
EDIT: I'll edit the original post since i haven't personally used the service at Q, because after reading the 36 pages in this thread who would!?
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I or I should we appreciate that. Tracy,Frank, all the guys at Bartlein and I have a very special relationship not often found in the business world. We approach things as a partnership. Bartlein, TCR and our customer.
Frank and Dave... all good
I wouldn’t hesitate to buy from y’all.
I think the fix is a fantastic designed gun. I think that if you know about guns and design you will appreciate it. I think there is a reason you see other companies copying it.
I also understand why some people are turned off by Q. They are a bit brash in their actions.
The barrel is the most important component to me. I care about who makes it and who chambers it on a 3k gun.
Between what I've seen posted and the fact that they went to a cheaper barrel blank yet charge the same as they did for a premium Bartlein blank, I don't think it's brash at all.
There's not a custom rifle made that offers what this rifle does. Sorry but that's the truth. Like the company/guy or not, the rifle really is an engineering masterpiece. They got the fix right down to every last little detail.
As to quality customer service, how many gunsmiths have gone under over the years and stolen peoples parts and deposits? How many gunsmiths quote a lead time and then don't deliver anywhere close to that?
I'm one product in with this company but so far they've given me no real problems and were helpful when I contacted them about barrel extensions and such. I've been in this game for a while and have had numerous custom rifles built or work performed by just about any major gunsmith you could think of and the list of ones who I didn't have trouble with is pretty damn short.
Just saying. As someone who got a barrel from a certain previous manufacture that was using the same smith as a more current manufacturer, and that chamber was so crooked you could see it with the naked eye, and that manufacture nor gunsmith would stand behind it and I ate a $800+ barrel plus the brass it trashed while they were all insisting that there was nothing wrong with it... I have a little more sympathy to the other side than most I think.
Do you own one? It really is hard to appreciate it until you have one and can feel it.
I haven’t had any issues with customer service. In fact they have gone above and beyond for me imo. I would recommend it to others. I would just buy from a stocking dealer or plan on doing customer build (not sure if their is a criteria)
I've corrected my post, you're right i shouldn't base my comment on hear say, I also shouldnt trust the 36 pages in this thread...
I've had no issues with their customer service either. I was one of the first ones to get one and started getting a "sticky" bolt. I put a ticket in thru Q's portal and was given a shipping label the same day. I shipped my rifle off, they worked on it, and shipped it back to me in less then 10 days. Since then I've had no issues and continue to use the gun for hunting because it is so damn handy.
I don't know what else you could ask for. In regards to the Bartlien/Tooley barrels, I find it hard to believe they have a 50% failure rate. Those two companies have built a reputation of being the best year over year. I honestly think Kevin just talk's out of his ass sometimes.
I would reccomend you give the podcast a listen
When he said failure he was also saying contour failures. That all 308 had contour issues they had to fix. Which would be different from chambering
When he said failure he was also saying contour failures. That all 308 had contour issues they had to fix. Which would be different from chambering
Buttpad itself just needs to be pulled/pushed out of the holder, mine did tear at the molded keepers but I wasn't going back. To remove the pad holder assembly you just adjust the pad full up and remove the screw and full down, and remove the screw.
Kevin B even calls himself an asshole - I'm not sure anyone here should be too surprised by his actions, haha.
To be honest, my interactions with the company haven't been overwhelmingly positive, but they have definitely taken care of things when I had an issue.
Thankfully, the rifle stands on it's own. If you're considering this product - make sure you can distance your opinion of the company owner from the gun - I was bothered by this a bit, but I'm over it - it's a great gun.
I just wish they would actually release more of their planned accessories for it. Larger bolt knob, buttpad options, bipod, etc. Maybe it's a cashflow thing though - I am sure there are bigger margins in their $3000 bolt guns and $2000 honey badger ARs.
I wish the rift between Bartlein/Tooley and Q hadn't happened, but oh well, it is over and done, and now some of us have rarer early-run unicorns I guess, haha.
To be honest, my interactions with the company haven't been overwhelmingly positive, but they have definitely taken care of things when I had an issue.
Thankfully, the rifle stands on it's own. If you're considering this product - make sure you can distance your opinion of the company owner from the gun - I was bothered by this a bit, but I'm over it - it's a great gun.
I just wish they would actually release more of their planned accessories for it. Larger bolt knob, buttpad options, bipod, etc. Maybe it's a cashflow thing though - I am sure there are bigger margins in their $3000 bolt guns and $2000 honey badger ARs.
I wish the rift between Bartlein/Tooley and Q hadn't happened, but oh well, it is over and done, and now some of us have rarer early-run unicorns I guess, haha.
There's more to it then what you are hearing.
Bottom line is we stand by our work!
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