The Next Trayvon Martin Case?

Longshot231

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What is it about the winter coat and nothing underneath while others are in T shirts? Is that a hood style or was the guy just odd?
If he thought it would conceal his identity it wasn't a good idea.

Officer: Can you tell us what the suspect looked like?

Witness: He's the only tall black guy running around here with a winter coat on with a fur lined hood.
 
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BytorJr

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Why is it in multiple videos this guy is wearing a full up COAT with no shirt underneath in what appears to be shirt sleeve weather? PeeU.

Granted, none of the previous arrests may be used as evidence for this particular case (my "honorary" law degree at work...lol); but he definitely is not as clean as the press makes him out to be...like another case I can recall in a similar area of the country.
 

Don-n-Texas

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William Roddie Bryan, the man who recorded the deadly February shooting of Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia, has been arrested on charges including felony murder, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation announced Thursday night.

That black women prosecutor said she wanted a death penalty.
 
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Dthomas3523

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William Roddie Bryan, the man who recorded the deadly February shooting of Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia, has been arrested on charges including felony murder, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation announced Thursday night.

That black women prosecutor said she wanted a death penalty.
Looks like they are also pursuing false imprisonment charges.

That would imply the state’s position is there was either no felony or no probable cause for a felony at the time they saw him leave the property. Making their attempted detention/arrest illegal and false imprisonment.
 
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Ravenworks

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Looks like they are also pursuing false imprisonment charges.

That would imply the state’s position is there was either no felony or no probable cause for a felony at the time they saw him leave the property. Making their attempted detention/arrest illegal and false imprisonment.
That black women prosecutor said she wanted a death penalty.

There's a lot of wheels turning now
 

Dthomas3523

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That black women prosecutor said she wanted a death penalty.

There's a lot of wheels turning now
Source? And is there a reason people are pointing out she’s black?

Kinda hard for people to get irritated about the media exploiting race and then bringing it up. Makes it look like the media is just giving people what they want vs exploiting it.
 

Dunraven

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ok you wife/sister is being detained against her will by two random armed men. She fights for her life and they shoot her. Irrelevant? She had it coming to her? It was to be expected? What if last week she stole a lipstick from a local store justified?
there could be hundreds of irrelevant hypotheticals to Not answer
 
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Dunraven

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I'm curious about the folks that are saying that Mr. Arbery had every right to charge/fight/attack Mr. McMichael and take his shotgun away.

Have any of those folks arguing on behalf of Mr. Arbery ever had a gun pointed at them when they are UNARMED?

I can speak from first hand experience. Trying to get the gun out of someone's hands can be extremely foolish. Sure we see some martial arts experts take a "dummy" gun from someone on the judo mat or the occasional store clerk grabbing a pistol out of a robber's hands when they put it to their head.

There are rare examples of an unarmed victim taking a gun away from an armed person.

I was closer to the person aiming the 1911 at my head. I was in much better shape and exponentially faster than the person with the pistol but there is no way I could have disarmed him before he could pull the trigger.

Again, I am saying all this because, Mr. Arbery was at least 20-30 yards away when he spotted the shotgun. Regardless of the reason he decided to go after Mr. McMichael instead of running in the other direction was the last foolish thing he had ever done in his life.

Mr. Arbery had the advantage of distance between him and the shotgun but chose not to take it.

Go through a situation when someone has a gun pointed at you and afterwards tell me why you didn't try to take it away from him or her. It's a lot different than watching a video from the comfort of your chair than to actually experience it.

Give me just one second while I slip into some comfortable nomex.
And all of this would make perfect sense if the dead guy wasn't ..black. some are more equal than others now.
 

Dthomas3523

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I'm curious about the folks that are saying that Mr. Arbery had every right to charge/fight/attack Mr. McMichael and take his shotgun away.

Have any of those folks arguing on behalf of Mr. Arbery ever had a gun pointed at them when they are UNARMED?

I can speak from first hand experience. Trying to get the gun out of someone's hands can be extremely foolish. Sure we see some martial arts experts take a "dummy" gun from someone on the judo mat or the occasional store clerk grabbing a pistol out of a robber's hands when they put it to their head.

There are rare examples of an unarmed victim taking a gun away from an armed person.

I was closer to the person aiming the 1911 at my head. I was in much better shape and exponentially faster than the person with the pistol but there is no way I could have disarmed him before he could pull the trigger.

Again, I am saying all this because, Mr. Arbery was at least 20-30 yards away when he spotted the shotgun. Regardless of the reason he decided to go after Mr. McMichael instead of running in the other direction was the last foolish thing he had ever done in his life.

Mr. Arbery had the advantage of distance between him and the shotgun but chose not to take it.

Go through a situation when someone has a gun pointed at you and afterwards tell me why you didn't try to take it away from him or her. It's a lot different than watching a video from the comfort of your chair than to actually experience it.

Give me just one second while I slip into some comfortable nomex.
As of right now, the story is heading in the direction of the moment captured on video was the 2nd or 3rd time they attempted to subdue him. The reason the person taking the video was arrested was because he told police he tried to cut him off with his vehicle as well.

You can only run away so much until you decide to give up or fight.

Not to mention nothing in your post has anything to do with the legality of it. Was us a smart move to try to take the shotgun? Possibly not. Was it legal? Well, that depends on the outcome of the case.

Same situation with the two accused, was it smart to go chasing after him? Possibly not. Was it legal? That remains to be seen as well.

Was it smart for Zimmerman to follow on foot. Probably not. Was it legal? Yes it was.

There’s a *huge* difference between what’s smart and what’s legal/a right. Open carry is legal in places, but it’s typically not a good idea to show the criminal who to shoot first. The list goes on and on.

This isn’t a case about what was or wasn’t a good idea.
 

Longshot231

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As of right now, the story is heading in the direction of the moment captured on video was the 2nd or 3rd time they attempted to subdue him. The reason the person taking the video was arrested was because he told police he tried to cut him off with his vehicle as well.

You can only run away so much until you decide to give up or fight.

Not to mention nothing in your post has anything to do with the legality of it. Was us a smart move to try to take the shotgun? Possibly not. Was it legal? Well, that depends on the outcome of the case.

Same situation with the two accused, was it smart to go chasing after him? Possibly not. Was it legal? That remains to be seen as well.

Was it smart for Zimmerman to follow on foot. Probably not. Was it legal? Yes it was.

There’s a *huge* difference between what’s smart and what’s legal/a right. Open carry is legal in places, but it’s typically not a good idea to show the criminal who to shoot first. The list goes on and on.

This isn’t a case about what was or wasn’t a good idea.
It sounds like we're saying the same thing but in a different way.

Otherwise, my main point is that the media is portraying Mr. Arbery as a nice-guy-innocent-as-the-driven-snow-clean-cut-all-american-jogger. He was not. The picture that I get of him was that he was a thief and a hot-head.

He may have been within his legal rights to defend himself or maybe not. Even if his last actions were legal, it was extremely stupid. His mindset was revealed in the police body-cam videos of 2017. What I saw of him in that video was someone who was going to run his mouth, act intimidating and try to bully a cop to keep him from doing his job.

That's precisely the attitude that got him killed.
 
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mattharper

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So I'm not gonna wade into the discussion much further than this, but here's something to chew on... and my tin foil hat has been set aside...

My GUESS is that the MSM has the entire video, but it doesn't stoke the fire, so they're chopping off the part that makes it decisive.

If you've noticed, one day they'll show a body cam video of the deceased in different positions of possible wrongdoing, and the next will be of the opposing side's situation. Next will be discrediting the LE agency (whether valid or invalid, it's not really relevant to my point and I don't have an opinion there).

All of this keeps everyone on every side interested in the story.

Then you look at the public document sent from the DA to the LE agency and have to see they were stonewalled when they obviously wanted to charge the accused.

Any DA in a Ga. County can breathe life into or kill any warrant within a short conversation in the courtroom. They most likely knew better than to present it if their chief prosecutor isn't on board. I dont know about other states, but this is for shit sure in Georgia.

After the media outrage began, they assigned the GBI and a "special" prosecutor, and regardless of who she is or what she looks like, my bet is she didn't want to touch this thing with a 10 foot pole regardless of the evidence. But she was probably forced. For an elected official, screw this up on her end and its career suicide. Especially in a county that's as divided as Cobb.

If this turns out like I suspect, she made the smart play for her career and her career alone. Charge everyone involved with everything but the kitchen sink and let the jury be the bad guys in the end if it comes to that. Either way, the onus is off of the GBI and her as far as public opinionis concerned.

Whether he was a saint or a career criminal isn't really relevant when it comes to the short time surrounding the end of his life. That's obviously the media trying to capture an audience. This trial won't be able to have anything to do with his history outside of character assasination. The video that we've all seen doesn't look good, but they rarely ever do until it's been seen in it's entirety and any other evidence is considered.

I look forward to seeing all the evidence and I'll not make any judgement until that time.
 

Longshot231

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So I'm not gonna wade into the discussion much further than this, but here's something to chew on... and my tin foil hat has been set aside...

My GUESS is that the MSM has the entire video, but it doesn't stoke the fire, so they're chopping off the part that makes it decisive.

If you've noticed, one day they'll show a body cam video of the deceased in different positions of possible wrongdoing, and the next will be of the opposing side's situation. Next will be discrediting the LE agency (whether valid or invalid, it's not really relevant to my point and I don't have an opinion there).

All of this keeps everyone on every side interested in the story.

Then you look at the public document sent from the DA to the LE agency and have to see they were stonewalled when they obviously wanted to charge the accused.

Any DA in a Ga. County can breathe life into or kill any warrant within a short conversation in the courtroom. They most likely knew better than to present it if their chief prosecutor isn't on board. I dont know about other states, but this is for shit sure in Georgia.

After the media outrage began, they assigned the GBI and a "special" prosecutor, and regardless of who she is or what she looks like, my bet is she didn't want to touch this thing with a 10 foot pole regardless of the evidence. But she was probably forced. For an elected official, screw this up on her end and its career suicide. Especially in a county that's as divided as Cobb.

If this turns out like I suspect, she made the smart play for her career and her career alone. Charge everyone involved with everything but the kitchen sink and let the jury be the bad guys in the end if it comes to that. Either way, the onus is off of the GBI and her as far as public opinionis concerned.

Whether he was a saint or a career criminal isn't really relevant when it comes to the short time surrounding the end of his life. That's obviously the media trying to capture an audience. This trial won't be able to have anything to do with his history outside of character assasination. The video that we've all seen doesn't look good, but they rarely ever do until it's been seen in it's entirety and any other evidence is considered.

I look forward to seeing all the evidence and I'll not make any judgement until that time.
That’s a good assessment. Remember that it doesn’t take much to indict Even a ham sandwich.

They also have to get past a grand jury before a full trial.

Violence sells newspapers and gets news networks advertising dollars. If there was complete racial harmony in this country that would hurt the ability of the MSM to make money.

Headlines that say “Whites and Blacks Live in Harmony,” don’t sell like “Atlanta Has Not Burned Like This in 156 Years.”
 

mattharper

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That’s a good assessment. Remember that it doesn’t take much to indict Even a ham sandwich.

They also have to get past a grand jury before a full trial.

Violence sells newspapers and gets news networks advertising dollars. If there was complete racial harmony in this country that would hurt the ability of the MSM to make money.

Headlines that say “Whites and Blacks Live in Harmony,” don’t sell like “Atlanta Has Not Burned Like This in 156 Years.”

18 years running, I've never had a case no billed by a grand jury. 9 times out of 10, they don't even ask questions. I'm a detailed guy, but I won't even put that credit toward myself. The only questions I've ever answered when presenting a case was either for a brand new grand jury or someone that had an overt bias in one direction or another. I've never understood why they don't ask more questions.

In a situation like this, everyone's motivation is so blatantly obvious, its sickening to me. It can't just be about the facts and it's an abomination of the justice system that I desperately want to have faith in.

The document that the DA produced has some compelling points, but given his relationship to the accused, I honestly dont know how to take it. That's why I'm trying to wait to see the evidence in its entirety before I form an opinion. I just see a slant from every possible angle.

It's gonna be almost impossible to make a case for 1st degree homicide, beyond reasonable doubt, from what I've seen. The premeditation just isnt there because they couldn't have known he was gonna come back, if it was actually him that was there before. But that's the charge the angry masses wanted to see and nothing else will suffice.

And the bigger travesty is that even though the legal system likely caved to public opinion and brought that charge, if the jury doesn't return a guilty verdict, it'll most likely be like the summer of 65 all over again.

It's not actual justice they want. It's their perverted version of justice. And by they, all I mean is those with an agenda that they profit from. Which, much like a child, means they'll pitch a fit if things don't go their way.

Right, wrong or indifferent, this is a tragedy. Whether saint of sinner, a young man lost his life and the other parties (right or wrong) have to live with the taking of a life, as well as the upside down turn their lives and the lives of their families are taking, regardless of the outcome. By this, I mean look at the lives of Darren Wilson and family. He was legally exonerated, but they'll live in hiding for the rest of their lives. Where's the justice in that?

I'll give it this though: anyone that's been through an academy in Ga has had the case law of Tennessee vs. Garner drilled into their heads from the first week and again and again throughout their career. It's hard for me to imagine that even with some of the mouth breathers I've seen come down the line over the years, that they'd present a weapon without some kind of circumstance that at least half-ass justified it. There's always an exception to the rule, but it's just difficult to ration it.

I've grown up, lived my life and spent more of this life than not, in law enforcement at this point, in the South. And I'm the third generation in my family to do it. I've seen some real racism in my life, career included. It exists, no doubt. Not as much as some would like to believe, but it's still alive. But the people that claim racism before having factual information, or the ones that use it as leverage, just cheapen the meaning of the term to the point that it has no value any more. That's the biggest tragedy. Anymore, an actual victim of it just gets passed off as the boy who cries wolf. The whole thing is just fucking awful.