Thoughts on Government's capacity and methods to punish disobedience, despite Constitutional freedoms.....

hunter1959

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this should be at the back of everyone's mind... with the threat of Gun Taxation voiced by Heil Biden yesterday, what are the choices he has to force compliance to a non-constitutional initiative, given the Senate going blue...

The power to levy punitive measures is not limited by anything with which the Left would care to comply... I will list some that I believe would be front and center in their thinking... add or subtract any as you see fit...

Additional taxation on property ... land, home, vehicles
seizing and condemning of private property, including land, homes, vehicles
Taxation on achieved education..
selective increase on income tax rate
additional Social Security Tax deductions
confiscation of personal bank accounts, and stock/bond investments
forcing employers to terminate employment
rescinding of driving licenses
reductions if not confiscation of Social Security Benefits
cancellations of credit and credit cards
matching of car ownership and licensing with denial of access to charged turnpike and bridge crossings
reductions if not elimination of MediCare or Medicaid benefits
added penalties for traffic violations
reduction or denial of bail
forced incarceration for minor offenses
visitation of denial and punishment on loved ones to gain compliance
general rounding up and imprisonment of deemed dissidents
etc.
etc.
etc.

Power, without check, has unlimited capabilities... those of us who choose to resist Tyranny need to be aware and accept the potential consequences... without doubt, granted freedoms are the energy that would drive resistance... prepare for the worst, hope for the best...

Please add those you feel are potential, or likely...
 
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pmclaine

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    You will submit to it voluntarily.

    Covid will be the wedge.

    Want to do anything in the economy? You will need to be Covid compliant.

    The only way to stop it is to tell the few people forcing it to fuck off.

    But all the mask compliance/fear doesn't make that likely.
     

    acudaowner

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    that so pressious of them hope they choke on the inflated middle finger I am willing to give em towards there tax .
     
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    candyx

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    Hey the republic nearly lasted 245 years thats one heck of a run and all things must eventually end. We were given the duty to be vigilant in protecting our Republic the task was simple since they wrote down the rules for everyone to follow . The People overtime became lackadaisical which allowed corruption to leak in and take a foot hold. Its nobodies fault except our own that we face these problems today as they slowly squeeze restrictions on our liberties.

    Democracies are not a good form of government for they are highly corruptible. Plato argues, then politics needs expert rulers, and they cannot come to it merely by accident, but must be carefully selected and prepared in the course of extensive training. Making political decisions requires good judgment.

    We elect any asshat who can gather popularity over another asshat and then we complain about how they rule us. The lack of education in our present society is astounding that we haven't learned a thing from thousands of years of history how to run a government correctly.

    One would be naive to think America could last forever and that it form of democracy as set forth under its Constitution would never change or become obsolete.
     

    hunter1959

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    Hey the republic nearly lasted 245 years thats one heck of a run and all things must eventually end. We were given the duty to be vigilant in protecting our Republic the task was simple since they wrote down the rules for everyone to follow . The People overtime became lackadaisical which allowed corruption to leak in and take a foot hold. Its nobodies fault except our own that we face these problems today as they slowly squeeze restrictions on our liberties.

    Democracies are not a good form of government for they are highly corruptible. Plato argues, then politics needs expert rulers, and they cannot come to it merely by accident, but must be carefully selected and prepared in the course of extensive training. Making political decisions requires good judgment.

    We elect any asshat who can gather popularity over another asshat and then we complain about how they rule us. The lack of education in our present society is astounding that we haven't learned a thing from thousands of years of history how to run a government correctly.

    One would be naive to think America could last forever and that it form of democracy as set forth under its Constitution would never change or become obsolete.

    then comes personal choice... as 308 states, what is "your" hardline? have you enjoyed the quality of your life and would feel the need to provide for same for your family? there are ways to alter what might seem as the inevitable, but it can't be done individually... like minds and like spirit are required... personally, I don't believe we are at the end, but I do often find myself quoting Jefferson with regard to the investment in freedom... it is no accident that our country is under attack like this... as Reagan said, we are the shinning city on the hill.... no one should be willing to see it stolen
     

    Vodoun daVinci

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    Unfortunately the Republic seems to be failing....we are living in a Failed State. All we can do now is control the crash in the things we can control locally.

    Feed, clothe, educate, and Medicare yer family. Work with yer neighbors and solve real problems in yer own vicinity. God help anyone dependant on The System or The Government. Our Government means to fleece US to fill their pockets and gather total power to liquidate US financially and eventually literally.

    VooDoo
     

    hunter1959

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    Unfortunately the Republic seems to be failing....we are living in a Failed State. All we can do now is control the crash in the things we can control locally.

    Feed, clothe, educate, and Medicare yer family. Work with yer neighbors and solve real problems in yer own vicinity. God help anyone dependant on The System or The Government. Our Government means to fleece US to fill their pockets and gather total power to liquidate US financially and eventually literally.

    VooDoo

    I disagree... we are a failing state, not a failed state... as long as there is breath to resist, it is not gone... we are in an ultra high stakes poker game, more cards are to be shown as the game further unfolds... 474,000,000 firearms say there is a great deal of "ante" left for the pot..
     

    Blue Sky Country

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  • I disagree... we are a failing state, not a failed state... as long as there is breath to resist, it is not gone... we are in an ultra high stakes poker game, more cards are to be shown as the game further unfolds... 474,000,000 firearms say there is a great deal of "ante" left for the pot..

    The Republic is not failing. It is clogged with filth and the people have not begun to clean it up yet. Kyle Rittenhouse set out to do basically high school volunteer stuff that night, to clean up graffiti from storefronts and buildings. He did not even possess the FULL mindset of armed combat when the leftist thugs decided they wanted to be Swiss cheese...

    Let that sink in for a second... When men, many men decide that they are going to head out and possess the actual intention and mindset to make some people suffer very badly, it will NOT be pleasant to see...
     

    Steel head

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    I disagree... we are a failing state, not a failed state... as long as there is breath to resist, it is not gone... we are in an ultra high stakes poker game, more cards are to be shown as the game further unfolds... 474,000,000 firearms say there is a great deal of "ante" left for the pot..
    E503C720-493B-4C5C-AF2F-B54C05FEEEA0.png
    Regardless of what the left and media say they are still the minority.
    Unfortunately we neglected the indoctrination in our schools so a lot of youth are totally mush brains along with the general problem of being idiots anyways.
    There’s still hope but the road may be bumpy.
     

    Blue Sky Country

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  • I disagree... we are a failing state, not a failed state... as long as there is breath to resist, it is not gone... we are in an ultra high stakes poker game, more cards are to be shown as the game further unfolds... 474,000,000 firearms say there is a great deal of "ante" left for the pot..

     

    W54/XM-388

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    Too many "Good" people stopped worshiping The Almighty Creator as the ultimate authority long ago and stopped caring about what was actually right and just and correct and instead bow down and slavishly worship "the law" made up by evil men.

    Then instead of holding people directly and personally accountable for their actions as is just, they went on this whole thing about excusing all the crimes, evil and oppression "The King's Men" did under some stupid idea that "Just following orders", or "Just doing your duty" or "Just obeying the law / enforcing the law" was somehow a perfect excuse for anything bad someone did.

    It's why you can't really escape the cycle of history, the "Good" folks always "good" their way into becoming slaves to the evil tyrants who get to take over and make things so bad that eventually it all collapses down and a small band of "Good" folks with actual "Balls" say F... this and do what it takes to fix things and try to make it better. Then they die and their children go soft and the cycle starts again.
     

    Vodoun daVinci

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    A failed state is a political body that has disintegrated to a point where basic conditions and responsibilities of a sovereign government no longer function properly (see also fragile state and state collapse). A state can also fail if the government loses its legitimacy even if it is performing its functions properly. For a stable state it is necessary for the government to enjoy both effectiveness and legitimacy. Likewise, when a nation weakens and its standard of living declines, it introduces the possibility of total governmental collapse. The Fund for Peace characterizes a failed state as having the following characteristics:

    Common characteristics of a failing state include a central government so weak or ineffective that it has an inability to raise taxes or other support, and has little practical control over much of its territory and hence there is a non-provision of public services. When this happens, widespread corruption and criminality, the intervention of state and non-state actors, the appearance of refugees and the involuntary movement of populations, sharp economic decline, and military intervention from both within and without the state in question can occur.[1]

    Metrics have been developed to describe the level of governance of states. The precise level of government control required to avoid being considered a failed state varies considerably amongst authorities.[2] Furthermore, the declaration that a state has "failed" is generally controversial and, when made authoritatively, may carry significant geopolitical consequences.[2]

    VooDoo
     

    Blue Sky Country

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  • Rome was a failed state briefly...

    Then it became an empire...

    It's values live on today in the Constitution of the United States...

    So, Rome never died...

    It just changed and adapted.

    Let each line sink in for a second.

    The USA is the modern reincarnation of the Roman Republic and Empire, with a legal and moral code handed down from the time of the Caesars, albeit with some modifications here and there.

    If the modern USA even were to fail, it's ideas and values will be reconstructed somewhere else, and those who made it fail will be made to pay a stiff price in retribution.
     

    madppcs

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    If the Supreme court gets together with legislation and advises them on how to re-write bills and pass them as a tax (Obamacare) you think they are going to just openly rule in favor of anything on the 2nd Amendment?
    We as Americans must show proof of purchase of a product (Health Insurance) because we are told we have to. What makes any executive order on gun rights any different?
    How many of us are rising up against our savior Trump and his banning of bump stocks?
    How many of us are rising up against ANYTHING against the 2nd amendment?
    How many of us believe that we must have (Legal Standing) to challenge anything against the 2nd Amendment?
    How many of us are just going to get back in our Bear Pit to complain about more of our rights stripped away?

    Im also one of the (Us and We) because Im just as guilty as everyone else I speak of.
     

    DevilDocAZ

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    I’m looking forward to mother’s seeing tears in the eyes of their children’s emaciated faces.

    Maybe then the well fed will be brought to their knees?

    Until then we just have a lot of very comfortable people complaining w full bellies, lots of toys, stuff stuff and stuff.

    I’ll load mags when Amazon profits decline. Until then I’ll just keep reading the ol echo chamber. While literally eating the most delicious $14 bacon I’ve ever tasted.
     
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    longshooter

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    There's a couple of things on his list that are part of my hard line but I will refrain from discussing what they are and what I will do.
    It will all or partially be treated as a thief breaking into your castle to rob or harm. It will be met with force as needed. They are backdooring us into compliance as we speak. The war has already started.
     

    TexPatriot

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    If the Supreme court gets together with legislation and advises them on how to re-write bills and pass them as a tax (Obamacare) you think they are going to just openly rule in favor of anything on the 2nd Amendment?
    We as Americans must show proof of purchase of a product (Health Insurance) because we are told we have to. What makes any executive order on gun rights any different?
    How many of us are rising up against our savior Trump and his banning of bump stocks?
    How many of us are rising up against ANYTHING against the 2nd amendment?
    How many of us believe that we must have (Legal Standing) to challenge anything against the 2nd Amendment?
    How many of us are just going to get back in our Bear Pit to complain about more of our rights stripped away?

    Im also one of the (Us and We) because Im just as guilty as everyone else I speak of.
    Everyone is guilty, myself included. When we can't even discuss what our basic rights are, protected by our Constitution, we are already under attack and it's working. The founding fathers would be banned.
     

    BullGear

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    I fear for the world my grandchildren will grow up in. I never thought I would see the degradation of my country as I have in the past 12-15 years. My father died a few years ago and as a WWII vet, he would have been ashamed to see his country today.

    I can't imagine what this country will be like after I'm gone. The thought of us fighting to keep a socialist party from gaining control is unimaginable. How did we get to this point?
     

    hunter1959

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    Everyone is guilty, myself included. When we can't even discuss what our basic rights are, protected by our Constitution, we are already under attack and it's working. The founding fathers would be banned.

    well stated in two sentences.... Consider the 1st A..... the only truly allowed free speech is that which comes from the left and supports the left.... ANTIFA, BLM are allowed to destroy the fabric of the intent of the Founding Fathers, allowed to destroy physical monuments to our culture, physically attack those from the right in what is called peaceful protest, and get away with it without even a trace of equal treatment under the laws of the land... Anyone from the right who speaks in opposition is branded with any and all epithets popular with the left... they stamp out opposing views both in the classroom and on campuses across the country... it is working, and needs response that they will understand..
     
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    TexPatriot

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    People are and have been rising up, albeit (for now) peaceably. VA and AZ, just for two of them.

    More oppression is coming, worse oppression.

    There will come a time when the gloves come off. I don't like that idea.

    But I don't have to like an idea for it to be right.

    Greg
    It's better than knowing History students will otherwise look back at the Fall of America and it's reasons and wonder why armed citizens didn't get off their couches and prevent it.
     

    sirhrmechanic

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    Remember the broad from the IRS who got caught red-handed targeting anyone who was associated with the Tea Party?

    Audits, attacks, personal audits, freezing accounts... she got caught red-handed and retired with her full-pension AND no sanctions at all. Along with the rest of her department.

    You have a farm? Maybe they find an endangered species on it? You have a business? Send in OSHA or EPA to conduct an audit. Claim tax evasion, freeze your bank accounts. Claim child abuse and seize your kids. Have neighbors red flag you because they don't like you.

    The USG has a monopoly on force in the USA. That was a line from a Michigan Congressman (nice guy... only scientist in Congress c. 1995) in response to questions from early Internet Companies about how the USG thought it could ever regulate the Internet... while these early Internet Savants were claiming it was un-regulatable.

    That's how.

    Sirhr
     

    Rlandry

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    When they have left you with nothing left to lose, it might as well be taken to the streets and settled for good. After all, what do you have to lose?
     

    W54/XM-388

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    The nail in the coffin is when we become completely cashless and all money is entirely digital.
    Modern money is just something made up that we all agree has value.
    Lots of things can take the place of money, for example look at the CryptoCurrency boom. Useless math calculations that everybody agrees has "value" because of the cost to produce them.

    I'll bet barter goes into high gear if cash goes away.
    9mm rounds instead of cash?
    lots of things that can be traded.
     

    Gregor.Samsa

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    Modern money is just something made up that we all agree has value.
    Lots of things can take the place of money, for example look at the CryptoCurrency boom. Useless math calculations that everybody agrees has "value" because of the cost to produce them.

    I'll bet barter goes into high gear if cash goes away.
    9mm rounds instead of cash?
    lots of things that can be traded.
    True but once you are deemed a dissenter by the government, your savings, investments etc. could be cleared clean slate. Once you run out of material goods to barter.....
     

    W54/XM-388

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    True but once you are deemed a dissenter by the government, your savings, investments etc. could be cleared clean slate. Once you run out of material goods to barter.....
    Lots of people in this country currently live without bank accounts, savings accounts, investments and such.
    If you don't want to submit to being a sheep, then you'll have to make sacrifices.
    Most will take the easy way out and submit to the government and be grumbling but obedient sheep.
    A smaller number will stop worrying about "the law" and band together to form the freedom resistance and this time be willing to actually help not just cluck their heads and say "you should have followed the law" like so many here do...

    Something to remember is that your possessions, wealth, money, property and responsibilities are the chains that keep you from being truly free and the chains that keep you enslaved to your betters. Once those are gone....
     

    The D

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    Here's part of my signed permission slip that allows me to say "fuck all that nonsense" to those that threaten my freedoms

    View attachment 7478151
    I’ll take it one step further into the ether. My name isn’t on this piece of paper so I do not consent to this supposed social contract.
     

    Snipe260

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    The only thing keeping shit together right now is the fact that people have stuff. Once our stuff gets taken away there is nothing to lose.
    When they take your stuff! You will be defeated!
     

    hunter1959

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    I started this thread to make the point that if you have it, and want to keep it, you have to fight for it.. given time, and no resistance all of the posts here are pointing to one thing... they take it all, unless it is prevented... they have the power given the control of the government... they don't have it yet... but we know that is their game
     

    NCHillbilly

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    I fear for the world my grandchildren will grow up in. I never thought I would see the degradation of my country as I have in the past 12-15 years. My father died a few years ago and as a WWII vet, he would have been ashamed to see his country today.

    I can't imagine what this country will be like after I'm gone. The thought of us fighting to keep a socialist party from gaining control is unimaginable. How did we get to this point?
    Apathy and willful ignorance.
     
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    TexPatriot

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    Modern money is just something made up that we all agree has value.
    Lots of things can take the place of money, for example look at the CryptoCurrency boom. Useless math calculations that everybody agrees has "value" because of the cost to produce them.

    I'll bet barter goes into high gear if cash goes away.
    9mm rounds instead of cash?
    lots of things that can be traded.
    Yeah, or an underground black market where people just keep using cash.
     
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    BlackPawn

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    I would say that there are many problems with the united States today and it is not simply the federal or state government. I say that the United States has never been perfect and has never had a target where it was heading. The whole idea of our republic is that groups of people would come together to argue and agree and that we the people would elect leaders to do the arguing and agreeing in favor of all of us. It was in the hopes of our founding fathers that we have more than two main political parties but we do not. We have two. That is because in my opinion elected parties from the beginning ran to gain fame and power of our glorious young nation. The two party system is one problem. The other problem is modern social programs such as state run schooling and education. When the state runs schooling you dont know what your children are being taught. In college I had very many leftist biased professors that taught their opinions as facts to young minds. Being well educated should be a right for all but biased education should not be apart of the system. My third point i would like to point out is that we have already passed the point of government over reach when the state has the power to mandate shutdowns of peoples livelihoods. The United States was supposed to be build on choice and limited government. We now let the governments choose which businesses can stay open and which cant. The government now has a say in who's business can stay open and who's will be shut down who will lose their livelihood and who will not. In alaska our governor made a speech asking those that can afford to please have your workers work from home if you can't afford to then be smart and simply follow covid distancing rules. I liked that he didn't try and force mandates he simply told us the problem and asked that we be smart about it. In other states entire states are being forced to shut down. That is where the line is crossed for me. No government has any right to decide my livelihood for me or how I make a living. Problem is that people own property they do not want to lose so they comply. All I have to say to that is, did the American revolutionaries have property to lose? And if so how did they comply?