Suppressors Thunder Beast How and why we test the way we do. Education video#1

TBACRAY

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Well the title pretty much sums it up. In trying to be as transparent as we can here is a short video explaining how we get the numbers we do. This is the first of many education videos to come. We want you guys to understand what we can see with the PULSE and how and why we use the numbers we do.

 

SDet

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Feb 11, 2017
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Close ups of the plots
 

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The Godfather

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It almost seems like looking at the area under the graph line down to a set floor, like 120dB, could provide some meaningful information. For instance the Magnus does peak higher than the 338 g2 but it quickly settles in at about the same level. Would that imply actual hearing damage or perceived loudness might put these two closer together in total suppression levels?
 

Cascade Hemi

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The problem is when you tell everyone they're buying 113db can but they're actually experiencing 123db at the ear. I get why you want to analyze it like that but there's a big difference when you clipped 10db.
 

TBACRAY

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"The problem is when you tell everyone they're buying 113db can but they're actually experiencing 123db at the ear. I get why you want to analyze it like that but there's a big difference when you clipped 10db."

This is why we would like some kind of real industry standard and are showing you how and why we do it this way. We are not against the idea of using duration and math to come up with a number but that has to be open for others to replicate.
 
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Zak Smith

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Here's some background. The NATO spec specifically instructs to omit the shockwave (what we've been calling the SS crack), and have a defined window after the shockwave to measure in, and also to omit ground reflections, etc. They presumably had to deal with the problem of the shockwave dominating the suppressor report sooner because they meter at 5M not 1M. We used this document to cross check our methodology.

nato1.png


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Link to the PDF
NATO STANDARD AEP-4785 Suppressor Testing Protocol on Acoustic Signature Measurement of Small Arms Suppressors Edition A Version 1 November 2015
 

carlooa

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Speaking of supersonic crack to someone thirsty for the new offerings—do you guys have a video shooting subsonic 308 and 300blk out the magnus/338 gen 2?
 

Cascade Hemi

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"The problem is when you tell everyone they're buying 113db can but they're actually experiencing 123db at the ear. I get why you want to analyze it like that but there's a big difference when you clipped 10db."

This is why we would like some kind of real industry standard and are showing you how and why we do it this way. We are not against the idea of using duration and math to come up with a number but that has to be open for others to replicate.

FWIW, I own some of your silencers and I think you're honest. Whatever you publish has to include exactly what the shooter experiences otherwise it is untrue. There's obviously more to the story but there has to be the maximum peak included. If I bought your new silencer expecting 113db at the ear it would take exactly one shot to know that number was untrue. What militaries and governments do is none of my concern.
 

Zak Smith

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Thank you for that.

What we are doing for now is listing the blast suppression number and listing the shockwave dB range along with the test procedure notes.

The difference between a 111 dB (muzzle blast) + 122 dB (shockwave) suppressor and a 122 dB (muzle blast) + 122 dB (shockwave) suppressor is very dramatic at the ear.
 

TBACRAY

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"FWIW, I own some of your silencers and I think you're honest. Whatever you publish has to include exactly what the shooter experiences otherwise it is untrue. There's obviously more to the story but there has to be the maximum peak included. If I bought your new silencer expecting 113db at the ear it would take exactly one shot to know that number was untrue. What militaries and governments do is none of my concern."
First off thanks for owning our cans. We are trying to be open and push for a standard. Like Zak pointed out sonic crack and blast have way different durations.
If I put a suppressor on that matched the crack and put the Magnus on you would hear the difference without a doubt. Thats why 338 cans sound so good on sub calibers. Lots of manufacturers to talk to at SHOT. We will come up with a way that includes the sonic crack but still shows what can performs better. Main reason of this video was to get this whole thing going.
 

E. Bryant

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  • Oct 25, 2010
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    This is probably a good time to note that the potential for ear damage is dependent mainly upon momentum transfer potential (AKA impulse, or "area under the curve"), and not the peak pressure of any single component of the sound signature. This is why it's generally considered OK to ignore the sonic crack of the bullet, action closing noise, refections, etc.
     

    Baron23

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    There's obviously more to the story but there has to be the maximum peak included.
    But how many people shopping for a suppressor just look at a single number on manf sites and compares them with absolutely zero knowledge of what is behind these figures.

    I'm glad they are now showing shockwave in addition to blast suppression....but to just have changed their one number would be, I think, committing competitive suicide...no?

    And that is why I support some sort of standard so that diff manf can't cherry pick a number.

    Just my thoughts as I wait for my Ultra 7 to get out of jail! haha
     

    Zak Smith

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    We could show all the large OD cans and all the 338 cans and include the shockwave and they'll all meter at pretty much the same number. It's not really a useful exercise other than to demonstrate that they're all quieter than the shockwave. We could shoot that on video after SHOT.
     
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    carlooa

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    We could show all the large OD cans and all the 338 cans and include the shockwave and they'll all meter at pretty much the same number. It's not really a useful exercise other than to demonstrate that they're all quieter than the shockwave. We could shoot that on video after SHOT.
    I really appreciate TBACs transparency with the metering methodology. It’s hard to judge when everyone has a different measuring stick.

    As a related aside to the supersonic crack hubbub, did you know a small child can produce sounds up to 120dB when crying? :ROFLMAO:

     

    Cascade Hemi

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    But how many people shopping for a suppressor just look at a single number on manf sites and compares them with absolutely zero knowledge of what is behind these figures.

    I'm glad they are now showing shockwave in addition to blast suppression....but to just have changed their one number would be, I think, committing competitive suicide...no?

    And that is why I support some sort of standard so that diff manf can't cherry pick a number.

    Just my thoughts as I wait for my Ultra 7 to get out of jail! haha

    If they'll exclude the peak they'll get accused of cherry picking that too. Just show both, it's the entire story after all.
     
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