Tom Irwin's Response to Me regarding the UK Article

[pmclaine]

for the reasons you mention in the post above is why i avoid the NRA.

i asked myself a long time ago, "what can I do on MY level that is going to make a difference?" the only answer i can come up with is recruiting new shooters. it's easier than one might think. keep your eyes and ears open for someone who wants to learn. just be careful to be knowlegable without talking down. that's the biggest thing. make it fun. and i have to say, it's effective. grow the ranks of people who shoot. that's the key.

We have probably all met gun store owners that have turned more people off from shooting due to their brusque manner and disdain for new guy questions. That type gun owner or the dick, usually a boyfriend, that gives his girl or a friend a twelve gauge and tells the others around him "watch this".

Obama made a lot of new gun owners. I see lots of them at my club. Some people get pissed that their shooting times have become more crowded or they sneer at the guy not able to hit the 5 gallon can at 50 yards.

They should see the full ranges as more people with skin in the game and than help out the guy struggling so he really bores into and invests in the sport like a dog tick and once he has his $8000 AI and the government is threatening to take it away he is going to be like "From my cold dead hands....."

Why should we be the only ones that suffer from gun rich, cash poor? Share the misery.

 

[W54/XM-388]

What we need to do is find the biggest most evil but effective public relations / public influence firms there are and pay them huge amounts of money for results, much the same as our enemies do. The problem is coming up with several million at once is hard and nobody wants to pony up, but will buy at inflated prices at the next run.

"Public Opinion" and "Public Perception" is simply who is paying the most money for results.

 

[NovaHunter]

for the reasons you mention in the post above is why i avoid the NRA.

i asked myself a long time ago, "what can I do on MY level that is going to make a difference?" the only answer i can come up with is recruiting new shooters. it's easier than one might think. keep your eyes and ears open for someone who wants to learn. just be careful to be knowlegable without talking down. that's the biggest thing. make it fun. and i have to say, it's effective. grow the ranks of people who shoot. that's the key.

I do agree that growing the ranks of shootèrs is something we can all do to make a difference, but there's quite a few other things we can do.

Here in Virginia, we have a very strong state level 2A group. They help organize a lobby day where quite literally hundreds of shooters and sportsmen go to the state Capitol and meet with our state legislators about 2A issies. I've been actively involved in a number of state level campaigns, and policy wise I helped my state delegate write a bill a few years ago to deal with CLEO's who were sitting on Form 4's and not signing them. Our bill didn't become law due to our democrat governor, and the issue is moot now, but we fought to make progress.

Getting involved in our communities, and working to elect pro 2A legislators at every level can make a difference. Additionally, everytime we hunt or shoot on another's property people watch us. We are our own ambassadors and we should strive to represent our group the best we can. It all can make a difference.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Something tells me this is Lady Gaga and it ain't gonna happen.

Nope, aviatrix is in fact NOT Lady Gaga and is gone. She made her way over to Brian Enos forums if you want to stop by and say hi.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

About Scout. It was specific that if it didn't work out he would reopen the old forum. You people don't listen. He stated the reason for the move and they made sense for the direction he wanted to take his show. It didn't work out as planned and he kept his promise. Trying to build a case against him by questioning his decision making is gay. I'm no boot licking lackey. I got banned bitching about scout. People bitch about losing a lot of talent because of the move. It just proves his point in this thread on how picking your own bad hill to die on accomplishes nothing. There is no alternative to the fuck you crowd that grabbed their buckets and dragged off. This his one man show and if he wants to lobby that is his prerogative. What we get for free overall should outweigh so show some loyalty or respect if he is on a crusade and you disagree. Some of you don't get the company language at all here. This thread is a perfect example. He is finding out who the faggots are and that wasn't his intent because some people don't recognize when he starts a topic with an agenda that he feels is for the greater good in his mind. The result is he loses respect because people piss on his boots and tell him its raining just because they don't recognize what he is trying to do and feel they have the misguided right. I sometimes wonder if some of you act like this at work or running your own business. Must really suck to work with you pricks or put up with your customer service.

 

[oneshot86]

Nope, aviatrix is in fact NOT Lady Gaga and is gone. She made her way over to Brian Enos forums if you want to stop by and say hi.

no disrespect to anyone, but aviatrix got what she was asking for

 

[1J04]

no disrespect to anyone, but aviatrix got what she was asking for

None at all, and yes, ask repeatedly knowing damn good and well this has been pushed to the limit, as well as the HMFIC, and whammo, ya get what ya want.

 

[diverdon]

I enjoyed many of Aviatrix's posts, and in the theoretical realm I agreed with most of her ideas though I have always realized that in the real world one has to be more flexible and adaptable. When it comes to bump stocks (like Tom Irwin) I don't see any use for them and like Frank I don't see any reason to defend them when doing so will place more important things at risk. Just to clarify I do see a use for full auto. I do think the 1934 act that regulates full auto and cans is a violation of the second amendment. If there were any part of that nefarious act that I could get repealed I would do so.

Anyone who believes that some how having a bump stock is somehow a viable substitute for having a auto is an idiot. Running around acting like your hair is on fire over bump stocks just proves someone is an idiot. If you need a windmill to joust with at least pick the FFA of 1934, if enough of us pick the correct battles then perhaps someday we will win our freedom back.

 

[pmclaine]

Thing is though we always seem to bargain away shit and the other side has never acquiesced to us unless compelled by a court.

We need to push the idea of "in common use".

"In common use" is exactly what the FF felt was appropriate for us to own and to further define it in common use would be those firearms used by our military.

The idea is to have a populace at least as well armed as the military otherwise the acknowledgement of the freedom is useless.

Had Miller not died before his appeal to the Supreme Court it's likely the term "in common use" would have been given precedent regards his charge of carrying a sawed off shotgun because the court would have heard of the common practice of militaries using "trench guns".....

but he died and I doubt the activist make up of the courts today will reopen that window of opportunity.

Scalia was certainly there but again death took the chance.

if death only had a desire to meet RBG.........

 

[Lowlight]

Aviatrix is a chick ?

LOL,

Had I known that I may not have gone the "coward" route,

 

[pmclaine]

Aviatrix is a chick ?

LOL,

Had I known that I may not have gone the "coward" route,

AviaTRIX

DominaTRIX

Come on man where is the attention to detail?

If you are not careful your next Craig's List ad you respond to might be a pain in your ass.

 

[Lowlight]

Honestly, I think it was the first time I saw any of the posts ...

that was my bad,

 

[QuickNDirty]

Honestly, I think it was the first time I saw any of the posts ...

that was my bad,

Good job, LL. Run off the only born-female ever to wander 'round these parts.

 

[Mike_Honcho]

For the good of the order - RE bump stocks.

I would encourage that words and phrases have meaning. Thus to say that there is a goal of ‘growing the ranks of shooters ‘rings hollow when combined with “ridiculous / don’t see any use for them”.

This is no different than a Fudd / Joe Biden telling you that you don’t need anything more than a SG in your quiver. Some ought to step back and realize that ‘shooting’ means something different to virtually everyone. Many / most folks here are focused on a very narrow aspect of shooting. Consequently the amount of time, thought, and money they have put toward that narrow aspect would be viewed by the general populous as folly. There really are some folks that just like to pull the trigger for the giggles and could care less if they are just shooting dirt - b/c it puts a smile on their face.

The big tent doesn’t stay big if the karaoke machine doesn’t have a little something for everyone to sing along to......


It ain’t my thing, but if it’s your thing, and you’re responsible in your actions - enjoy the shit out of it.

 

[1J04]

Well, here it is. It's under fire now and I'm "STILL" a staunch don't give an inch fucker. But I gotta shitty attitude.

 

[Veer_G]

Well, here it is. It's under fire now and I'm "STILL" a staunch don't give an inch fucker. But I gotta shitty attitude.

Well, I suppose this is the point at which all the Fudds of every stripe are going to rise up and say "Enough is enough!"

Right? Right?

The very best thing that was said in this thread was the post with the advice to simply say "No. Fuck you."

They want everything, especially our ability to resist attempts to bypass Constitutional protections.

If people of one particular interest in shooting believe that they're safe, especially if they sacrifice others for their benefit, they're only fooling themselves.

They won't stop.

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...

 

[pmclaine]

Fudds may be a little better informed this time.

Over the black Friday weekend Olympic ran a sale on ARs (M4 configuration) that if you had 4 buyers each rifle could be had for about $375 or so.

About 7-8 coworkers bought them and maybe 2 of those are "gun guys", 2 are serious hunters that have hunting rifles already and there is little game open in this state for ARs, and the others never shoot.

The never shoot guys laughingly said "The Revolution is coming and they want to be ready".

This shits a mess but there are little glimmers of hope.

 

[W54/XM-388]

If the Slide Fire stocks get pushed back to a regulatory review by the ATF and no legislation is passed, then I think it's mostly a win.

In any case as if the threat of negative legislation goes away that is a win.

The possible best outcome is the ATF says that that specific slide fire stock was submitted with misleading paperwork and is no longer approved... But they will let owners register them as a machine gun if they want to keep them.... For The Win!!! (With just a little help from congress removing a little clause in a 1980s law)....

There would be a cause we could get behind, get the congress to in the same bill open up new machine gun registration permanently and make owners of slide fire devices register them as machine guns or turn them in... But I'm sure congress would find a way to mess it up. You never know however, the congress folks always want to keep their seats and make everyone happy... somebody with enough leverage might convince them to pass a bill that headlines "outlawing slide fire stocks (by specific name)... but in the small print says without class III registration and opens up new machine gun registrations)... they get the liberals to think they win and get their supporters a long term win... just pass the thing quickly and rushed through like they did in the 1980s.

Another decent outcome is that one specific stock type gets withdrawn, but no other change in general policy about the other more spirit of the law devices that have been approved for a very long time.

The ATF re-review is not specifically good or bad for the overall cause & may actually be a good thing. If it comes out that the current ATF administration decides the Obama appointed administrations decision regarding a very specific set of accessories was incorrect, it causes the elephant in the room to go away, in a way that can't be easily blamed on the current political setting & still leaves the door open that you can still have fire rate enhancement devices that are still approved but just ones that go up to the line rather than putting their foot on the line and shaking it.

The original Tac Triggers many years ago were first approved and then recalled when it became clear they were a bit more "auto" than the manufacturer had told the ATF (much like the slide fire stock was paperworked as a device to help people with disabilities fire their rifle when they had limited finger mobility). Other devices were still approved with a bit more strict interpretation that there had to be a conscious release of the trigger and then pulling the trigger back again.

When I first saw the Slide fire stocks come on the market & saw their marketing videos, my first reaction was... I'm never buying one of those with a paper trail of any kind... countdown till recalled.....
For my full auto needs, I'm holding out to buy a real M16 but right now I kind of like having a new car instead, so I'll just go to shoots.

 

[Redmanss]

I disagree Veer, we shouldn't say "No, fuck you" to an interview, even if it's for Vox or HuffPost. We should say "Sure, and I'm videoing it myself for after the fact accuracy if you misquote me." Sad it's come to that, but it has. We still need to ensure our side is having its say in the field of popular opinion outside our echo chambers here, we just have to let them know we're on to them. And it never hurts to ask for a list of questions and also have well thought out answers to avoid those "Gotcha" moments, a moment of pause at a minimum to think before speaking.

When I'm fired up and typing, I will still write it out, go for a smoke, and come back and read it again before clicking Send or Post. But I'm a redhead with the temper to go with it, even as I get on in years, so I need a bit of cooling at times...

 

[Veer_G]

Fudds may be a little better informed this time.

Over the black Friday weekend Olympic ran a sale on ARs (M4 configuration) that if you had 4 buyers each rifle could be had for about $375 or so.

About 7-8 coworkers bought them and maybe 2 of those are "gun guys", 2 are serious hunters that have hunting rifles already and there is little game open in this state for ARs, and the others never shoot.

The never shoot guys laughingly said "The Revolution is coming and they want to be ready".

This shits a mess but there are little glimmers of hope.

I only wish that it were funny.

A kangaroo court soft coup Leftist usurpation of power, a successful, unconstitutional move against ARs and AKs, either of them could ignite this country.

 

[308pirate]

And it never hurts to ask for a list of questions and also have well thought out answers to avoid those "Gotcha" moments, a moment of pause at a minimum to think before speaking.

Even better to have your own questions ready at hand to fuck up the flow of the interview something fierce.

 

[Veer_G]

I disagree Veer, we shouldn't say "No, fuck you" to an interview, even if it's for Vox or HuffPost. We should say "Sure, and I'm videoing it myself for after the fact accuracy if you misquote me." Sad it's come to that, but it has. We still need to ensure our side is having its say in the field of popular opinion outside our echo chambers here, we just have to let them know we're on to them. And it never hurts to ask for a list of questions and also have well thought out answers to avoid those "Gotcha" moments, a moment of pause at a minimum to think before speaking.

When I'm fired up and typing, I will still write it out, go for a smoke, and come back and read it again before clicking Send or Post. But I'm a redhead with the temper to go with it, even as I get on in years, so I need a bit of cooling at times...

They see civility as weakness and acquiescence. There's no point in debate. Talking with them is like watching two 3 year olds have a conversation: one rattles on, the other doesn't really listen, but also rattles on as they blow a lot of self-centered chatter and saliva past each other's ears. Any attempt to reason with them turns into a belittling, preachy lecture about our antisocial tendencies and our lack of "common sense." Did you ever see the courtroom scene from "Bananas"?

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I think we wouldn't be as unbalanced as Fielding Mellish, but I'm pretty sure that we are in for just about that much fair play from the Deep State and the Left, and probably considerably less.

I'm afraid that there's no way that we will manage to drain the swamp before ATF administrates the Second Amendment into uselessness.

 

[308pirate]

I'm with Veer on this. The time for debate is long past. The only debate is which gun law we're going to repeal next. Fuck their idea of common sense and fuck their idea of compromise.

 

[Redmanss]

The last election wasn't won through silence, it was won because we were done being silent. Now is not the time to hide in the shadows, and that includes continuing the debate in the public space.

The debate hasn't ended until the weapons are the ones doing the talking.

 

[oneshot86]

I disagree Veer, we shouldn't say "No, fuck you" to an interview, even if it's for Vox or HuffPost. We should say "Sure, and I'm videoing it myself for after the fact accuracy if you misquote me." Sad it's come to that, but it has. We still need to ensure our side is having its say in the field of popular opinion outside our echo chambers here, we just have to let them know we're on to them. And it never hurts to ask for a list of questions and also have well thought out answers to avoid those "Gotcha" moments, a moment of pause at a minimum to think before speaking.

When I'm fired up and typing, I will still write it out, go for a smoke, and come back and read it again before clicking Send or Post. But I'm a redhead with the temper to go with it, even as I get on in years, so I need a bit of cooling at times...

yes, indeed...

why would you walk into a gauntlet? i would never take an interview unless i knew the questions, had my own video and knew who was doing the questions...but alas, it sounds like the author of Toms article was a little more filthy than what i even would have protected myself from, he flat assed lied...

old saying... the fellow who says he will meet you halfway, usually thinks he is standing on the deviding line

sidenote, me not minding my own business, Redman, ya bastage, quite smoking...

 

[oneshot86]

The last election wasn't won through silence, it was won because we were done being silent. Now is not the time to hide in the shadows, and that includes continuing the debate in the public space.

The debate hasn't ended until the weapons are the ones doing the talking.

love it

 

[Veer_G]

That little brown box that you see underneath everything that I post is a quote from a letter.

It was written by the last flesh-and-blood guru in Sikhism, Guru Gobind Singh Ji, to a particularly nasty Muslim ruler named Aurangzeb.

It translates thusly:

"When an affair is past every other remedy,
It is righteous, indeed to unsheath the sword."

And there, my friends, I think we are.

Debate if it makes you feel better, but keep one eye on your interlocutor, and your strong hand atop the pommel of your sword.

 

[Redmanss]

Please...

• Trump is in office, not Clinton.
• Republicans control both the House and the Senate, not the dems.
• There is no active (and realistically backed) movement to abolish the Second Amendment, nor any other of the amendments for that matter.

When it's time to go to the sword in this nation, we will all know it and we certainly won't be on The Hide, we'll be in a hide. I'm not saying the doomsday clock isn't advancing forward, but it was certainly backed up last year. Until then, we have a Constitution to support and rights to protect on the political front.

 

[308pirate]

The last election wasn't won through silence, it was won because we were done being silent. Now is not the time to hide in the shadows, and that includes continuing the debate in the public space.

The debate hasn't ended until the weapons are the ones doing the talking.

The debate with antis is over. They have no desire to understand anything and even less to compromise in the true sense of the word (where both parts give up something and gain something). They want it all.

The conversation with those in the middle and elected officials who are not ideologues for the other side continues.