I have been looking at spuhr mounts and like the innovation but I am curious what the toughest mounts really are?
Toughest scope mounts?
- Thread starter Mj30wilson900
- Start date
If pushing for pure tough and precise I would buy Area 419
I saw that torque wrench test on those and was impressed enough to start this thread as a curiosity.
Area 419 or ARC (American Rifle Company).
Honestly I don't see anything in a Spuhr that warrants the price they command. Overpriced if you ask me.
Honestly I don't see anything in a Spuhr that warrants the price they command. Overpriced if you ask me.
I have been blown away by the fit and finish of Area 419s mounts and rings. And I like that they include leveling pins and they bore them out after anodizing to ensure not just a uniform bore, but it seems like more friction is offered against the scope body.
Are they the most durable? No idea yet, but they seem top notch and I will continue to use them for all my precision scope mounting needs.
Are they the most durable? No idea yet, but they seem top notch and I will continue to use them for all my precision scope mounting needs.
Curious why the most pro use them in competition is it that they have more giveaways or sponsorships then?
I've never seen any lab-based quantifiable repeatable testing on scope mounts that would provide useful data. I'm sure the military has done some, would be neat to see those reports.
My guess would be NEAR, ARC M-BRACE, or Badger.
My guess would be NEAR, ARC M-BRACE, or Badger.
Even though they haven't really been in style since the 2000-2010 timeframe, it's pretty damn hard to beat the oldschool Badger steel rings for durability IMO.
Sure they can get rusty if you don't take care of them, and they're heavy... but they are absolute tanks. I can't say I've ever seen one fail.
I have however seen them crush the crap out of a scope tube though when they were overtightened by someone who didn't know when to stop... lol
Regarding Spuhr, I've had 5 clamp bars crack between 11 Sphurs over 12 years or so of use. I see they're now including steel clamp bars on their newest Gen 3 models (they may have finally solved the clamp bar issue with the material change, which is something that was suggested to them several years back) but every now and then you still see new pictures and reports of cracked Spuhr ring caps, and their use of countersunk screws on the ring caps is problematic from a design standpoint. Also quite a few complaints that it's easy to strip the screw heads. Still see a lot of them though because they look pretty cool, they are available in a lot of diameter/height/cant combos, the 45 degree ring seam makes for a very low profile on the top and side so it's easy to read your turrets, and there are a lot of accessories made for them. I won't use any more though based on the problems I kept having with them over the years.
Plenty of other good mounts and rings that don't have a history of cracking like Spuhr-- Nightforce, Seekins, Badger, ARC, A419, Near, Geissele, MPA, Griffin, ERA-Tac, Reptilia, MDT, Hawkins, etc. I'm sure there's more I missed.
Right now I'm partial to ARC, Badger C1, and Hawkins. After my 5th Spuhr clamp bar cracked a few years ago I sold them all and switched brands. Right now I have 10 ARC mounts, 1 set of ARC rings, 4 Badger C1 mounts, and 2 sets of Hawkins Ultralight Tac rings that have been in service for the last 4 years or so with zero issues.
Sure they can get rusty if you don't take care of them, and they're heavy... but they are absolute tanks. I can't say I've ever seen one fail.
I have however seen them crush the crap out of a scope tube though when they were overtightened by someone who didn't know when to stop... lol
Regarding Spuhr, I've had 5 clamp bars crack between 11 Sphurs over 12 years or so of use. I see they're now including steel clamp bars on their newest Gen 3 models (they may have finally solved the clamp bar issue with the material change, which is something that was suggested to them several years back) but every now and then you still see new pictures and reports of cracked Spuhr ring caps, and their use of countersunk screws on the ring caps is problematic from a design standpoint. Also quite a few complaints that it's easy to strip the screw heads. Still see a lot of them though because they look pretty cool, they are available in a lot of diameter/height/cant combos, the 45 degree ring seam makes for a very low profile on the top and side so it's easy to read your turrets, and there are a lot of accessories made for them. I won't use any more though based on the problems I kept having with them over the years.
Plenty of other good mounts and rings that don't have a history of cracking like Spuhr-- Nightforce, Seekins, Badger, ARC, A419, Near, Geissele, MPA, Griffin, ERA-Tac, Reptilia, MDT, Hawkins, etc. I'm sure there's more I missed.
Right now I'm partial to ARC, Badger C1, and Hawkins. After my 5th Spuhr clamp bar cracked a few years ago I sold them all and switched brands. Right now I have 10 ARC mounts, 1 set of ARC rings, 4 Badger C1 mounts, and 2 sets of Hawkins Ultralight Tac rings that have been in service for the last 4 years or so with zero issues.
Does anyone have experience with the ARC "Air" brace mount ? ... The 4 ounce cantilever
Wondering about the toughness of that one.
I have the regular M-Brace ... And that thing is awesome. I cannot imagine it ever breaking.
Considering the Air brace for an SP10
Wondering about the toughness of that one.
I have the regular M-Brace ... And that thing is awesome. I cannot imagine it ever breaking.
Considering the Air brace for an SP10
I highly doubt this is true especially today with so many as good or better options for less out there. Some people use them but there are many others out there that won’t crack. Seems like you have your heart set on a Spuhr so spend the money and get it but I wouldn’t. I’d be looking at Area419, ARC, MPA, Seekins or Hawkins.
I'm curious what pushed you towards something so beefy and heavy. Did you have a bad experience or are you just looking to avoid one?
I’ve experienced the bar cracked on a spuhr as well. Seen some rings crack as well. I wouldn’t use spuhr if you’re looking for toughness
Haven’t used a 419 but they look good. I have a badger C1 max that’s seems to be build tough as nails
Haven’t used a 419 but they look good. I have a badger C1 max that’s seems to be build tough as nails
- Nov 3, 2010
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Badger, ARC, Seekins, I have some of them all and they seem tough enough. Anything will/can break(seen some steel badger rings break at the hands of an AMU armorer once).
That being said, I’ve read enough and seen enough bad examples that I won’t run a SPHUR mount with the exception of the lightweight hunting version I still have on my 7-08. I’ve had several sets and sold them all. There is good aftermarket support to get replacement parts usually for free, but why take the chance
That being said, I’ve read enough and seen enough bad examples that I won’t run a SPHUR mount with the exception of the lightweight hunting version I still have on my 7-08. I’ve had several sets and sold them all. There is good aftermarket support to get replacement parts usually for free, but why take the chance
Tough in terms of what? Physical impacts? Wear over time? I ask because I went down this road a few years back and realized, the mount is only as tough as the optic or the screws attaching it. Meaning, if it's an impact due to a fall, wouldnt the optic take the hit rather than the mount? You'll ruin the scope pretty much before any mount fails. Or, if the scopes say a steel unertl, and the mounts bulletproof, but mounted with old factory #6 screws was it? Then the mount/scope as a whole unit would pull those little screws right out of the holes. It's not like the mount would ever take a ton of abuse just by itself outside of the rifle or scope sharing that damage.
And are you talking pic mounts that mount to a rail that is screwed to your action? Or screwed directly to. If it's the former, I usually go for an all steel pic rail with recoil lug (only a few out there) (and utilizing all 4 mounting holes too) and make sure my holes are the bigger of the two (#8 is it?), red loctite that in, then use steel rings like leupolds or badgers. You can even double those rings up fore and aft of the turret housing for more strength. But like I said, it's soo tough now, that any hard impacts either destroying your scope, or yanking the base screws out.
But for the trend of all aluminum 1 piece set ups, the Audere Adversus Gen 2, MDT's one piece, and Nightforce's come to mind. I cant see any of those failing too often.
And are you talking pic mounts that mount to a rail that is screwed to your action? Or screwed directly to. If it's the former, I usually go for an all steel pic rail with recoil lug (only a few out there) (and utilizing all 4 mounting holes too) and make sure my holes are the bigger of the two (#8 is it?), red loctite that in, then use steel rings like leupolds or badgers. You can even double those rings up fore and aft of the turret housing for more strength. But like I said, it's soo tough now, that any hard impacts either destroying your scope, or yanking the base screws out.
But for the trend of all aluminum 1 piece set ups, the Audere Adversus Gen 2, MDT's one piece, and Nightforce's come to mind. I cant see any of those failing too often.
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Yea mainly holding optic secure under recoil drops and such. I under stand scope may give up before mount but I still want the scope attached next time my rifle takes a tumble.
Curious what the special forces and snipes use? Rings or one piece and what brand?
Doesn’t impact this decision just a curiosity.
What the military uses varies WIDELY, depending on which branch and which rifle, and which requirements list. I wouldnt use them as a reference though honestly lol. You're going to get two answers there; "ive used scope mount x for 30 years with no problems." and then you're going to get "I broke mine on the first day at the range!" so.. yea.
Honestly, any of those that I suggested will hold your scope very securely. What guns this goin on, and is it direct bolt or pic rail.
Oh and dont get a spurh. Wayy too many reports of them breaking, and NO scope mount on EARTH is worth 600 dollars even if it were made from solid Rhodium. Any man that feels his scope mount is worth 600 dollars can go fuck himself; It's a scope mount, not a part on an engine used by NASA.
Careful, you going to get the leg humpers come in and says that everyone that has had one broken torqued it on wrong. And Mile High has great CS and will take care of you.
I dont doubt Mile High's CS, but that has nothing to do with what I call the Mercedes syndrome, where one feels superior, and thus feels like their products, which arent any better than their competitors are just worth more because it has THEIR symbol on them. There's no way a 600 dollar spur is 300 dollars better than a good 300 dollar mount lol.
ALTHOUGH, there is some creedence to the claim of over torquing. I've worked as a car mechanic and bike mechanic and fairly experienced amateur gun smith for quite a while, and you'd be REALLY REALLY surprised at the special tools MOST mechanics or smiths DONT possess. It grinds my gears soo bad I cant stand it. If theres a special tool for that job and instead you're using a punch and a hammer, I'm going to have a come apart. Use the right tool! And with that, I know a ton of people that dont own torque wrenches lol. I wouldnt be surprised if those ring screws were torqued on to 40 lb/in whatsoever.
Most mounts are tough enough. Any steel mount will be stronger than alloy mounts.
Is it needed? Depends.
The original M40 A1 mount is about as tough as any I’ve seen. Yet it’s heavy and limits what scopes can be used.
Scope mounts have virtues beyond brute strength.
Is it needed? Depends.
The original M40 A1 mount is about as tough as any I’ve seen. Yet it’s heavy and limits what scopes can be used.
Scope mounts have virtues beyond brute strength.
Most people don’t own torque wrenches, let alone multiple across inch and foot pound ranges.
Take a look at this thread about wet mounting between the mount and the rail (not the tube). Seems persuasive and I started doing it first with light oil, and now with tiny amounts of grease as I assume it won’t leave the scene quite so fast.
Haven’t had the misfortune of dropping anything to test it.
Wet Mounting Scope Mounts - Where It All Started
I figure since Hakan did a video interview about it, maybe it’s time to bring all the testing to the light. In a nutshell, I experienced a scope zero shift in 2015 from the rifle falling over in the hotel room at the Hide Cup. When i returned home and started testing to find the origin of the...
www.snipershide.com
While true, every person who owns a gun with an optic should also own a basic Fix It Stick kit.
After reading about wet mounting and seeing it recommended by some professionals, I’ve started doing it too, worst case I use up some lube. It seems like a good precaution.Take a look at this thread about wet mounting between the mount and the rail (not the tube). Seems persuasive and I started doing it first with light oil, and now with tiny amounts of grease as I assume it won’t leave the scene quite so fast.
Haven’t had the misfortune of dropping anything to test it.
Wet Mounting Scope Mounts - Where It All Started
I figure since Hakan did a video interview about it, maybe it’s time to bring all the testing to the light. In a nutshell, I experienced a scope zero shift in 2015 from the rifle falling over in the hotel room at the Hide Cup. When i returned home and started testing to find the origin of the...
Even for those that do own a torque wrench, when was the last time it was calibrated?
Take a look at this thread about wet mounting between the mount and the rail (not the tube). Seems persuasive and I started doing it first with light oil, and now with tiny amounts of grease as I assume it won’t leave the scene quite so fast.
Haven’t had the misfortune of dropping anything to test it.
Wet Mounting Scope Mounts - Where It All Started
I figure since Hakan did a video interview about it, maybe it’s time to bring all the testing to the light. In a nutshell, I experienced a scope zero shift in 2015 from the rifle falling over in the hotel room at the Hide Cup. When i returned home and started testing to find the origin of the...
No oil needed. Just spit on that thang!
I got a guy in NC that does mine, but admittedly, I havent done that in quite a while.
I presume mine are still pretty close, and I often play them against each other on the same bolt, and the settings seem equal. Certainly not the end all be all of validation, but I usually use fasteners and scopes that have spec overlap (mount says 15 inlb, scope says 25).
Yup, and this becomes a variable. I'm happy as long as I'm 10% accurate (hoping I am).
Then there is the question, the machine checking the accuracy, when was the last time that machine was calibrated? and who calibrated that machine?
We had this issue with radar guns in police work. Who calibrated the analyzer to check it's accuracy, and who checked that? Came a point where the judge said if it's checked by a calibrated device, that is good enough.
The discipline is called metrology and a properly calibrated device should be able to demonstrate that its calibration is traceable to the National Institutes of Standards and Technology.
That’s how all the “who” and “how” questions you brought up are answered. If not traceable to NIST then you’re fooling yourself.
BUT, NIST traceability costs and certification must be regularly redone. And no, we don’t do that…well, maybe someone who uses tools from their work place that has metrology in place.
Exactly. I know that my tool certainly have gone byby. But the tools are still valid “target points” for me on how hard do I twist the wrench get say 20 lb/inches. My old hand no longer has that calibration setting.
I send my Vortex torque wrench back to them every year or two for calibration. They do it with no hassle. I don't even call them. I print out their service form and send it in. Generally I have it back in a week or less. I also had the pleasure of seeing their calibration equipment before.
We used to have to lap our rings for a precise fit, just to show you how far things have come fast. I still have a ring lapping kit that goes up to 30mm, which is also kind of funny, because I don't think there were any scope tubes bigger than that at the time... Old
