Rifle Scopes TReMoR3 Reticle is voodoo and Todd Hodnett is a witch doctor. Discuss.

[VaRandy]

I see where some claim to be so set in their ways they are not interesting in trying the obviously ore complex (and capable) Horus.

I am 72 and set in my ways about all aspects of my life but SCIENCE. Anything that produces a better result goes to the front for me. I am retired now and shooting more than the working years and at much longer distances.

I see two real uses for the Horus and agree that they are not for everyone.

FIRST: If you are shooting long (as determined by your capability) where your chances for a first round hit are dimishing, the fact that you can often see a strike, allows you to use that as your new reticule beats the hell out of a strike on a quarter of a reticule with no guides where you would have to walk it in,. The longer you shoot, the further the miss favors lots of possible new aiming points.

SECONDLY: If hunting, your quarry willl not stand still and allow you to walk it in. For targets that can shoot back, it becomes even more important!. I cannot understand why it is not standard equipment for the military for anything more capable at distance beyond the AR.

I do use wind dots but it requires another level of involvement when the target distance changes in real time. I will likely croak before using all the other features of the T-3!

If you do not shoot a lot to get familiar with the Horus system, it is too much for many. Same reason I am wary about being around once a year shooters with single action semi pistols.

All my shooting is long AND at at targets that scurry away if they are lucky enough to survive my carefully placed first shot. Groundhogs are the target and the distances are usually between 700 and 1500. Scope is ATACR with T3.

 

[Discogodfather]

Didn't the Marines adopt the Tremor3 recently? Who drank the koolaid or how did that happen?

 

[supercorndogs]

Its very useful. It has its drawbacks. I liked the TREMORII better than the H59 and H37.

 

[locobob]

I bought a MK5 with the T3 a few months ago, its my first hands on with the T3 and so far I'm pretty impressed with it. The wind dots are nice for quick and dirty no math holds, same for the mover hold marks. If I have time to dial and make more precise calculations then I find the floating center dot to be excellent and the rest of the reticle basically disappears... kind of like how you tune out background noise when you're focused.

 

[Barelstroker]

G'day,
I'm kinda new to snipers hide. Been reading threads for months but, just joined recently.
I'm currently in the market for a scope & reticle combo & am finding some really good info about what to consider &, what to walk away from.
I've been looking very closely at the tremor 3 reticle system. I've run dozens of ballistic combo's through my ballistic calculator &, so far, I can't seem to fault how the reticle appears to track the drift imparted to the projectiles. I've seen "through the scope" pics &, I think I could adjust to the business of the tremor 3.
The thing of it is, I have one particular use for the reticle which is virtually never dealt with or spoken about.
Here in Australia, we do a great deal of night shooting under spotlight conditions.
I was wondering if one of you guys whom owns a scope with the tremor 3 ret would be kind enough to grab hold of a good torch or spotlight at night &, see if the ret can be seen reasonably well out to 200+ yrds when aiming at a natural type target eg; something with fur or hide. Since I don't have access to a scope with the ret, this is the only Q: that I can't answer myself.

Regards.....Barelstroker

 

[beetroot]

G'day,
I'm kinda new to snipers hide. Been reading threads for months but, just joined recently.
I'm currently in the market for a scope & reticle combo & am finding some really good info about what to consider &, what to walk away from.
I've been looking very closely at the tremor 3 reticle system. I've run dozens of ballistic combo's through my ballistic calculator &, so far, I can't seem to fault how the reticle appears to track the drift imparted to the projectiles. I've seen "through the scope" pics &, I think I could adjust to the business of the tremor 3.
The thing of it is, I have one particular use for the reticle which is virtually never dealt with or spoken about.
Here in Australia, we do a great deal of night shooting under spotlight conditions.
I was wondering if one of you guys whom owns a scope with the tremor 3 ret would be kind enough to grab hold of a good torch or spotlight at night &, see if the ret can be seen reasonably well out to 200+ yrds when aiming at a natural type target eg; something with fur or hide. Since I don't have access to a scope with the ret, this is the only Q: that I can't answer myself.

Regards.....Barelstroker

Thin reticles and spotlighting don't go well together, unless the reticle is illuminated.
The T3 reticle will be no better or worse than any other thin FFP grid/tree reticle under the conditions you described.

I had a hell of a time shooting possums when spotlighting with a thin Impact 29 reticle in my VX5hd, but I've since changed to a scope with illumination and it's no problem now.

 

[Barelstroker]

Thx Beetroot,
I've pretty well decided on a S & B 3-20x50 US with either a MSR or T3 ret.
I bought an Athlon Talos BTR FFP specifically to get a handle on FFP scopes with some kind of tree ret. Been very interesting. I've learned a great deal about how the FFP works & how it applies to pest control.
I wish I could view a heap of scopes with illumination. The Talos illumination is quite good when using a spotlight because there's plenty of light on the target compared to straight dawn or dusk however, under dawn/ dusk conditions of very low light, the illumination simply washes everything out even on the lowest setting. I originally thought that a full illuminated ret would be the way to go but, now I see this probably won't be the case no matter what brand of scope. I wondered why S&B don't fully illuminate most of their rets, it seems there is method in what appears without experience, to be madness.
With the target lit by spotlight, I think that either a T3 or MSR will be quite workable however, I can't be sure unless someone is able to tell me from experience.
I'm not concerned about the ret at low magnification, as long as the ret illumination is adequate, I'm mainly concerned about the visibility of the non illuminated parts of the ret at higher mag, say 16x-18x & if it is readily visible against a spotlit grey fur clad target.

Regards...........Barelstroker

 

[deersniper]

Lots of people who know would debate this title... he's a very good salesman we can all agree on that, not much else.

The T3 came about because the T2 was a complete failure, unfortunately it takes a while for the spell and the shine to wear off, those Ah Shucks are tricky, and with enough fog, it's hard to see the truth.

It works in some cases, but not in others, if we deployed to South America, the Philippines, or place with a lot of vegetation the Tremor and Horus would quickly be found to be lacking. As long as we fight in theses dry places they will continue to fool people into thinking the are the answer... but trust me, you can learn to do the same thing just as fast with any reticle without the clutter, or confusion.

It's bad for marksmanship, it's bad for wet or places with a lot of vegetation, it's bad when people expect one result and they don't get it, but otherwise it's just mils, and we all know mils work.

A Good Salesman, a few favors to the right people, and anything can seem like magic. But trust me, it's not what it appears, like all magic misdirection is a big part of the trick.

I’m dense. Where does vegetation play into it? Spotting your rounds or shorter range ball gamer or ?

 

[deersniper]

There is more to be a sniper that dropping the hammer on someone through a loophole. You might get away with that once or twice but a lot more work is involved.

Love how this thread got hijacked. I will state my point again - Xmas Tree reticles are a fad, an evolutionary red herring, great to sell the latest thing to Departments and civilians with more money than sense. Hesketh-Pritchard would be having a quiet chuckle right about now.

Grid/Trees are a fad yet 2 years later everyone is selling their NFs to get the new NF mil xt reticle.

 

[acts238willy]

he can shoot well but anyone who shoots for a living should ...

He borrows a lot of information from a lot of people and sells it as his own, especially when you consider his only real precision rifle training was one week at Rifles Only. I remember when he showed up on the scene as "Handle Bar Doc" a cowboy action shooter.

"His system" ... do you really think he developed a "system" he just borrowed stuff from a host of people and slapped his name on it ... like the BC Method stuff for wind, it was always there, computers just made it easier to demonstrate, we use it in class all the time. Having Taught at Rifles Only for 7 years, including the early T.H. Days, I can tell you what we taught as I did a lot of the original powerpoint stuff you can see where we highlighted the method, directly from the slide. He had Horus show him the stuff that the computers used in order to find short cuts.
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Know your dope is the best answer, there are no shortcuts despite the sales pitch. Mils are mils and you can hold mils with any mil based reticle. Rifles Only taught this before anyone as they were the original Horus Instructors. The public was not as big as fans when it first came out, and took a lot of selling, favors and putting stuff in the right hands to push it to where it is now. The fact it works in the desert and in places like Afghanistan helped. Had our wars been some where else we'd be talking about a different reticle. It just so happens the AO played into Horus' hands and T.H. was there to take advantage of that.

I mean the entire "Top Secret" Loophole stuff was because of him trying to protect his turf, even though people have been shooting through holes since the first days of the rifle. His "formula" for this is probably the worst method to use out of all of them... you can figure it faster and easy with any app on the market by just changing the zero range to the target range. Instead we have fudged numbers.

I actually went to sniper school, even so we always stay away from tactics or trying to tell people how to operate, he has not figured that one out yet.

The world is full of good shooters, being a great shooter is hard, and even harder, is teaching people universal truths vs shortcut answer that only apply in limited context.

A new shooter question... I was looking at this wayback thread because it was a tremor3 topic.
Is it true that Hodnett doesn't have a lot of training? Was he in the military? There's not much about
him unless you want to join linked in.

 

[GBMaryland]

It’s funny that this is an older thread… I will say that I’ve come to like the T3. Primarily because I have it and all of my Schmidt scopes.

Yeah, there is some definite voodoo going on when it comes to the dots. Primarily because it’s not some sort of magic; the whole use of those dots becomes an issue if you don’t know where you are on the planet and your altitude changes.

On the flipside, I really do like the whole Christmas tree itself for being used for holdovers.

I’m sure this might be a different story if I was a professional shooter, killing bad guys… But I’m not so I get to use it within my limited scope, and it works relatively well.

Do I think the reticle in the latest Zeiss scopes might be more effectively used due to it’s lack of lots of crap going on… yeah.

 

[CSTactical]

For you Tremor fans, we have a few ZCO options in stock right now! https://www.cstactical.com/Zero-Compromise-Optic

Zero Compromise Optic ZC420 4-20x50 Tremor 3 $4,215.00
Zero Compromise Optic ZC527 5-27x56 Tremor 5 FDE $4,705.00

 

[CSTactical]

Man, that's some TT pricing

About $800-1,100 more for a comparable model...