Triple Aught Designs

[Cobracutter]

Same thing with Blackhawk ripping off LBTC Load out bags. Saw the exact same "design" being sold from Blackhawk for $39 as a $450 LBTC load out bag. Now don't get me wrong, I know the quality and materials are no where near the same. One is going to be used on deployments and another as a large range/gear bag.

Its not the consumer's job to police and protect intelectual property & patents. If a product is on the market for 10% of the cost and is 95% of the solution, and I am not staking my life on it.... its not a hard decision to make.

Keep in mind most of the people wearing and using this gear we froth and drool over are not and would not pay for it. It is either given as demo gear or purchased via GPC/Contracting. There are some specifics as to gov pricing and open market pricing I don't want to get into this thread, but there is a reason some stuff costs a stupid ammount of money past conventional wisdom.

I am with Papa, if its there and it works and the price is right, I'll buy it. Copycatting is the way of interational business in every industry, and trying to fight or argue that is just a waste of time. Virtualy every product in existance is an improvement or modification on an exsiting product.

For some reason, TAD does not seem to be hurting or losing sales. There is a reason, and its not just their products( Great CS always goes a long way).

 

[Brett_B]

I own several TAD pieces of clothing gear but I just realized TAD makes an identical looking pair of pants to the "operator" pants sold by LA Police gear. I'm all about buying quality and supporting USA made products. But I have to say, I can't see spending the money TAD is asking for the same pants when I can get them for $20.00. As far as quality goes, I have owned and worn the LA Police model for a few years now and they are well built. I can get 6 pairs of LAP pants for what I'd pay for 1 pair of TAD pants that are identical, and I can get them in more colors and don't have to wait crazy amounts of time.

LA Police gear pants:
LA Police Gear Operator Tactical Pants w/ Elastic Waistband

TAD Pants:
Force 10 RS Cargo Pant

The LA pants are a ripoff of the TAD design, but they are certainly not the exact same.

TAD uses 50/50 nylon and cotton. LA uses cotton/polyester.
TAD is made in the USA. LA is made in China.
TAD uses genuine YKK zippers, uses webbing for buttons, and has a great warranty/customer support.
LA has all sorts of reviews about the broken zippers and buttons flying off.

I have tried on the LA pants and own the TAD pants, and the TAD pants are worth every penny, especially if you are tired of buying made in China crap that doesn't last.

 

[poison123]

Are you 100% sure about that? I recall seeing LAP's pants for a few years before I bought a pair. I don't recall seeing TAD selling them before then and I subscribe to TAD's mailing list. Not saying LAP didn't copy the design but given the drastic price difference, difficulty with availability from TAD on everything they make, I am not complaining about which came first, the chicken or the egg, as this is one instance when I can say the lower priced item isn't lacking in quality or durability.

I bought my first pair of TADs like that on 5/06/08. But I do agree with you TAD has gotten more and more expensive every couple of production runs it seems, and turned into a trendy asshole clothing that is collected instead of worn. Not to mention they used to show more military esc pictures on their website but trended away from that as the yuppies started to wear more and more of their shit over the years.

 

[Cobracutter]

The LA pants are a ripoff of the TAD design, but they are certainly not the exact same.

TAD uses 50/50 nylon and cotton. LA uses cotton/polyester.
TAD is made in the USA. LA is made in China.
TAD uses genuine YKK zippers, uses webbing for buttons, and has a great warranty/customer support.
LA has all sorts of reviews about the broken zippers and buttons flying off.

I have tried on the LA pants and own the TAD pants, and the TAD pants are worth every penny, especially if you are tired of buying made in China crap that doesn't last.

Not to nitpick... But I keep hearing this said over and over again:

"worth every penny"... "Worth it"..... My question is, To whom? What metric or system are you using to determine this? Just pure emotion or post purchase self assurance?

From a value standpoint? Hell to the NO.
Compared to other products on the market? Probally not.
From a pure product standpoint? Maybe.

They are not magical or invincible products. They will wear with use, will tear under hard use and use the same materials as many other products. They may last a little longer, or resist wear a little better, or fit certain body styles better, but how do you quantify that value or price? The only real difference I notice in some of the cheaper and mid level gear and the high end gear is hardware and stiching. Some may use a little bit lighter or cooler material, but most of that stuff is sourced from outside vendors. They all can purchase the same material. Stiching quality and quanity is the big difference. They also tend to use a little better hardware like the poster above quoted (YKK zips , quality buttons/snaps and eyelets), but the value/price ratio is not linear.

Most of what I hear and interpret is people reassuring themself that they made a good decision to purchase expesnive ass gear. People don't like to admit mistakes/faults and sure as hell not on the internet where everyone is an opperator.

I wish people would quantify why they are better and how they compare using data and facts, and not unprovable statements.
Just my humble opinion.

 

[Jefe~]

I went full on TAD-Tard this winter once the snow started in the Afgh mountains (spent the last 3 winters farther south). I now have the Ranger Jacket, Stealth, and Stealth LT. As for where they are made: The Ranger Jacket is made in California, The Stealth and Stealth LT are made in Canada, which is completely cool with me.

The customer service, both via email and crappy Taliban-Wireless cellphone was positively fantastic, and a large reason I happily spent as much money as I did on TAD when I was able to get Arcteryx LEAF much cheaper in-country. I'm now looking to see if some of their pants are going to be a worthwhile expenditure for when the weather warms up.

I bitched and moaned about TADs prices and availability for years, but after reading countless reviews and LL's comments about them supporting the sport, I sucked it up and have been kicking myself for not having this gear sooner. It is quite frankly the TITS, and has been worth every bit of what I paid for it.

This is all spot on! I own their Ranger and Stealth hoodies and they are top notch! What I did was simply call and ask when their next shipment was coming in. They told me when and what they were expecting and I pounced on it. Yes... it is pricy but I would have saved a bunch of money if I would have just bought this stuff first and not figured out what I didn't like.

As for pants, I love my Rail Riders gear. ( I have not tried any of the TAD pants) RR is pricy but... the stuff just works!

 

[Papa Zero Three]

The LA pants are a ripoff of the TAD design, but they are certainly not the exact same.

TAD uses 50/50 nylon and cotton. LA uses cotton/polyester.
TAD is made in the USA. LA is made in China.
TAD uses genuine YKK zippers, uses webbing for buttons, and has a great warranty/customer support.
LA has all sorts of reviews about the broken zippers and buttons flying off.

I have tried on the LA pants and own the TAD pants, and the TAD pants are worth every penny, especially if you are tired of buying made in China crap that doesn't last.

Well if thats the case, TAD ripped off Crye as I have issued sets of Crye uniforms that have a lot of the same features that the TAD and LAP pants have on them. So again, chicken and egg as far as I am concerned. At the end of the day, its a pair of pants thats been made,design(s) aside. You are correct, there are some differences but they are minor in the grand scheme of things. Lots of blue jeans also look alike and have 5 pockets, etc and some cost more than others, usually just for the name alone. The big difference is I am not going to be pissed if I blow out or stain a $20 pair of pants as opposed to blowing out a $120 pair. I wear my LAP pants for some pretty hard work and I haven't been let down by them yet, shit, I have a pair on right now in fact. I honestly can't say that my North Face, Colombia, 5.11,or other big name pants out perform the LAP pants, I just haven't found the workmanship to be lacking as I had initially expected, which again goes against my "buy quality" items mindset. I also look at it this way, even if something shits the bed on the LAP pants at some point, they are $20 pants and I consider them really disposable clothing, even if I only get one hard use out of them. Fortunately, that hasn't been my experience. If we were talking just about any other thing, then I would agree with you but I think these are a good deal and a good find if you're not hung up on the name brand thing.

 

[Graham]

Tripple Aught Designs

TAD gear is good. SF has some cool Patagonia, too.

Me, I can't get the image out of my head of Rocky and Nomad jousting at Rifles Only. You could cut the tension with a knife.

Did I mention that TAD gear is good stuff?

 

[tman300wm]

Wow! I started a total $hit storm with this thread.

 

[Crispytortilla]

It almost died too. Then I resurrected it accidentally (I'm going to blame this tapatalk app I just started using) last post was in august before that... Woops.

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[swage]

I bought my first pair of TADs like that on 5/06/08. But I do agree with you TAD has gotten more and more expensive every couple of production runs it seems, and turned into a trendy asshole clothing that is collected instead of worn. Not to mention they used to show more military esc pictures on their website but trended away from that as the yuppies started to wear more and more of their shit over the years.

You nailed it Poison. I own a couple thousand dollars worth of their clothing and won't spend another penny with them. Their stuff is top notch but their business model sucks. It's frustrating at best trying to purchase from them.

 

[Genhawk]

Just got a TAD EDC pack, love the thing! I like the design of the suspension MOLLE on the front plus it feels heavy and hopefully will last a while!

 

[superde]

Wow! I started a total $hit storm with this thread.

A long time ago, lol.

 

[Brett_B]

Not to nitpick... But I keep hearing this said over and over again:

"worth every penny"... "Worth it"..... My question is, To whom? What metric or system are you using to determine this? Just pure emotion or post purchase self assurance?

From a value standpoint? Hell to the NO.
Compared to other products on the market? Probally not.
From a pure product standpoint? Maybe.

They are not magical or invincible products. They will wear with use, will tear under hard use and use the same materials as many other products. They may last a little longer, or resist wear a little better, or fit certain body styles better, but how do you quantify that value or price? The only real difference I notice in some of the cheaper and mid level gear and the high end gear is hardware and stiching. Some may use a little bit lighter or cooler material, but most of that stuff is sourced from outside vendors. They all can purchase the same material. Stiching quality and quanity is the big difference. They also tend to use a little better hardware like the poster above quoted (YKK zips , quality buttons/snaps and eyelets), but the value/price ratio is not linear.

Most of what I hear and interpret is people reassuring themself that they made a good decision to purchase expesnive ass gear. People don't like to admit mistakes/faults and sure as hell not on the internet where everyone is an opperator.

I wish people would quantify why they are better and how they compare using data and facts, and not unprovable statements.
Just my humble opinion.

Lots of good points, no doubt for every person the answers are different as to exactly why they feel it’s worth it. We did discuss some of this stuff in the other TAD thread already.

I do a lot of hunting in the mountains of TN (and other areas), and have been doing so for many years. I have worn a lot of different clothing brands there and feel the TAD stuff is worth it for my use. This isn’t a fat man hunt, where you drive your truck up to your tree stand and wait for bambi to walk to your feeder 30 yards away. We hike a lot of miles up and down the mountains, through rough and thorny thicket, with constantly changing weather conditions and activity output levels.

So for me I don't care much for all of the pockets and patches everywhere, I mostly appreciate TAD for the athletic fitment and materials they use, which are in fact quite different than many knockoffs. For example look at the Stealth LT jacket. I don’t see many others jackets on the market using the Schoeller c_change fabric that is also 4-way stretch, has a rugged outer shell that doesn’t snag/rip easily in the thorns, and is seam taped making it 100% waterproof. I don’t think its magic, but I do think it performs better than others I have worn. Basically I have two jackets in one (breathable rugged soft shell and waterproof hard shell), which means I have one less jacket to buy and one less thing to lug in my pack. Others that do use the same material are in the similar price range, and many aren’t even seam taped.

I did have the Condor knockoff version, and it was like wearing a trash bag compared to the Stealth LT. It didn’t breath at all causing me to completely soak my base layers with sweat. It also wasn’t waterproof and soaked through when it rained. The worst of both worlds.

The Ranger jacket uses 10oz weight Polartec WindPro fleece material. It’s extremely warm and is great for when you are sitting completely still for several hours on an evening hunt. The closest thing to it is the North Face Denali jacket that only uses 8oz weight WindPro, it costs the same as the Ranger, and it’s made in China.

The LA pants are another good example. They are using polyester instead of nylon, which is cheaper and not as rip resistant. I agree that the Force 10’s are getting on the pricey side now, any higher and I probably wouldn't buy them. I like them because they fit me really well, are comfortable over a wide range of temps, and I haven’t managed to rip them yet despite lots and lots of abuse. I don’t care if I stain them, I bought them to use them. I have ripped pants from Columbia, Cabelas, and Kuhl in the same terrain that weren’t that much cheaper. Sure you can just replace the cheaper ones several times over, but I don’t exactly carry spare pants in my pack. So spending more on a stronger material is worth it if it keeps me from having a hole in my pants, a popped button, or a busted zipper, until I can make my way back to camp and change them out.

So materials, durability, fitment, customer service, and of course supporting made in the USA products. Every single thing I have from TAD is made in the USA with the exception being the Steath LT which is made in Canada.

 

[bogeybrown]

As a very late-comer to the TAD party, I can only say that I was with a lot of you for a long time in that I would look at TAD's prices and laugh and refuse to "pay for the name". When I got bitch-slapped by a true winter I found the clothes that had been good enough for years just weren't cutting it so I set about my usual hours and hours and hours of research and review-reading.

In the same way we tend to compare all high-end glass against S&B, almost all the reviews of non-TAD gear used the TAD as the benchmark. Pretty much every TAD review said that it was crazy expensive but worth it. After spending days trying to find the closest thing to TAD without buying TAD, I finally just said screw it and put "just the tip in" and ordered the Ranger Jacket to see what made a $200+ fleece so much better. The second I put it on it just "felt right". The fit was as though it was tailored and the quality was evident. I have owned a LOT of fleece going back 20yrs including several of the issued pieces. The difference in materials is HUGE. The 10oz windpro is fucking WARM!!!!!! and blocks wind better than a lot of shell jackets. On the other TAD thread I commented that I have no idea how a fleece can get soaked with wet snow for hours and still not only stay warm, but not transfer the damp inside the garment, but it does.

Based on how happy I was with the Ranger, I bought both of the Stealth jackets. The Stealth doesn't fit me as perfectly as a stand-alone (it's supposed to be looser fitting to accommodate a mid-layer), but with the Ranger underneath it's once again perfect and comfortable. I spent all day yesterday standing in wind-driven snow/rain and a well-below freezing wind chill with the Ranger/Stealth combo and was toasty warm and completely dry, PLUS I didn't even begin to sweat with a couple of performance base layers and the 2 jackets on. EVERY other cold-weather system I personally have tried would have had me sweating in that setup.

I certainly couldn't begin to tell someone what is or is not "worth it" to them. I'm just in a situation where I needed to be sure that what I ordered WORKED because it takes a week or 2 to get to me, and if it doesn't work, I'm looking at a minimum of a month turnaround on a return/exchange. Is there other stuff out there that may be a better "value", probably. It was just "worth it" to me for the piece of mind that I had the right gear for ME.

Now, TAD on Promotive would be even better

 

[swage]

I agree they are worth it. The price isn't an issue. I own two Ranger Hoodies of different color, a Praetorian Jacket, a Shag Master hoodie and six or seven pairs of pants and four or five pairs of shorts. The issue is about being able to purchase the product. My hunting buddy liked my Ranger Hoodie and it took him months to find it in stock. He did sign up for the email newsletters that are sent out on Fridays. Many times he's logged in to find them out of stock already. I personally have been trying to purchase a Shag Master in black this year, as they did not have that color last year, and have logged in only to find them out of stock minutes after receiving an email that they were available. This has happened three times. Then to add to my frustration you see hordes of them available on Ebay for huge mark ups. I have no doubts that there individuals buying their good in quantity to flip them on Ebay. If they are going to make limited quantity on items they should limit the quantity one individual can purchase at a time. Rant over.

 

[anarchist]

I love their gear. They had a Ranger hoodie and a Stealth LT in stock when I ordered last month. They got here in no time. My only gripe is their sizing. I ordered a large in both. According to their customer service people, that was the correct size foe me (5'10", 175). When I got them I found that the Stealth LT was too tight in the shoulders (no, I'm not yoked) and the forearms were very tight when worn over the Ranger. Had to exchange the LT for a XL. Other than that, they are awesome.


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[bogeybrown]

Swage, I agree that finding what you want in stock seems like it's about on par with finding reloading components. I just managed to get lucky, which is a lot of how I ended up with both Stealths. They had the LT I needed in stock, so I did the order, then when I went back to the site the regular Stealth had popped up in-stock as well, so I was able to add it before they shipped. It was literally a matter of one day NO Stealths were in stock to the next day pretty much all of them were.

Anarchist, we must be built pretty differently because I'm 6' 185 and the large fits me in all 3 of the jackets, but again body-type matters.

What was interesting in this thread was the complaints of price, on the Hide of all places. This is the place where guys stand in line to buy an $8k rifle or $4k optic because they perceive it to be THAT much better than an alternative that costs a fraction as much. I'm guilty of owning some very expensive rifle/optic setups that I will likely never be good enough to really get the last bit of performance out of, so as much as it hurts to spend TAD money on gear, my personal comfort is "worth" it to me; and all-in was still cheaper than the lowest-priced optic I'd put on a rifle to get shot every once in a while.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

What was interesting in this thread was the complaints of price, on the Hide of all places. This is the place where guys stand in line to buy an $8k rifle or $4k optic because they perceive it to be THAT much better than an alternative that costs a fraction as much. I'm guilty of owning some very expensive rifle/optic setups that I will likely never be good enough to really get the last bit of performance out of, so as much as it hurts to spend TAD money on gear, my personal comfort is "worth" it to me; and all-in was still cheaper than the lowest-priced optic I'd put on a rifle to get shot every once in a while.

What if you could get a product that for all practical and intense purposes performed as well as the high dollar item? Would the alternative seem more appealing to you? When there is a disernable difference in quality or performance then I agree the cost is justafiable. However, when one cannot be seen, is it still worth spending the extra money?

 

[bogeybrown]

What was interesting in this thread was the complaints of price, on the Hide of all places. This is the place where guys stand in line to buy an $8k rifle or $4k optic because they perceive it to be THAT much better than an alternative that costs a fraction as much. I'm guilty of owning some very expensive rifle/optic setups that I will likely never be good enough to really get the last bit of performance out of, so as much as it hurts to spend TAD money on gear, my personal comfort is "worth" it to me; and all-in was still cheaper than the lowest-priced optic I'd put on a rifle to get shot every once in a while.[/QUOTE

What if you could get a product that for all practical and intense purposes performed as well as the high dollar item? Would the alternative seem more appealing to you? When there is a disernable difference in quality or performance then then I agree the cost is justafiable. However, when one cannot be seen, is it still worth spending the extra money?

I totally agree, that really is the question/point I was raising. If we look at say the Bushnell ERS/XRS or Razor compared to a S&B, how many shooters ACTUALLY NEED the S&B? When you look at the gains compared to the price, does the improved glass REALLY matter? and for how many shooters in how many realistic scenarios? There was a thread going for pages on AI vs Rem 700/custom actions. Whereas I acknowledge that AI is THE shit, how many shooters are going to ACTUALLY see the difference in performance for the price? I am by NO MEANS bashing either S&B, AI, nor the people who buy them. As I said, I have gear that will always be better than me. Somewhere in our minds we decide that the piece of mind from leaving nothing on the table with our gear makes sense to us.

In the case of TAD vs say Condor, there are actual differences in the capabilities of the fabric and the comfort of the apparel. Is it worth 4 times as much, who the hell knows. For me, I bought what I felt to be the best I could get my hands on because I didn't want to find out the hard way that my compromise wasn't worth it. I believe that line of thinking explains why a lot of us on this forum buy "the best" instead of the "compromise" where we can.

I'm really not even arguing the point, because there isn't an answer. It's a decision each of us makes every time we spend money on kit. It just struck me as odd that this particular area of equipment was somehow different to us as a group of very selective consumers.

Much Respect

 

[bornhunter04]

I was a fence sitter for awhile as well. Purchased a Ranger Hoodie LT this past fall and was immediately impressed. Been wearing it ever since almost every day. It's definitly worth the money. The price to performance ratio is on par. I like it so much that i have a Ranger Jacket inbound from TAD. Just happened to find one in stock. The biggest issue is just finding them in your size/color in stock.

 

[UNRL Ghandi]

In the case of TAD vs say Condor, there are actual differences in the capabilities of the fabric and the comfort of the apparel. Is it worth 4 times as much, who the hell knows. For me, I bought what I felt to be the best I could get my hands on because I didn't want to find out the hard way that my compromise wasn't worth it. I believe that line of thinking explains why a lot of us on this forum buy "the best" instead of the "compromise" where we can.

Agreed. I bought a Stealth Hoodie and the Praetorian as a second layer. Cost about $500 for those two hoodies combined. Yes I bought them for the name. Same reason I bought a GAP straight out the gate instead of dicking around with factory .308s. Name says a lot. You can get fanboys that swear up and down and haters that bash because they can't afford it, but ultimately enough reviews by the general public on a brand is enough to convince me. Do I want to spend time trying out all the cheaper alternatives that ultimately don't perform to my standards and end up buying the good shit later? I could have spent $150 on a Northface Hoodie just like my brother has. Functions similar to my Stealth, but isn't as breathable, the material is thinner, and it's water resistance isn't near the Stealth. I could have bought a Columbia fleece for $75 instead of the Praetorian, but I would never have gotten the merino wool properties that help regulate temperature and don't overheat me like fleece does. So after I dropped $225 on a lesser quality layering system I would have been left wanting and gone with TAD in the end and spent $725 instead. As a side note, I bought my wife a TAD Artemis. She doesn't know TAD from any other brand, nor would she care if she did. She has told me multiple times that it is the best sweatshirt she has ever had (no fanboy review there). And it hugs her figure in a way her husband really appreciates.

I wear my Stealth/Praetorian combo all winter long in below zero conditions with no issues. Praetorian keeps me warm and the Stealth keeps the snow off me and the wind chill from biting. Worth $500? It's what it cost and I'm happy with it, so yes.

 

[Jabronie]

do they ever have deals on their stuff, do they have deals on their newsletter or just get what I want now if they have it in stock?

 

[Lowlight]

Their FB Site lists stuff in Stock all the time...

 

[Crispytortilla]

They give out hints on Thursday and restock in Friday.

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[wburke2010]

I have been wanting a ranger hoodie for a while now but never could find one in stock either, but it has been a while since I looked, but they had them in stock today so I ordered one.

 

[Fitz]

15% off select items today for a limited time! With the promo code TADLOVE14


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[bogeybrown]

15% off select items today for a limited time! With the promo code TADLOVE14


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Perfect. I just started a new thread regarding the sale and the increase of the Mil/LE discount and expansion to include vets. I guess we got the same email.

 

[Fitz]

Perfect. I just started a new thread regarding the sale and the increase of the Mil/LE discount and expansion to include vets. I guess we got the same email.

I did and ordered some stuff right away as you know how fast some of that stuff will sell out.


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