Suppressors Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

[mike1128]

I'm looking at the Kimber Pro Raptor II and the Springfield Champion Operator both have 4 inch barrels...having a hard time deciding between the two. I read about in other threads about Kimbers MIM parts, does Springfield use any MIM parts in their pistol? I have a Kimber TLE RL II with no problems with it yet, but the Raptor is quite expensive to have MIM in my opinion Would like yous guys input. Thanks.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

Of course Springfield uses MIM parts. Every non-custom gun builder in the USA uses them. Every car on the road uses MIM parts. If MIM is a problem, then spend the money and replace the internals of your gun when you get it.

I probably wouldn't buy a Series II Kimber. I'd prefer to avoid Springfield Armory as well, as their guns are sloppy. What about an STI, Colt, Smith and Wesson, etc?

If I had to choose, I'd get the Springer only because I'd rather have a sloppy gun than one that didn't run. But I'd prefer to avoid either of them, because neither offers a pistol worth the $$$ spent anymore.

 

[mike1128]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

I guess I will switch my views to Wilson Combat then. Haven't checked out their site until now.

 

[dksd39]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

might consider looking at Dan Wesson - hard to beat for the money

 

[ftchmup]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

Back in the day I ran a Springer Distinguished. NEVER fumbled. I now have a Kimber Ultra CDP, not a hickup. and a Springer 4" LT WT CO 4", I like it and has run perfect so far. Neither will compare to a Wilson or other high end production gun. but I do have a problem with the NEW IIs and their "Custom" guns. MY opinion only.

 

[Conqueror]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I probably wouldn't buy a Series II Kimber. I'd prefer to avoid Springfield Armory as well, as their guns are sloppy. What about an STI, Colt, Smith and Wesson, etc?</div></div>
Meh, the last two Colts I handled (NIB Gold Cups) were sloppier than any springfield I've ever handled. They had sloppy frame/slide fits and burrs that caused sticking points in the slide travel. My TRP Operator, on the other hand, is tight as a drum and runs like a raped ape.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

Springfield loaded LW Champion would do you well, I couldn't justify the extra money for the Champ Operator if it were my money.

I read quite a bit of Springer bashing lately, but most don't have an actual experience with their Springer to convey, only internet hearsay.

Everyone gets so hung up on MIM parts......raise your hand if you've had a 1911's hammer, sear or disconnect break (or is everyone just talking what they hear on the 'net again?)!

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

Downzero-you state you only have 2 full size 1911's in another post, would either be a Springfield?

 

[HOOFER]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

i would still buy a kimber, i have a TLE RL II and its been flawless. i asked the question about the problems people had with kimber and most of it was about MIM parts, but i have never had a problem whatever you buy i think just running rounds through it will tell. people say the parts break and so on but ive seen a limited number of this and at the end bad things always happen eventually. you cant base a companies rep off that i dont think.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

I lean to Springers over Kimbers solely because I'm not a fan of the series II firing pin safeties.

My go to Gov't is a Kimber Custom, and my go to little 1911 is a Springfield Micro.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Downzero-you state you only have 2 full size 1911's in another post, would either be a Springfield? </div></div>

Nope, both are Series I Kimbers, one Stainless, and one Parkerized.

 

[hatidua]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

Me thinks a few posters have never held a Springer put together in the custom shop at SA. To say that Colts are currently better than a Springer indicates a high level of crack consumption.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

Nice.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice. </div></div>

The Parkerized one is my go-to gun; I've had it for nearly 4 years (it was manufactured in 2000). It is a Heritage edition (one of 2000 or something) and has front strap checkering, basic black sights, and ambidextrous thumb safety.

The Stainless one was made in 1998 and I bought it this year from a guy by trading a S&W 568 plus $100. It's just a boring Classic Stainless with a naked front strap, night sights, and a right handed thumb safety.

Both seem to run well, but the parkerized one has a LOT more miles on it.

 

[Ghogs Nightmare]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hatidua</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Me thinks a few posters have never held a Springer put together in the custom shop at SA. To say that Colts are currently better than a Springer indicates a high level of crack consumption. </div></div>

Than someone needs to switch to crack lite!
.
Never had an issue with my CDPII however had series one that had some prbs with.

 

[Outsydlooknin75]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

You know I am so sick of hearing that Springers are loose, and sloppy and not built well. Does anyone realise that the fucking 1911 was built as a fighting pistol. It was designed to be run thru the mud and still function. A 1911 was never meant to be an ultra tight, bullseye pistol. It was meant to be an ultra reliable save your ass cause you are out of ammo and only have your sidearm on you left and you may die weapon. The original design 1911 had shitty sights, and only 7 round mags, but how many guys did it keep alive in the theater of war?

I mean seriously, do you want the worlds finest fighting pistol designed or do you want a fucking target gun that is going to shoot 1/2 inch groups at 25 yards. If you want the later then you really dont want a 1911 you want a 1911 to do that which you CAN have but you have to be willing to give up something to accheive that.

I believe that Larry Vickers said it the best, if you you are going to treat your pistol the way you treat your lawnmower buy a Glock. But people want to buy a tight fitting 1911 and treat it like shit, dont clean it, dont oil it, allow it to get lint all in it, dirt and grit in it but yet still expect it to perform flawlessly. Then when it doesnt perform flawlessly you say "this piece of shit aint worth a fuck and I had to spend half a billion dollars to take it to the smith to get it to run and this is that biggest piece I ever owned." but yet you are the one that wanted the tight pistol and abused it.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

Amen to that.

You can have a combat worthy 1911, or a match worthy 1911, and if you want to spend a lot of money, you can have both.

If you want to spend less money, get one of each.

2nd gen firing pin safeties? I like safety.

If it makes the gun feel different, get used to the new feel.

It's not about what you can't or won't shoot, it's about what you can and do shoot.

A genuine markman takes it all in stride and still hits the mark.

Greg

 

[sapper12b]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

I have 2 Springfield full size one Loaded A1 and one TRP after having some problems with a XD and the way Springfield handled it I will never buy anything BUT Springfield!! and for Springfield being sloppy I have had my A1 since 96 and it shoots better than I can ever shoot

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

I have a couple Kimbers, the desert warrior and the Pro covert. Both of mine have shot over 2000 rds a piece without a hick up. And both of those pistols are scary accurate. They do not have the external extractors so im guessing they are Gen 1 pistols. I have no complaints about kimber but have never shot a Springfield so i cant comment on those

 

[hatidua]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

A number of 1911 makers (including most listed above) competed for the FBI contract a while back. The resulting 1911 is available to the public. Here's some light reading:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_144_24/ai_57886947/

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

Because the FBI chose a brand means little to us on this topic. There are all kinda politics involved in that business and buearacratic red tape and they don't know much about guns anyway in my experience with them.

The best 1911 is a STI.

FActory 1911's aren't worth a shit though once in awhile somebody gets lucky. Search the For Sale sites for a Clark Custom pistol or STI. One or two STI's are under 1k according to the company website. Consider too a 9mm or 38 Super due to less recoil = less flinching and better recovery = faster more accurate shooting and less expensive components. Some tests show hot 9's and the Super penetrate deeper than 45 and penetrations is the goal in protection in my opinion.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hatidua</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A number of 1911 makers (including most listed above) competed for the FBI contract a while back. The resulting 1911 is available to the public. Here's some light reading:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_144_24/ai_57886947/
</div></div>

I am only on the second page, and eliminating some of the top 1911 builders in the country because they can't make Golden Sabres shoot 1.5" at 25 yards is nuts.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

Hmmm, Kimber or Springfield? How about an STI Escort?

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">......raise your hand if you've had a 1911's hammer, sear or disconnect break</div></div>

Forgot slide stops. Did not happen to me, but I saw one SS and one hammer break. In fairness, the hammer did not disable the firearm (was actually a crack).

 

[hatidua]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The best 1911 is a STI.</div></div>

Well, that settles it, doesn't it?! If you'd merely posted as the first responder, we could have avoided all the other clutter!

 

[mike1128]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

I know a 3 inch 1911 would be ideal for carry but do you guys feel its to light of a weapon for that size of a round or would the 4 inch be just fine?

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hatidua</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The best 1911 is a STI.</div></div>

Well, that settles it, doesn't it?! If you'd merely posted as the first responder, we could have avoided all the other clutter!

</div></div>

Looking at the brands mentioned here, an STI would be my second choice after Wilson. Never owned one, but those I've handled are first rate.

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rem_.308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know a 3 inch 1911 would be ideal for carry but do you guys feel its to light of a weapon for that size of a round or would the 4 inch be just fine? </div></div>

I have a three inch that I carry on occasion. Have to practice with it on a regular basis, but it will hold the ten ring at 25 yards if I do my part.

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

Hatidua, we're all merely spouting our opinions based on our individual experiences and those of our friends. I probably should have said STI's are among the better 1911s. Thanks.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

3 inchers are more prone to cycling problems than 4 inchers.
My SA Micro, when it has 50+ rounds through it, needs a bump on the back of the slide to go fully into battery every once in a while (if I can't get to a rifle or eliminate a threat in four or five mags I'm in alot of trouble). When clean I trust it 100%.

A commander length slide on an officer's frame is about the best setup for CCW in my opinion, as its the grip that prints most often. Its shame SA only made their Loaded Compact for a few years, they are really nice (I really want the one I picked up for a frriend while he was in Astan a coule years ago!).

 

[sniper7369]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

The EMP is the only SA 1911 I have personal experience with, but I've been quite impressed with it. It has run 100% since day one, now on about 800+ rounds in it. Even after digesting 200rds of reloads using a 120gr Cast lead TC bullet with Alliant Unique (fairly dirty burning powder) it still runs 100%.
Fit and finish is excellent also on my particular pistol. It's also quite accurate, probably more so than I am. I shot this at 30 yards, off hand, tapping the trigger as fast as I could.

Just my .02 worth what you paid for it.

 

[rrflyer]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

I got to run 100 rounds on a plate rack with a 3inch barreled kimber a few months ago. Functioned great and the 7 round mag fit perfectly into a leatherman pouch on the guys belt for a spare inconspicuous mag.

I believe it had a set up fiberoptic/tritium combo sights that were really awesome. Certainly slower than a full size but the kick was a lot less than I expected and follow up shots were quick and easy especially with those bright sights!

Seemed plenty accurate out to the 20 yards I shot it.

Springfield and Kimber are gonna be pretty much on par.

MIM parts can be a problem. I've known a few guys with broken hammers and cracked or chipped sears. But these were competition 1911's with thousands upon thousands of rounds through them. Something that you're carry gun will probably never see. And I imagine a carry gun would get cleaned and taken apart much more than my competition STI's which are averaging about 1500 rounds or more between cleaning.

I'm a big fan of STI's customer service. All there parts are lifetime warrantied. A simple phone call will have the replacement part in the mail to you that day.

The kimber CDP Pro II is one of the nicest pointing 1911's i've ever held though. Might be worth checking.

 

[steve123]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

Are you guys refering to STI 2011's or STI 1911 single stacks.Does STI make a 4 inch?

STI 2011's are super reliable.I've owned three and still have one.I could count the number of jams I've had on one hand and that's with putting 40,000 rounds down the barrels of them.Even those jams were from an occasional screwed up reload,like primers being backwards,reloading a piece of brass that had a big bulge on the bottom,etc.

Too bad 2011's are so darn big.

Steve

 

[rrflyer]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

sti ranger and ranger II

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you guys refering to STI 2011's or STI 1911 single stacks.Does STI make a 4 inch?</div></div>

As I recall, STI makes a 3.9 inch.

 

[steve123]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

I like how the frame is cut high right under the trigger guard.

Thanks for the info.

Steve

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Trying to decide, Kimber or Springfield 4 inch

I am referring to both single and double stack when I say STI are among the best 1911's.
In my experience, whether a 1911 is single or double stack may be determined by the size of the shooter's hand; Shaquille O'Neal would probably prefer a double stack due to its larger grip size which would probably fit his huge hands better than a single stack. Also, the additional weight a full double stack mag of .45 will weigh appreciably more; (14 rds v. 7). Because of the size of my shooting hand, unless I want to compete against others using double stacks I feel the disadvantage of a grip that is too large and might impair good handling, coupled with the extra weight that might impair quick handling, outweighs the advantages, if any, of twice as many rds in the mag, for my purposes, although a special operator or agent of sorts may be better-serviced by a double stack in the interest of not wagging an extra mag with a single and assaulting or defending multiple agressors; hopefully with 14+-rds I might smoke em all, or get an opportunity to run like hell. I imagine doubles for serious business have an undeniable comfort factor.