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Hunting & Fishing unpredictable smk's

S

SilencercoJames

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May 30, 2008
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kearns, ut, 84118
#1
Well I decided to go out and test the expansion of the smk's on some prairie dogs this weekend.


This one 256yds. 168 gr smk @2750mv
greenburrito1.jpg

Large exit

Same bullet, same load, same distance.
smallhole1.jpg

1/2" exit

Needles to say these bullets did not expand the same. They were hit in similar places, both center of mass, and expanded totally differently.

Just thought I would share the results that I found. I know some might not say that this is enough proof to discount them as hunting bullets, and that is not what I am trying to prove, I merely wanted to share some of the results I found yesterday.
 
#4
Re: unpredictable smk's

Did one hit a bone like a shoulder or spinal column in a way that it had to actually traverse an inch or so of hard tissue?

The SMK isn't a hunting bullet, I don't know why people try to use it as one. This case it's not really a difference, you can kill those things with practically any bullet on the market, but to others that might consider using it on something like whitetail or elk... Why?
 
#5
Re: unpredictable smk's

That is the same conclusion I came too after seeing these results. Yes the pdog is dead but if it were a deer maybe it would just be wounded. I read all of the recent threads about it being used for hunting and thought I would share these pics. The one with the small hole actually did hit the spine on the way out. But on the way in it was a gut shot just like the other one. And to answer the question about how far they traveled. The one blown up only traveled vertically. The other one flopped around a little and that is why I will not use these for hunting anymore. I guess the more I think about the more I am forming an opinion on the matter. These are NOT hunting bullets.
 
#9
Re: unpredictable smk's

I am only saying that the outcome of what happens to the bullet upon impact was so different that I would not count on it as a hunting round. Maybe the bullet will explode upon impact, as in pic 1. Maybe the bullet will not expand at all, as in pic 2. Maybe who the hell cares and shoot what ever the hell you want. But in this one example I have two very different outcomes.

Is random expansion a characteristic of all bullets. Do vmax bullets sometimes not expand at close range?

Do hunting bullets(corelokt, amax, ect.)sometimes detonate upon impact providing no penetration?
 
#10
Re: unpredictable smk's

I would never use a SMK on anything but do you seriously think that a P-dog has enough mass to cause a SMk in 30 caliber to do anything? Maybe with a 52 gr SMK in a 22 centerfire you would see explosive performance but a .30 cal hunting bullet or match bullet isn't going to do anything but go through a Prarie dog. If you got any type of expansion it was do to the bones that were shattered blowing up the rest of the critter. That's what i think anyway... Jeff
 
#13
Re: unpredictable smk's

Keep the SMK's for Paper or longer range steel. Berger Match/Hunting VLD's for bigger game like deer hogs for best of both worlds, or Amax if you're looking for Match and Hunting. For explosive PD fun, stick to VMAX, TNT or the like.
 
#15
Re: unpredictable smk's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MuleHunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Berger and smk's use the same j4 jacket. </div></div>

Since when does Sierra use J4s?
 
#16
Re: unpredictable smk's

Sierra manufactures the j4 and uses them in the matchking. Berger and jlk uses the j4 jacket also. According to brian litz the bullets should have similar terminal ballistics due to them all using the j4 jacket. Berger has said that they thin the jacket at the tip to help expansion. The bullet is designed to penetrate 2-3" then dump all its energy through rapid expansion and hydrostatic shock. Personnally I feel that this gives the berger an edge. I hunt with both the smk and berger. They both make a mess in the chest cavity.
 
#17
Re: unpredictable smk's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .308er</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am only saying that the outcome of what happens to the bullet upon impact was so different that I would not count on it as a hunting round. Maybe the bullet will explode upon impact, as in pic 1. Maybe the bullet will not expand at all, as in pic 2. Maybe who the hell cares and shoot what ever the hell you want. But in this one example I have two very different outcomes.

Is random expansion a characteristic of all bullets. Do vmax bullets sometimes not expand at close range?

Do hunting bullets(corelokt, amax, ect.)sometimes detonate upon impact providing no penetration?


</div></div>

I am not advocating using match bullets for hunting, I'll leave that to the people pulling the trigger. I like to shoot 190 Berger VLD's from my .300 WSM, but when I first built it I was going to East Texas to do a little deer hunting and picked up some 155 grain Amax's. I ended up just taking the .243 with me because I didn't feel like I had enough data to make some shots that might present themself. Well the other day I got home and dropped some reloads with the Amax's and decided to take them out to go smoke some prairie dogs and coyotes.

Now keep in mind I didn't have any dope or chronograph these rounds. I see a prairie dog out there at 362 yards (LRF), read the wind and about what I would need to get there. Then I thought about my rifle being zero'ed with my 190 VLD's and just kind of took a S.W.A.G. at what the difference between the velocities and bullet weights would be. I decided that for the shot, it would pretty much be a dead on around 300, and just held for wind. I made a lucky cold bore shot, and I was quite surprised at how violently the Amax expanded. As I said, I don't know exactly how fast the bullet was moving, but I'm gonna guess over 3,300 fps and wouldn't be surprised if it's over 3,400 fps. It picked him up about 3 or 4 feet in the air and threw him back another 3 feet.

04-27-09_1556.jpg


After seeing that, I don't know that I'd really want to use that bullet for a deer. I think I'll just stick to my 180 accubonds that I have been using. I just figured that I might try something a little lighter for the "midget deer" back east, lol. Anyway, just something to pick ya'lls brains with.
 
#19
Re: unpredictable smk's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The SMK isn't a hunting bullet, I don't know why people try to use it as one. </div></div>

Because it works, duh...The last two deer I've shot at died at the hands of a 115 grain .277 SMK out of a 6.8spc cartridge

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .308er</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is the same conclusion I came too after seeing these results. Yes the pdog is dead but if it were a deer maybe it would just be wounded.

;;
;;;
;;;These are NOT hunting bullets. </div></div>


While not designed for hunting, they will work effectively. Both deer I've shot with these just flopped after impact. I don't, however, recommend using these bullets at closer range(less than 100 yards) due to fragmentation. At longer distance however they pass through and poke nice holes
 
#20
Re: unpredictable smk's

I have used smk's on Coyote,deer,elk,rock chucks,pdogs and badgers. They were either 220smk from a 300wm or a 140 smk from a 6.5-284. They all got the job done BUT they are VERY inconsistent. Some were clean and some not so much. It is for SURE not the go to bullet.
 
#21
Re: unpredictable smk's

I called sierra at my break time. J4 used to be an independant bullet jacket maker that Berger purchased jackets from. Berger has taken over producing the j4 jacket and JLK also uses the j4 jacket hence these two bullets are what Litz said would have similar terminal ballistics. Sierra makes their own jacket for the matchking and it is thicker than the j4. My appologies for screwing up the facts.
 
#22
Re: unpredictable smk's

I've read that Doc....but my first experience was a quartering toward shot at 90 yds. Under the shoulder blade through the guts out the opposite groin through the thigh. Looked like I was shooting paper on entry, groin exit, entry, and exit out of the thigh, no expansion.

Tried again at 125yds broadside just behind the shoulder a few weeks later during bonus doe days. Went back with a dog since the blood trail dried up. Only deer I've ever lost in 30 years of hunting.

I'll stick with hunting bullets for hunting and match bullets for paper and steel.
 
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