*UPDATE - RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

[ReaperDriver]

I just purchased an RCBS Chargemaster 1500 combo about 2 weeks ago and used it a grand total of 2 times. Anyway, on the 3rd use - I plugged it in, tried to calibrate it and the readings were all over the scale. It would never calibrate correctly and the pan was reading up to 11 grains off from my previous two times before. And even when it would go through the calibration process without an error - the weights would fluctuate and slowly climb within a min or so and keep climbing a tenth about every few sec.

The previous two times I used it - I loaded about 100 rounds each session and it worked flawlessly. I let it auto dump charges and my Std Devs were in the single digits for >90% of the rounds - so it was working well before.

It was maybe 3 days between the last session and the only thing I can think I did differently is I left it in the garage UNPLUGGED rather than take it in the house like the pervious two times. The garage temps were probably peaking around 90-95F - but given that it was not even plugged in (the power cord was unplugged from the wall) - I can't see how the heat could fry the electronics. I tried it on three different power outlets in teh garage and inside the house. I even let it sit at room temp inside and tried to recal in the a.m. but it was still out to lunch.

I was able to return it and exchange it for a new one - and the new one seems to work fine in the same outlets. But it worries me that the other one died so quickly. Anyone ever see this problem? Do you think the high garage temps had anything to do with it going Tango Uniform?

 

[427Cobra]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

I like to use mine in a room with the ceiling fan off, air vent closed, door closed, and I let it warm up for a hour before use, it's also plugged in to a surge protector, when I loaded in the garage I had similar problems.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like to use mine in a room with the ceiling fan off, air vent closed, door closed, and I let it warm up for a hour before use, it's also plugged in to a surge protector, when I loaded in the garage I had similar problems. </div></div>
Do you use just a surge protector power strip or a full on voltage regulator/noise regulator? Is there any utility in using an UPS or is that overkill?

 

[jasonk]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

UPS is not as important as a true line conditioner.

Also, any plasma tv's nearby or on the same circuit, cordless telephones, cell phones, etc?

 

[Jrb572]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

I need to recheck mine. Everybody talks about phones , tvs, and lights messing with there's. I have all three very close to mine. Not one problem. But I guess I should recheck with my manual scale.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">UPS is not as important as a true line conditioner.

Also, any plasma tv's nearby or on the same circuit, cordless telephones, cell phones, etc? </div></div>
Nope - same circuit in the garage as before. Nothing else was plugged in different than the 1st time.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

Unfortunately, I don't have another scale to measure my accuracy against - but before the RCBS took a dump.... I loaded a bunch of rounds that I ended up having to pull the bullets because the cases wouldn't chamber. So for S&Gs, I dumped a few back on the scale to see if it at least weighed out what I measured out a few days before and it was perfect to the 0.0 grain. So at least it was consistant if not accurate.

ETA: Mmmmmm.... line conditioner. I'm on my way to the store as we speak so this doesn't happen again.

 

[Sig685]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrb572</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I need to recheck mine. Everybody talks about phones , tvs, and lights messing with there's. I have all three very close to mine. Not one problem. But I guess I should recheck with my manual scale. </div></div>

Leave your cellphone in the next room. That's the nasty one.

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

The cell phone is the worst thing to keep near it. It will mess it up. Also, keep the CM on all the time. If that's not an option, turn it on several hours before you load. It will vary if not.

 

[HBARLeatherneck]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

i have never had 1 problem with mine. allways has measured true against another scale.

 

[Jrb572]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

Always have my Iphone on me too. Never a problem. Sometimes its laying a foot tops away on the countertop. But now I better check before I brag to much.

 

[300sniper]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

about leaving the chargemaster turned on:

i was about to load a bunch of ammo so i filled the hopper with powder. some friends called and asked if i wanted to go camping that weekend. i decided to go camping instead of loading ammo. i leave my chargemaster turned all the time and didn't think anything of it this time.

i came home after the weekend to hear a whining noise when i walked into the house. after a quick investigation i found the noise to be my chargemaster running full speed and the once full hopper had dispensed all over my scale, bench and floor. it looked like my power had gone off sometime during the weekend since my clocks were all flashing. i have no idea why this would cause the chargemaster to dispense nonstop when it came back on though. i even have it plugged into an expensive monster-cable surge protector/filter.

after some cleaning and shaking it to get the powder granules out of every crevice in the scale, it seems to be working ok again.

 

[Winchester 69]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

The failure you experienced is known as <span style="font-style: italic">infant mortality</span>, and it's common to electronics. Fine electronic devices are put through a burn-in routine of cycling the device on and off, and extended usage prior to sale. It is not uncommon for some component to fail, and that is what happened in your first unit.

 

[999delta]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

Unfortunately, I don't have another scale to measure my accuracy against - but before the RCBS took a dump.... I loaded a bunch of rounds that I ended up having to pull the bullets because the cases wouldn't chamber. So for S&Gs, I dumped a few back on the scale to see if it at least weighed out what I measured out a few days before and it was perfect to the 0.0 grain. So at least it was consistant if not accurate.




I have a penny with some scotch tape rapped around it and the weight wrote on it. This, I use it as a check weight before starting and sometimes during loading. I have another scale that I checked it on when it was new. But, this is a lot faster and gives you confidence that your within a 1/10 of a grain from where you were a year ago. No madder what the weather or temp is when your loading.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON!!!!! So I exchanged my Chargemaster for a new one and all was well for my next reloading session yesterday. Went to the range today and shot those rounds and then came back this afternoon to reload for tomorrow and the RCBS scale was fucked up again!!!

After the 1st time, I bought a surge protector that supposedly has a noise attentuation feature to condition the power. Its not a true $100+ line conditioner - but still.

So I plug it in today and it would not calibrate - kept getting ERROR for the 1st ten tries. The it would finally go through the Calibration sequence but the numbers were out to lunch again. When removing the check weights - it would never return to zero like it did before and even after hitting the zero button with the pan back on, everytime you remove the pan - it would not return to zero and the numbers were always different.

I turned off the florescent lights in the garage, I put my cell phone in the kitchen, I moved the scale all over the house to see if anything changed (it didn't), I let it sit for 45 min to warmup - nothing fixed it. I can maybe see the 1st one being bad as an anomoly. But the 2nd unit in 3 days going bad - there is something seriously wrong and I can't figure it out. Its not like I don't know how to work the scale, because I got it to calibrate just fine the 1st several times and threw powder with zero issues. It hasn't been dropped, bumped, etc. In fact I went out of my way to be extra careful this 2nd time.

WTF am I doing wrong? I'm going to call RCBS in the morning - but its fucked up another range trip on a week I took off from work specifically so I could do this load development shooting before an upcoming match. If I can't get this resolved - the unit is going back to RCBS in tiny pieces after I take my hammer to it.

I'm totally Disgusted!!!!

 

[Jrb572]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

I am not saying this is your fix. But check it with a level. When mines not level it does some weird stuff.

 

[Trapshooter12]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

Reaper Are you calibrating it per the step by step instructions?
Like Jrb suggested are all of your feet down on it so that it can't wobble any.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trapshooter12</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Reaper Are you calibrating it per the step by step instructions?
Like Jrb suggested are all of your feet down on it so that it can't wobble any. </div></div>
Yes and yes. There is no wobble - the bench is fairly close to being dead level. I even tried it on my kitchen granite countertop.

And I've meticulously followed the instructions. Like I said, it worked fine the 1st several times I calibrated it and I'm not changing anything I'm doing.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unfortunately, I don't have another scale to measure my accuracy against - but before the RCBS took a dump.... I loaded a bunch of rounds that I ended up having to pull the bullets because the cases wouldn't chamber. So for S&Gs, I dumped a few back on the scale to see if it at least weighed out what I measured out a few days before and it was perfect to the 0.0 grain. So at least it was consistant if not accurate.

ETA: Mmmmmm.... line conditioner. I'm on my way to the store as we speak so this doesn't happen again. </div></div>

You can't buy them at retail. Have to order on line. Nothing in the stores I know of is a true line conditioner that reconstructs the wave correctly as well as provides true line isolation.

I have a Tripp Lite LC1200.

The easier and cheaper alternative is to just cut the power supply off the end of the cord, split the two wires, and run them to a 12V lawn tractor battery. That is true power isolation and no possibly of any sort of AC issues. This does not help with EMI from other sources than power though, so you still gotta watch where you use it.

 

[4Rail_Gunner]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

I would call RCBS and check with them on what they could do to help. They may have your solution or exchange with you.

1-800-533-5000

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

piss on the electronic stuff.....balance beam is were its at...

 

[7mmRM]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

 

[Jrb572]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

Ah things I can only dream of at this time. But it doesn't matter if it wobbles. Level is the key check it with a torpedo level. I changed powder out on mine and put it in a different spot on the bench. Gave weird eratic readings. So I keep a level handy when I start I check it.

 

[Shady_Jay]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

You don't have a dead ex-wife do you? Because I do. Sometime my equipment acts really squirrelly and know it is her messing with me.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NineHotel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The easier and cheaper alternative is to just cut the power supply off the end of the cord, split the two wires, and run them to a 12V lawn tractor battery. That is true power isolation and no possibly of any sort of AC issues. This does not help with EMI from other sources than power though, so you still gotta watch where you use it. </div></div>

Well, RCBS is overnighting me a new one - so hopefully 3rd time is a charm.

I have a question though.... short of getting a true line conditioner or connecting to a 12V battery: If I have it plugged into an UPS and then unplugged the UPS and made it run on battery power - would that accomplish the same thing?

 

[4Rail_Gunner]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

sounds like it would be the same as running it straight off a battery.

You would need an Oscilloscope to be 100% certain.

 

[former naval person]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

A good sized uninterruptable power supply is just that...a battery with an inverter. (You can open it up and connect to the battery direct thereby bypassing the inverter and its electronics and negating using the wall wart that comes with the unit if you wish. Get a plug and wire at Radio shack and solder the wires to the battery terminals inside of the UPS and then plug the sucker in.) Problem with unplugging the UPS and using your wall wart is that: 1. it will beep at you forever, and 2, The inverter inside the box doesn't produce a true sine wave...usually a stepped square wave which might cause interference with the electronics of the scale...which 4Rail is referencing. I, however, use an inexpensive ($45.00) computer type UPS with the wall wart plugged into it and have had ZERO problems. I leave the scale and UPS plugged in and turned on all the time. Your unit may differ...seems to have done so! JMHO

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

The quality of the rectifier is still in question on a low end UPS. Yes it would be isolated from the rest of your electrical system.

 

[Tangodown911]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

You could also have a static electricity problem. I know that when ever mine starts walking and acting an ass, I wipe the entire machine down lightly with a bounty sheet and it returns to normal. You may want to look at that aspect. 11.0 grains is a lot for static elec. however.

I consider the bounty sheets a sort of maintanance thing. That way it doesn't get crazy and I don't want to break it all to hell.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tangodown911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You could also have a static electricity problem. I know that when ever mine starts walking and acting an ass, I wipe the entire machine down lightly with a bounty sheet and it returns to normal. You may want to look at that aspect. 11.0 grains is a lot for static elec. however.

I consider the bounty sheets a sort of maintanance thing. That way it doesn't get crazy and I don't want to break it all to hell. </div></div>

I've even tried the dryer sheet thing on the 1st unit that died. Unfortunately, that had no effect. Both that died, were getting errors in the 10-15 grain range. The 2nd one that just died two days ago simply won't calibrate anymore. It gets to the Cal 50g stage and just says "ERROR" and won't go any further.

I'm going to try a different plug in my garage with the UPS connected - I just can't figure out WTH is causing two units in a row within days to go Tango Uniform. Like I said, one is an anomoly - two in a row is something else.

Short of having an electrican come out and test all the outlets - is there anything I can do to prevent frying another scale? I have a decent UPS now, so hopefully that will filter any weird spikes. Does anyone think that there might be something screwey with the wall sockets in the garage? I'd rather not do this, but I can always just bring the scale in the kitchen and load the powder all at once and then take the block of loaded brass out to the garage to seat the bullets. I like doing both steps together - i.e. throw the powder then seat the bullet and repeat. But if keeping the scale out of the garage prevents it from frying the electronics again, I'll try it.

One last thing.... the plug in the garage I've been using is right eblow the circuit breaker box for the entire house. The CB box is right above the workbench. Is there any chance that I'm getting too much EMI or something by being too close to that CB box?

I'm at my wits end here.....

 

[former naval person]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

Possibly the answer lies in the last question. Radio frequency waves love to travel over copper wires. You could have common mode radio frequency interference generated in other parts of your house...think TV, Microwave, TV, Computer, other wall warts, the convenient touch control lamps...that loads RF into your house wiring and is trying to get to ground via the little green ground wires in the sets which end in wires which run from your supply box to ground via a medium size wire...about #2 is typical. Anyway, common mode radio frequency interference could be propagating into your scale electronics. Good Question! You may have made the diagnosis. JMHO

 

[spot69221]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?


Make sure the outlet (120V) is grounded correctly. Sometimes it can be falsely grounded by jumping Neutral (white wire) to Earth ground (green or bare wire missing on green colored screw). You can have voltage that floats on the neutral that way and will surely cause the strangest problems. (If you check things out from the panel and the receptacle, save the screwdriver/pliers by turning the breaker off and double check with a meter

)

Also my Chargemaster combo has worked just fine for 1.5 yrs so far. It sets about 12 inches from my computer LCD, Giraud case trimmer, but I always set my cell on the other side of the room. I have a set of check weights and every once in a while I check against the beam scale.

 

[Trapshooter12]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

What about trying it in another outlet in the house to see if you have the same issues. If not then you have a staring point.

 

[4Rail_Gunner]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

Any Updates?

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 4Rail_Gunner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any Updates?
</div></div>
Yes. I called RCBS C/S and after a lengthy wait, I was helped by a VERY friendly lady in tech support. She was not able to do anything for me over the phone - she had me run through the calibration process I guess to make sure I understood how to do it right and I can't blame her as I'm sure they get some people who can't read directions. But when it became obvious that I was doing it correctly and it was still failing AND this was the 2nd unit to die - she took care of me. This was last Thursday and I told her that I really needed something for a shoot I was doing on Sat a.m. So she had her guys pull a unit off the shelf in their factory, test it before sending it out and then they overnighted me that tested new one. I had it on my doorstep by 0930 the next morning in time to load up for the next day. Whatever they did worked, they must have given me their "super-secret special stash" of good scales because this thing has been 100% perfect so far. It threw 60 charges dead-nuts on to the grain with zero overs or unders.

The only three things I did differently this time was 1) I isolated it on its own bench so I wasn't bumping the workbench as I was seating bullets etc, 2) I now have it on an UPS instead of just a surge protector but its running in the same socket as before when the previous two had trouble and 3) I left it in the garage after my reloading session rather than bringing it inside when I was done. Even though I was VERY careful with it before, I just didn't want to move it anymore than I needed to.

I only did that one session with it last Friday and haven't used it since. But out of curiosity - I just walked out and turned it on and weighed both the supplied check weight and one I made myself. I took someone's excellent advice and weighed a penny with a piece of tape on it with the weight written on it right after I 1st got the unit. I threw the penny on the scale without even calibrating it and it was exactly the correct weight from last week.

BL: I'm really happy with RCBS's customer service. Keeping fingers and toes crossed that 3rd times a charm.....

 

[former naval person]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

Leave it turned on. Doesn't use much juice, won't wear out the diodes, etc., and keeps it warm and dry. Works for me.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Leave it turned on. Doesn't use much juice, won't wear out the diodes, etc., and keeps it warm and dry. Works for me. </div></div>
The only thing I'm worried about here in NV is the temps in the garage can get over 100F easily half the year and I don't want to fry anything. Electronics, in my experience don't do well in the heat.

ETA: And "dry" is not much of a concern here

 

[spot69221]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

Good to hear!

 

[USMCj]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

+1 for keeping it on. I get more consistent trows when I leave mine always on.

 

[Jrb572]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

Well as usual I spoke to soon. My chargemaster just quit on me. I never sent in the warrenty card. Am I screwed? It threw one charge then started the next and shut off. I tried different outlets all over the house. No luck.

 

[Butch B]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

jrb572 mine did the same thing, I was going to throw it awaya and was walking to the trash can and tripped, I dropped the scale and it hit the concrete hard. I thought I might as well try and see if it will power up and sure as shit it powered back up ...LOL. Has worked great ever since.

 

[Jrb572]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

Just got back from Cabelas. Gave them my card number they looked it up and replaced it for me. Its been several months since the purchase. Didn't see that working out. But Im back up and running.

 

[Powerlock25]

Re: *UPDATE - RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

ordered one to put under the Christmas tree. I pulled it out a couple weeks ago- worked fine then. After going through 50rds today - it started having the exact same problem you had Reaper.

Im gonna call Midsouth tomorrow AM.....

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: *UPDATE - RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

You might want to go directly to RCBS. I did and they replaced it the next day.

I hope whatever the problem is they fixed, because this appears to not be an isolated problem. Probably typical chinese QC.....

 

[Dsparil]

Re: *UPDATE - RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

had same problem with scale. had scale for about a year but they told me to fuck off with the problem. said it'd cost $40 to replace even though I never even used the damn thing. Was waiting for other reloading equipment and money was tight at the time. Prolly gonna send it back anyhow and get it fixed. Cheaper than buying a new one. I think I read somewhere that there was a shipment from Excell(in China) that had bad circuit boards and had a tendency to go hoo-hah.

 

[Sharp Shooter]

Re: *UPDATE - RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

Make sure your cell phone is away from the scale. Depending on which type you have it will effect your scale. Thats why they make everyone shut all electronic devices off when you fly on an air plane.

 

[KeithR41]

Re: *UPDATE - RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

Static electricity. Same thing happened to mine. Once I take off the clear shield / cover it reads perfectly every time. I tried wiping it down with a static dryer cloth per RCBS instructions but that didn't really help. Take off the cover and see if it works.

KeithR41

 

[lratclif]

Re: *UPDATE - RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

I may be a bit late to the party here but I just had the same issue with my chargemaster as the original post. What fixed mine was making sure the feet on the bottom were not too tight, and then filing out the holes on the metal connectors that connect the scale and the powder dispenser. Mine did not line up perfectly and caused the scale to get bound up and would not calibrate and when I put a weight on it would steadily climb. Hope this helps.

 

[ratassassin]

Re: *UPDATE - RCBS Chargemaster problem - anyone else?

Same here. I had the same problem with my Chargemaster not holding zero and floating all over the place even after calibration. It had worked fine before I adjusted the feet on the center of the unit. So I fiddled with those feet and I guess I got them dialed right so they didn't bind up the brackets causing torque on the body of the unit. The unit held zero and thrown accurate charges ever since over the last 500 rounds. I'm never touching those feet again!

I remember reading a post I think on MidwayUSA.com where someone wrote that he drilled out the holes in the brackets so they were a bit oversized and wouldn't bind up against the threads for the feet. I didn't drill my brackets out but would have if the feet adjustment hadn't cured the problem.

And, yes, having your Chargemaster on the same bench that you're using to size your brass or seat your bullets is going to subject it to numerous relatively violent bumps and jolts that the sensitive scale may not be able to tolerate. After I've charged all my brass for that session, I move the Chargemaster off my loading bench to protect it from the jolts from bullet seating.