Thinking..........for fun about building an urban ak SPR. I know the ak isn't what you would call acurate. So for my purpose i'm thinking like pie plates at 200. I know it will do that. Thoughts.......(not on concept but on exicution).
Urban Ak Sniper 150-200 yard engagment range
- Thread starter Climate17
- Start date
Re: Urban Ak Sniper 150-200 yard engagment range
AKs are normally in the 2-4MOA range. So at 200 yards to hit a 8" pie plate is right at 4MOA. You shouldn't have to build one. With match ammo from Hornady, along with a decent shooter, one should be able to hit a 8" plate at 200 with a off the shelf quality AK like Arsenal, MAK90, etc.
AKs are normally in the 2-4MOA range. So at 200 yards to hit a 8" pie plate is right at 4MOA. You shouldn't have to build one. With match ammo from Hornady, along with a decent shooter, one should be able to hit a 8" plate at 200 with a off the shelf quality AK like Arsenal, MAK90, etc.
Re: Urban Ak Sniper 150-200 yard engagment range
I see the AK as an ideal weapons system for its original purpose, combat fire-and-maneuver assault and CQB. But I also think its design is not well suited to precision accuracy. I am particularly doubtful of the benefits of a two-piece stock.
For something maybe more suitible, I'm thinking more in terms of the (Simonov) SKS platform. I used an SKS in NRA National Match to obtain the marksmanship practice evidence required to order my DCM Garand in the early 1990's.
Let's not be facetious and suggest there's such a thing as an SKS Sniper platform.
But the single piece stock had potential for bedding in a manner similar to the methods used for accurizing a Garand. I actually performed the exercise as a practice experiment before bedding my Garand. The exercise was surprisingly successful. At distances out to an absolute max of about 300yd, the SKS can be made to shoot at least into the same ballpark as the Garand; enough so that doing load development had genuine potential.
Later, a Choate Dragunov-style stock was mounted, and again accuracy was much better than the original system.
Over this Winter, this setup has be upgraded(?) with a B-Square gas tube scout-style scope mount and a Tasco Dot scope. No attempt is being undertaken to develop the rifle into a precision accurate rifle, but I think it may be possible to recreate Garand-level accuracy in the short distance (to 300yd) environment. The gas tube mount is actually well designed, using the clamping action to rigidize the relationship between barrel and gas tube.
Come Spring, this project will join a few others. Because of the lower expectations, the project could turn out to be some genuine fun. My hopes are to be able to get consistent hits on 8"-10" steel at around 250yd, using off-the-shelf ComBloc/TulAmmo steel case 124gr FMJ ammo. Not sniper level accuracy, but not too bad, either. It's not an AK, and is not provided with any other means for reloading beyond 10rd strippers; but for urban tasking, it could have some potential.
One of the other project is an effort to find better (sorta-precision?) accuracy from a Savage 7.62x39 (.308" diameter bore) Scout Rifle. In this application, conventional scope mounting, relatively serious optics, commercial ammo testing and handloading will be applied in search of a sub-MOA accuracy goal.
Greg
I see the AK as an ideal weapons system for its original purpose, combat fire-and-maneuver assault and CQB. But I also think its design is not well suited to precision accuracy. I am particularly doubtful of the benefits of a two-piece stock.
For something maybe more suitible, I'm thinking more in terms of the (Simonov) SKS platform. I used an SKS in NRA National Match to obtain the marksmanship practice evidence required to order my DCM Garand in the early 1990's.
Let's not be facetious and suggest there's such a thing as an SKS Sniper platform.
But the single piece stock had potential for bedding in a manner similar to the methods used for accurizing a Garand. I actually performed the exercise as a practice experiment before bedding my Garand. The exercise was surprisingly successful. At distances out to an absolute max of about 300yd, the SKS can be made to shoot at least into the same ballpark as the Garand; enough so that doing load development had genuine potential.
Later, a Choate Dragunov-style stock was mounted, and again accuracy was much better than the original system.
Over this Winter, this setup has be upgraded(?) with a B-Square gas tube scout-style scope mount and a Tasco Dot scope. No attempt is being undertaken to develop the rifle into a precision accurate rifle, but I think it may be possible to recreate Garand-level accuracy in the short distance (to 300yd) environment. The gas tube mount is actually well designed, using the clamping action to rigidize the relationship between barrel and gas tube.
Come Spring, this project will join a few others. Because of the lower expectations, the project could turn out to be some genuine fun. My hopes are to be able to get consistent hits on 8"-10" steel at around 250yd, using off-the-shelf ComBloc/TulAmmo steel case 124gr FMJ ammo. Not sniper level accuracy, but not too bad, either. It's not an AK, and is not provided with any other means for reloading beyond 10rd strippers; but for urban tasking, it could have some potential.
One of the other project is an effort to find better (sorta-precision?) accuracy from a Savage 7.62x39 (.308" diameter bore) Scout Rifle. In this application, conventional scope mounting, relatively serious optics, commercial ammo testing and handloading will be applied in search of a sub-MOA accuracy goal.
Greg
Re: Urban Ak Sniper 150-200 yard engagment range
200 yard pie plates are easy with a good shooter and good ammo.
But, check out Jim Fuller at Rifle Dynamics.
200 yard pie plates are easy with a good shooter and good ammo.
But, check out Jim Fuller at Rifle Dynamics.
Re: Urban Ak Sniper 150-200 yard engagment range
My thinking is that 7.62x39 is very cheap. I was thinking of using a milled reciever and a folding stock. Caa makes a neat attacment that allows you to use ar style stocks. just spit balling. the other way i was looking at was to shorten up a dragonov and do some scope converting (i'm left handed). would be nice to stretch it out a little farther than 200 yards. folding stock and shorter barrel on dragonov would be nice.
My thinking is that 7.62x39 is very cheap. I was thinking of using a milled reciever and a folding stock. Caa makes a neat attacment that allows you to use ar style stocks. just spit balling. the other way i was looking at was to shorten up a dragonov and do some scope converting (i'm left handed). would be nice to stretch it out a little farther than 200 yards. folding stock and shorter barrel on dragonov would be nice.
Re: Urban Ak Sniper 150-200 yard engagment range
Mike Friend at The firing line in Oklahoma builds one heck of an AK. He knows his stuff.
http://www.firinglineoklahoma.com/
Mike Friend at The firing line in Oklahoma builds one heck of an AK. He knows his stuff.
http://www.firinglineoklahoma.com/
Re: Urban Ak Sniper 150-200 yard engagment range
Didn't the Iraqis field a Ak based sniper rifle? Its not really a sniper rifle in the Western sense, more like a designated marksman rifle, better sights and moderate mods to increase hit potential. I believe it had a longer barrel, not sure if the receiver was milled or not, and it had a low power optic. I don't think any AK folding stocks provide solid enough lock up or good enough cheekweld to consider. However for pie plates at two hundred, just buy the AK of your choosing an optic mount, and slap the reddot or 1-4 of your choosing on there, or challenge yourself and do it with the irons.
Didn't the Iraqis field a Ak based sniper rifle? Its not really a sniper rifle in the Western sense, more like a designated marksman rifle, better sights and moderate mods to increase hit potential. I believe it had a longer barrel, not sure if the receiver was milled or not, and it had a low power optic. I don't think any AK folding stocks provide solid enough lock up or good enough cheekweld to consider. However for pie plates at two hundred, just buy the AK of your choosing an optic mount, and slap the reddot or 1-4 of your choosing on there, or challenge yourself and do it with the irons.
Re: Urban Ak Sniper 150-200 yard engagment range
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Beef</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Didn't the Iraqis field a Ak based sniper rifle? Its not really a sniper rifle in the Western sense, more like a designated marksman rifle, better sights and moderate mods to increase hit potential. I believe it had a longer barrel, not sure if the receiver was milled or not, and it had a low power optic. I don't think any AK folding stocks provide solid enough lock up or good enough cheekweld to consider. However for pie plates at two hundred, just buy the AK of your choosing an optic mount, and slap the reddot or 1-4 of your choosing on there, or challenge yourself and do it with the irons. </div></div> A few insurgents used one it looked like a PSL and was a stamped receiver, not sure if it was standard issue(Iraq Army) or not. The most common insurgent "sniper" if you would call them that used a SKS with a Scope. I have also found that a good SKS will out shoot a AK(stamped) in terms of accuracy. I think if I was to build one, I would go AR platform.
Just found it in my book it is called a Tabuk Sniper Rifle it was Iraqi Issued.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Beef</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Didn't the Iraqis field a Ak based sniper rifle? Its not really a sniper rifle in the Western sense, more like a designated marksman rifle, better sights and moderate mods to increase hit potential. I believe it had a longer barrel, not sure if the receiver was milled or not, and it had a low power optic. I don't think any AK folding stocks provide solid enough lock up or good enough cheekweld to consider. However for pie plates at two hundred, just buy the AK of your choosing an optic mount, and slap the reddot or 1-4 of your choosing on there, or challenge yourself and do it with the irons. </div></div> A few insurgents used one it looked like a PSL and was a stamped receiver, not sure if it was standard issue(Iraq Army) or not. The most common insurgent "sniper" if you would call them that used a SKS with a Scope. I have also found that a good SKS will out shoot a AK(stamped) in terms of accuracy. I think if I was to build one, I would go AR platform.
Just found it in my book it is called a Tabuk Sniper Rifle it was Iraqi Issued.
Re: Urban Ak Sniper 150-200 yard engagment range
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Climate17</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My thinking is that 7.62x39 is very cheap. I was thinking of using a milled reciever and a folding stock. Caa makes a neat attacment that allows you to use ar style stocks. just spit balling. the other way i was looking at was to shorten up a dragonov and do some scope converting (i'm left handed). would be nice to stretch it out a little farther than 200 yards. folding stock and shorter barrel on dragonov would be nice. </div></div>
You're basically asking for the farm. Lower your expectations, compromise and get a rifle that's suited for one or two specific tasks. You want a short barreled, folding stock "sniper" AK with a big scope for precision shooting?
Look, I can understand wanting an AK but if this is the intended purpose, it's the wrong choice.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Climate17</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My thinking is that 7.62x39 is very cheap. I was thinking of using a milled reciever and a folding stock. Caa makes a neat attacment that allows you to use ar style stocks. just spit balling. the other way i was looking at was to shorten up a dragonov and do some scope converting (i'm left handed). would be nice to stretch it out a little farther than 200 yards. folding stock and shorter barrel on dragonov would be nice. </div></div>
You're basically asking for the farm. Lower your expectations, compromise and get a rifle that's suited for one or two specific tasks. You want a short barreled, folding stock "sniper" AK with a big scope for precision shooting?
Look, I can understand wanting an AK but if this is the intended purpose, it's the wrong choice.
Re: Urban Ak Sniper 150-200 yard engagment range
Ohh yeah!! AK Sniper rifle, Now that's gonna be a game changer!
Ohh yeah!! AK Sniper rifle, Now that's gonna be a game changer!
Re: Urban Ak Sniper 150-200 yard engagment range
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spaceman_Spiff</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't really think that "AK" and "Sniper" can go together in the same sentence unless its something like: "That US Sniper just took down that bastard with an AK." </div></div>
Unless you are Red Jacket.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spaceman_Spiff</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't really think that "AK" and "Sniper" can go together in the same sentence unless its something like: "That US Sniper just took down that bastard with an AK." </div></div>
Unless you are Red Jacket.
Re: Urban Ak Sniper 150-200 yard engagment range
I believe this is what you are looking for. TSD is the only company I know of that is pushing the AK to its limits.
http://tsdcombatsystems.com/kalashnikov-rifles/
http://tsdcombatsystems.com/sniper-systems/
I believe this is what you are looking for. TSD is the only company I know of that is pushing the AK to its limits.
http://tsdcombatsystems.com/kalashnikov-rifles/
http://tsdcombatsystems.com/sniper-systems/
Re: Urban Ak Sniper 150-200 yard engagment range
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: briggs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I believe this is what you are looking for. TSD is the only company I know of that is pushing the AK to its limits.
http://tsdcombatsystems.com/kalashnikov-rifles/
http://tsdcombatsystems.com/sniper-systems/
</div></div>
AR-12? I don't even know what to make of that.
Their combat AKs look good but you really gotta like the platform to swallow the $1,685 base price.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: briggs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I believe this is what you are looking for. TSD is the only company I know of that is pushing the AK to its limits.
http://tsdcombatsystems.com/kalashnikov-rifles/
http://tsdcombatsystems.com/sniper-systems/
</div></div>
AR-12? I don't even know what to make of that.
Their combat AKs look good but you really gotta like the platform to swallow the $1,685 base price.
Re: Urban Ak Sniper 150-200 yard engagment range
Maadi RPM, 4 out of 7 shots 500 yards at man size target using iron sights.
Maadi RPM, 4 out of 7 shots 500 yards at man size target using iron sights.
Re: Urban Ak Sniper 150-200 yard engagment range
Yep, they aren't cheap but they aren't WASRs either. I like AKs but my arsenal works fine for what I need.
Yep, they aren't cheap but they aren't WASRs either. I like AKs but my arsenal works fine for what I need.
I have a Yugo m70 that hits pie plates at 200 yards no problem with out any modifications or scopes. Most AK 47's I have seen can do this. With the exception that you are not just blasting away like a wild man making the gun so hot your starting to burn the furniture.
Your trying to make Tubuk Iraq made them use an M70 as a base.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabuk_Sniper_Rifle
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabuk_Sniper_Rifle
Given any thoughts to the Vepr rifles? they can be had from 7-800 in 223, 308, and x54R. Super Veprs even have a longer fluted barrel. They use heavy rpk receivers and heavy barrels. Throw on a Parabellum ARAK top cover and scope of your choice.
The most accurate AK variants are the Valmet Rk series, as well as the Sako Rk92 & Rk95, especially using Finnish Defense Forces brass-cased SAKO 7.62x39 ammunition. Every one I have seen is a solid 1-1.5 MOA gun, which is scary for a standard issue service rifle.
Romanian 7.62x39 AK rifle + 8" target at 100 yards strapped into a Caldwell lead sled with crappy Wolf ammo, with a 2MOA Burris FFII on top (at this distance, the red dot covers about 60% of the target. I'm sure better ammo would yield better results, as would a clean bore. AK and Sniper do not belong in the same sentence (to be fair, my spotter said I was getting VERY close to the fire extinguisher at 375 yards that I could not see with the naked eye, but there was a paper plate on a stick that I was guestimating off of....
1st shot 12 o'clock high, next shot bulls eye, next shot touching bulls-eye, then it started to wander. I took out the cleaning rod after the 4th shot or so, wonder if that had any effect
1st shot 12 o'clock high, next shot bulls eye, next shot touching bulls-eye, then it started to wander. I took out the cleaning rod after the 4th shot or so, wonder if that had any effect
