Just curious if anyone knows of any laws against using non leathal shot like shot gun bags or others against someone. I don't plan on making, obtaining, or using any but I am curious if a person would get in trouble for using it on someone say breaking into your vehicle or tool shed outside your home to scare the heck out of them and/or neutralize them until police arrived
- Thread starter Icewater
- Start date
Are you kidding? People go to prison all the time for simply firing a warning shot, can't imagine how fucked you'd get if you actually connect with non-lethal. If they're outside your house you can't do shit but call the 5.0 and 40 mins later you can tell them all about it.
Sounds about right, lol
In my opinion. If some one is breaking in you shed your not in immediate danger so there is no reason to shoot at them... BUT if the shit bag is in your house it's probably time to use any force necessary. Aka 00 BUCK, less then lethal gives them a way to retaliate against you.
Just for reference...
We used to have non lethal wars in the barracks with 12ga. and 40mm....until one of the guys got his bicep ripped off by a 12ga rubber slug. If a situation escalates to where you need to shoot someone, do it with live rounds. Otherwise you will get yourself killed, or imprisoned.
We used to have non lethal wars in the barracks with 12ga. and 40mm....until one of the guys got his bicep ripped off by a 12ga rubber slug. If a situation escalates to where you need to shoot someone, do it with live rounds. Otherwise you will get yourself killed, or imprisoned.
You will end up sued and in trouble. They should leave either dead or alive, but never wounded. And if they do leave dead, make sure its not a shot in the back, in your front yard, as they run away....
Wounding, and less than lethal will only get you in trouble.
Wounding, and less than lethal will only get you in trouble.
Using non lethal shot?
Graham's Rule #1 applies.
Keep in mind that legal advice given on this Thread will depend on what the law actually is in your state.
In Michigan, and in other states, the above quoted advice is not correct.
OP,
Graham's Rule #1 applies.
Keep in mind that legal advice given on this Thread will depend on what the law actually is in your state.
In Michigan, and in other states, the above quoted advice is not correct.
Last edited:
I figured laws varied by state, no need for me to see a lawyer about as I do not plan on doing this. The comment about them not being a threat so why use it makes me wonder about even using my own fists, I'm sure I would be in trouble for assault, funny how we protect criminals
Using non lethal shot?
Using a reasonable amount of force to defend yourself is not assault.
The best time to talk to a lawyer about the law of self-defense in your state is before you need him.
Using a reasonable amount of force to defend yourself is not assault.
In simple terms; It would be "assault" on your part. If they are breaking into your car you can tell them you are calling the cops and if they, at that point assault you, defend yourself!
OP,
Again, Graham's Rule #1 applies.
In your state is it not permissible to use non-deadly force to prevent a crime in progress or to recover property?
Using non lethal shot?
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.065
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2012/11/27/reality-check-explaining-minnesotas-self-defense-laws/
And by first spending three minutes with Google:
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.065
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2012/11/27/reality-check-explaining-minnesotas-self-defense-laws/
Last edited:
I was just about to ask where you live. Up there I wouldn't try it. Down where I have a house now, 9 times out of 10 you'd get a cop that would laugh about it. However, if that 10th cop showed up you may have some " 'splainin' to do do".
Everyone misses sometimes... Go with the biggest target you have IMHO if you need to shoot.
Laws Aside. Any situation that escalates to my use of a shotgun to stop a threat, Lethal is the only way.
I'd rather keep my family safe and alive and deal with legalities after the threat has been stopped, than worry about the law or mess around with non-lethal crap.
Someone breaking into your shed or car does not warrant lethal force
I'd rather keep my family safe and alive and deal with legalities after the threat has been stopped, than worry about the law or mess around with non-lethal crap.
Someone breaking into your shed or car does not warrant lethal force
Last edited:
I myself would never rely on "less than lethal" ammo in a HD/SD situation. If you're using less than lethal ammo and the BG has a gun and is using real ammo, you're pretty much fucked. I volunteered to get shot with a less than lethal shotgun round before and yeah it hurts, but it doesn't stop a threat. Maybe it could scare them I guess, but none the less it won't stop them. 00 buck is all that is in my shotgun for defending my family and home.
I can think of several hundred ways to "scare the heck out of" someone, short of using a firearm.
Please don't misconstrue my post as legal advice, but if your concern is real then speaking to a licensed attorney in your state with knowledge of the applicable statutes and appellate law would seem highly advisable. Law libraries are full of appellate decisions interpreting statutes and reversing both trial and lower appellate courts' decisions. A simple and basic understanding of your statutes is almost never enough to avoid trouble. For example, is the standard in your state based on an objective or subjective standard, and if it is a reasonable man standard you can never be sure what the jury will find to be reasonable. Similarly, what the average citizen may think is great bodily harm may be vastly different than the legal standard in your state. The decision whether to prosecute and the difference between acquittal and conviction can hinge on the smallest difference/change in facts. And as said or suggested above, some may not hesitate to do whatever it takes to protect their loved ones including having to serve time in jail or prison, or be sued for every dollar they have. But whatever your position it is almost always best to be as informed as possible in advance of making life altering decisions.
I was asking more out of curiosity, I have never heard of anyone using it or have never heard conversation about it. There doesn't seem to be anything specifically written into law about it either. I thought it might be an interesting topic. Like I said I never plan to use non leathal shot but someday might consult legal advice on what to do if there was a break in, in or out of my home/garage. In the home is one thing but outside I would more than likely just call the police and try to observe details about the person without escalating a situation. There really is nothing outside my home worth dying for or spending prison time for but I also think I should have the right to do something if I choose. I have a buddy that heard a noise outside one night and looked out his window and saw someone digging around in his car, he grabbed a curtain rod and snuck up on him and wacked him in the back laying him out. Turned out to be some young about 16 yr old, he told him to give his stuff back and get out of there. I thought my friend was a brave hero but looking back I bet he could have gotten into a lot of trouble
Don't forget the most important phrase and repeat it over and over. "I felt my life was in danger"
"One story, end of story." 'Nuff said?
Incidentally, there's "less lethal" bean bags, but PDs and the manufacturers themselves no longer refer to them as "non-lethal."
Incidentally, there's "less lethal" bean bags, but PDs and the manufacturers themselves no longer refer to them as "non-lethal."
dont let the fuckers talk, they will lie and get you in jail forever and sue you too. Kill them, then it is your word against theirs.
^ This is what it boils down to. REASONABLE amount of force. Whether that reasonable amount of force is using a guillotine or rendering a naked version of the hokey pokey, if you use the amount of force that a jury of your peers would accept/except for a similar person in your situation, then you are within the confines of the law.
Just so you know it's not Non-Lethal it's technically called Less Lethal not even Less than Lethal is a proper term. I saw a guy put a bean bad through a guy with a 12 ga at about six feet, lethal force would have been justified so it was not a problem but the fact is under the right conditions it's all potentially lethal.
Similar threads
