Where was the sheriffs department winning? I know it was a different competition but I lost the thread.
USMC Beat by the Coast Guard and the 3 state National Guard Sniper teams
- Thread starter ArmyJerry
- Start date
Hi,
He only hates me because his wife and twin daughters love me lolol.
Hi,
There was a Sheriffs Office SWAT that placed 3rd at this years International Warrior Competition in Jordan at KASOTC.
http://warriorcompetition.com/
https://www.armyrecognition.com/war...banon_winner_of_warrior_competition_2018.html
Sincerely,
Theis
Speaking of the LEO's who compete I sat with an Officer who's partner from the 2017 comp was shot between the eyes with a 38 just a month ago, so they were not able to compete this year. Officer Matt Cooper has a family (2 kids I think), wife is a school teacher. He survived the shot but has a long road ahead of him. They were taking donations to help the family out with expenses. Officer Matt Cooper is with Covington PD. If you want to help the family you can contact the Covington GA PD for how to help.
Just thought I would mention it...
I hope that whoever shot him catches a .45 round between the eyes.
I will agree with you, and I personally could do without all of the childish stupidity that this thread is full of. Yeah, I get that it is the Bear Pit, and it is all just fun & games. I guess maybe we need to create 2 topics, one here for the the goofy BS, and one elsewhere for the serious discussion?
QUOTE "this is a chance to learn some new TTPs and take them back to your units to make everyone better. That is the point of this competition, same as the BRC."
Competitions should about validating your TTPs against your fellow competitors. If you have highly effective TTPs, and they are executed properly in a valid competition format, then the "best" should come out on top. You should be focused on execution in a competition, and you should be focused on learning in training. Yes I do learn from the competitions that I go to, but the format that the ISC is executed in, is very POOR and RESTRICTIVE when it comes to true learning opportunities. The ISC used to actually be a good combination of competition and training, but that has gone out the window in most recent years.
QUOTE "I had the chance to talk to some young snipers at the banquet after the comp this year that were stoked about some of the scenarios they were presented and being able to take them back to their units to better their training. That is what this is all about..."
Sadly that was probably the case, because when you have had $#!@ for initial and ongoing training, then it really doesn't take much to impress you. Per your own comments most Snipers are operating without jack$#!@ when it comes to everything, so anything that they can get is better than nothing.
QUOTE "Further more the results of a comp like this has very little to do with determining the best snipers out there or the best sniper program out there. There are too many variables in a comp like this for that to even makesince sense."
There is some truth here, because the way the ISC events and scoring are setup, and the variation within the teams (training, exp, gear, etc), it can be a very uneven playing field that produces some erratic outcomes. Things have improved some since AMU has become more involved, but the bottom line is the majority of people calling the shots actually know very little about setting up or running competitions.
QUOTE "We are truly fortunate to have the best sniper schools (all of them!) in the world here"
Sorry, the best compared to what? How many examples do I need to provide about how piss poor the majority of the programs really are? There has been a set of moving targets sitting in a pile at Burroughs range for probably over 15 years, and they were still shooting popsicle stick targets being walked behind a berm. They waste countless amounts of time on ghillie washing and stalking. When was the last time that anyone downrange actually put on a ghillie and stalked down a target? I can go on, but there are plenty 1-2 week Civ schools that you would get more out of than going to a 7-8 week Mil school. You said it yourself, it is not the fault of the troops who want to be Snipers, it is the fault of the people who are tasked with making it happen. If you also look at the current direction of the ISC, it is not about doing everything possible to send the troops home better off then when they showed up.
QUOTE "Luckily there are organizations like the Army Sniper Association who fundraise to help buy equipment these guys need. There are other organizations like the ASA out there, but I have very close ties to the ASA and have been able to see what they do."
Nothing against ASA, I am a Life member, and I have supported them and the ISC for years. You also have to mention American Snipers
https://www.americansnipers.org/
Brian and his crew have done more than anyone else that I know to support Snipers downrange.
Last but not least, people have to take a really long, hard, and honest look at things and call BS where necessary, before things can really get better. There are plenty of people who could really turn the ISC into a truly flagship event, but they are not being involved in anyway. I really want to see the programs and events improve, but at some point I am also not going to continue to be an enabler for the crap that is going on.
My 2 cents, which ain't worth anymore than anyone else's 2 cents!
QUOTE "this is a chance to learn some new TTPs and take them back to your units to make everyone better. That is the point of this competition, same as the BRC."
Competitions should about validating your TTPs against your fellow competitors. If you have highly effective TTPs, and they are executed properly in a valid competition format, then the "best" should come out on top. You should be focused on execution in a competition, and you should be focused on learning in training. Yes I do learn from the competitions that I go to, but the format that the ISC is executed in, is very POOR and RESTRICTIVE when it comes to true learning opportunities. The ISC used to actually be a good combination of competition and training, but that has gone out the window in most recent years.
QUOTE "I had the chance to talk to some young snipers at the banquet after the comp this year that were stoked about some of the scenarios they were presented and being able to take them back to their units to better their training. That is what this is all about..."
Sadly that was probably the case, because when you have had $#!@ for initial and ongoing training, then it really doesn't take much to impress you. Per your own comments most Snipers are operating without jack$#!@ when it comes to everything, so anything that they can get is better than nothing.
QUOTE "Further more the results of a comp like this has very little to do with determining the best snipers out there or the best sniper program out there. There are too many variables in a comp like this for that to even make
There is some truth here, because the way the ISC events and scoring are setup, and the variation within the teams (training, exp, gear, etc), it can be a very uneven playing field that produces some erratic outcomes. Things have improved some since AMU has become more involved, but the bottom line is the majority of people calling the shots actually know very little about setting up or running competitions.
QUOTE "We are truly fortunate to have the best sniper schools (all of them!) in the world here"
Sorry, the best compared to what? How many examples do I need to provide about how piss poor the majority of the programs really are? There has been a set of moving targets sitting in a pile at Burroughs range for probably over 15 years, and they were still shooting popsicle stick targets being walked behind a berm. They waste countless amounts of time on ghillie washing and stalking. When was the last time that anyone downrange actually put on a ghillie and stalked down a target? I can go on, but there are plenty 1-2 week Civ schools that you would get more out of than going to a 7-8 week Mil school. You said it yourself, it is not the fault of the troops who want to be Snipers, it is the fault of the people who are tasked with making it happen. If you also look at the current direction of the ISC, it is not about doing everything possible to send the troops home better off then when they showed up.
QUOTE "Luckily there are organizations like the Army Sniper Association who fundraise to help buy equipment these guys need. There are other organizations like the ASA out there, but I have very close ties to the ASA and have been able to see what they do."
Nothing against ASA, I am a Life member, and I have supported them and the ISC for years. You also have to mention American Snipers
https://www.americansnipers.org/
Brian and his crew have done more than anyone else that I know to support Snipers downrange.
Last but not least, people have to take a really long, hard, and honest look at things and call BS where necessary, before things can really get better. There are plenty of people who could really turn the ISC into a truly flagship event, but they are not being involved in anyway. I really want to see the programs and events improve, but at some point I am also not going to continue to be an enabler for the crap that is going on.
My 2 cents, which ain't worth anymore than anyone else's 2 cents!
Wow, there are some negative nancy's on this forum. I imagine it's like going to Hooter's on fight night, master level armchair quarterbacking. That's pretty neat. Especially when you know the loudest shit talkers have all competed in the USASOC and ISC. Regale us with your wisdom O ancient snipers of yore!
I'll say this about the comps: you have to game to win. Sure there's TTP's and drills to pick up and compare notes, but at the end of the day it's mostly a UKD PRS match with some running and pageantry sprinkled in for flavor.
A word on the USMC team- those fucking guys had to take their own leave to shoot the USASOC last year, and half of what they used they had to borrow. Coasties were there too and they were solid dudes. Canadians are in and out but everyone I've met or worked with were legit. I guess I'd just challenge any of the ultimate internet warriors on here to render your criticisms and judgement in person at the finale of one of these two events. I'll be there most likely, I'd love to see that show.
Keep up the good work kids!
Semper Fi and DOL-
I'll say this about the comps: you have to game to win. Sure there's TTP's and drills to pick up and compare notes, but at the end of the day it's mostly a UKD PRS match with some running and pageantry sprinkled in for flavor.
A word on the USMC team- those fucking guys had to take their own leave to shoot the USASOC last year, and half of what they used they had to borrow. Coasties were there too and they were solid dudes. Canadians are in and out but everyone I've met or worked with were legit. I guess I'd just challenge any of the ultimate internet warriors on here to render your criticisms and judgement in person at the finale of one of these two events. I'll be there most likely, I'd love to see that show.
Keep up the good work kids!
Semper Fi and DOL-
I followed the competition quite close and was very impressed by the effort by each team, as one of my old buddies was participating ( the Danish team ).
Again, this year they choose to compete with the H&K 417 and the old SIG P210 pistol and this prove, that skills beats everything!!!
Again, this year they choose to compete with the H&K 417 and the old SIG P210 pistol and this prove, that skills beats everything!!!
QUOTE: Wow, there are some negative nancy's on this forum. I imagine it's like going to Hooter's on fight night, master level armchair quarterbacking. That's pretty neat. Especially when you know the loudest shit talkers have all competed in the USASOC and ISC. Regale us with your wisdom O ancient snipers of yore!
Not sure if that was directed at me, but if it was:
As the saying goes, "Been there, done that, got the t-shirt". That covers 6 out of the last 9 years in one capacity or another. I am no super duper sniper, but I am also not just an armchair quarterback. If I am talking about it, I have firsthand knowledge of it.
QUOTE: I'll say this about the comps: you have to game to win. Sure there's TTP's and drills to pick up and compare notes, but at the end of the day it's mostly a UKD PRS match with some running and pageantry sprinkled in for flavor.
There is a reason why AMU wins every time that they enter a team in the ISC! They can flat out shoot, but they also know how to take on a competition and break each stage down to take full advantage of it. Prime example of the huge skill variation that exists between the teams in the Comp.
The events/stages do change from year to year to a certain extent. Yes, I would equate some of them to a PRS match, but they also have events that are Mil/Sniper based. For this year, you had to assemble a radio and call for fire, and of course there is always the stalk. Picking and executing the events, and really the overall match, is where they could use some "professional help". I know event and match directors who can accomplish way more than they do, in a much more effective and beneficial manner for everyone. Prime example, Shannon Kay who owns/runs K&M just ran over 400 shooters through a 2 day PRS match (GAP Grind) where each shooter went through 20 stages and fired 194 rounds. Contrast that with the ISC where shooters are there for more time, but run less than 10 events/stages, spend hours sitting around, and fire a whole lot less rounds. I am not advocating turning the ISC into a PRS match, but there is serious room for improvement on many fronts!
If you look at an event like Sniper Week, run by ASA and Snipercraft http://snipercraft.org/sniperweek.html
They spend the first 2 days providing comprehensive classroom lectures and presentations, and the next 2 days are intense, job-related range training and competition. The ISC used to be very similar, but that has come and gone from year to year.
Bottom Line, the ISC can be run MUCH BETTER, if they would just ask for and accept help from the bigger sniper, training, and competitive communities
QUOTE: A word on the USMC team- those fucking guys had to take their own leave to shoot the USASOC last year, and half of what they used they had to borrow. Coasties were there too and they were solid dudes. Canadians are in and out but everyone I've met or worked with were legit. I guess I'd just challenge any of the ultimate internet warriors on here to render your criticisms and judgement in person at the finale of one of these two events. I'll be there most likely, I'd love to see that show.
Nothing but praise for the trigger pullers who attend this event (and others) year after year. Yes, I also know plenty of them (including me) who use their own time, pay out of their pockets, and beg & barrow to just be able to compete. That is what really pisses me off when these events get all played up as "Rainbows & Unicorns". The BS on all fronts needs to be called out, and needs to stop! But until a large number of people are making noise about all of that BS, it will just go on.
QUOTE: Keep up the good work kids!
Semper Fi and DOL
I am NOT just trying to poor piss & vinegar on the ISC, I am honestly hoping that things can be done to improve it for everyone. To that extent I have personally tried to reach out and help, but when it comes to the actual planning and execution, it has been a very closed shop. I have honestly hit a point where I am putting my time and energy elsewhere because I feel like I am getting return on that investment. I am not opposed to getting back into it, but only if things are going to be open to change for the better.
Not sure if that was directed at me, but if it was:
As the saying goes, "Been there, done that, got the t-shirt". That covers 6 out of the last 9 years in one capacity or another. I am no super duper sniper, but I am also not just an armchair quarterback. If I am talking about it, I have firsthand knowledge of it.
QUOTE: I'll say this about the comps: you have to game to win. Sure there's TTP's and drills to pick up and compare notes, but at the end of the day it's mostly a UKD PRS match with some running and pageantry sprinkled in for flavor.
There is a reason why AMU wins every time that they enter a team in the ISC! They can flat out shoot, but they also know how to take on a competition and break each stage down to take full advantage of it. Prime example of the huge skill variation that exists between the teams in the Comp.
The events/stages do change from year to year to a certain extent. Yes, I would equate some of them to a PRS match, but they also have events that are Mil/Sniper based. For this year, you had to assemble a radio and call for fire, and of course there is always the stalk. Picking and executing the events, and really the overall match, is where they could use some "professional help". I know event and match directors who can accomplish way more than they do, in a much more effective and beneficial manner for everyone. Prime example, Shannon Kay who owns/runs K&M just ran over 400 shooters through a 2 day PRS match (GAP Grind) where each shooter went through 20 stages and fired 194 rounds. Contrast that with the ISC where shooters are there for more time, but run less than 10 events/stages, spend hours sitting around, and fire a whole lot less rounds. I am not advocating turning the ISC into a PRS match, but there is serious room for improvement on many fronts!
If you look at an event like Sniper Week, run by ASA and Snipercraft http://snipercraft.org/sniperweek.html
They spend the first 2 days providing comprehensive classroom lectures and presentations, and the next 2 days are intense, job-related range training and competition. The ISC used to be very similar, but that has come and gone from year to year.
Bottom Line, the ISC can be run MUCH BETTER, if they would just ask for and accept help from the bigger sniper, training, and competitive communities
QUOTE: A word on the USMC team- those fucking guys had to take their own leave to shoot the USASOC last year, and half of what they used they had to borrow. Coasties were there too and they were solid dudes. Canadians are in and out but everyone I've met or worked with were legit. I guess I'd just challenge any of the ultimate internet warriors on here to render your criticisms and judgement in person at the finale of one of these two events. I'll be there most likely, I'd love to see that show.
Nothing but praise for the trigger pullers who attend this event (and others) year after year. Yes, I also know plenty of them (including me) who use their own time, pay out of their pockets, and beg & barrow to just be able to compete. That is what really pisses me off when these events get all played up as "Rainbows & Unicorns". The BS on all fronts needs to be called out, and needs to stop! But until a large number of people are making noise about all of that BS, it will just go on.
QUOTE: Keep up the good work kids!
Semper Fi and DOL
I am NOT just trying to poor piss & vinegar on the ISC, I am honestly hoping that things can be done to improve it for everyone. To that extent I have personally tried to reach out and help, but when it comes to the actual planning and execution, it has been a very closed shop. I have honestly hit a point where I am putting my time and energy elsewhere because I feel like I am getting return on that investment. I am not opposed to getting back into it, but only if things are going to be open to change for the better.
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Do you have, or can you provide any links where we can help Officer Cooper and his family ? Maybe contact info for Covington PD, of a more direct nature than Google fu ?
I took this picture of the flyer that was on the table at the banquet.
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