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varget lot to lot variances UPDATED PICS

ubet

ubet

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May 28, 2008
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Commifornia no longer
I use 44.3grs of varget behind a 175smk (or had been). I bought 4 new jugs of varget that are a different lot than I had previously. Is it pretty similar lot to lot, or do I need to lower my first few charges a couple of grains and work a whole new load up?

Thanks
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use 44.3grs of varget behind a 175smk (or had been). I bought 4 new jugs of varget that are a different lot than I had previously. Is it pretty similar lot to lot, or do I need to lower my first few charges a couple of grains and work a whole new load up?

Thanks </div></div>

Varget has been known to exhibit lot to lot variances in the past.

You might drop the charge a tad and compare the results to your data, proceeding from there.

Chris
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

One thing about Varget is it doesn't have a great amount of temperature varience. So I guess that is one nice thing about it. But I have heard the lots can be a little excessively different.
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

so with every purchase you test again? Something else to consider. GTK
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

I do. I consider it a load confirmation. Better to load up a few and check their performance out against known data before running up a full batch and then find out they don't shoot to POI.

My handloading approach confines my work to known needs, shortly before anticipated usage. I don't like to let loaded rounds sit unused for long periods.

Greg
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Radar86</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so with every purchase you test again? </div></div>

A change in powder 'lot' is similar to a change in any other component. The SAFE thing to do is drop back and work your way back up.
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

I learned this one the hard way and had to toss almost 200 pcs of Lapua that I shot at the match. Didnt have a choice but shoot as I drove 6 hours to the weekend match. But I toasted the pockets as I had used a new lot of powder and didnt realize it as it was all bought at the same time and I thought it was the same lot. Nope, wasnt. So my palma load that was ok with one lot, was over pressure with the other lot.

Nowadays I always try to buy components in the biggest lot that I can and keep them all marked so I know if I change something that I need to test it first.

Varget, of course, is notorious for this problem....at least you know now and dont have to waste a bunch of brass...or worse. :)
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

Are you new jugs 1 lb'ers or 8 lb'ers? I only buy in 8 lb jugs. That way you get a lot of rounds before having to check a new load.

OF course as little as I shoot now thanks to kids, I could probably achieve the same results with 1 lb jugs....
smile.gif
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

Varget had a bad run of powder a few years ago and the legend continues.

I have NEVER had a problem with Varget and I've used it for a decade.

Then again I dont crush into the lands so my bullet gets a bit of a jump. I dont chase the ragged edge of some magic FPS parameter so a new lot would have to be very hot to even be noticed.

The biggest difference I saw on target was a few years ago and that was .25moa at 100 yards.

As an aside, I know a few 175 shooters and they like a flat 44 grains of Varget and they have had zero trouble from lot to lot.

Good Luck
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

That may explain why when I purchased a # of the same powder it reacted differently. I doubled check and went out again, and it was definitely different. I thought it was the weather.

I think that getting 8lbs at a time may work for me too. But does shelf life impact it too? I often switch from caliber to caliber (and thus powders) and 8lbs of a particular powder might wind up sitting on my shelve a while (say almost a year?).
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

As long as you keep it in a dry place, you should not have to worry. I have an 8lb jug that is almost 3 years old.
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

I was able to use 46 grains with a 168smk. I after those pounds were gone got some more of a different lot. Same load specification I got pretty heavy pressure signs.
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

Ok, went and tested old vs new today @ 312 yds.

Old lot, lower left 2shots one was my cold bore the other was my 2nd shot
IMAG0044-1.jpg


New lot. Note I just reloaded and fired. Upper left was ALL flinch
IMAG0043-1.jpg


Both were 44.3 grs, same everything else.

I am average or below shooter. I probably spent 1o mins from setup to backup at my ffp.
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

I see people mention all the time lot to lot variations. I'm not convinced that it's a lot to lot issue. Rather, it's an issue of how much moisture is introduced to the powder (or drying out) b/t the old lot and the new lot.

Take an 8lb jug of Varget and chrono your loads when you first open it and load rounds and then chrono again on the last loaded rounds when you are at the bottom. If the jug has been opened numerous times, I'm thinking you will see a velocity difference.
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

I've used Varget for years and have never had a problem from lot to lot. I think sometimes guys run into trouble running to high a powder charge to start with. In my .308 GAP Hospitaller my load is a relatively mild 43.3 grains of Varget, Lapua brass, CCI 250, Berger's new 175 grain OTM at 2610 fps with an E.S. of 11 fps. In my opinion accuracy trumps velocity every time.
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

Yeah, I dont think I am going to change anything.

I have never bought 8lbers, I think inode is onto something, thats the good thing about the 1lb jugs, less opening.
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

All I use are 8 pound jugs. Have killed a few jugs of Varget and getting ready to kill a jug of H4350 and the velocity is the same as when I opened it.
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

I was convinced I had measured a 50fps difference from one 8lb jug to the new jug I just started using (different lot numbers). Dumped the Shooting Chrony and got the CED M2 and the problem went away. Velocities from both lots are now the same.
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

I've definitely seen lot to lot variance and always work up a new lot. Back when powder and ammo was hard to get I bought some one pounders when ever they were on the self, of course most of them were different lots. I got sick of having to work up every time so I just recently mixed up the last 3.5 pounds of different lots. Now I don't need to worry about that for a little while.
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances UPDATED PICS

My 300 yard groups were similar not sure if i've switched lots of powder, can't remember. I felt it was more me, or hope it was me and not the powder.
5d15b6.jpg
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances UPDATED PICS

FWIW, I've noticed lot to lot changes more in other powders than I have with varget. I rarely see much changes in the varget. When ever I open a new lot (I buy 8 to 16 pounds of the same lot at a time), I take the chrony to the range with me and compare side by side, new versus old. This way I eliminate the debate of "is it just me or the powder". So far after going through several lot changes over several years, I have yet to see more than a 20FPS change from lot to lot with Varget (maybe I'm lucky). I have seen as much as 90FPS differences with other types of powders.
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances UPDATED PICS

There's a very easy solution to your problem. All the jugs you purcgased are Varget yes? Then mix them all together, swirl them around and get each jug throughly mixed with all the other jugs. This will eliminate any variations in the seperate lots.

You might have to re-verify your load data, but I doubt it very much. There should be virtually no difference remaining. When you're down to a jugs amount left, go purchase several more, mix them in together with the last remaining jug and you're good to go again.

Wha la - problem solved! (Make sure it's all the same powder however - It goes without saying - <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">do not mix different powders</span></span>.)
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances UPDATED PICS

Not gonna mix canisters, that is asking for trouble. From the quick 10 shots, the new lot is better
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances UPDATED PICS

I think it's easier to finish the old can up (and not to mix).

I don't know if it's inviting problems mixing the same powders, but why risk it.
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: inode</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I see people mention all the time lot to lot variations. I'm not convinced that it's a lot to lot issue. Rather, it's an issue of how much moisture is introduced to the powder (or drying out) b/t the old lot and the new lot.

Take an 8lb jug of Varget and chrono your loads when you first open it and load rounds and then chrono again on the last loaded rounds when you are at the bottom. If the jug has been opened numerous times, I'm thinking you will see a velocity difference. </div></div>

Is it okay to attach desiccant to the inside of the lid of the powder jug?
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

Been using varget for many years in my 308's and I have never had this issue. I wonder if its because I only buy one pound cans and load about a pound at a time. It could be because my standard load is not a max load, nor is it seated into the lands.
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

Where I used to work we got shipments of prepreg carbon fiber all the time. Each box would have 3 or 4 FAT dessicant packs in them... We're talking 4"x4"x1", weighing about 10oz. I have several dozen of these, which I keep in my 8lb jugs of powder.

Problem solved.

Oh - and the only negative with "mixing" lots is the possibility of "diluting" your best lot.
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

In the past five years I have not experienced a velcity variation with Varget that was significant enough to be able to attribute it to a change in powder lot.

And my Varget from five years ago gets the same velocity today as it did five years ago.
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

Whats the big deal with mixing varget with varget and working up a load?

I have purchased lots of varget within a few months, of different batches, and mixed them together and all has been fine.
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

When I first tried Varget I had a pair of 1 lb's and an 8 lb, the 1 lb were different lot number and made a bit less pressure, I think the difference was almost a full grain in weight for 308. However after I used the 8lb for awhile it seemed to normalize so I'm not really sure what happened there...
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whats the big deal with mixing varget with varget and working up a load?

I have purchased lots of varget within a few months, of different batches, and mixed them together and all has been fine. </div></div>

It is no big deal. I have been doing it for MANY years. I responded to a post on doing so on a bench rest forum and was taken to task, you whould have thought I had committed child abuse.
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

Slightly off topic, but I ran into an old timer at a match last weekend that mixes different ball powders together to get a "proprietary blend". I shivered as he told me his extreme spreads were 200-300fps as first, which he solved by more thorough mixing!

Guess he's got it pretty well figured out because he has been doing it 20 years, has never blown anything up and man,did that rifle shoot!
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

It is one of those....

-- "Man, if i mix this HAWT Red Dot with my BallC2, and some H4350 up I can get an Uber Blend! I kinne Roole Da'World!!!"....

don't laugh..i know one idiot that i have WATCHED mix up Red dot with Blue Dot and FILL DA CASE UP on a .357 magnum.... /shudder. I refused to go out to the range. I do know the idiot is still alive however. No idea about the N-Frame Smith & Wesson .357 mag.

I guess it is all in really, and for damn sure, knowing exactly what you are doing. I prefer to be a pussy, and just shoot 1 lot at a time
wink.gif
That is just me though.

Good shooting,
Gary
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

1) Modern smokeless powder is not <span style="color: #FF0000">hygroscopic</span>.

2) Every modern smokeless rifle cartridge reloader should have at a minimum the Pro Chrono Digital.

hmmmm, the 35P, hmmmm
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances UPDATED PICS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My 300 yard groups were similar not sure if i've switched lots of powder, can't remember. I felt it was more me, or hope it was me and not the powder.
5d15b6.jpg

</div></div>

Rifle/Scope specs please.
I gotsta know.
36614-5046.gif
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whats the big deal with mixing varget with varget and working up a load?

I have purchased lots of varget within a few months, of different batches, and mixed them together and all has been fine. </div></div>

It is no big deal. I have been doing it for MANY years. I responded to a post on doing so on a bench rest forum and was taken to task, you whould have thought I had committed child abuse. </div></div>

Exactly my thinking.

Im not blending up anything new, or mixing powders of dirrent makes. Im simply mixing batches of the same type of powder.

I do this once to arrive at a large volume of powder, begin load development again (usually very minor) and away I go.
 
Re: varget lot to lot variances

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DavidAR10</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1) Modern smokeless powder is not <span style="color: #FF0000">hygroscopic</span>.

2) Every modern smokeless rifle cartridge reloader should have at a minimum the Pro Chrono Digital.

hmmmm, the 35P, hmmmm



</div></div>

I have to respectfully disagree with you on point 2.

Having reloaded for 3 years without a chrono, then having gotten one this winter, I dont think its really helped me at all. All it ever does is raise more questions.

Why does the ammo with the best ES and SD not group the best?
Why does the chrono claim 2657fps average, but my trajectory calculates out to 2730?

So far, the only good thats come from my chrony is being able to "tune in" my rifle with my sniper partners rifle for matching trajectories.
 
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