Vudoo V22 action vs Zermatt Arms RIMX action, can someone please explains the pro and cons of each and how do they fare against each other?
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Vudoo is proven
If you want to get in to more Look at Vudoos track record
That is the dumbest comment ever
as if Zermatt and Bighorn don't have a PROVEN Track Record for making actions
Don't listen to these fools, the RimX would have been best in show and their magazines is literally next level in how they built and designed it. However that said, Vudoo does have patent issues that Zermatt has to address.
Once the patent stuff is settled, the Zermatt will be known as great action
Fuck the partisan haters in this case with their bullshit spin
as if Zermatt and Bighorn don't have a PROVEN Track Record for making actions
Don't listen to these fools, the RimX would have been best in show and their magazines is literally next level in how they built and designed it. However that said, Vudoo does have patent issues that Zermatt has to address.
Once the patent stuff is settled, the Zermatt will be known as great action
Fuck the partisan haters in this case with their bullshit spin
Lowlight said it all patent issues Lets see it settled. Big horn were late on the issue of rimfire. They are playing catchup
I ordered an Ultimatum Deuce ... it's a winner too.
But the RimX is a Rimfire action and not a .22 one. The magazine actually doesn't fit in several of the other actions as designed. It's geometry was meticulously adjusted to limit any influence on the round as the bolt is run. It's machined, not molded.
Talking with Vudoo, Ultimatum, Zermatt, this stuff is moving to the next level.
But the RimX is a Rimfire action and not a .22 one. The magazine actually doesn't fit in several of the other actions as designed. It's geometry was meticulously adjusted to limit any influence on the round as the bolt is run. It's machined, not molded.
Talking with Vudoo, Ultimatum, Zermatt, this stuff is moving to the next level.
I said,
Would have been, simply because of the patent issue, aside from that, it was ...
Unlike you @nesikabay who is being a complete asshole in this thread, I look at all sides and just don't blurt out bullshit
The main issue is the mags, and in my mind the mags are unique enough, but that is not how it works.
Vudoo is great, no question, I fully support their work, their property, but the RimX system is every bit as good, however, things need to be addressed.
Would have been, simply because of the patent issue, aside from that, it was ...
Unlike you @nesikabay who is being a complete asshole in this thread, I look at all sides and just don't blurt out bullshit
The main issue is the mags, and in my mind the mags are unique enough, but that is not how it works.
Vudoo is great, no question, I fully support their work, their property, but the RimX system is every bit as good, however, things need to be addressed.
I've held out on purchasing a Vudoo as I already have a 54.18MSR and sig3000 22lr conversion.
Won't know for sure till I get my hands on the other two, but I just might end up with the Deuce myself. All 3 are so much better than what was available even 3 years ago.
Won't know for sure till I get my hands on the other two, but I just might end up with the Deuce myself. All 3 are so much better than what was available even 3 years ago.
New V22 coming out later this year. Should have everything everyone else has + more.
If Deuce would be ready NOW I would order one... but end of March .. meaning probably early mid April, brings it pretty close to V22's timeline. I'm going to hold off and just use my custom T1X for a bit more. I might start shopping for some R700 chassis deals though.
Are you sure about this statement "should have everything everyone else has + more."?
I haven't seen anything about changeable bolt head like the RimX... Or the 60 degree bolt of the Deuce... where was this announced?
I’m sure RimX is exceptional. But since they use the prefit barrel system, I wonder if you can potentially lose any accuracy. At the same time, Mile High made a prefit 260 barrel for my AIAT that shoots 1/3 MOA. So I don’t know.
There shouldn't be any loss in accuracy with a pre-fit barrel, all else equal.
If it really worries people, have a gunsmith take in your action when spinning up a barrel.
The fact that the action is being built to such tight tolerances that it can accept pre-fits, should be seen as a pro, not a con.
i think we missed that boat with the ban hammer already being dropped but you never know. it is friday night after all
Come on guys, look at the forest not the trees! We are in the beginning stages of an amazing time for precision rimfire! I have spent unknown thousands of dollars trying to get a hyper accurate but still reliably feeding precision 22lr over the last 15ish years. People are shocked at spending $1500-$2000 on a 22lr barreled action these days, but before Vudoo came along (and now Zermat & Ultimatum) there were NO good options besides finding a Sauer conversion kit (which I had) but barrel options were limited because no one offers the 22lr extension, or going the Anschutz route (Match 54 and modifying it for CZ mags or the Anschutz factory 54 repeater) which your limited to stock options, and both of which are EXPENSIVE! Now you can get into a hyper accurate 22lr that is a R700 compatible for under $2500ish.
It is way too soon to tell if one of the new rimfire actions actually has any benefits over the other because only the Vudoo has any time in the real world. Time will tell, but I don’t see you going wrong with whichever one you choose.
It is way too soon to tell if one of the new rimfire actions actually has any benefits over the other because only the Vudoo has any time in the real world. Time will tell, but I don’t see you going wrong with whichever one you choose.
I don't like having options.....usually costs me more money.
I want them all. I have a V22, I pre-ordered a RimX, and that Deuce looks pretty cool.... haaaghhh.... And I still want a 457 American with really nice wood grain and a same contour Shilen ratchet rifled barrel...
Does anyone know about the firing pin/striker arrangement on the RimX ??
Hopefully it's not like the Bergara, with a striker hitting a separate firing pin.
If so, this effectively almost doubles the lock time compared to a true striker, like a Rem 700/Anschutz/Vudoo/etc.
And slow lock time is the last thing you want to add onto the slow barrel time with a .22LR.
If it's truly striker fired, it will be another to look out for.
Hopefully it's not like the Bergara, with a striker hitting a separate firing pin.
If so, this effectively almost doubles the lock time compared to a true striker, like a Rem 700/Anschutz/Vudoo/etc.
And slow lock time is the last thing you want to add onto the slow barrel time with a .22LR.
If it's truly striker fired, it will be another to look out for.
1) What is Zermatt going to charge for extra magazines?
2) are the magazines plastic (looks like it in photo) or metal?
2) are the magazines plastic (looks like it in photo) or metal?
I don't think you could go wrong with either to be honest. I suppose the difference would maybe be a more streamlined wait time for the Vudoo and interchangeable bolt heads with the RimX if you're into that. I could be wrong on the wait times though. My only reservations about the RimX relate to their magazine's remarkable similarity to Vudoo's magazines. If they square that issue with Vudoo, they're golden. All of these options are fantastic for rimfire shooters so we're the real winners here.
I ordered a RimX. Like Jbell, those of you that know me, know I've spent tens of thousands of dollars trying to get to this point. I believe the RimX is going to be "the one." I'm ordering the rest of those that released this year too... because if there's one thing I'm certain of, it's this: Using them all, for at least 10,000rnds each, is the only way to see where they are in the hierarchy. By the end of the year, I'll have that all figured out.
In the mean time, looking at each on the technical merits, the RimX is quite a bit farther ahead than the rest, from a design standpoint. Time will tell if they are able to execute it properly with each unit sold. It isn't as if they are new to action building, so this is a pretty small concern.
The forward compatibility with 17WSM, is a huge deal. That cartridge is quite good.
It's a great time to be in this. ... and some of you would be good to remember that this is an old fight. Some of us have been doing the rimfire trainer thing for 20 years or more. It's been a long pursuit, and all of these options showing up at once is quite a big deal. So for those that would poo-poo any newcomers... the only thing you're revealing is your ignorance.
You can reference back to this post in the future... but my prediction is that by this time next year, the RimX will be the clear winner of all this.
In the mean time, looking at each on the technical merits, the RimX is quite a bit farther ahead than the rest, from a design standpoint. Time will tell if they are able to execute it properly with each unit sold. It isn't as if they are new to action building, so this is a pretty small concern.
The forward compatibility with 17WSM, is a huge deal. That cartridge is quite good.
It's a great time to be in this. ... and some of you would be good to remember that this is an old fight. Some of us have been doing the rimfire trainer thing for 20 years or more. It's been a long pursuit, and all of these options showing up at once is quite a big deal. So for those that would poo-poo any newcomers... the only thing you're revealing is your ignorance.
You can reference back to this post in the future... but my prediction is that by this time next year, the RimX will be the clear winner of all this.
I can't agree more that you can't tell much until you have considerable amount of rounds through a rifle before you know much for sure.
I wish I had the funds and time to test them all, I envy you and can't wait to hear your thoughts on them comparatively.
It's no secret that I'm a huge supporter and fan of Vudoo, but I'll never say that they are the only company capable of producing top end quality components and innovative design. This has been a long time coming & I feel it's just getting started...
No matter which one you choose, more competitors means better products, in performance and all other aspects. The top tier on any industry always says bring it, they want the competition if only to prove they are the best. Either way, it means we are in the golden age of rimfire in my opinion. It’s only going to get better from here. As someone said above, better actions means better barrels....which means better stocks, better scopes and most importantly, eventually we will see better ammo! What more could a rimfire shooter want?!?
Let the games begin!!!
Let the games begin!!!
i'll second you on the desire for more consistent ammo and to answer your question, what more could a rimfire shooter want, for me its more money to buy 1 of everything
At SHOT, I was told $125 for the magazines. They are billet aluminum and have built in adjustable mag catch points. It's cool in that the magazines can be adjusted to the rifle setup (e.g. varying chassis and/or bottom metal), but I would rather make the adjustment on the gun for the magazines.
Agreed. It would make magazine swapping a headache if two different stocks/chassis wanted different heights. I wish more DBM manufacturers made use of an adjustable mag catch like MPA.
If the adjustment was on the rifle... that would require proprietary bottom metal.
Assigning mags to individual rifles is considered a good practice anyway. Each rifle system has its own mags, numbered... so failures can be tracked and remedied.
I'd MUCH rather have the adjustment on the mags. This a is a huge factor in ensuring positive feeding. I still have a prototype laying around of a similar mag I created which had a similar feature. Big win from zermatt here.
... but does anyone else wish they kept the "bighorn" name? I sure do. lol
Assigning mags to individual rifles is considered a good practice anyway. Each rifle system has its own mags, numbered... so failures can be tracked and remedied.
I'd MUCH rather have the adjustment on the mags. This a is a huge factor in ensuring positive feeding. I still have a prototype laying around of a similar mag I created which had a similar feature. Big win from zermatt here.
... but does anyone else wish they kept the "bighorn" name? I sure do. lol
I get that, but I am not a fan of spending $675 for dedicated mags for feeding both my rifle and my wife's. I am not rolling in cash and there is SO much stuff I'd rather buy with that money. And you can number mags anyways and track them without them being dedicated - not sure what that has to do with it. Either way, to each their own.
It's the simple fact that in the rimfire world it is very common to need specifically tuned magazines for each and every rifle. The height those rims sit at is of paramount importance to the functioning of an action. This isn't a centerfire we're talking about here. Nor is it some semi-auto blaster. Accuracy and precision is expected, and with that comes very specific requirements from the magazine. While it may be inconvenient that the mags are viewed as "expensive" by some, this does not negate the fact that certain mags simply will not work correctly in other rifles when tuned for a specific action. This is true even in the centerfire world when dealing with finicky cartridges. Just because a magazine is timed right for one rifle, doesn't mean it will be for another.
Magazines are part of a system, just because you often "can" swap them to other rifles, doesn't mean you should actively be doing that if it can be avoided. Your financial situation is irrelevant when weighed against the answer to a simple question: How would you suggest they solve the feeding issues presented by all the various chassis and DBM systems on the market without an adjustable magazine catch shelf?
A fully machined completely new proprietary mag with all the right features for $120, isn't what I'd call expensive. Financial considerations are irrelevant when you're spending several thousand dollars on a luxury item. That's a super cheap magazine, as far as I am concerned.
Frankly, I'm fucking sick of would-be outstanding products getting hamstrung due to people and their unwillingness to pay for quality. If this action and its associated mags function flawlessly, I could care less if the mags were $500 a piece. I'd still buy 4 of them for this rifle, at minimum. I hope zermatt charges as much as is required to properly service this system and guarantee complete functionality of every unit shipped. There are those of us that recognize just how big a project this was for them and will be rewarding them by paying whatever it is they ask. Just once, I'd like to see the price argument left out of the equation when discussing the merits of a product. As if we don't have enough piece of shit rifle systems built for price in this world.
@AFancyPenguin don't think this is aimed squarely at you. No offense intended... but rather a wake up call for people that want to complain about price all the time. There is more to life.
How much do you think Vudoo would charge for their billet mags, if they had the adjustable feature?.......
Hey no worries here, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I get that rimfire takes a special level of careful for feeding and fitment, I have had my share of feeding issues. I don't agree with the implication that you need to spend money to get good stuff. I think there is way, way to much overpaying in the shooting sports due to the logos. I say that owning 2 V-22s and a couple ARC actions. I don't have problems with spending money, I have problems with spending money for the sake of it.
I am curious why think products are getting hamstrung because people WON'T spend money. That is the voice of the customer, and in the end, the only thing that matters. It is market driven economics and the way it should be in my opinion. Its kinda ridiculous that you are upset about that, to be honest.
But hey, whatever. We can agree to disagree. I hope this whole precision 22 thing keeps going where it is because there is a lot of cool stuff coming out and I don't think anyone would disagree that is good for the sport.
About the same, I’d guess.
Here's a good exercise for you:
1) Design a magazine.
2) Machine or print prototypes.
3) Tweak and perfect that design.
4) Invest in raw materials and machine time to create a production run.
5) Price them where they need to be to be even moderately worth the effort.
If you can get through that list of items, and end up with a perfectly functioning, low-cost, and readily available item that you can sustain... you will truly have accomplished something. If you can launch said product without someone on the internet complaining of its price... then you might just be the greatest entrepreneur in history.
Quality costs. This is a fact. If anyone could do it, then the "logos" as you put it... would have no value. Instead, the logo's have value because of the total value proposition they bring to the table. Service, after the sale, as it were.
I'm not agreeing, or disagreeing with you. I'm not upset. I have no feelings about you or your statements, other than its obvious some perspective is required. I'm simply offering that perspective. I have no care if you accept it or not, because you aren't the only one here. The process of creating products such as this is not to be taken for granted, and should be rewarded. What if the magazines were $50, but did not work? Would you be happier, because you were able to buy more of the non-functioning magazines cheaper? The idea that things cost what they cost simply because they can and will gouge the customer is not realistic. Once people have attempted to manufacture and bring a product to market themselves, they will see it much differently.
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Putting the magazine patent stuff aside, I think it’s going to be a solid action.
I will likely stick with my vudoo, just because I have it already and hasn’t really left me wanting.
Will see how the pre-fits do with ammo. If it takes a ton of lot/brand testing to figure out what it likes or not.
One of the biggest perks of vudoo for me (shooting prs type .22) is I can buy a vudoo today, buy sk standard or center x, not worry about which lot, and win a match tomorrow. F class and benchrest is a different animal I’m sure.
I really liked the ultimatum as well. Same opinion on barrels as above.
And the other “big name” that released a .22......that one still needs a lot of work to be mentioned in the same sentence as the above three.
I will likely stick with my vudoo, just because I have it already and hasn’t really left me wanting.
Will see how the pre-fits do with ammo. If it takes a ton of lot/brand testing to figure out what it likes or not.
One of the biggest perks of vudoo for me (shooting prs type .22) is I can buy a vudoo today, buy sk standard or center x, not worry about which lot, and win a match tomorrow. F class and benchrest is a different animal I’m sure.
I really liked the ultimatum as well. Same opinion on barrels as above.
And the other “big name” that released a .22......that one still needs a lot of work to be mentioned in the same sentence as the above three.
i wonder if u get one mag with the barreled action? I do have an action and barrel on pre order, but couldn't get an answer on the mags
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I wonder if reading is as hard as you (u) guys make out. Or spelling and punctuation.....
www.rimxaction.com
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www.rimxaction.com Unless my memory is wrong, I was told one mag included with the RIMX action.
How did you get a barreled action? Is this the option provided by the dealer? I was told no barreled actions from ZAI.
reading comprehension 101.... he 'do have an action AND barrel on pre-order'......
Well I wish Zermatt well vudoo has set the bar so high they have some catching up to do. Competition is always a good thing! But my vudoo does everything so well I don't see how they can beat it unless it comes under less expensive. But there has to be a compromise cut somewhere to do that. I have about 4000 rounds through my vudoo now with zero malfunctions I don't know how you can top it. But I will be standing by and Hope go to turns out to be an awesome action.
Yes, but the first half his his statement says, "i wonder if u get one mag with the barreled action?", thus the inference.
Well said. Pay attention guys this is coming from someone who has actually done it, Greg knows what he is talking about...
It sound like there may be some concerns about polymer mags. What might they be?
I'm not knoking Vudoo in any way but they were not the first people to use the material or the welding process to make their magazines. It is however a very good application for their use.
Also consider this, in the past, magazines were made from steel that had very tough feed lips. My guess is that it is some high carbon spring steel. If properly chosen, polymers can be very tough and have very low coefficients of friction. I would need to look back at the choice of Aluminum that Vudoo and Zermatt have chosen but my initial question was if the brass was harder than the Aluminum that they had picked?
Hell, I wish that Zermatt would mold a magazine for $45.00
Shawn
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