- Thread starter Tango down
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Jonathan Elrod over at Modacam. I got the lead from Bison Tactical, they sell prefits that he does the chamber work on. The gentleman at BT was kind enough to share this info when I contacted them about having a customer supplied bbl chambered.
Jonathan has a background with 40x repeater conversions so it made sense with his background in rimfire. Helluva nice guy and kept excellent comms throughout the build.
THT
Jonathan Elrod did V-22 magazine conversions on two CMP-sourced 40x actions for me several years ago, not more than a year before the V-22 actions became available. Since I did the bbl work myself after receiving the actions back from Jonathan, he had no way to fully tune the extractors, as doing so requires having the bbl fitted & installed. But he spent a good long time on the phone - on his dime - explaining to me what I needed to know in order to finish tuning the extractor/pusher. And he explained it all clearly and in a way that made perfect sense to me (I'm darned sure no genius - Jonathan is a very good communicator, in addition to being someone who is very concerned with his customers' satisfaction). I believe Mike's knowledge of Jonathan's work ethic & customer care is the reason he was glad to supply the CNC programming & drawing for the magazine conversion to Jonathan. Having had dealings with both Jonathan & Mike (and the VGW crew at St. George), it's my opinion that I've never been more pleased with the experience of spending a considerable (for me) chunk of change for precision 22RF rifle projects. Customer care is a culture with all these folks, and can't be separated from their overall business model, because it's an integral part of the model. There are those who would call someone talking like this a 'fanboy', but that doesn't bother me a bit. There are plenty of shooters out there who are Modacam/V-22 'fanboys' for the same reasons.
I started buying Bighorn actions from A.J. Goddard several years before he moved production to Zermatt, and my experiences with both A.J. & Zermatt have been very similar to those with Jonathan, Mike, & VGW. My overall opinion echos something J.Bell has mentioned several times here - it's a great time to be a rimfire shooter in this country. Now if only SK & Lapua would expand ammunition production to keep up with the demand the availability of such wonderfully accurate 22RF repeaters has created....
I started buying Bighorn actions from A.J. Goddard several years before he moved production to Zermatt, and my experiences with both A.J. & Zermatt have been very similar to those with Jonathan, Mike, & VGW. My overall opinion echos something J.Bell has mentioned several times here - it's a great time to be a rimfire shooter in this country. Now if only SK & Lapua would expand ammunition production to keep up with the demand the availability of such wonderfully accurate 22RF repeaters has created....
Jonathan was great to work with as I transitioned away from the 40X project and more into the V-22. Aside from prints, CNC info, etc., the time on the phone discussing extractors and the bolt nose was invaluable to what he was able to do with the info. He's a great guy and I'd welcome any opportunity to work on another project with him....
MB
With different issues people have had relating to mating various actions to barrels etc, would the "easiest" option be to grab a barrelled action and be done with it or would I be missing out on something?
Im looking for the easiest option as its pretty hard to send a rifle back to the U.S. to take advantage of the amazing customer service if needed.
Any ideas? Am I missing the forest for the trees?
Im looking for the easiest option as its pretty hard to send a rifle back to the U.S. to take advantage of the amazing customer service if needed.
Any ideas? Am I missing the forest for the trees?
If your interest in a Vudoo then yes, I feel like you can rest easy by ordering a VGW barreled action from whomever you can get to ship to Australia. As far as the Rim X I personally think it is quite a lot more of a gamble ordering a barreled action, if your set on the Rim X you may be better off ordering just the action and have a gunsmith in Australia do the install. That way if there are issues like most of us have had (which have mostly been from either a trigger compatibility problem or a chambering problem) you can deal with it in your country.
Cheers mate, definitely leaning toward a vudoo.
There seems to be more support in Australia and I don't see myself dropping 3k+ on a barrelled action without a decent support network.
I'll be getting a smith to put it all together, I just want to keep it simple. Barrelled action/trigger/chassis = shoot
I don't get enough range time as it is so don't want to waste any time chasing issues.
I guess since this thread resurfaced I might as well give a follow up on my own RimX vs V-22 “experiment”. As I said earlier in this thread I decided to order a Rim X to see how it stacked up to the several V-22 (1st gen) rifles that myself and my family have owned (3-4 to that point) of which all have been excellent in every way. I have previously outlined my troubles with the Rim X in the earlier pages of this thread, which with the excellent help of Zermatt Arms Customer Service I was able to resolve. But honestly I still was not “overly impressed“ with the Rim X action vs the many V-22 rifles I have owned So I sold the Rim X and ordered 2 V-22 barreled actions. Both were brand new 2nd generation both with the Kukri profile and I believe both are Ace barrels one is a 20” and one is a 22” just because I wanted to test the differences (I will have a 24”-26” at some point to test as well). They were set up identical with KRG Bravo chassis, Timney 2 stage triggers, KRG spigot with an Atlas Cal bipod, and Vortex Razor GenII scopes (one of which had to be sent back to Vortex for a canted reticle, BTW Vortex CS killed it with a 4 day door to door turnaround and repair, hence the DMR II PRO in the picture).
These rifles are for my daughters as they have expressed an interest in shooting some again, the last time they were serious was like 6-7 years ago so they have had some down time. But to the point they are not exactly experienced shooters. They now have a few hundred rounds through each rifle with zero malfunctions of any kind and both rifles are showing excellent accuracy. Here are a few targets the girls have shot, all are 5 round groups at either 50 yards or 100 yards as noted and shot prone.
50 yards
100 yards
These rifles are for my daughters as they have expressed an interest in shooting some again, the last time they were serious was like 6-7 years ago so they have had some down time. But to the point they are not exactly experienced shooters. They now have a few hundred rounds through each rifle with zero malfunctions of any kind and both rifles are showing excellent accuracy. Here are a few targets the girls have shot, all are 5 round groups at either 50 yards or 100 yards as noted and shot prone.
50 yards
100 yards
That seems like a solid plan! If you have any questions please feel free to reach out as I have been down that road many times. Also once you get it up and running come join us in the 6X5 thread!
I will definitely get on the 6x5 thread asap, I have a couple CZ457 to play with in the meantime.
Itll be awhile til i complete the vudoo though, the current covid situation where I live is a giant pain in the ass, work situation is affected so $$ are a little tight as most people would be feeling.
Just makes me want it more haha.
I hear ya about the Charlie one Niner messing up the works...
I look forward to seeing your CZ's in the 6X5
I look forward to seeing your CZ's in the 6X5
I thought I'd resurrect this to share my experience. I had problems with my Rimx. Though it had nothing to do with the action, Ray had me ship the barreled action to him for examination and recommendations. Following his advice and his shop coordinating with my local gunsmith (who had never even heard of Rimx), I ended up with a perfectly functioning system. Ray is great to work with and will ensure you get your issues sorted out.
I have 2 Rim-X's that I slapped together myself with prefit barrels. They seem to work fairly well. I like the adjustable mags and the ability to change calibers with different bolt heads.
#1 is a 22lr with a Straight Jacket Armory 18" 1:14 twist
100 yard 5shot group (calipers zeroed at0.22)
#2 is a 17hmr with a Primal Rights 20"
100 yard 5 shot group (calipers zeroed at 0.17)
#1 is a 22lr with a Straight Jacket Armory 18" 1:14 twist
100 yard 5shot group (calipers zeroed at0.22)
#2 is a 17hmr with a Primal Rights 20"
100 yard 5 shot group (calipers zeroed at 0.17)
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Gents/ladies:
I'm resurrecting this thread for several reasons. There may be some better places on the Hide, but I don't know them. Please forgive me if I've goofed.
First, I'm a dead novice at long range rifle shooting, whether centerfire or rimfire. I think that to learn that, you must get behind a properly set up rifle system. Second, I think that, contrary to oft-aired opinion, the novice profits greatly from beginning with a truly precise rifle/ammunition system, one that mechanically can shoot better than they can, because with this, they know clearly how much their errors contribute to the outcome of a shot: If a really good riflist shooting from a really solid position can coax a given level of performance from the system, then that's the goal and improving the new shooter's contribution is the training task. So, third, I'm planning to order a really good rifle. It'll be a toy, a reward for an old geezer who's worked hard and earned it. That raises questions:
I think that the thread as it stands covers the equipment question. If you aren't an accomplished gun tinkerer or full-time gun-builder and don't have the baseline skills, interest, and time to become one, your best bet is to consult the folks at Vudoo and have them build what you decide on with their experienced input. I'm sure that there are advantages to RimX and others, but getting them is for people who don't mind fiddling with them. Not a down check at all, just what I conclude from preceding posts.
That leaves the question of learning how to use the rifle. I have a small shelf's worth of books, read or being read, on how to do precision shooting. I think I know that if you can "get" shooting a centerfire, which most of them discuss, you can extrapolate to a rimfire. But there are crotchets and idiosyncrasies to rimfire that, as the range stretches, raise their heads. So...once I have the gear (including lot tested ammunition--Lapua, since that's what the Vudoo Ravage chamber is designed to--and recommended substitutes), I need instruction starting a ground zero. I doubt that I'm alone amongst the readership. I live in Front Range Colorado and am willing to travel some, but closer to metro Denver is much better. Where can I get reasonable quality instruction, based on rimfire? I've done a fair amount of firearms training in my career; I know it's not inexpensive, but you pay for quality and teaching skills. Not everyone who can shoot well in a given discipline can teach it.
I have no plans to compete, though at some point I might get the bug again. But for now, satisfaction in getting some mastery of a new tool and a new skillset, as well as a place to use it within driving distance of my home, would be sufficient.
Advice? Recommendation for sources? Comments on the above conclusions and goals? I'm all ears.
Thanks in advance.
David Nissen Kahn
I'm resurrecting this thread for several reasons. There may be some better places on the Hide, but I don't know them. Please forgive me if I've goofed.
First, I'm a dead novice at long range rifle shooting, whether centerfire or rimfire. I think that to learn that, you must get behind a properly set up rifle system. Second, I think that, contrary to oft-aired opinion, the novice profits greatly from beginning with a truly precise rifle/ammunition system, one that mechanically can shoot better than they can, because with this, they know clearly how much their errors contribute to the outcome of a shot: If a really good riflist shooting from a really solid position can coax a given level of performance from the system, then that's the goal and improving the new shooter's contribution is the training task. So, third, I'm planning to order a really good rifle. It'll be a toy, a reward for an old geezer who's worked hard and earned it. That raises questions:
I think that the thread as it stands covers the equipment question. If you aren't an accomplished gun tinkerer or full-time gun-builder and don't have the baseline skills, interest, and time to become one, your best bet is to consult the folks at Vudoo and have them build what you decide on with their experienced input. I'm sure that there are advantages to RimX and others, but getting them is for people who don't mind fiddling with them. Not a down check at all, just what I conclude from preceding posts.
That leaves the question of learning how to use the rifle. I have a small shelf's worth of books, read or being read, on how to do precision shooting. I think I know that if you can "get" shooting a centerfire, which most of them discuss, you can extrapolate to a rimfire. But there are crotchets and idiosyncrasies to rimfire that, as the range stretches, raise their heads. So...once I have the gear (including lot tested ammunition--Lapua, since that's what the Vudoo Ravage chamber is designed to--and recommended substitutes), I need instruction starting a ground zero. I doubt that I'm alone amongst the readership. I live in Front Range Colorado and am willing to travel some, but closer to metro Denver is much better. Where can I get reasonable quality instruction, based on rimfire? I've done a fair amount of firearms training in my career; I know it's not inexpensive, but you pay for quality and teaching skills. Not everyone who can shoot well in a given discipline can teach it.
I have no plans to compete, though at some point I might get the bug again. But for now, satisfaction in getting some mastery of a new tool and a new skillset, as well as a place to use it within driving distance of my home, would be sufficient.
Advice? Recommendation for sources? Comments on the above conclusions and goals? I'm all ears.
Thanks in advance.
David Nissen Kahn
1) Sounds like you have made your decision as to which rifle to select, can't fault your logic. There is a lot of comfort in buying plug and play while knowing it can be sent in for any issues to a company with great customer service.
2) Front range training, you could go to one of Franks's classes up north when he has them, you will learn a lot. For beginners, Appleseed Project gives fantastic basic 2 day intro positional (standing, kneeling, sitting, prone,---- all the techniques you need for a PRS style match or traditional matches) classes in Boulder , CRC and Chatfield area about every two months. On the northside, Mile High Shooting Accessories should have some leads on long range classes and Triggertime has some info as well. NRL22 has a couple events in Colorado. Out east, Colorado Rifle Club has a long range rimfire match to 420 yards in the summer and Steel Dogs to 200 yards monthly. Down south, Hoser has some great rimfire matches in Pueblo West on a monthly basis as well. Greenmill sportsman has a tac style match during the summer too.
3) Join the supporter section which unlocks Frank's video section here on the hide, he has it all covered there.
The initial "issues" with RimX can mostly be blamed on a certain barrel maker and an improper chamber. Or more accurately, there were issues in the feed "ramp". Most of this has been fixed/solved and "tinkering" will be limited to getting the magazine to seat properly for your chassis. Not difficult and should not deter you from a RimX if that is your only concern. I shoot a Vudoo and have no plans on switching to a RimX, even though that action is so silky smooth. They both run well.
And to your point on equipment for a novice, you're absolutely right. Even more so for a novice. You can blame the shooter almost certainly whereas if you have 'questionable' equipment, you'll never know if it's an equipment or shooter problem. Get the best you can afford. This is especially true here where you can easily resell good equipment for top dollar and limited loss if you find this is not your hobby. Cheap equipment rarely sells quickly and never for even close to what you paid.
I say to actually go out and compete at matches. You'll meet people who can help you. Most are very willing to do this. You'll learn a lot for not a lot of money. Entrance fees generally range for $10 (NRL22) to $40. There's some larger matches that I've paid as much as $80, but there's always some more value there than just shooting the match. Generally you'll get a t-shirt or long sleeve sun hoody, food, and a prize from the prize table as there's usually more prizes than competitors. Though, not alway true. Some prize table are done by raffle number rather than finishing place. Or the top three places of each class gets first go, then the raffle. The experience in invaluable though. And I guarantee you'll have fun and feel part of a community. There are some egos but they are rare and most of these guys and ladies are top notch people. And lucky for you, there's plenty of .22 matches in our general area. Green Mill, Colorado Rod and Reel (NRL22), Sam's match at Colorado Rifle Club near Byers. Ben Lomond has .22 NRL as well. Otto Rd. in Cheyenne added a .22 match recently. Not sure how often they're offering it yet. This will also be a great place to find a possible instructor for formal training or at least some leads.
Come out and shoot with us. We'll have fun. And you'll probably beat me.
^^^^^^^^^^^^What @Tiger_Shilone said: Upgrade your account here to "Supporter" which I believe is $20/month which unlocks @lowlight's online training sub-forum on here. Many quality training videos that cover marksmanship fundamentals. It's a great resource and a good value.
Next come out and shoot some local .22 matches. There are lots of them here on the Front Range as has been noted, and all are low-key and welcoming to novices. You'll meet folks who know their stuff and will be happy to give you some coaching.
Good luck!
TS Customs RimX complete builds will run with anything and outrun most. You cannot compare hack builds with a complete system by a gunsmith that knows exactly what he's doing
I was in your exact same boat and I shot a ton of rimfire and honestly you don't notice some of the fundamental issues until you get to centerfire. You can notice those issues with a rimfire if you were shooting a 6lb rimfire rifle, but everyone building these rifles these days at 18-20 lbs and free recoiling off of things you won't notice the poor fundamentals as much.
The supporter videos on the site are fantastic. I watched through all of them and tried my best to emulate them. When I took the 4-day class with Frank, the evaluation went pretty well because I followed all of the videos but still the training was well worth it. There are some things that the videos didn't cover well like Bipod Height that was addressed during training.
Jumping into NRL22 and other things like that I don't think will help you build fundamentals. You might end up just building a lot of mistakes. Not that it isn't a ton of fun to just hop in and do it, but after running matches for a year, you don't get fundamentals unless following good instruction (video) or from someone who can actually teach you. You don't really get taught at a match as the squads run through pretty quickly. You might get a little bit of advice here and there but fundamentals come from repeated correct actions until you kind of get it into muscle memory. If you train bad fundamentals it takes like 5x more repetitions to undo a bad fundamental.
So if your goal is long range fundamentals, I'd just take a class. I'd get a centerfire rifle, like a Tikka Tac A1. I practiced my fundamentals at 100/200y with my centerfire as well. You'll know shooting 1moa vs 1/2moa pretty quickly as the ammo is reliable.
From there, you will know your NPOA, Trigger Pull, some basic wind, some basic trajectory. All of that can be taken into rimfire if you want to start shooting off compromised positions like tank traps and ladders etc. But you should definitely start hopping down into prone and mastering the fundamentals first imo.
All you need is a good smith or someone who is familiar and works with the action to make a great rifle with the RimX. I don’t think you can go wrong with either but the RimX is every bit as good as the Vudoo and vice versa. I personally like the magazines a lot more than the Vudoo mags.
Other than recoil control can you tell me what fundamentals you can't learn from a 22LR trainer?
Thanks in advance
Other than recoil control can you tell me what fundamentals you can't learn from a 22LR trainer?
Thanks in advance
I think recoil management is like 75% of the big issues with fundamentals since it leads to:
Natural Point of Aim,
Proper use of the Bipod,
Proper alignment of the body behind the rifle
And trigger press, definitely a lot more flinching when the guns go boom louder.
With a 22, I shot thousands of rounds on my Tikka T1X. I was doing groups on paper that were fantastic, all with the wrong fundamentals, they all looked pretty fine. Put me behind my Tikka T3X and the results were crappy. I'd shoot and have the rifle hop 2mils to the left and just didn't know how to adapt.
You can teach someone all the right things behind a 22, you can teach people all the same thing just dry firing, but if you're learning on your own through videos, the centerfire does exaggerate the poor fundamentals more. It's the same thing today in PRS matches.. you put a 24lb 6BR on the line, you can get rid of half the fundamentals too.
Not saying having a 22 is bad by all means, I have 2 Vudoo's and a Deuce and I shoot my rimfire 90% of the time, but in terms of going through training of fundamentals I learned a lot more doing it off centerfire. In terms of training for PRS, I learned a lot more on rimfire given the amount of rounds you can go through practicing on props, and learning stability in compromised positions was easier to rinse and repeat on the 22. But if the OP is just going to hop in and do prone fundamentals, then do it off a CF imo.
I haven't been shooting long, just 2 years, but that's just my experience having done both.
Folks...colleagues.
I've lurked in and out of here for several years. The stuff above is what I'd hoped for. People hereabouts seem like nice, kindly folks...a few bobbles and strong personalities notwithstanding. I'll be following up on y'all's advice and look forward to putting real names and faces to "handles" and avatars. Many thanks.
Oh...and if anybody thinks of anything else, well, as I said, I'm all ears.
And one more thing. I suspect that the answer is Frank Galli's book, but if there's a book or article set that you think is an essential prerequisite, I'd appreciate the recommendation.
Cheers and salaams,
David
I've lurked in and out of here for several years. The stuff above is what I'd hoped for. People hereabouts seem like nice, kindly folks...a few bobbles and strong personalities notwithstanding. I'll be following up on y'all's advice and look forward to putting real names and faces to "handles" and avatars. Many thanks.
Oh...and if anybody thinks of anything else, well, as I said, I'm all ears.
And one more thing. I suspect that the answer is Frank Galli's book, but if there's a book or article set that you think is an essential prerequisite, I'd appreciate the recommendation.
Cheers and salaams,
David
So...here's another question that follows from the discussion. If it belongs elsewhere, please move it to the correct site.
I can see at least arguable advantages to switch-barrel rifles, and if you're leaning toward them, pre-fit barrels would see the way to go, at least to me as a non-engineer and non-gunsmith. Might be interesting to have a discussion of pros and cons, reasons to want to swap barrels (e.g., research, such has been reported and discussed elsewhere in the rimfire section on 22 LR twists and suitable barrel lengths for various applications), and so on.
If the general topic has been fully aired out theoretically and practically elsewhere, I can't find it. Chipping in my utterly speculative judgments based on thought and not greasy hands, such a setup makes some sense in the practical/field general purpose rifle, particularly rimfire. If there were increasing numbers of matches allowing other cartridges (17 HM2, say) or other than bare lead projectiles, then being able to enter without a whole new rifle system would be appealing. And of course, that would lead to ongoing research that would be eased with barrel changeability. And rifle folks do like to fiddle with mechanical things.
How do the various systems compare (e.g., Anschütz's pinch barrel, Savage's barrel nut, screw-on, possibly others)? Advantages, disadvantages? Real world utility versus riflists' love of gadgets and mechanical quirks?
FWIW.
Cheers and salaams,
David
I can see at least arguable advantages to switch-barrel rifles, and if you're leaning toward them, pre-fit barrels would see the way to go, at least to me as a non-engineer and non-gunsmith. Might be interesting to have a discussion of pros and cons, reasons to want to swap barrels (e.g., research, such has been reported and discussed elsewhere in the rimfire section on 22 LR twists and suitable barrel lengths for various applications), and so on.
If the general topic has been fully aired out theoretically and practically elsewhere, I can't find it. Chipping in my utterly speculative judgments based on thought and not greasy hands, such a setup makes some sense in the practical/field general purpose rifle, particularly rimfire. If there were increasing numbers of matches allowing other cartridges (17 HM2, say) or other than bare lead projectiles, then being able to enter without a whole new rifle system would be appealing. And of course, that would lead to ongoing research that would be eased with barrel changeability. And rifle folks do like to fiddle with mechanical things.
How do the various systems compare (e.g., Anschütz's pinch barrel, Savage's barrel nut, screw-on, possibly others)? Advantages, disadvantages? Real world utility versus riflists' love of gadgets and mechanical quirks?
FWIW.
Cheers and salaams,
David
You should start your own thread with all of your questions, rather then taking this thread completely off topic...
I'm sure many will be happy to discuss in your own thread.
First, thanks for reading my post and being willing to help. Second, where should I put it, as I implied I was asking?
David
Practical Marksmanship Questions
Ask your Long Range Marksmanship question here. We are happy to answer any questions you can come up with when it comes to shooting a rifle at a distance.
www.snipershide.com Found this old thread today, trying to decide on rimx vs voodoo for the most accurate, most reliable 22lr going right now.
Always respected your stringent requirements in your gear.
Been almost 2 years. Curious your long term observations.
My observations have been broadcast to a live audience for almost 2 years. Not all RimX rifles are created equal. The results with our rifles speak for themselves.
50yds:
Do you need a 3-lug 60 degree throw? If so, then get a Vudoo 360. If not then...
RimX - Do you want to fool around and play with different twists and different chambers? If so then get a RimX and you can try out all your assortment of barrels, contours, and twists.
Vudoo - Do you want it to just work and you're okay with shooting Lapua ammo? Then get a Vudoo.
If you dive into the details, it comes down to 2 major points...
If you hate paying attention when you load magazines, then get a RimX. Vudoo mags take a good amount of attention when loading them to not fuck it up... especially the aluminum mags.
If you are worried that you might short stroke and zero a stage due to the captured rim bolt design on a RimX, then get a Vudoo.
For me personally, I just pay attention when I load my mags and I run a Vudoo. I also wanted a 3-lug 60 degree, so I also chose a Vudoo. I have friends who hated the Vudoo mags, and considered the RimX, but then watched a person zero a stage or try to pull a knife out of their pocket to get the rim out, and decided they'd rather deal with the Vudoo mags. And I have friends that absolutely didn't want to care about loading mags and would always choose the RimX.
I'm not saying that it happens often, probably only see it once every 2-3 matches, but for that one person that it happened to, they basically scored like a 1-2 on the stage.
When both are taken care of, they both function and shoot the same imo.
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Having owned a RimX for a little while now. I will say that it’s been flawless through thousands of rounds. Both of my brothers have shot it, my neighbors have shot it. It’s quickly racked up at a minimum of a few thousand of rounds with multiple people shooting it. The magazines are probably the most well constructed magazines I have ever used. No feeding issues. I follow X-Ring on YouTube and have heard from others as well about feeding issues with the Vudoo especially with the metal mags. Not all RimX rifles are equal and just get one from a reputable builder and you will be good to go.
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I have all thr above mentioned. Gen 1, gen 2, 360, and had a rimx. You know what I have had 0 failures or malfunctions with. Cz, bergara, vudoo. Now indont run stages. But if I did no way I would fiddle fart around trying to insert cz mags. Too small. The vudoo polymer mags I have neve hand an issue with. But, for speed and accuracy and easy of loading and reloading. Bergara gets my nod.
Just get a Rim-X!!!!
Here is the fix for short stroking it
It's called a match saver for a reason
Here is the fix for short stroking it
It's called a match saver for a reasonI appreciate it. Thanks!
Who's your builder if you don't mind me asking.
Minds been flawless as well. Up close to 8000rd fired now. Can run it as fast as physically possible. No feeding issues. Not every stock is made the same.. and proper mag height adjustment is key
To say that either manufacturer is unquestionably better than the other is impossible, for anyone to suggest otherwise is pure fanboy bias
Both have pros and cons.
As has been mentioned above, get your rifle built by a reputable shop and you should be good to go regardless of which brand you choose.
There were a couple factors that influenced my decision to go with vudoo, the most significant of which is customer service, I have no doubt whatsoever that even over here in Australia MB and the vudoo team would move heaven and earth to make things right if I ever encountered any problems.
Another is that I respect the fact that vudoo is a rimfire specific company, everything they do is geared towards enhancing all things rimfire.
Im rather particular about trying to support companies who are insanely passionate about their products and the community that uses them.
**if reliability is #1 maybe even look at a bergara. Same rem700 platform= same aftermarket parts availability, with factory reliability.
Both have pros and cons.
As has been mentioned above, get your rifle built by a reputable shop and you should be good to go regardless of which brand you choose.
There were a couple factors that influenced my decision to go with vudoo, the most significant of which is customer service, I have no doubt whatsoever that even over here in Australia MB and the vudoo team would move heaven and earth to make things right if I ever encountered any problems.
Another is that I respect the fact that vudoo is a rimfire specific company, everything they do is geared towards enhancing all things rimfire.
Im rather particular about trying to support companies who are insanely passionate about their products and the community that uses them.
**if reliability is #1 maybe even look at a bergara. Same rem700 platform= same aftermarket parts availability, with factory reliability.
The current rifle is a keystone but I also have one on order through Kenny at Desert Precision Gunworks. My brother likes it so much he wanted one so he is buying this one. Nothing against Keystone as I love the rifle but after seeing Ray rave about the Desert Precision I wanted to give him a try. The Keystone was literally plug and play into the MPA chassis. No fiddling whatsoever. I also have a Bergara B14r and there was a lot of playing around with it to get it to work. I have an element 4.0 chassis on order for the Bergara so I will see how that goes. The RimX that I currently have isn’t ammo picky at all from what I can tell. I have shot SK Rifle match, SK standard, RWS rifle match, Eley Target with zero issues. I would like to get some CenterX to try but every time someone says it’s in stock at a decent price, it gets sold out before I get to it.
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Idea + design + POC + fire a shit ton of rounds through it then figure out how to manufacture it + customer support. I can’t agree more with this post! My favorite is ”why doesn’t someone just 3D print it?” There’s a lot that goes in to bringing something to market.
I agree with TBS and orkans comment.
I call it the Amazon effect, people think that because they can buy cheap Chinese made shit in bulk that is perfectly acceptable for use in other areas of their lives that such disregard for QC and R&D translates to a semi custom firearms system.
People have been desensitised to paying for quality by mass produced, cheap junk
I think that the best investment for a new shooter is a good qualified instructor at a class. I came to precision shooting via my department. We were issued Accuracy Internationals with a good scope. I learned a lot those first years. The problem I had was all the shooting we did was 200 yards or less with the occasional 300 yard shot at a competition. My other draw back was the administration at my department was very strict about the rifle. I could only shoot at our range or at an approved school or competition.
Since I wanted to get into longer distances, I purchased my own rifle. Nothing really special as I was a working cop at the time and money was tight. A good local gunsmith set me up with a Howa 1500 barreled action in a good stock. I got a deal on a used Nightforce scope and I was set.
The best money I spent was on a class taught by a retired military sniper instructor. The first day he made sure our rifles were set up correctly and chronographed them so we could start getting dope. He also shot each of our rifles personally to make sure they shot at least 1 MOA. He shot two groups with my rifle and told me it was good. The groups were close to half MOA at 100 yards.
The advantages of this were immeasurable. As I went along learning the fundamentals, I knew I had a good rifle. That told me probably any error was me. I could trust that rifle. I think a good accurate rifle, not necessarily a custom rifle is very important for a new shooter to learn on. Most important is hands on instruction with a good teacher. Books and videos are great for information. Having someone that can actually watch you shoot and correct and explain things on the spot is even better.
I shoot a lot of rimfire these days. I have a Bergara and a Vudoo. I think the Vudoo is a bit more accurate than the Bergara but both are fine rifles. I have competed in NRL22 and PRS Rimfire matches with both and have even won a trophy a couple matches. I am a big believer it is the indian and not the arrow. There is another local Georgia boy that shoots a Savage rifle and scope that would qualify for the production category and he finishes in the top five overall at every match I have seen him at.
I have been fortunate enough to have had classes with good instructors that did their best to teach me to be a good indian. If you are new to shooting, get some books. Get a good rifle. But most importantly try to get some good hands on instruction. Vudoo, RimX, etc, etc. None of that matters if you cant shoot in the first place.
Since I wanted to get into longer distances, I purchased my own rifle. Nothing really special as I was a working cop at the time and money was tight. A good local gunsmith set me up with a Howa 1500 barreled action in a good stock. I got a deal on a used Nightforce scope and I was set.
The best money I spent was on a class taught by a retired military sniper instructor. The first day he made sure our rifles were set up correctly and chronographed them so we could start getting dope. He also shot each of our rifles personally to make sure they shot at least 1 MOA. He shot two groups with my rifle and told me it was good. The groups were close to half MOA at 100 yards.
The advantages of this were immeasurable. As I went along learning the fundamentals, I knew I had a good rifle. That told me probably any error was me. I could trust that rifle. I think a good accurate rifle, not necessarily a custom rifle is very important for a new shooter to learn on. Most important is hands on instruction with a good teacher. Books and videos are great for information. Having someone that can actually watch you shoot and correct and explain things on the spot is even better.
I shoot a lot of rimfire these days. I have a Bergara and a Vudoo. I think the Vudoo is a bit more accurate than the Bergara but both are fine rifles. I have competed in NRL22 and PRS Rimfire matches with both and have even won a trophy a couple matches. I am a big believer it is the indian and not the arrow. There is another local Georgia boy that shoots a Savage rifle and scope that would qualify for the production category and he finishes in the top five overall at every match I have seen him at.
I have been fortunate enough to have had classes with good instructors that did their best to teach me to be a good indian. If you are new to shooting, get some books. Get a good rifle. But most importantly try to get some good hands on instruction. Vudoo, RimX, etc, etc. None of that matters if you cant shoot in the first place.
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