• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Rifle Scopes What can you do with a PVS-14?

fairdebtlawyer

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
The tactical problem here on the farm is about a squillion feral hogs tearing up our crops, mostly at night. We might be able to swing a PVS-14, which is less than $4,000 from reputable shops, since the hogs are doing more than $4,000 of damage. I have an M4gery (Colt 6920) and a DPMS LR-308. Questions:

You do have to mount a PVS-14 between your eye and the day optic, right? (not in front of the day optic like a PVS-22)

Do you need an illuminated reticle in conjunction with a PVS-14?

If you're wearing a PVS-14 as a monocular on your shooting eye, can you roll over and look directly through the optic, or do you need a laser?

Speaking of lasers, for some reason the IR lasers seem to be restricted, so can you use a regular visible laser with NV?

Thanks a whole lot for any help or suggestions.
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

I'd check with Victor over at TNVC (Tactical Nightvision). He's a member here maybe he will chime in. Good guy!
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

the pvs-14 is a multi use monocular that has to be mounted behind your day scope. The problem there is if you have it mounted on a rifle that has much recoil it will bust your eye wide open,but you can hold it away from your eye a little bit and still make the shot. I have a multi use monocular and ive had mine mounted on head gear before walking around with my .308, i saw a hog and didnt have time to mount it on my rifle so i just held my rifle up to the mum and blasted him. It hurt pretty bad but hey i got the hog! A regular visible laser will not work with night vision because its way too bright,and its not good for the unit. Hope this helps
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Surgeon-Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the pvs-14 is a multi use monocular that has to be mounted behind your day scope. The problem there is if you have it mounted on a rifle that has much recoil it will bust your eye wide open,but you can hold it away from your eye a little bit and still make the shot. I have a multi use monocular and ive had mine mounted on head gear before walking around with my .308, i saw a hog and didnt have time to mount it on my rifle so i just held my rifle up to the mum and blasted him. It hurt pretty bad but hey i got the hog! A regular visible laser will not work with night vision because its way too bright,and its not good for the unit. Hope this helps </div></div>

An option here is a forward rail like the McCann. Im a dealer for Night Vision depot..(NVDepot.com)
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

As already stated, behind the optic.

A question with an alternative. What yardage will yon pigs be waiting to become targets? If you are looking at say, 100 or in, with either rifle mentioned, an Eotech mounted as far as you can put it on the reciever, then mount the 14 behind it as close as you can put it. No shooters eyebrow then.

I use this set up on my duty rifle and it works jam up. We use the LaRue mount for the 14 BTW. Don't get hung up on getting a IR Eotech, cause turning it down to it lowest setting will work fine if you use a "standard" model. An Aimpoint in a cantilever (sp?) mount will be slick same as the Eotech.

YMMV
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

hey goldie, are you saying that there is a way to mount a mum in front of a day scope??
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

Here is an option:

Run a railed handguard on the DPMS or the M4.
Setup your day optic in QD rings, LaRue mount, etc.
Zero the day optic as you normally would.
Get a QD mount for the PVS-14.
With your Day optic zero RECORDED, unmount the Day optic and move it forward. Mount the PVS-14 behind it at appropriate eye relief.
Zero and record that zero in your databook DO NOT RESET YOUR TURRETS.

Now when you want to shoot in the day, pull the -14, scoot the optic back and set your day zero. At night, do the opposite.

Not an elegant solution, but it works.

However I would just opt for a PVS-22.
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Surgeon-Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hey goldie, are you saying that there is a way to mount a mum in front of a day scope?? </div></div>

No. What I was saying is that if you use an adapter (like the one Victor can sell you for under $200)to mount the 14 behind the day scope the whole package becomes really long and as one post stated above can cause problems...like a broken nose or cut eye. With a forward rail like the McCann, or the forward rail on an M1A Scout, you have more room to place the unit(s) further forward eliminating that problem and the sever neck bend. there are other drawbacks however like narrow fieldof view, and quite a bit of graininess. Thats why I have setttled on an ACOG. For longer range or more pricise shot placement use a PVS-22. With one of those you can hit a cigarette pack out to 2-300 yds in strong starlight or further in 1/4 moon.
grin.gif
Unfortunately they run around $7500 or more.
sick.gif


I guess this would apply mostly to larger calibers. Any M4 configuration with a rail in front would work.
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is an option:

Run a railed handguard on the DPMS or the M4.
Setup your day optic in QD rings, LaRue mount, etc.
Zero the day optic as you normally would.
Get a QD mount for the PVS-14.
With your Day optic zero RECORDED, unmount the Day optic and move it forward. Mount the PVS-14 behind it at appropriate eye relief.
Zero and record that zero in your databook DO NOT RESET YOUR TURRETS.

Now when you want to shoot in the day, pull the -14, scoot the optic back and set your day zero. At night, do the opposite.

Not an elegant solution, but it works.

However I would just opt for a PVS-22. </div></div>

Me too, except those are $10,000+ and out of the question. I've heard of your solution too, and it's inelegant, but when you gotta you gotta.

Ranges at the farm go from knifepoint to 800m. We have 1100 acres that vary from thick woods to open fields or tall corn depending on time of year. The field where I've gotten all 6 kills so far is about 300x500m. Here's one I ambushed at maybe 13m when she was trotting out to destroy some more of our wheat, one hit one kill with 5.56mm M193.

P1000979.jpg


Two days before that, I stalked to within 100m (easy when they can't see too well) of three grownups and at least five piglets, achieved standard sitting position, and shot one of the grownups. They all ran back in the woods and I thought I missed, but a couple days later I checked the treeline and heard a bunch of flies buzzing and smelled something big and dead, so I guess I am not as bad as I thought.

Now they're a little shy about coming out in the sun. What I want to do is patrol at night and catch them in the open when possible at ranges under 100m, or go into the woods when they won't show. We also are going to put up some stands where I can see up to 500m. I think that's a bit far for night vision. I've since changed the standard handguards for a rail with VFG and SureFire 9P with red filter, but I haven't actually seen any hogs at night, and I can barely see the iron sights in the red light.

Some other questions I thought of:

Since my rifles have collapsible stocks, can I mount the day optic where the eye relief will be correct with the stock forward, and at night, extend the stock all the way out and put on the NV?

When mounting NV behind the optic, is there a maximum magnification it'll work with?

Would my Bushnell 3200 10x fixed work with NV? I hope so, it's very cost-effective.

If not, are there any day optics particularly good for NV? I used to have a Short Dot and would love to get another S&B but don't know if it's in the budget.

Again, thanks for all the help, past present and future.

ps. those who think the classic sitting position is only for the KD HP range, are wrong. At least when the grass is tall.
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

I have a dedicated NV scope (4x, Gen 3 Pinnacle) for my "SPR" with one of HateCA's modified ARMS mount. It works very well and returns to zero, so I can switch between it and my Mark 4 10x Leupold in a Larue mount.

pig9-1.jpg


He was trotting along about 30 minutes before daylight.
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

A S&B and a good spot light works pretty well to.
2007_0104Image0037.jpg

I suggest a tower blind and pile of corn.
And a spot you can use while shooting.
dave
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

Then theres always the Texas boy's solution....hang a bottle of Tannerite above where they feed and light em up a herd at aa time.
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

The best way to do this with a PVS-14 is to se aside 1 rifle, mount up the PVS-14 first with the proper distance and all that.

Then mount up your day scope in-front of it with a 0 MOA base or tall rings that work.

Then ZERO the optic as a night sight.

This rifle will be your night rifle ONLY until all the pig's are gone.

I have found this to be the best setup.

John
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

In that case, would I be better off with a dedicated NV weaponsight like a D-760?

I would really like the capability of being able to walk around at night with NV and shoot what I see that needs to be shot, since the hogs like to stay under cover most of the time and we have several fields under attack. If I go to one and can't find hogs, I'd like to go to another the same night, or if I kill something in one field and spook the rest of the hogs in the immediate area, I'd like to go to another field and get some more. If the only NV I have is stuck on the rifle, it would seem hard to find my way around in the dark. Which is why I asked if there's a laser system available for the rifle that I can see when wearing a PVS-14 as a monocular.

But for those who have done a lot of night hog hunting, is it better to just stay put and wait for them to come to you? I'd rather avoid feederlights because we already have over 500 acres planted in bait! (corn) We don't want to put out extra food and attract MORE hogs, we want to annihilate the hogs we have already!
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Norwiscutter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check this out:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=18&t=273304

Might be an option for you. </div></div>

Great. Looks like I could get in a BUNCH or trouble with this
grin.gif
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

Since you have an M4, just mount an EOTECH slightly forward, you will need a forearm rail, then mount the 14 behind it w/ the Larue mount. You will still be able to use your Eotech w/o the 14, without the need to move it. It works fine mounted slightly forward (half on the upper and half on the forearm rail).
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

Thought I would chime in, sorry it took awhile I just spotted the post.

While we do not recommend a PVS-14 on anything larger than a 6.8, MANY folk still use it on a .308 (MAX) with good results. As posters above indicated, you can use our PVS-14 universal adapter on the back of a qaulity day scope. A few disadvantages were talked about that include if you do not move your scope forward, your cheek weld will be back an additional 4" and will probably require a riser of some sort. Moving your scope forward to maintain the same cheek weld will require you to move your scope forward as I depict in the pic below. This of course requires you have enough rail space on your gun and your day zero will change. Useful magnification with good glass and a PVS-14 is in the 6-8x region. Anything more will require the use of a IR illuminator. This is a big asset even at lower magnification in extremely dark conditions. Also, mounting a PVS-14 in front of the day optic does NOT work in 99% of all cases. The PVS-14 is not optically aligned to work with most all day scopes in this fashion. You will get severe POA/POI shifts using this technique. That is what the PVS-22 is used for, but indeed they come at a price of 7500K+ for the civilian BNS model of the 22.

Using a EO and/or Aimpoint in front of the PVS-14 is also a good option and one can run a 3x magnifier onto the lens of the 14 for good hits out to 200-300 yards.

When it's all said and done, one has to ask themselves what true range you want to engage at? At that point you then have to ask if you want to point your gun to look at everything or do you want the versatility of weapon mounting and/or head mounting. If you need long range out to 500 yards and do not mind looking through your rifle at all times and want the best NV viewing, a dedicated NV rifle scope is what you might need. There is no substitute for a good dedicated NV scope in regards to optical qaulity to say the least. Even compared to a PVS-22, the overall optical resolution of a dedicated system is hard to beat. I wish we could have ONE system that is a perfect match for all our needs...Since we do not, one has to decide what their mission dictates and purchase the best tool for the job at hand. For some lucky ones, the absolute best set up I find is a head mounted PVS-14 with a dedicated NV weapon scope and a IR laser. With this setup I can scan for targets with my 14, shoot if need be from the high ready while letting my IR laser do all the talking or I can flip my 14 up outta the way and go to my NV rifle scope. It doesn't much better than that for true night work! :)

In closing, as stated, one must really understand the environment and requirements they are going to shoot in and choose whats best for them. Hope this help.

Vic

PVS-14 Universal Adapter with a Leupy
PICT0028.jpg


Typical view with a PVS-14 through a Leupy. Far target at 200m.
UNI-ADAPTER-14B.jpg



PVS-14 and EO 551 (Not produced any longer but typical of what you will see through the reticle of any NV Compatible EO.)
PICT0739.jpg


EO Tech 551 with 3x Mil-Spec Magnifier through the tube. Chimney at approx 75 yards away.
PICT0747.jpg
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

If you use an illuminated reticle you run a high risk of burning the image intensifier tube, although it does look pretty cool...
IMG_3861.jpg

Get some QD rings (ARMS#22 work well) and then you can get a zero with your optic mounted forward...mark your pic.rail there so you can move the day scope for day/night shooting.
IMG_1564.jpg

See how far forward I have my scope with the PVS14/monoloc mounted...I could probably still stand to move it further forward for better eye-relief, but you get the idea.
IMG_3854.jpg

IR lasers are nice
grin.gif
but not necessary. I would recommend one of Victor's IR illuminators called "Da'Torch"...it illuminates far better than a PEQ2 or PEQ15 illuminator on high power.
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

I need to resurrect this thread to clarify on a question I have. So you DO have to have ill ret. in the scope in order to run pvs14?

Doorkicker stated you stand a chance of damaging tube by running ill ret. So I'm confused.
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

The illum scopes need to be on a very low power to prevent damage to the tube but illum is a must in my opinion
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

Anyone know what the average lifespan is for a 3rd gen tube? I'm a total NV newbie but I've always wanted one.
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

I've heard 10,000+ hrs but I'm like you I know next to zero about NV
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

brut4c- ill will try to answer your questions and hopefully not cause anymore confusion for you.
Pvs-14's can be used on both illuminated reticles and regular tpye ones. Note to make sure the illuminated model you are using has a adjustable reticle gain to account for nv, or a nv mode(ir). If the illumination is too high you run the risk of burning a image in your tube, you will know real fast as you litterally can watch it burn in and more times than not it will be right dead center.
GIII life span 10k+ hours, but i would expect more, heck there is still guys using PVS-2's that are still getting the job done.

Hope that helps some.
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

A PVS14 can be mounted in front of a day optic like a PVS22.

The scope will need to be on low power. (6x or less)
You will need to adjust the focus on both to achieve a clear sight picture, but it works suprisingly well.

I put mine infront of a 1.5-5x Leupold Vari XIII mounted on an AR15 using a Armalite scope mount for the scope and a LaRue mount for the NV or the issued mount that screws on.
P1020329.jpg
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

Thanks for clearing that up. I assume with a non illum ret. its just more difficult to see the ret.?
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

It's a tuff shot to get leaning on a fence, but
P1020335.jpg

P1020334.jpg


The actual image in the scope is much better and if you spend a little time fine tuning it gets pretty clear.

 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's a tuff shot to get leaning on a fence, but
P1020335.jpg

P1020334.jpg


The actual image in the scope is much better and if you spend a little time fine tuning it gets pretty clear.

</div></div>

IGNORE what RAD says.

You cannot run a PVS-14 in front of a day optic. Think about it. If a PVS-14 worked the same as a PVS-27 or PVS-22 why would anyone pay twice as much?

The problem with the mounting the PVS-14 in front of a day optic, is that what you see is not necessarily what you get. See how the picture has the cross hairs at the horse's ass? Well in actuality the crosshairs might be aiming at the horses head, or above it? The PVS-14 moves the image plane.

There is a reason the US Military has been mounting their PVS-14's behind their day optics and moving their day optics forward on the SPR's.

RAD is wrong.
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's a tuff shot to get leaning on a fence, but

The actual image in the scope is much better and if you spend a little time fine tuning it gets pretty clear.

</div></div>

IGNORE what RAD says.

You cannot run a PVS-14 in front of a day optic. Think about it. If a PVS-14 worked the same as a PVS-27 or PVS-22 why would anyone pay twice as much?

The problem with the mounting the PVS-14 in front of a day optic, is that what you see is not necessarily what you get. See how the picture has the cross hairs at the horse's ass? Well in actuality the cross hairs might be aiming at the horses head, or above it? The PVS-14 moves the image plane.

There is a reason the US Military has been mounting their PVS-14's behind their day optics and moving their day optics forward on the SPR's.

RAD is wrong. </div></div>

To expound just a bit on the running a 14 in front of a day optic. People do it all the time. I have seen a number of Marines run a 14 in front of the RCOs in country. It is not optimal at all. POA and POI shifts will occur. BachelorJack is 100% correct in that, what you are looking at through an Image Intensified device is slightly off.

http://www.nightvision.com/microsites/nightvision_works/nv_works.html

This is from the ITT website and it shows a somewhat simplified version of what is going on in an Image tube. BUT it shows very clearly the small angle of the honeycomb of the Micro Chanel Plate (MCP) what they refer to as the wafer thin dic. The angle shown is intentional to lengthen out the channel just a bit to get more amplification. As such what you are seeing in the eyepiece is slightly off. JUST a little but enough to cause the afore mentioned POA/POI issues.

The PVS 22 that does mount in front of a day optic corrects this shift optically and is optimized for use in front of a day optic. Alas they are expensive. Mine (BNS) cost more than my last used car...

So to answer the original question the PVS 14 is best suited behind a day optic and in my opinion behind an Aimpoint. I run my 14 behind an M4s in a GG&G mount. This allows use of the Aimpoint 3X during the day and the 14 (with the 3X if I want it) at night. This set up gives a very versatile 1X or 3X, day or night.


IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

Why go through all this trouble to adapt pvs14 to day scopes ? simplest way to use the pvs14 is to just Helmet mount it and run an EO on your modular upper with either a Vortex or Suppressor for flash hide. "Simple as that". then get IR supplement for image enhancement. supplement is an agreed upon 'must' for any NV anyway
With a good quality pvs14 on your head your are moving on your feet and Hunting smooth. No Panning the weapon all night in search of the target. Just find them and get goin & 'physically walk/Stalk yourself ' into a decent shooting distance. Good hit is Way Easy from 200 yrd to ten yards with a flat shooting .223 with 100 yard zero set on your optics or using a .308 or anything else that has a good Vel..
After some hours behind one it is just more natural and easy.You are just moving in the dark so much more smoothly and quietly with quality pvs14 on your head
.
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

why dont you

1) arrange some delicious food for hogs, place dim light source there too. They'll get used to it, sooner or later.
2) observe and add food when needed
3) buy beer and invite as many friends with rifles as possible
4) arrange night ambush
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

A 5 inch rail extension raised up my EO-Tech to make it just right. It also gave me enough rail to get the right eye relief on the PVS 14. I use the 308 EO-Tech with the ballistic reticle. Its good to 300 yards on my 6.5 Grendel

Here is a pic of it mounted on the Grendel. As other posters have said, you dont NEED night vision to hunt hogs. If you setup a feeder and install lights, you can use your existing scope. I recommend getting a suppressor first!

3844720148_f39d61d3bb_o.jpg
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

Do the ones you guys run have the single battery mod. on them?

I know the Corps put out a mod. a little while back which converted their royal ass-load of AN/PVS-14s to run on 1 AA instead of 2.
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

good link off the AR15.com . There is a big pit of dumbass there but a few guys there are pretty resourceful & knowledgeable. You get some good info off there ' once in a while' .
They had a link a while back on 910nm IR Diode change-out from a cheaper laser pointer like using a Beamshot with presure-pad switch and junking the red laser diode in it, then replace with a 910nm IR Diode. MOST Excellent Thread.. I bought 3 Diodes, focused them in & did 3 change-outs to Beamshot body's from that thread and they worked great with minimal bloom and good power range.
.
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

I did the $75 laser diode mod of an inexpensive Beamshot laser, as described at arf. No significant issues have been encountered by doing so. Yet...

Just shove this:
Alltronics904nmIRlaserdiode.jpg


..into this:
100_0765.jpg
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">why dont you

1) arrange some delicious food for hogs, place dim light source there too. They'll get used to it, sooner or later.
2) observe and add food when needed
3) buy beer and invite as many friends with rifles as possible
4) arrange night ambush

</div></div>

Haha.....I'm going out and gonna build a 10 person shooting house just for this.
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

Ya I was surprised that the 910nm diode was as good as it is. There is just a tiny bit of bloom compared to the 800 range of diode but I am not sure if that is just not a crisp focus of dot like on a quality high-$ IR unit or just the sacrificial lens in the cheep Beamshot being low quality that the IR laser pushes through ? The dot is pretty Good To Go. and you get plenty of range.
Only thing with a low-$ set-up like this is it will not take heavy recoil well as the battery in the IR body has a tendency to end-up eventually pounding the Diode spring @ point of contact.
I did make a rubber buffer to ride in-between the Diode spring and battery and that helps out. But If you are shooting subsonic/suppressed on anything there is not to much recoil to speak of. I put one of those on a .22 pistol suppressed and a .22 rifle suppressed also. To use with the pvs14 @ 50 yard and under real quiet. I have had No problem what so ever with POI changes but The Beamshots take a little fiddling to get the POI co-witnessed with your sights or scope. Just take a tiny dab of Lock-Tight on the 3 diode set screws and it stays good. I think the most recoil I would put on it, would be a nice suppressed AR but just check the co-witness of the dot before you get set-out on hunting for peace of mind. For a home modified IR Laser set-up like this that is just under 200-$ you really can not bitch too much. & it does work well.
.
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

I believe that it is indeed the sacrificial lens on the host Beamshot laser that is causing the majority of the apparent beam distortion.

They hint at this in the instruction manual. I'm tempted to just remove the thing, but that would cause its own issues (no more sacrificial lens).
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

in the photo that Victor-TNVC posted on 7-12-09, headed "PVS-14 Universal Adapter with a Leupy" what is the mount used on the 14 to attach it to the scope.
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

Sorry if this is a stupid question but what is the difference between a PVS-22 and PVS-27?

Also, what are reliable nightvision brands?

Thanks guys.
 
Re: What can you do with a PVS-14?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cartman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry if this is a stupid question but what is the difference between a PVS-22 and PVS-27?

Also, what are reliable nightvision brands?

Thanks guys. </div></div>

For PVS27:

The MUNS gathers twice as much light as the AN/PVS-22 Universal Night Sight (UNS) and can be used against targets at 1.5 times the range of the AN/PVS-22. The unit is installed, operated, and removed without tools and without affecting boresight (permanent boresight alignment). The unit can be mounted on a spotting scope for long range reconnaissance, hand-held as a Night Observation Device (NOD), or used in other night-time operations requiring night vision capabilities.

The MUNS is revolutionary when used with a high magnification fixed or variable power dayscope. The magnification is provided by the dayscope, which typically has much smaller optics than those associated with normal 4X or 6X night vision weaponsights. This means there is no loss in system gain or typical f/number loss associated with large optics. Variable magnification dayscopes can actually zoom in (up to 20X) and still retain the same gain with only a slight loss in resolution.