What does your average 100 yard group look like?

[Campguy308]

I'm not talking about with your best load. I'm talking about across the board average 5 shot groups using various bullets and powder charges (such as during load development) from different shooting sessions on different days. It seems that I want to expect bug hole groups with most loads every day, but I'd say most loads I test in various bolt guns (factory and custom barreled rigs) run around .75" to 1", with the very few best loads shooting below .5", and the occasional load that bug holes. I realize this depends a lot on cartridge selection, reloading techniques, etc, but what does everyone else experience at 100 yards from day to day?

 

[Wildcat78]

I have a few rifles that can shoot sub. 25moa but I on the other hand can't shoot better then. 5 moa every day. I would say me and my rifles can shoot half moa out to 500 yards everyday and that opens up past 500. Some days I'm a. 25 moa shooter but on average its half moa.

 

[Campguy308]

Are you talking about with any random load, or your pet loads?

 

[hafejd30]

I agree with Wildcat. I have guns that are honest .25 and .5 MOA shooters. But it depends on the day. I would say the guns that are 1/2 MOA are occasional 1/4 MOA shooters. The 1 MOA guns are 1/2 MOA occasionally.

With pet loads

 

[Ranger188]

My current 6br is my best average shooting stick I've had.
Even screwing around and loading for different things, it's a .5 shooter.
On average .3 on my best days .1-.2 and a few times sub .1

 

[wade2big]

I respect the man that can make first round hits more often than not than the man that can put bullet holes in paper that touch each other more often than not.

 

[Campguy308]

My current 6br is my best average shooting stick I've had.
Even screwing around and loading for different things, it's a .5 shooter.
On average .3 on my best days .1-.2 and a few times sub .1

Tell me more about this stick

 

[gunsnjeeps]

20 rounds slow fire prone in a 4 inch circle. Best was an inch and a half.

Same rifle and ammo on a rest 3/4 inch.

 

[Supersubes]

I think I speak for hide correctly when I say we shoot .249 moa groups all day long, when we do our part.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

And I laugh with all due respect.

 

[Cjl2010]

Typical 5er... all day long

 

[Steel head]

I think I speak for hide correctly when I say we shoot .249 moa groups all day long, when we do our part.

I shoot at least twice as good as that.
.498 all day.

Three shots of course.

 

[Ledzep]

Factory match is realistically .6-.8" at 100 for 10 shots most of the time. My reloads will do .4-.7 for 10 shots.

I'm sure a guy could fiddle with it and get better but it's certainly in the land of diminishing returns. And sure, I've shot a bunch of .2-.4" 5-shot groups but can it be done on command every single time?

No. Probably not. And statistically speaking, 5 shot groups mean almost nothing. 10 is my compromise between realistic expectations and ammo consumption. Plug 20 shots into a single group once... Then re-evaluate your hit probability at range.

 

[morganlamprecht]

day to day, any random load...typically .75-1moa at the worst, any bullets shoot worse than that and i probably wont mess with them again

a lot depends on where youre shooting also....my local 100 yd range usually has wind blowing 10-20 mph, wind also blowing the backer board around, and its hot af with a ton of mirage most of the time....nothing ideal for shooting small groups consistently

also take anyone on the internet who aint putting numbers on a scoreboard somewhere with a big grain of salt lol

 

[Cerwinski]

Depends on how well I do my part. If I'm on my game 1/3-1/2 MOA. If I'm slacking could go over an inch. The bad thing is I'm too new at this to know WHEN I'm slacking lol. But its getting better as I go. I'm getting to the point when I can call a bad shot most of the time.

 

[Anthonyc]

Consistently I can get 1/4 a 1/2 inch 5 shot groups on My 6.5 cm Bergara LRP Elite, using 2 loads I have chosen. Load development which I’ve done a lot in this rifle, ranges from 1/4 inch to 2 inch groups. My howa 1500 6mm cm, which I’m in the middle of load development with, has been 1/2 inch to inch 1 1/2 groups. I’ve only shot 100 rounds with it though.

 

[Lunchbox27]

My avg? 3/4 moa

the ones I put online? 1/4" with the caption "All day long, if I do my part"

 

[Temper]

Last time I shot groups at 100 with a load I knew was good on 1/2” pasters. The top center was a ladder I shot with a different rifle. Having a harder time shooting consistently with my new barrel, though. During load development I pretty much never get groups bigger than .75".

 

[lash]

I'm not talking about with your best load. I'm talking about across the board average 5 shot groups using various bullets and powder charges (such as during load development) from different shooting sessions on different days. It seems that I want to expect bug hole groups with most loads every day, but I'd say most loads I test in various bolt guns (factory and custom barreled rigs) run around .75" to 1", with the very few best loads shooting below .5", and the occasional load that bug holes. I realize this depends a lot on cartridge selection, reloading techniques, etc, but what does everyone else experience at 100 yards from day to day?

Pretty much this.^^^
I have pictures of the occasional bug hole five shot group, but those are few and far between. For starters, I don’t shoot that many groups.

I think that I may someday put together a 6 BR, as I have been impressed with what I’ve seen them do.

 

[brianf]

308 FGMM 175 (prob shot the most over the years)

i have shot smaller etc

.4< >.6-7"

thats over a lot of years and groups

i dont think my hold is much better than that

 

[mark5pt56]

AI AT in 6.5cm, it's me trying to outshoot the gun. Normally I will hover around 1/2" Get the good days and have a BFD (almost 1 hole) and on the worst ones, 3/4" Pretty much on any precision rifle, under 1" and it's a good day.

 

[skatz11]

I’d say 3/4” for me. It’s amazing how difficult this can be. Over the years I’ve learned to be able to call/feel a bad trigger press.

I know when I’m dialed in and stacking them nicely. Bottom line I need to do this more often.

After listing to Frank’s interview with Adam Cloaninger I decided to try some 10 shot groups in load development. After analyzing the process I think there is a lot of good things you can learn from shooting 10 shot groups.

Quick Summary: you can evaluate shooter, rifle and ammo all at once.

Detailed Thoughts:

I always considered it more of a test of shooter fundamentals. This is true, but if you are honest with yourself you can get some great data and learn about not only yourself but the accuracy potential for your rifle.

Pairing this with a magneto speed on a MK machine mount also allowed me to get more data to get confidence in my load. Ten rounds is still a small sample size, but it’s better than five.

In this 10 rounds group I honestly called 7 good shots. The three outside we’re a combination of rushed trigger pulls and not a perfect shooting position.



If I screwed up shooting a 5 shot group I wouldn’t have the 7 good shots stacked up.

Here’s the chrono data. It looks like a consistent and good shooting load. I’ll shoot a few more to verify.


Rifle Setup (shown on bench, shot prone with Atlas in 90deg position with rear bag support)

The chrono mount on the spigot makes it really front heavy.

 

[TACC]

Typical 5er... all day longView attachment 7120050

Wow, that's crazy good, you dont go through to many targets shooting that kind of a group, just pick a different square each time.

 

[brianf]

^^^ as far as targets go
i usually just shoot a single round or find a staple/scrap paper on the target board
ill either hold off or dial off and use the same aiming spot

if going somewhere new i have a roll of duct tape that i sharpie dots on every 1" or so
cheap, sticks everywhere, and always in my bag

 

[theLBC]

 

[M8541Reaper]

View attachment 7121439

Dropping truth bombs

 

[Cjl2010]

^^^ as far as targets go
i usually just shoot a single round or find a staple/scrap paper on the target board
ill either hold off or dial off and use the same aiming spot

if going somewhere new i have a roll of duct tape that i sharpie dots on every 1" or so
cheap, sticks everywhere, and always in my bag

Lol same thing I do. That was a single bullet hole that I just zoomed in on. These are pretty standard targets that are left behind at the range I shoot at so I take a picture of what’s been shot and carry on. Unless shooting for zero I dial 1-2 minutes all around aiming point.

My standard group is about 3/4 minute cold shooter to 1/2-5/8 minute warm shooter.

 

[bourbonbent]

It really depends mostly on me. The gun is consistent. Some days I shoot better than others, some days I can’t get my shit together and shoot a bit bigger. I haven’t started loading for this one yet, just factory.

On a pretty average day, 10 shots with FGMM 168 average mid .5’s to high .6’s. 5 shots average high .4’s to high .5’s. The 3 shots in the .2’s I consider flukes with factory ammo off a bipod. Haven’t shot it off a rest yet.

I’m cheap with targets.

On a really bad day, such as when you have the guy next to you shooting his braced 7” 5.56 binary triggered contraption as fast as he can until he ND’s it into the concrete in front of the benches til his ACOG pops off and lands on the bench, .9’s for a 10 shot. I wish I was making that one up.

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

This is pretty much my standard 100 yard group whether using factory or hand loads now.....

This group is hand load development. Gun is a Savage 10 FCP-SR in 6.5 Creedmoor in an MDT chassis with XLR Extreme Buttstock and Athlon optics. Fired from a bench using a rear bag and an Atlas bipod. Basically I'm shooting consistent .7 - .5 MOA 5 round groups rain or shine, hot or cold, factory or hand loads. I thought I was improving/getting a smaller group size through load development but after shooting my best hand load against Hornady Factory 147 gr. ELD-M's I found both to be just like the group above. Mainly hand loading now to save a few $ and get exactly what I want. I'm a Whore for building precision ammunition...I just like building my own fodder.

VooDoo

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

Wanted to add that the Gun shoots better than I do. If I can positively eliminate that *one* fucking flyer I always seem to have I'll be shooting one hole ragged holes at 100.

I think it's parallax or old age. Maybe....

VooDoo

 

[Sheldon N]

On average with my match guns probably 0.5MOA for 5 shot groups. During load development I'll see some groups that are up closer to 0.75MOA but to be honest with a Dasher or 6BRA that's a pretty poor group. With newer barrels and a dialed in match load they are usually closer to 0.25MOA than 0.5MOA. 6BR variants are silly easy.

 

[Tree]

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

Ouch. So we are all just bullshitters, is that the point?

Show us yer target, Tree.

VooDoo

 

[Jakeonthekob]

I always shoot .2s and .1s. Not that I ever take pics at the range... And I'm always busy so I can't go shooting with you guys either.

Haha joking aside, I usually shoot .75-0.5 MOA at 100 yards. I haven't finished load development on my 308 yet so out to 600 is all over the place.

 

[Campguy308]

My last load development trip looked like this. I was hoping to see better. 2 different bullets. More work this weekend

 

[Sheldon N]

Here's an interesting piece of data from a recent NRL match where group shooting was part of a stage and group size was recorded as the tiebreak for the match.

You had to shoot 4 rounds from a barricade position at steel targets, then drop prone and shoot 4 rounds onto paper at 300 yards, recorded by an electronic target. Groups size for the four shots was recorded. You had 90 seconds to complete the stage so no dicking around.

125 shooters at the match ranging from experienced pro shooters to your casual match competitor. You can see the group size listed under "Time Stage 16" in the first blue column.

https://nationalrifleleague.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/FINAL-Match3ResultsCombined-JCS.pdf

So when it counted and under pressure most shooters were around 2/3 MOA. A few dropped below 1/2 MOA (1.5" group) and a handful shooters were under 1" for four shots. And there was only one shooter who "did his part" and broke the 1/4 MOA all day threshold.

No surprise it was the Snipers Hide Cup individual winner @Piper907

 

[Deleted member 10043]

This is pretty much my standard 100 yard group whether using factory or hand loads now.....

View attachment 7121559

This group is hand load development. Gun is a Savage 10 FCP-SR in 6.5 Creedmoor in an MDT chassis with XLR Extreme Buttstock and Athlon optics. Fired from a bench using a rear bag and an Atlas bipod. Basically I'm shooting consistent .7 - .5 MOA 5 round groups rain or shine, hot or cold, factory or hand loads. I thought I was improving/getting a smaller group size through load development but after shooting my best hand load against Hornady Factory 147 gr. ELD-M's I found both to be just like the group above. Mainly hand loading now to save a few $ and get exactly what I want. I'm a Whore for building precision ammunition...I just like building my own fodder.

VooDoo

This

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I have a few rifles that can shoot sub. 25moa but I on the other hand can't shoot better then. 5 moa every day. I would say me and my rifles can shoot half moa out to 500 yards everyday and that opens up past 500. Some days I'm a. 25 moa shooter but on average its half moa.

...in the rain...and the wind...

 

[Supersubes]

...in the rain...and the wind...

When you break em’ in right

Grin......

 

[Midwestside]

So when it counted and under pressure most shooters were around 2/3 MOA. A few dropped below 1/2 MOA (1.5" group) and a handful shooters were under 1" for four shots. And there was only one shooter who "did his part" and broke the 1/4 MOA all day threshold.

Great post with real relevant data instead of the usual horseshit claims by many

 

[Dthomas3523]

My .270 will hit at a mile all day as long as I do my part.

 

[brianf]

That’s using MILs right

 

[HMRamateur]

Being fairly new to this, I have some questions regarding shooting groups. If I shoot 2 5 shot groups at the same point of aim is that a 10 shot group? Should I be shooting my groups slow, so as not to let the barrel heat up too much, or should I be shooting as fast as it takes me to get a good steady shot off?

Here's some groups from load development. The one on the left is 2 5 shot groups on top of each other. The top is a six shot group with a couple minutes to cool a bit after 4 shots.

 

[garandman]

In 6.5CM 140 Berger 41.4 H4350 .0010 off the lands, 2745fps, 5 shot groups :

Best: 0. 38"

Worst: 0.65"

What I'm wanting to average:

 

[midSCarolina]

With a factory bergara i'd say the average is about 0.65moa. My best groups will be around 0.3moa and my worst are typically right under 1moa. Usually shoot 5 round groups but changed some things up and was just trying to get a feel for the rifle before deer season starts on the 15th ?. These are 4 consecutive groups I shot the other day

 

[Mooseknuckles]

This is pretty average for me. For some reason always have one flyer on a 5 shot group. Could be me, actually probably is me.
Just shooting a factory rpr 6mm creedmoor with 105 Berger’s.

 

[garandman]

For some reason always have one flyer on a 5 shot group.

I have the same thing happen frequently.

For me I believe it is either laziness or lack of focus or forcing a shot… rather than stopping the process and resetting I go ahead and break a shot in a less than ideal setting

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

I have the frequent flyer issue as well. Tried to believe it was parallax or wind or whatever but it's me. I'm not as good as the gun yet or maybe never will be. There is always one shot out of 5 that is just not in the group.

VooDoo

 

[Lionsbreath]

My .270 will hit at a mile all day as long as I do my part.

Mine will too, with 130 core-lokts tho

 

[steve123]

This is too wide open of a question...

If this question were asked at BR central or AS???

Remember Elfster with his 6mmPPC and F class bipod at 100Y. "almost like cheating" but within the rules. I've had 6mmPPC bench rifles using custom flat base 68 grain bullets, believe me it's not the same as your standard 6.5Creed.

I was never a great 100Y group shooter but at distance on steel in the wind I could connect about as well as anyone with my 6x47L. 6x47L was a hair more than 1/2 moa on average.

6mmBR has been awesome, definitely lower SD's and does go tighter on the vertical at distance as well as putting in smaller 100Y groups. Had my share of .6-.7" groups but seems like there's 4 touching and 1 out or all 5 touching more often than not, which I'm plenty happy with off a tactical style bipod and in consideration of my own wobble zone at my age.

Some people only have access to 100Y locally so if they shoot often they will get good at the nuances of it. Many of us just check zero at 100Y and get to the long range shooting, I'm more the latter.