What is going on with my GAP rig?!

[Gjb89]

A little baffled at what the culprit is in my setup. I have a 6.5 CM build by GAP and I just received my Thunderbeast Ultra 9 6.5. Shot a 3 round group at 100yds without the can to compare POI shifts. Put the can on, check for obstructions and everything lines up great according to my eye. Shoot a 5 round group and my POI shit is 7-12" left and 4" high at 100 yds! No baffle strikes, brake and can are not loose, no copper streaks on the end cap. I am completely lost as to who the culprit is. Thoughts?

 

[Bender]

Wow... odd. No idea. I only shoot suppressed. I have no data on my poi change without my can.

 

[kRcu]

Do you have a suppressor cover? If so, is it hanging off of the front end of the can?

 

[Gjb89]

Do you have a suppressor cover? If so, is it hanging off of the front end of the can?

No cover. Out of curiosity how would that effect the POI?

 

[Gjb89]

Wow... odd. No idea. I only shoot suppressed. I have no data on my poi change without my can.

I cant even get it to group now. The holes are grouping in about 8" wide and 1-1/2" tall rectangle.

 

[kRcu]

No cover. Out of curiosity how would that effect the POI?

I’ve heard it creates a false crown and can throw off impacts.

 

[KZP]

Does it group again when you take the can off?

 

[Gjb89]

Does it group again when you take the can off?

Yep another 1/2" group at the exact same point it was at prior to putting the can on.

 

[KZP]

Ugh, that is frustrating. I wonder if something with the can is out of spec. I would be on the phone with the manufacturer at this point.

 

[Badfinger]

I'm not sure but it sounds like the can isn't centered and if the rounds aren't hitting it they must be really close. I would call the manufacturer before shooting it again.

 

[kRcu]

Yep another 1/2" group at the exact same point it was at prior to putting the can on.

Peel washer for the CB Brake?

 

[Gjb89]

Ugh, that is frustrating. I wonder if something with the can is out of spec. I would be on the phone with the manufacturer at this point.

GAP thinks it's the can, have to pay for shipping if it ends up not being the rifle.
Thunderbeast thinks it's more then likely the threads on the barrel. They want to look at the barreled action and the can to make a conclusion. Have to pay for shipping for that also. I'm not sure who I should send my stuff too.

 

[KZP]

Do you know anyone who would let you test the can on their rifle? If it starts shooting wonky, then it seems like it isn't your rifle.

 

[Gjb89]

Peel washer for the CB Brake?

There is some sort of washer it looks like. GAP installed the brake.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,
I would send to TBAC because if it IS the can they "can" fix it. If it IS the barrel threads they should be able to fix it.
If send to GAP they can fix barrel threads but doubt they are going to fix the can.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[kRcu]

There is some sort of washer it looks like. GAP installed the brake.
View attachment 6888706

Looks like a peel washer or similar, which is correct. Just wondered if you had a crush washer.

 

[jaycoux]

Looks like a peel washer or similar, which is correct. Just wondered if you had a crush washer.

I would try factory ammo in your rifle first. Is it possible the extra weight hanging on the barrel has affected the barrel harmonics of your load? Probably not but it might be good to rule that out first.

 

[Wyfox]

I would send it to Thunderbeast, they'll take care of it.

 

[Badfinger]

DON'T SHOOT ANYTHING THROUGH THAT SUPPRESSOR !!!!!

 

[Gjb89]

I would try factory ammo in your rifle first. Is it possible the extra weight hanging on the barrel has affected the barrel harmonics of your load? Probably not but it might be good to rule that out first.

Using factory Hornady ELD-M.

 

[Gjb89]

This is at 100 yds.. POA was the 7 on the right. The hit was without the can and the other 6 shots were with the can on. Ignore the taped holes.

 

[Gjb89]

Also I just got home and took a hard look down the barrel. The can is slightly overhanging the bore from 3 o’clock to 6. Should I just send the can or send TBAC the barreled action also?

 

[kRcu]

Call TBAC and see what they suggest.

 

[Gjb89]

Took off the brake that GAP installed. This is how it looks... a lot of thread lock and bent washers.

 

[Bender]

I would guess improper fitting can due the threads being gummed up.

 

[Gjb89]

I would guess improper fitting can due the threads being gummed up.

TBAC believes this is the issue also. Going to remount and take it to the range tomorrow if the bore looks open.

 

[chongoMT]

I would continue to take shit apart and try to self diagnose your problem until neither vendor wants to help with your problem. Oh, wait you already started that when you took the muzzle device off. Good job, keep ignoring good advice when you ask for help on a forum.

Stop tinkering and send it to TBAC, if they determine the threads are wrong that should be enough for GAP to pay shipping and stand behind the work already completed and paid for.

 

[deersniper]

Shipping rifles is expensive and a big pita I can see why he would like to nail down the issues before shipping.

 

[chongoMT]

I agree, it is expensive. All sarcasm aside, it may still be cheaper than trying to figure it out by yourself.

 

[Servo93]

I'm willing to bet the rifle isn't threaded concentric or all that extra stuff on the threads is causing problems. Even if the round does not strike the suppressor it can be affected. The easiest thing to try would be too remove the brake and washers and clean the threads up. I'd then screw the brake on without worrying about timing it (i.e. no washers just butt the brake snug up against the shoulder) and then attach the suppressor. Double check down the bore to make sure you wont get a baffle strike, then go shoot.

Also, I'd try that suppressor on a different rifle if you have access to one. That should point out the problem right, quick and in a hurry.

 

[Gjb89]

I would continue to take shit apart and try to self diagnose your problem until neither vendor wants to help with your problem. Oh, wait you already started that when you took the muzzle device off. Good job, keep ignoring good advice when you ask for help on a forum.

Stop tinkering and send it to TBAC, if they determine the threads are wrong that should be enough for GAP to pay shipping and stand behind the work already completed and paid for.

Before you flip shit you should investigate a little more. TBAC called me and asked me to take the brake off and inspect the threads and washer (see post #26).

 

[Gjb89]

Shipping rifles is expensive and a big pita I can see why he would like to nail down the issues before shipping.

This is why TBAC asked me to take the brake off first to see if it is an easy fix.

 

[chongoMT]

You are correct and I missed that. My sarcasm and sardonic comment most likely didn't contribute, good luck with the diagnostics on the rifle.

 

[bluebu70]

You said that you don’t have a cover. It may be possible that mirage is screwing with you, it only takes a couple of rounds to get that hot. The way the shot pattern walked it’s way up, I would eliminate that from the equation before doing anything drastic.

 

[Gjb89]

You said that you don’t have a cover. It may be possible that mirage is screwing with you, it only takes a couple of rounds to get that hot. The way the shot pattern walked it’s way up, I would eliminate that from the equation before doing anything drastic.

All those impacts were going to the left.

 

[Mordamer]

You said that you don’t have a cover. It may be possible that mirage is screwing with you, it only takes a couple of rounds to get that hot. The way the shot pattern walked it’s way up, I would eliminate that from the equation before doing anything drastic.

Dumbest comment of the day. He could have that suppressor red hot and mirage wouldn't throw him off that far. It was also happening from the first shot. Have you ever shot with a suppressor?

The threads either aren't concentric or there was something on the threads or between the brake and the thread shoulder that caused the can to be not perfectly aligned. There is a tiny chance there is a defect in the suppressor or the muzzle device, but pretty unlikely.

 

[kRcu]

Dumbest comment of the day. He could have that suppressor red hot and mirage wouldn't throw him off that far. It was also happening from the first shot. Have you ever shot with a suppressor?

The threads either aren't concentric or there was something on the threads or between the brake and the thread shoulder that caused the can to be not perfectly aligned. There is a tiny chance there is a defect in the suppressor or the muzzle device, but pretty unlikely.

I like how you had to make some shitty comment rather than just educating someone you felt was wrong. Neat angle to take.

 

[character0]

FWIW you can get 36" precision ground soft tool steel rods in various diameters +/- 0.0005 shipped directly to your door from McmasterCarr. A precision ground 36" 0.246" diameter rod is $6 + shipping ($10 or so, might as well grab a whole gamut of sizes for your other caliber rifles) a great addition to your kit for verifying the integrity of your barrel and suppressor interface.

I run the appropriate diameter rod down the barrel after attaching the brake/mounting device and suppressor just to verify. Run the rod all the way to the closed bolt face, it will be laying in the barrel and will easily indicate if you're clearing the suppressor baffles and endcap.

 

[el_cazador713]

??? love it

 

[Gjb89]

Well took the rifle to the range with the newly installed brake and guess what.. The rifle now groups less then 1" below with the can on. So the excessive thread lock and distorted washers were the culprit. If anyone has George's email I would love to message him and let him know my experience.

 

[Gjb89]

If you don't mind me asking how much did you pay for that build? Was it all done by GAP?

$4,860, IMO too much to be paying to have such a simple little mistake happen. Everything was done by GAP including mounting the brake. It is what it is. We are human and shit happens. Just sucks that TBAC was the only one willing to discuss the issue and help me diagnose the problem where GAP just said it's the cans fault. One company lost my business and the other gained a life long customer.

 

[Bender]

Meh, shit happens. Gap probably could have got with you quicker, but I wouldn’t write them off just because of a poor brake install. Talk it out with George. Now if he tells you to go pound sand and writes you off, then by all means LOL

 

[B y r o n]

I'm not sure I understand how you mounted the can with the brake that was installed. If it was a direct thread then the brake would have had to come off first, but that wasn't stated. I also don't see a way for a can to attach to that brake so how was it mounted?

You also mention a newly installed brake so what was different about your install?

 

[spife7980]

I'm not sure I understand how you mounted the can with the brake that was installed. If it was a direct thread then the brake would have had to come off first, but that wasn't stated. I also don't see a way for a can to attach to that brake so how was it mounted?

You also mention a newly installed brake so what was different about your install?

It mounts on that lovely tb cb brake... (the threads are under the knurled thread protector)

 

[brianf]

I don't send it back asap.
Every group you fire is a few $
And every day you don't send it is another day of confusion and possible damage costing more $
Never mind stress and not having fun with the rig

 

[niteshooter]

3 day weekend for most. Some people taking off early Thursday. But yeah, fuck anyone who can’t help resolve my problems in a thread I start after 3pm Easter Weekend and I fix it before noon the next day with all this free time in my life. I’ll take my next ten rifle builds elsewhere too and remember to tell the whole internet where and how I’ll spend that money.

But; I’d give TBAC thumbs up for the prompt help under the circumstances.
Getting business answers Monday during normal business hours might be beneficial also. Yes I’m being facetious! Working on Good Friday watching the rest of the company take off doesn’t lighten the mood. So fire back if needed OP it might help the day go by.

To add something constructive.
[email protected] was the sales dude at one time. Not sure today.
So to pull a guess out of my ass maybe Mr. Gardner is [email protected] or similar.

On a good note. Glad you got your new toy shooting good for the long weekend.

 

[Gjb89]

Meh, shit happens. Gap probably could have got with you quicker, but I wouldn’t write them off just because of a poor brake install. Talk it out with George. Now if he tells you to go pound sand and writes you off, then by all means LOL

I will say other then this issue I have been very happy with the rifle .

I don't send it back asap.
Every group you fire is a few $
And every day you don't send it is another day of confusion and possible damage costing more $
Never mind stress and not having fun with the rig

No reason to send it back, issue has been resolved.

3 day weekend for most. Some people taking off early Thursday. But yeah, fuck anyone who can’t help resolve my problems in a thread I start after 3pm Easter Weekend and I fix it before noon the next day with all this free time in my life. I’ll take my next ten rifle builds elsewhere too and remember to tell the whole internet where and how I’ll spend that money.

But; I’d give TBAC thumbs up for the prompt help under the circumstances.
Getting business answers Monday during normal business hours might be beneficial also. Yes I’m being facetious! Working on Good Friday watching the rest of the company take off doesn’t lighten the mood. So fire back if needed OP it might help the day go by.

To add something constructive.
[email protected] was the sales dude at one time. Not sure today.
So to pull a guess out of my ass maybe Mr. Gardner is [email protected] or similar.

On a good note. Glad you got your new toy shooting good for the long weekend.

If they didn't answer their phones because everyone was off I wouldn't be hurt by that. I talked to someone on Thursday at 11:00 a.m. the answer they gave me is my gripe. The only way I was able to get this resolved was because TBAC assisted me yesterday. I also never stated "fuck anyone who can’t help resolve my problems". I found other posts in this thread very helpful (see my likes). On a another note enjoy your day of work douche, i'm going shooting

 

[NateVA]

Glad to see TBAC helped diagnose the problem. That is a weird thing to mess up on GAP's part.

 

[JFComfort]

To play devils advocate, the thread lock could be to ensure that the mount doesn’t turn loose off the barrel and leave the mount + suppressor stuck together when removing the suppressor. We time/clock them so they are torqued against the barrel shoulder. I hate peel washers on precision bolt guns.

Both TB and GAP are reputable companies and Im glad your issue is resolved.

 

[deersniper]

Yeah I had a issue with a Gap where they mounted one of the rings up on the rail torquing the crap out of the scope so I couldn't zero it lol. Gun is super accurate though and everything else on the build is perfect. Couldn't ask for a more accurate gun. Waiting on my ultra 9 now to supplement my Sandstorm