1 day without AC and people down here are going to start rioting bad
- Thread starter blue_ridge
- Start date
I can probably handle part of the neighborhood army day watch/patrol/barricade but by 8 pm its my bed time lol
They are not spiking the stores they are going to use. Those are intermixed with everything else. Many will get the last laugh from the grave.
the people with generators are in for a nasty surprise
Cool story I’m sure it’ll make me stronger or kill the guinea pigs first
Digger - there was real value in your 19m statement. Would like to know who and how they came up with that. Very interesting. The rest was a series of straw man arguments. I didn’t say anything about staying in the city. I don’t live in one or suburbia for that matter. I also said nothing about sniper stand offs. 50-200 yards is not sniper territory unless your using NC star scoped High Points. Love to hear more about the 19m though. Good stuff.
Clue me?
That's why I have developed a resistance to iocaine powder
The generator owner and his entire family are gonna meet the business end of a 16” PSA Black Friday Special all for something that can’t be moved and has about 14 hours of fuel left at time of “acquisition.”
Or make a list of all the people that don’t hoard food and water. They go first.
Times like these I wish I lived in an HOA. Next meeting I could just ask people to raise their hand if they hoard, and to *please* keep them raised as I write their names and addresses down.
wwweeeeelllll i got extra food and liquids that need cooling help me......i have meds that require cooling help me.....my cat needs its food and meds cooled help me ..... i just need my phone /i pad /flash light /hearing aids /tooth brush /tv etc charged help me .....i am your long lost brother help me ....i need the gasoline to drive around help me .......fuk it gemme it or i will kill you so help me and dozens of other things they will want to use your electric or oh look lights lets go there
Laughing, when/if it happens we'll see how your thought train works out for you.
while they might not have consumables per say they might have critical skills ......a re-tired business owner that knows how to run things, a hunter ,builder ,military ,medical ,[gasp] a politician ,mechanic and more
The discussion about what optic is best when SHTF is immaterial. How this plays out is as follows - you get lightly wounded in the leg by a 22 LR, and die of sepsis 36 hrs later from a non fatal wound because the lack of access to antibiotics and medical care.
That being said I have a 1-4x Accupoint with fiberoptic illumination that doesn't need batteries. It would work fine well for 19 meter gunfights and my resultant short lifespan.
That being said I have a 1-4x Accupoint with fiberoptic illumination that doesn't need batteries. It would work fine well for 19 meter gunfights and my resultant short lifespan.
the haves and the have nots will bring out the best and the worse from people .....i do not have a generator but i do have much needed skills for barter
that is why you team up with your neighbors especially the one who can treat you
In talking with many people on this rock about what they went thru in a real SHTF event they lived thru, most Americans have no clue as to the level some will reach to protect what is theirs or take what is not. The bulk that tried to take, according to those I talked to were never able to take again. That included many gangs. This country lives in the perception world, when shtf happens, reality will take over and many will be in for a huge wake up call.
Also worth noting, it won’t be “wake up one day and suddenly it’s The Purge” societal degredation takes time in all but the most extreme circumstances, and most of those extreme circumstances are situations that involve large segments of the population dead to things they cannot fight or really adequately prepare for. (unless you want to literally go live under a rock and enact 24/7 CBRN protocols)
Have useful skills, find others with skills that complement your useful skills, be civically minded, and the wider degredation of society in these hypotheticals may not have much effect on your local situation if you’re not the only one prepared.
To quote a good movie “Be good my dudes”
Firearms and basic living supplies aren’t all you’ll need. Knowledge is power, keep guides, offline backups, offline and hardened methods of access/retrieval.
Have useful skills, find others with skills that complement your useful skills, be civically minded, and the wider degredation of society in these hypotheticals may not have much effect on your local situation if you’re not the only one prepared.
To quote a good movie “Be good my dudes”
Firearms and basic living supplies aren’t all you’ll need. Knowledge is power, keep guides, offline backups, offline and hardened methods of access/retrieval.
19 meters was the stated distance when I went through both the Basic Urban Skills Trainer, as well as Military Operations on Urban Terrain instructor courses...shit...like 18ish years ago (time flies). Things like crew served weapons, surveillance, and communication equipment will obviously extend the distance...but for the dirty little goat humpers, they either liked to spray us from a distance and run (almost never casualty inducing)...or they figured it was a suicide and got as close as possible.
From 2013 - 2015 I was the Continuity of Operations Coordinator for Headquarters, Marine Corps...sitting in a one man fighting hole in the basement of the Pentagon. My whole life basically entailed being able to get the key USMC leadership out of DC during an emergency. As such, I was able to be exposed to the biggest 12lb heads that the 19 named DoD (plus others) entities had. Everything regarding the 'end of the world' that is asked on the forums has been war gamed there for decades. Infrastructure, transportation, etc... etc... If there was something that could be studied, chances are the Air Force has assigned six Colonels to give presentations on it by Tuesday.
Every occurrence of civil unrest or collapse (eg. What happened to the German population during the Allied and Russian invasions) over the last 100 years has been dissected over and over again. Those medals for the desk jockeys wont hand themselves out. Need new power point presentations monthly.
The sniper standoffs and others was not a strawman argument aimed at you...much more to address the other range of questions that always gets asked regarding what life will be like when it finally goes downhill fast. We don't know a lot. However there are always a certain line of questions that seemed to get asked, and I figured I'd get ahead of those for the members here who take the time to read everything.
When I retired in 2018, instead of going back to DC and making a decent wage doing the same job in a suit - as the guy who I replaced did - I moved as far away from civilization as I thought I could and took up yelling at cows for a living. It was a combination of disillusionment in my gub'ment, and self-preservation for my family. I hope that puts my perspective on our capability to function in an altruistic society during a collapse into picture.
Plus now I can help my wife run her vet clinic so she can keep me happy with Accuracy International toys and such.
# TeamTrophyHusbands Here is an old video comparing different common military cartridges and their penetration capabilities in an urban environment...I believe it was at 19 yards. *I know, not optics, but I figured still relevant to the conversation*.
Thanks. And I bet you haven’t regretted that decision even once.19 meters was the stated distance when I went through both the Basic Urban Skills Trainer, as well as Military Operations on Urban Terrain instructor courses...shit...like 18ish years ago (time flies). Things like crew served weapons, surveillance, and communication equipment will obviously extend the distance...but for the dirty little goat humpers, they either liked to spray us from a distance and run (almost never casualty inducing)...or they figured it was a suicide and got as close as possible.
From 2013 - 2015 I was the Continuity of Operations Coordinator for Headquarters, Marine Corps...sitting in a one man fighting hole in the basement of the Pentagon. My whole life basically entailed being able to get the key USMC leadership out of DC during an emergency. As such, I was able to be exposed to the biggest 12lb heads that the 19 named DoD (plus others) entities had. Everything regarding the 'end of the world' that is asked on the forums has been war gamed there for decades. Infrastructure, transportation, etc... etc... If there was something that could be studied, chances are the Air Force has assigned six Colonels to give presentations on it by Tuesday.
Every occurrence of civil unrest or collapse (eg. What happened to the German population during the Allied and Russian invasions) over the last 100 years has been dissected over and over again. Those medals for the desk jockeys wont hand themselves out. Need new power point presentations monthly.
The sniper standoffs and others was not a strawman argument aimed at you...much more to address the other range of questions that always gets asked regarding what life will be like when it finally goes downhill fast. We don't know a lot. However there are always a certain line of questions that seemed to get asked, and I figured I'd get ahead of those for the members here who take the time to read everything.
When I retired in 2018, instead of going back to DC and making a decent wage doing the same job in a suit - as the guy who I replaced did - I moved as far away from civilization as I thought I could and took up yelling at cows for a living. It was a combination of disillusionment in my gub'ment, and self-preservation for my family. I hope that puts my perspective on our capability to function in an altruistic society during a collapse into picture.
Plus now I can help my wife run her vet clinic so she can keep me happy with Accuracy International toys and such.
.If S really does HTF, I plan to pool together resources with neighbors and family. Most of my neighbors are veterans like me. We have people in medical professions, construction, electronics and communication, police. I think we would barricade the entrance, set up some comms, start a watch rotation, water collection, food prep, etc. Might not last the duration, but our odds would be greatly increased.
I think it’s a good idea to have these conversations with people around you now. When something really goes down, your neighbors are less likely to panic and do someth8 g stupid if you’ve already talked about it and have some basic agreement on teamwork.
I think it’s a good idea to have these conversations with people around you now. When something really goes down, your neighbors are less likely to panic and do someth8 g stupid if you’ve already talked about it and have some basic agreement on teamwork.
I wouldn't try to build a house with just a hammer. I have a box of different tools for different things.
Get different optics on different rifles/shotguns for what you need.
The opportunities to engage targets at multiple hundreds of yards will be few and far between. It is a great skill to have, but most fights are going to happen at under 50 yards, where some Bubba with a Mini-14 or SKS or some thug with a pistol grip pump and slugs can still wreck your day and end you.
Hell, some Fudd with a 30'30 lever-action could ambush you from the woods behind your house.
If your setup isn't night vision compatible and you're not running night vision, you're ultimately toast.
I prefer to just lie low, let the normies melt down and wipe each other out, ride out the die off, neutralize whoever I need to neutralize, and go from there.
I won't write how to dissuade thieves from coming on your property, but throughout history it was normal to hang or impale people and leave them up as a warning to others. Most Americans are so far gone done down the "normie" path, that the sight of several bodies of thieves hanging from a tree or a pole, or impaled on stakes, would horrify them in ways they wouldn't be able to explain.
I stock 7 different types of antibiotics [probably about 100 pills per type], enough to treat several dozen infections for multiple people. I also have meds on hand to treat tuberculosis as I anticipate tuberculosis will make a major comeback in the USA in the near future. It is also a great item to have on hand to trade with. If I feel bad about missing out on never getting an Omega watch or a Rolex, I can always trade a 7 day supply of antibiotics to some former investment bank whose wife or son is dying of a bacterial infection for said (formerly) expensive watch. In Lebanon the currency has collapsed and the economy/society imploded, and people are trading the deeds to their houses for space on migrant smuggler ships, they are trading super cars for food/cooking oil, watches for cooking supplies, gold/silver for medicine, etc.
Things ALWAYS stabilize and some sort of organized coherent society ALWAYS emerges. It never hurts to be sitting on a crate of gold, silver, and Omega watches when the dust has settled.
I have frequently had bacterial infections and needed antibiotics, and I need clean drinking water on a daily basis. I imagine those needs will continue.
I have never needed a 300 win mag custom build sniper rifle, but it is cool, neat, useful to have, it may potentially be needed. I am far more confident I will need cleaning drinking water as opposed to my 300 win mag custom build "sniper rifle."
The ability to help people resolve their disputes and to negotiate, in a peaceful manner, is also quite an asset. As is being well-regarded and respected on a local level.
If everybody is prepared for their version of infantry or sniper combat, but they're not prepared for daily sanitation, removal of bio-waste from their premises, and access to clean drinking water, they're planning for a 1 in 100,000 sniper duel scenario but not the daily reality of "you're going to die from dysentery and cholera" scenario.
Granted, if a tactical academy ran a course on "how to avoid cholera" few people would pay $300 per course day for that class.
The rifle courses and rifles are because I know how to manage clean drinking water but not everybody wants to do that for themselves, some people believe it would be easier to try to raid others and take their clean water.
I worked out the numbers with a friend who is an officer (and engineer) who works as a strategic war planner in the Pentagon.
If the energy grid goes down in the United States, for any reason (war or anything), within the first month approximately 24 to 37 million Americans will die. This is what I term the "first wave die-off."
It will be anybody dependent on refrigerated medication, by far the largest group being diabetics dependent on insulin. Additionally, anybody on kidney dialysis, most people undergoing cancer treatment, and most people on oxygen. This is the 24 to 37 million mark. This was my estimate and he agreed.
The second wave die-offs will begin to occur two to three months out and will consist of people who are too obese and physically frail to do anything needed to survive, people who weigh 400-500lbs and can't walk to a river to get water, can't split logs for heat for fire wood, can't walk 2 miles into the woods to stalk a deer, they just can't do anything. Approximately 54 million Americans have a significant physical disability. While 45% of Americans are obese, and there is a significant overlap between the physically disabled and the obese. Our estimate is anywhere from 50 million to 100 million in this second wave die-off.
There will also be variations due to the break down of sanitation and many people dying of cholera, dysentery, and other waterborne illnesses, as well as contaminated food, undercooked wild game, societal violence, otherwise treatable infections that won't get treated. This doesn't even get into mass die-off waves in the southern states due to heat waves and lack of air conditioning if the grid goes down in the summer, or people freezing to death in their own homes in northern states if the grid goes down in the winter.
We came up with a ball park estimate that if the grid goes down and stays down for 12 months, upwards of 150 million Americans will die during those 12 months, the vast majority from lack of availability or access to medications, lack of access to clean water, exposure to the elements, the natural consequences of their pre-existing health conditions, and a smaller number due to societal violence.
We didn't even get into the fact that if nuclear power plants begin having Loss of Offsite Power with accompanying "total station blackouts" with an inability to power the cooling systems for decay heat removal in the spent fuel pools, that each spent fuel pool will eventually see containment breached due to the heat from the uncooled spent fuel. Most nuclear power plants have about 14 days of diesel on-site to power the emergency back-up diesels in the event they lose access to the grid and have to power their own emergency systems. After those 14 days are up, if they haven't been getting more diesel and if the grid isn't back up, it is pretty much game over. Imagine somewhere around day 15-16 after a nationwide grid down event, most nuclear power plants begin to experience melting in the spent fuel pools, so you wind up with about 100 communities in the USA that will have significant radiological releases in short order after a grid down. Locals would do well to strive to keep diesel deliveries going to those plants. However, if you've ever seen the diesel generators, they are actual marine diesels, they are massive.
"Overall, SPAR results indicate that core damage frequencies for LOOP and SBO are lower than previous estimates. Improvements in emergency diesel generator performance contribute to this risk reduction."
The only downside of an emergency diesel generator is that it requires a LOT of diesel and deliveries of more diesel.
A lot of Americans are also going to die trying to keep alive their retarded, crippled, or obese/fat/lazy relatives and friends who are basically dead weight on a sinking ship. When it comes down to it, most people in our advanced comfortable peaceful docile society aren't capable of making harsh utilitarian calculations and doing a triage based on survival needs over sentimentality. I wouldn't exhaust myself and drown to try to keep a 400lb lard afloat when that guy had all the opportunity in the world to be in shape prior to the crisis. A lot of people will though, out of some misguided sense of obligation or sentimentality.
Here is a horrific "what if."
Suppose you have an optic with an illuminated reticle and then an unmagnified red dot. Suppose it is stored in your electronically locked gun safe or your gun room/vault with an electronic panel lock on the door.
An EMP occurs. It takes you a while to find an alternative way to bypass your electronic lock [assuming you don't have a handy skeleton key stored somewhere nearby], only for you to discover that the electronics in your optics are fried.
It never hurts to be very proficient with iron sights and to rely primarily on optics that don't have electronics or components that can be wiped out.
I have a variety, "optics with electronics, optics without electronics, backup iron sights, primary iron sights" etc.
If all else fails, you can't go wrong going as low tech as an M1 Carbine or an M1 Garand. Hell, the M1A1 Carbine is a fine and handy little carbine with great capabilities for the likely combat ranges for SHTF confrontations. If I had to go outside to chop or retrieve firewood I would definitely feel confident and fine having an M1 Carbine with me, same as an M1A Scout Squad with iron sights or a 1-6 LPVO.
There is very little that can go wrong on a properly maintained M1 Carbine with a reliable magazine and good ammo.
Suppose you have an optic with an illuminated reticle and then an unmagnified red dot. Suppose it is stored in your electronically locked gun safe or your gun room/vault with an electronic panel lock on the door.
An EMP occurs. It takes you a while to find an alternative way to bypass your electronic lock [assuming you don't have a handy skeleton key stored somewhere nearby], only for you to discover that the electronics in your optics are fried.
It never hurts to be very proficient with iron sights and to rely primarily on optics that don't have electronics or components that can be wiped out.
I have a variety, "optics with electronics, optics without electronics, backup iron sights, primary iron sights" etc.
If all else fails, you can't go wrong going as low tech as an M1 Carbine or an M1 Garand. Hell, the M1A1 Carbine is a fine and handy little carbine with great capabilities for the likely combat ranges for SHTF confrontations. If I had to go outside to chop or retrieve firewood I would definitely feel confident and fine having an M1 Carbine with me, same as an M1A Scout Squad with iron sights or a 1-6 LPVO.
There is very little that can go wrong on a properly maintained M1 Carbine with a reliable magazine and good ammo.
Hence why you buy a scope that has a reticle you can use without illumination...
If you ground your safe, it will act as a Faraday cage and ground the pulse and everything will work.
Go buy a shit ton of coffee and google DTRA EMP and read for a bit.
Totally agree on iron sights. Low tech is still a thing.
We have a 1,000 yard range here, and the Marines from the wet side (Bremerton area) come and compete with irons out to 600 yards and do well with hits on target.
Go buy a shit ton of coffee and google DTRA EMP and read for a bit.
Totally agree on iron sights. Low tech is still a thing.
We have a 1,000 yard range here, and the Marines from the wet side (Bremerton area) come and compete with irons out to 600 yards and do well with hits on target.
1- I don't drink coffee or any psychoactive beverage, stimulant or depressant. I get the point though.
2- I've conversed with several electrical engineers and their position is that it will greatly hinge on well-sealed the safe is, and how strong the pulse is, in determining whether there will be discharge of energy into the safe and its contents.
3- Iron sights are something that are fast becoming a lost art and their importance is being lost on basically anybody under 25, because irons are not "hip" and "with it" but they are always there and unless they physically break or come loose, they generally do not fail because they sort of cannot fail.
I just tried "up scope" to my old 3x9 on a win mag one month later i kept the old one ....my head hurt doing research for a non wifi scope
I have a mix of illuminated and non-illuminated reticles, some of which [red dots] can only be used illuminated, others are fine if the illumination goes down.
I actually have a list of scopes/optics/red dots from an inventory I recently did.
Leupold Mark 4 3.5-10
Leupold Mark 5 HD 5-25
Leupold Mark 5 HD 3.6-18
Leupold Mark 8 3.5-25
Tract Toric 4-25
Night Force ATACR 4-16
Vortex Viper PST Gen 2 5-25
Vortex Viper PST Gen 2 5-25
Sig Tango6 1-6
Trijicon ACOG 4x32 with RMR
Trijicon ACOG 4x32 with RMR
Trijicon MRO
Trijicon RMR
Trijicon RMR
Trijicon RMR
Trijicon RMR
Trijicon RMR
Trijicon RMRcc
Trijicon RMRcc
Trijicon RMRcc
Trijicon RMRcc
I clearly like Leupold and Trijicon. I'd be fine getting another Tract Toric and I'm looking forward to getting to use my new NF for several courses and a few dozen range trips for 2024.
The future of my optics purchases [for 2024] probably holds 2 more Nightforce ATACR [for an LMT MARS-H DMR I plan to get and a custom-build AR-10 that is being finished as I write], and 1 more Sig Tango6 [for a Sig MCX-Spear 16 inch 308].
For engagements around the household/perimeter of the premises, I am fine with a Beretta 1301 sporting an RMR, and my ability to simply go back to iron sights if needed or my LWRC PDW with the MRO, or as I said, an old handy M1A1 Carbine with iron sights and a simple 15 or 30 round magazine. Heck, the standard M1 Carbine without the folding stock is light enough and compact enough, and can hold two 15 round magazines in the buttstock pouch. An M1 Carbine with access to 45 rounds on the Carbine itself, is quite sufficient for going outside to chop wood, grill, boil water, inventory supplies, etc.
We'll there is that, but also this.
Next time you have the opportunity to shoot at night w/o N/V, thermal ect, try this. If you can see the target in the glass no matter the power, put the correct amount of,... Up,... for the distance. Now engage the target like you normally would and watch what happens. Is it going to be pin point, nope? If you know your gear well, it will be close enough for "Gov work" out to about 3-400yds depending how much you train. Remember, You Have To Know Your Gear, like anything else many ways to skin a cat.
Knowing your stick, you will mount it mostly the same way every time, and your eye,... Will Find,... the crt of the ret. That training goes back to the mid 60's that I know of, maybe back farther?
1-4 or 1-6 cheapie. It will allow you to hit IPSC size silhouettes at 300+. It smells like an Onlyfans call Center in here.
That was a great scope. I immensely regret selling mine.
The year isn't over yet.
So far for this year I'm up a Leupold Mark 5 HD 3.6-18, Night Force ATACR 4-16, and the Sig Tango6.
I have two custom-builds that are almost done, a 300 win mag bolt-action build, and an AR-10 308 winchester build.
I am planning to put the Leupold Mark 5 HD 3.6-18 on the AR-10 custom build, a Vortex Viper PST Gen 2 5-25 is going on the custom 300 win mag build, for the time being.
I had a Leupold Mark 4 on my LWRC REPR-20 but the scope flat out broke, totally busted, write off, sent back to Leupold with a letter explaining, "this is the third time this scope has been sent back to you, the last two times you replaced the erector and a lot of the internals, the scope is once again busted, it won't accept a correction." I also frankly said, "don't take this the wrong way but I won't accept a repair at this point, the scope is a lemon, I either want it replaced or the matter is going to have to go to litigation." They got back with me and said, "we are about to test it, if we can replicate your problem we will let you know." They then got back with me, "we replicated your problem, the scope is out of spec, we're writing it off, the Mark 4 model you had was discontinued what do you want as a replacement?" I said, "Please get me a Mark 5 HD 3.6-18" which they did.
At the same time I had ordered a Night Force ATACR 4-16 for my REPR, which is presently being mounted and squared away. Thus the Mark 5 HD is going on my custom AR-10 build, for the time being.
Ultimately, before the year is out I plan to buy an LMT MARS-H DMR, a SIG SPEAR-MCX 308, and probably an M1A Loaded or M1A Standard Issue. Assuming I really like the Night Force ATACR I plan to buy 3 more ATACRs, one for my custom build AR-10, one for the M1A, and one for the LMT, and then my Leupold Mark 5 HD from the custom build AR-10 will get moved to my 300 win mag bolt build, and I'll have a Vortex Viper to spare, sitting around waiting for a rifle. I'll also need one more Sig Tango6 for the Sig Spear MCX.
I am definitely buying three more rifles before the year is out, and a few more scopes. I am inclined to get a MAWL IR illuminator and I am eyeballing and even seriously thinking about the KAC AN/PVS-30.
I think for 2025 I am going to look at an M40A5 build, perhaps from GA Precision, an AR-10 in 308 from GA Precision, and perhaps an M40A5 build from my gunsmith, and a 300 PRC or 300 win mag build by Thunder Valley. This would likely mean 2 S&B scopes [one for each M40A5], an ATACR for the AR-10, and undecided for the Thunder Valley build.
I am also keeping my eyes open for any in-stock decently priced KAC SR-25 because I sort of decided, "I want one" and when I decide, "I want XYZ" I tend to get it.
Anything in 30-06 and a bead sight. That’s all I need.
I agree On #3. As is shooting offhand and using a sling.
As for #2, interesting idea, make your gun safe a place to store radios and other key electronics and get it properly grounded.
and all I wanted to do was discuss a small subset of scopes, lol…
and see through mounts
Seriously disappointed in you and the rest of the unprepared individuals in this thread.
Nobody has mentioned the bayonet which is to be regarded as the basis of close quarters combat. Your irons and scopes mean a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin getting it on when I get within @diggler1833 19m.
You see a primary arms optic in that picture... Neg... Bunch of slack jawed larpers...how you gunna pin one of these on during the collapse when you haven't trained with the bayonet..
#AmIright @LRRPF52
Ok Boomer.......LOLOLOL
Well played you must have taken that centrum silver today sir!
No, my Rascal battery was dead so I couldn't get to it. ....... LOLOLOL
My M41A Pulse Rifle doesn't have an optics rail, just open sights on a big G36'ish carry handle.
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