Obviously not if you aren’t brave enough to post a picture of the whole target7mm Rem Mag 5 shot group. I do this all day, every day.
View attachment 8387049
Obviously not if you aren’t brave enough to post a picture of the whole target7mm Rem Mag 5 shot group. I do this all day, every day.
View attachment 8387049
Are you trying to say that if the picture was wider, you could see the pencil used to make that hole?Obviously not if you aren’t brave enough to post a picture of the whole target
Like I said, this is a new type of shooting for me and I'm very much still learning. Up till now, for me, everything has been towards a point of reference, the bullseye (for lack of a better term) as the point of aim to hit.
Doesn't that hold true for precision shooting? Isn't that where the first shot is still directed?
I understand the grouping concept. It just looks like to me, the first off center shot is more of a flyner and follow up shots are then centered towards that.
Learning an awful lot from this site and others like it. Appreciate your perspective.
After I said "flyer" I wondered if that wasn't the wrong word to use. I like calibration better, it will help explain those "shots" I make that didn't go exactly where I wanted them to!I think of that first round as calibration, not a flyer.
Also, I would like to propose an idea that I totally and completely stole from someone else with no regrets or remorse. Possibly it is not a cold bore problem but a cold shooter problem. I start every visit to the range with some dry fire. I can dry fire all the time at home but I dry fire at the range to get myself set in that space.I am also new and learning, so take my comment for what it is, but I figured I'd share what I understand. I'm still re-learning things all the time.
I assume you might see the first round off target, then the rest on the bullseye because the shooter is experienced and has built up consistency in themselves, but there's still inconsistency in the environment. They fire one shot, see where the wind, load, or w.e placed the round, and now, because they are consistent, they also know precisely where every round will land relative to their initial point of aim. It's easy for them to adjust for that discrepancy and place every follow-up shot in the bullseye, assuming the environment doesn't change. They would need to know that every round would consistently land in the same spot as that first round to be able to adjust their POA to hit the bullseye every time afterward.
I think of that first round as calibration, not a flyer. Of course, all the superhumans here would perfectly read the wind, know the exact load, and even have accounted for the gravity of Jupiter being in retrograde and would land their first shot every time. But I'm just a muggle who hopes to someday have the consistency to only need 1 round to know precisely where the next round will land.
Others, such as myself, will group 5 rounds off from the bullseye because I lack that consistency. If I move my POA to adjust for my first shot, I will ruin any meaningful data I would have had about my consistency by being inconsistent with my POA.
Spot on, lots of shooters, especially new ones are done a disservice from constantly being told it’s the Indian, not the arrow…and they get stuck tryin to polish a turd thinking they’re learning somethingI’ve read quite a few of the posts but not all. Has the OP stated what he is shooting? Rifle, caliber, blah blah blah.
I ask this because, before I built a match grade rifle, I was shooting a model 7 243 that ive had since I was 10. Still hunt with it… it’s a great hunting rifle. Started shooting 100 yards on paper with it, got into reloading, etc, and the typical 5 shot group would be 1-2 inches while including whatever “flier.” I got to where I could consistently keep around 1.5” group and figured out that particular rifle likes to shoot a few round before the groups would tighten (it likes a warmed barrel).
After I got into shooting more, I got a 6 dasher and have been shooting it for a few years now (I don’t shoot enough to burn barrels quickly). This rifle doesn’t have “fliers”…. It goes where you point it. If I’m shooting 100 yards, I get mad if I have 5 shots that aren’t all touching…. Because of the accuracy of the rifle, I know anything outside of that kind of grouping is because of me. I’ve had a couple 1” groups and a lot of .5” groups. When I’m really on it, I’ve been able to get into the .2-.3” zone. I’ve never been able to, and never will be able to achieve that kind of consistency with the model 7 243.
Long story short, at a certain point, you can outgrow the accuracy of a particular rifle
That is awesome. May I also blame you when my shooting is crap?It comes down to realistic expectations as well. I'm not a benchrest guy and I shoot a heavy magnum rifle. What floats my boat is extreme long range stuff. I'm in the process of trying to get really good at it.
I have absolutely no desire to enter competitions and such. I like to compete against myself and I set my standards very high to a fault.
Here's the reason: The type of shooting I like to do is a means to get the outside world outside of my head. It's relaxing to me and when it's just me and my rifle alone in my head, all of that other crap disappears. There is no one to blame for anything other than myself in that moment. I reload my own ammo (that's on me). I built my rifle (that's on me). Therefore, if I don't shoot well that day, that's on me.
You'd be amazed how liberating that is. At least for me.
I've competed in many different arenas throughout my life and at this point I just need a little "me" time.
It's my little fortress of solitude of blame. LOL
Absolutely!!!!That is awesome. May I also blame you when my shooting is crap?
There are many types of shooters on this board. Many hunters just want meat on the table. Gamer,s want one hole groups, others are good at 1/2moa groups yet others, are fine at 1 moa. Then you have those who are only looking for a cold bore placement, anytime anywhere, of their choosing.It comes down to realistic expectations as well.
Arguable. Putting that group on a target however…much harder.I'm sure it's been mentioned earlier, but achieving sub-moa at 100yds is quite a bit different than achieving it at 300, 500, 1000 yds.
Fur Sure I agree, on target is much more important. My son and I are going to shoot a match on the 20th, so we went out today and took a few cold bore shots at 100 and 200. His is the top row of 223 and mine in the bottom row is 6.5.Arguable. Putting that group on a target however…much harder.
At this point in my life this is where I'm at. In my retirement years now, the plan is to get out to the range and get more practice. I have always primarily a hunter who shoots but I'm here to learn more about shooting over 200 yards.I consider hitting what I aimed at a win.
One of the reasons I quit dialing anything, once I started using a tree ret. Now if a Mfg would only put the cross in the top 1/3 of viewing & run the numbers all the way down, I'd switch everything over. Even at my age now.Accuracy at the point of aim is a mechanical function and relies on your scope's ability to deliver precise movement of the point of impact to the point of aim. Seek precision.
Horus H-59 or Nightforce Mil-XT, both extend the tree beyond the limits of most people's vision as you zoom out. Not quite what you asked for but way more usable tree than anything else has.One of the reasons I quit dialing anything, once I started using a tree ret. Now if a Mfg would only put the cross in the top 1/3 of viewing & run the numbers all the way down, I'd switch everything over. Even at my age now.
Exactly and it’s surprising how many people do not know of this distinction.Precision is the wringing out of fundamentals, low standard deviation ammo and barrel harmonics. Seeking consistency in all aspects. Precision relies on consistency.
Accuracy at the point of aim is a mechanical function and relies on your scope's ability to deliver precise movement of the point of impact to the point of aim. Seek precision. Accuracy will follow.
Precision is your sub-MOA group. Accuracy is that group hitting sub-MOA steel.
Taylor
So true. when I have managed a good group, I also remember that I am seated at indoor and climated controlled range with a target caddy that brings it right back to me and a monitor camera near the 100 yard mark.As many said, it depends on the definition of "1 MOA shooter" you take...
Let's talk about bipod and bag, prone or at the bench, with quality factory ammo @100 meters (or yards, whatever you like most), to get the environment out of the equation, and leave only the shooter and his skill (even if calling the wind correctly is part of the skills).
I've seen many shooters call themselves "1 MOA shooter" because they could shoot within 1 MOA with their best groups in a good day.
I believe a 1 MOA shooter is somebody who, with his worst group, on a bad day, one of those when everything seems to turn out crap, well, he shoots 1 MOA.
And that in my very personal opinion, is one hell of a shooter.