This has got to be on purpose. I don’t think anyone could actually be this stupid. We’re obviously dealing with an angst filled teenager looking for attention.
What would be a slight step up from .
- Thread starter ohlongarm
- Start date
If anyone cared to do some research, Ilya actually owns all those scopes or has owned them.
Remember also he is offering options in a "similar" price and market point.
He has plenty of TT and ZCO and S&B scopes to look at and recommend, but again the Op was asking about something comparable and slightly better than the $700 scope he was looking at.
When Ilya gets done with his testing, if he things the Telson is a decent scope for the money, and is done with his, I'll probably try to buy it if he offers the used one up for sale since I'll know it's well inspected and tested.
I have plenty of high end scopes and plenty of Vortex scopes
But I also have Athlon and other brands as well depending on where I want them and their purpose and budget.
Dude this is not the hill to die on.
There are plenty of things I disagree with on (sorry brother your reticles suck) with Ilya and I think he misses the target sometimes but the dude is probably the most respected optical engineer and SME in the community. No one has the understanding he does while trying to translate that information in a digestible format for users.
I agree with you about the Chinese garbage and no name fly by night companies all buying shit from the same OEMs, but even when hes wrong he can still teach you a ton of knowledge along the way. If anything, you should just show the man some respect and if you disagree at least due it in a civil manner. He is not like the other mouth breathers around here.
There are plenty of things I disagree with on (sorry brother your reticles suck) with Ilya and I think he misses the target sometimes but the dude is probably the most respected optical engineer and SME in the community. No one has the understanding he does while trying to translate that information in a digestible format for users.
I agree with you about the Chinese garbage and no name fly by night companies all buying shit from the same OEMs, but even when hes wrong he can still teach you a ton of knowledge along the way. If anything, you should just show the man some respect and if you disagree at least due it in a civil manner. He is not like the other mouth breathers around here.
@Maurygold you are a fuckwit. Your ignorance of ILya's recommendations doesn't make you smarter and wiser. It just makes you ignorant and what's more you are unwilling to even learn because you know everything already. Even so, being an ignorant ass hardly ruffles my or anyone else's feathers. You could have disagreed without being such an insufferable ass.
It was that you called for banning a deeply respected expert on scopes, who has contributed to the site for more than 20 years, because you had a different opinion, which is ignorant, toxic, Millennial, cancel culture bullshit that we shouldn't have to sit through on just about the one free place on the internet.
Since you are an unrepentant asshole, way out of your depth, who keeps doubling down I see only one way to resolve this. You will fight to the death.
I invoke the right of trial by combat (to the ban). @koshkin vs @Maurygold in single combat.
God (@Lowlight) will decide the truth of it.
It was that you called for banning a deeply respected expert on scopes, who has contributed to the site for more than 20 years, because you had a different opinion, which is ignorant, toxic, Millennial, cancel culture bullshit that we shouldn't have to sit through on just about the one free place on the internet.
Since you are an unrepentant asshole, way out of your depth, who keeps doubling down I see only one way to resolve this. You will fight to the death.
I invoke the right of trial by combat (to the ban). @koshkin vs @Maurygold in single combat.
God (@Lowlight) will decide the truth of it.
Admittedly I have no idea who this guy is. You guys clearly speak highly of him so I take back my want to ban him (it was in jest).
That said - I still disagree with his recommendations by a mile. I think Chinese knock off companies hail in comparison to stable proven American companies even if the Japanese glass they all use is 5% better somehow and all assembled by the same place. having an American based qa and cs from a company that will for sure be around in 2-3 years is a huge value in the space.
I also don’t think a sample of 1 scope that was surely hand picked to go out for testing makes the opinion to go with a completely unknown company super reliable. Although based on you guys vetting - it seems his testing is reliable.
And I still find it interesting everyone up in arms about this doesn’t own either scope and isn’t buying one.
That said - I still disagree with his recommendations by a mile. I think Chinese knock off companies hail in comparison to stable proven American companies even if the Japanese glass they all use is 5% better somehow and all assembled by the same place. having an American based qa and cs from a company that will for sure be around in 2-3 years is a huge value in the space.
I also don’t think a sample of 1 scope that was surely hand picked to go out for testing makes the opinion to go with a completely unknown company super reliable. Although based on you guys vetting - it seems his testing is reliable.
And I still find it interesting everyone up in arms about this doesn’t own either scope and isn’t buying one.
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NOBODY CARES ABOUT THE CHEAP SCOPES!!!!
This is why drunks who run their mouths and pick fights with random people in bars aren't long for the world. At some point they're going to call out the wrong person. In this case you're telling the reigning MMA champ what a badass you are, and what a pussy he is. The guy could make you cry and choke you out without spilling his beer. Fortunately for you he is too mellow to engage the stupid drunk he can easily dispatch.
This is why drunks who run their mouths and pick fights with random people in bars aren't long for the world. At some point they're going to call out the wrong person. In this case you're telling the reigning MMA champ what a badass you are, and what a pussy he is. The guy could make you cry and choke you out without spilling his beer. Fortunately for you he is too mellow to engage the stupid drunk he can easily dispatch.
I acknowledge you guys respect his opinion - you’re welcome.
Don’t you have something undesirable to bump in the px for the 186th time?
Here this one has your name on it:
Optics - NIB Vortex Strike Eagle 5-25 EBR-7C MRAD
Vortex Strike Eagle 5-25x56 FFP EBR-7C MRAD (SKU SE-52504) - $600 shipped Scope is unused, new in the box. It comes with everything that comes in the box (sunshade, turret tool, throw lever, lens covers, etc.). EBR-7C MRAD reticle. Venmo or PayPal preferred.
www.snipershide.com
See now we’re back on track with you being the PX police.
Don’t you have some balls to wash
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I don't think that word means what you think it means.
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Isn't Teslong a borescope company? I mean, it is, and I own one. So did I prove someone wrong here?
It would be a boring world if everyone always agreed on anything.
The catch with new companies is that it is very hard to determine who is a "fly by night" company trying to make a quick buck off of cheap Chinese OEM'ed scope and who is trying to do the right thing and grow into a serious player.
The guys behind Telson bought a local Canadian brand called Scorpion Outdoors that already had some scopes and decided to take the optics a bit further upmarket, since they are shooters. That's how the Telson brand came about. They were dumping money and effort into it for a couple of years before the first Telson product hit the market. The riflescope line-up, for now, is four models, two are Japanese ($1500 to $2000) and two are Chinese ($900 to $1300). Nobody knows if the company is going to be around long term, but they seem pretty determined.
The interesting part is that the industry overall is in a bit of a slump right now. I suspect some brands will not make it out of it, but the ones who do will be be in very good shape as things pick up. Some growing companies are really well positioned to make it out of a slump and grow since they are well capitalized and have a maturing product line. Primary Arms is probably the best example of that, but there are others.
The first half of 2026 is likely to be a run on suppressors and I have a suspicion that the riflescope part of the market will really start picking up just after that.
ILya
The optics market is already saturated with cheap garbage. Unless you come along and bring something new or revolutionary while making it in a first world country.......its a waste of time and money to fuck with it.
There are already too many established companies making good product with a long track record that it makes it hard to choose from them.
Hopefully 2026 we will see unlocking of high FOV in more brands.
There are already too many established companies making good product with a long track record that it makes it hard to choose from them.
Hopefully 2026 we will see unlocking of high FOV in more brands.
So a decent affordable scope is a waste of time. I get it pimp, you don’t shoot anything that isn’t 4k or above on price point. You are a minority in the shooting world, the sooner you realize that, the better off this place will be. Not everyone has or wants to buy a 3500 plus dollar scope. Most DON’T need one anyway.
Either of the two companies mentioned and getting bashed are unknowns and might turn into a bargain deal for a lot of people. Only time will tell, not you or anyone else here that thinks they know what people need.
I think is more that another “label” is a waste of time. You have 1/2 a dozen labels buying scopes from the same OEM, and selling essentially the same product with minor changes. Adding a 7th label buying and selling the same product doesn’t really move the needle.
The simple truth is that 90% of people who argue about $4k scopes, buy $2k scopes. Those who foam at the mouth over comparative merits of $2k designs, usually end up buying a scope for $1k.
I spend a lot more time on high end scopes because I am an optics snob and I like them, not because that's where the real demand is.
As good as the high end options are, the most improvement with riflescopes happened in the ~$1k price range where high end Chinese-made scopes got surprisingly competent several years ago. That, arguably is what put pressure on Japanese and Phillipine manufacturers to press forward as well.
Now, I totally get when people do not want to buy a Chinese-made optic. However, they are still benefiting from their competitive pressure.
In other words, the $1k riflescope market segment is very important even if scopes in that price range are not your jam.
ILya
I spend a lot more time on high end scopes because I am an optics snob and I like them, not because that's where the real demand is.
As good as the high end options are, the most improvement with riflescopes happened in the ~$1k price range where high end Chinese-made scopes got surprisingly competent several years ago. That, arguably is what put pressure on Japanese and Phillipine manufacturers to press forward as well.
Now, I totally get when people do not want to buy a Chinese-made optic. However, they are still benefiting from their competitive pressure.
In other words, the $1k riflescope market segment is very important even if scopes in that price range are not your jam.
ILya
Arken and telson aren’t bringing down leupold and Nightforce prices. They arent even bringing down Burris and Athlon prices.
Vortex has been super competitive at 1k mark long before Chinese clones came and their pricing structure seems relatively untouched.
I will apologize for the ban remark but respectfully disagree with this completely. I think these knock offs just undercut the market by having lower qa and cs infrastructure and likely slightly lower quality mechanics. I’ll likely agree all the glass at price points is likely similar.
Well maybe I'm that 10% then. I have a few zcos sitting here and just ordered a $4400 march. Owned literally everything on the market from TT to Minox to Kahles to S&B down to Vortex and Leupold.
Glass is important but tracking and durability are way more important. Almost every one of those Chinese made scopes has significant issues when you run them. If all you do is look through the glass then fine. But when you are running them every week bouncing around in trucks and falling over racks and dropping off props you quickly figure out what holds up and what doesn't. Arken was the big push a few years ago and all the clowns were buying them. And they were all shitting the bed at matches. Or watching the instructor try to figure out why it wouldnt hold zero at a class. Seeing new shooters chase their tails is only funny for so long before it becomes a distraction to everyone else.
There are already PLENTY of decent options in the $1K market. Asian Burris, Quasi-Asian Leupolds, Japp OEM and whatever the hell steiner usa ultimately is. too numerous to name. All well established brands. I own a bunch of those "cheaper" optics on hunting guns, plinking shit, ARs ect. Not everything gets a $4-5K optic. Too many guns and not enough sugar momma. Why would I buy chinese or no name anything for $1K when there are alrerady a bunch of good options for pretty much every shooting niche out there?
It seems every month some new name is poping up trying to get a segment of the market. Its a saturated market and there must be a shit load of money in branding and reselling OEM shit becuase people keep doing.
Now I could go on a whole spiel how transfering knowledge and technolgy to advance chinese elcectro optical industry (which is what western companies do in almost every industry to get a foothold there) is tanamount to treason by helping to arm and advance our enemy but we can save that for another day. How industrial and technological espionage is the biggest threat to national security and takes up an astronomical part of our national intellegence budget. How so much of the price we all pay is baked in to combat these chicom cucksuckers and their fellow travelers. Any semi patriot American (and I get you were not born here) should stop and think about what the implications of their purchases are. Where their money is going and who is ultimatley benefiting.
Ignore all that and its still dumb to buy inferior chinese shit when you can buy american and semi american products for the same money that are much higher quality.
The internet seems to have created a lot of people stuck at that age, no matter how many rings on their trunk.
Is your implication here that I am not a patriotic American because I was not born here?
ILya
Perfect example of why the ignore button was invented. Now go to the basement and think about what an idiot you are. Or is it douche? I admit you’re a conundrum.
Weird way to ignore the post directly above yours. It wasn't meant as an insult but don't let facts get in the way of your fake outrage.
Well I just bought a Telson, a Target Master victory 5-32x56. I did use a cert that I picked up off a prize table, 60% off. I appreciate a company supporting the sport and giving those out. I realize they are doing that to gain traction in the marketplace, still I appreciate it. It makes it a little easier to take a chance on a company. Time will tell if they can make it and stick around, maybe I'm an idiot and I'll have scope I can't get fixed should it need it. I took a chance on vortex very early on. That worked out, we'll see about Telson.
That point, and the funny Telson/Teslong similarity, probably is a put-off for people who research a tiny bit but not a lot... or don't know the industry-wide POV that koshkin kindly shared above.
When any gear-driven activity/sport is in a mad rush phase, there are people who will throw money at quick-buck projects, no intent to be in things for long. Hell this even happens with insurance companies, where I ploughed fields. I worked on insolvencies too, saw the end results of quick-buck short termers.
It's smart to be wary of those short-termers, but if you can get POVs like koshkin's above, it helps understand which new companies might not be quick buck artists.
Also, this website shouldn't be underestimated IMO on optics. Before I started commenting, I watched Frank talking about the Zeiss LRP S3, and got one for myself. I'm not a 4k on optics guy, and I appreciated Frank recommending it. I have two Delta scopes that were highly considered by koshkin and both of them I like a lot. I'm no speed constant drag at PRS but the Delta Stryker 3.5-21x served me fine at a regional PRS.
No, I saw it. My statement stands regardless of your intent.
Between you and Maury, fuck this place is awful.
You could have easily bought a telson with all this time you’ve been complaining….. weird you haven’t.
