Rifle Competition Events What would you change or do differently with current competitions/organizations?

[lowlight]

Look at Archery Events and how many people are there, if you want to copy anything its archery.

Hunting is by far much bigger, we are just small segments dancing around it.

The big F Class matches are huge, 100s of competitors, those usually combine Palma, which is dwindling in participation, F Class is more popular, but on par to Benchrest as it's just Belly Benchrest. Their numbers are stronger too.

We are definitely in a minority, handgun sports, 3GN, etc, are all bigger by a wide margin

 

[b6graham]

when you require 1000y you'll always have a hard time compared to a sport that only need 10-50y

imagine the 3 gun/pistol range you could build from a 600y NRA range that's 15 spots wide

 

[lowlight]

Still, it's a sport and the organization does everything right,

USA Archery

USA Archery is the National Governing Body for the Olympic sport of archery, and is the organization recognized by the U.S. Olympic Committee for the purpose of selecting and training men’s and women’s teams to represent the U.S. in the Olympic, Paralympic, and Pan American Games.

www.usarchery.org

Everything from the site to virtual events to the real world, look at the focus on education, coaches, etc.

This is doing everything humanly possible to help you participate, to the point they have a countdown timer to the next event on the home page. It's well laid out, it's educational, it's inviting, this is how you run an organization.

Nobody is saying you need to be BIG, but how you operate says a lot about you. You can be small, but still operate successfully, vs this nonfunctioning BS we see with the minor participation we get. Consider how bad this is run with a small amount of participation it sees compared to other sports.

 

[mahlv]

In regards to the archery comparison... I shot a lot of 3d tournaments back when I was single, mainly within our state organization. We would squad with our buddies etc for the 1st day, then day 2 squads were split up by class for the top shooters from Saturday in a "top flight" arrangement. The top flight was usually the top 5 scores from Saturday grouped in a squad, it really cut down on the pencil whippers. If ya didn't want to shoot for awards and stay with the buds, no problem. These shoots were well supported by various vendors with a prize table, but the swag etc was raffled off. Imagine that, a whole other source of revenue without the whole crybaby shit from top shooters about how "48th place got an AI rifle and I deserve more" drama.

 

[TacticalDillhole]

Honest question here... How many people do you think compete in F-Class, NRA high power, 3-Gun, etc? All were very popular at one time. I could be completely wrong, but I feel like it's a fairly small number compared against the greater hunting and general shooting segments of the industry. Many of those disciplines or organizations/clubs grew quickly just like PRS/NRL, but died out almost just as quickly. I'm not sure there's anything, any changes that could be made to counteract the slow entropy and eventual downsizing of these events.

Sure, there will always be a dedicated group getting together to stroke each other's egos, but the vast majority of Sportsmen and women in the U.S. will choose to hunt, plink on grand-daddy's land, or hold outlaw events for smaller groups of friends.

I'm usually not a pessimist, but the level of drama and shenanigans in the precision rifle industry is pretty awful.
Brings me back to what I said initially, this sport has to be either a passion, or create an emotion, or be your job. Otherwise it's just going to be a thing that average people try out for a time, and then move on.

I’d prefer to keep it a passion. When it becomes a job, well it’s just a job.

 

[Joel Danielson]

Honest question here... How many people do you think compete in F-Class, NRA high power, 3-Gun, etc? All were very popular at one time. I could be completely wrong, but I feel like it's a fairly small number compared against the greater hunting and general shooting segments of the industry. Many of those disciplines or organizations/clubs grew quickly just like PRS/NRL, but died out almost just as quickly. I'm not sure there's anything, any changes that could be made to counteract the slow entropy and eventual downsizing of these events.

This has been an interesting read for me as an outsider to the PRS style matches. I come from the f-class and bench rest side of competitions. I have been the match director for many state and regional f-class championships, and believe me, it's growing. The club I used to belong to started a Monday league for f-class that had maybe 15-20 when I started, to having 65-80 people there regularly the last 4 years. Sling shooting is dying, but we have figured out a way to keep some of the old guys going by putting scopes on their rifles.
It will only get better with the new sub-category for gas guns.

 

[z7.jled]

I really like the conversation of growing the shooter base. I have dabbled in local matches (PRS and outlaw) and even took 2nd place out of 50ish shooters at one outlaw match, but I’m usually a upper 1/3rd shooter - I have really enjoyed it and learned a great deal about shooting but I am not anywhere close to being a serious competitor because I don’t dedicate the time to practice and compete - I want to take my kids fishing and shi

the one thing that prevents me from doing more matches is availability and predictable schedule. You need an option for someone to “show up” to a match - I like the shadow competitor idea so that I can just roll up to core and shoot a 2 day match if my schedule allows. Having to sign up and register/pay for a match 6 months out, and the day it’s available for registration is pretty discouraging, and a new shooter is not going to drop $1000 on a two day event plus a long road trip to “try something out”

this is why the local club matches are the ticket.
The club match format can be tweaked by those who know better, but I have an idea to bring new people In

have a “short course” where any gear is allowed, and the targets are bigger, say 500 and in with a full ipsc at 500, the rest are 3moa, or “deer vitals” size, “fees” for the
short course are $25 or so, no prizes

shooting should be field shooting positions, no weird contrived stages like “shoot from a swingset”. A round count around 40 required shots but the shooter can shoot a few more, dope and wind calls can be provided with a spotter

another tweak needs to be a weight limit or just force people to shoot off handed. It was frustrating me when I was winning the local tactical division until another guy built a 30lb .308 with all the bells and whistles and was free recoiling every shot and started winning.

I want more movement, but that is really tough for some locations

The production class is kinda silly but it made the industry flex and produce some great rifles at a great price point, so thought should be applied before throwing out that class

bring in gass gunners, lots of guys have 3 gun rifles, the short course could easily accommodate them while pushing them to be better shooters

finally, figure out a way to bring kids into the fold, and to do that we need rifles that fit kids that are semi affordable the best thing I can come up with is an AR 15, but the grip is still troublesome. I am struggling greatly to figure out how to build a bolt gun a kid can shoot comfortably that fits well, (im sure I could call any number of the reputable smiths on the hide and they can come up with a solution for the right price)

a prize table option to reduce heart ache - make it known that some of the prizes are going to a shooter “in need” and MD identify that new shooter who is safe and has a good attitude but is attempting to use a Ruger American rifle and $300 scope, and give that guy the new bolt gun or that certificate for a new rifle, find the young shooter with a budget scope to give the NF, but make it known that some of those prizes are not “won” they are earned,

 

[TacticalDillhole]

I really like the conversation of growing the shooter base. I have dabbled in local matches (PRS and outlaw) and even took 2nd place out of 50ish shooters at one outlaw match, but I’m usually a upper 1/3rd shooter - I have really enjoyed it and learned a great deal about shooting but I am not anywhere close to being a serious competitor because I don’t dedicate the time to practice and compete - I want to take my kids fishing and shi

the one thing that prevents me from doing more matches is availability and predictable schedule. You need an option for someone to “show up” to a match - I like the shadow competitor idea so that I can just roll up to core and shoot a 2 day match if my schedule allows. Having to sign up and register/pay for a match 6 months out, and the day it’s available for registration is pretty discouraging, and a new shooter is not going to drop $1000 on a two day event plus a long road trip to “try something out”

this is why the local club matches are the ticket.
The club match format can be tweaked by those who know better, but I have an idea to bring new people In

have a “short course” where any gear is allowed, and the targets are bigger, say 500 and in with a full ipsc at 500, the rest are 3moa, or “deer vitals” size, “fees” for the
short course are $25 or so, no prizes

shooting should be field shooting positions, no weird contrived stages like “shoot from a swingset”. A round count around 40 required shots but the shooter can shoot a few more, dope and wind calls can be provided with a spotter

another tweak needs to be a weight limit or just force people to shoot off handed. It was frustrating me when I was winning the local tactical division until another guy built a 30lb .308 with all the bells and whistles and was free recoiling every shot and started winning.

I want more movement, but that is really tough for some locations

The production class is kinda silly but it made the industry flex and produce some great rifles at a great price point, so thought should be applied before throwing out that class

bring in gass gunners, lots of guys have 3 gun rifles, the short course could easily accommodate them while pushing them to be better shooters

finally, figure out a way to bring kids into the fold, and to do that we need rifles that fit kids that are semi affordable the best thing I can come up with is an AR 15, but the grip is still troublesome. I am struggling greatly to figure out how to build a bolt gun a kid can shoot comfortably that fits well, (im sure I could call any number of the reputable smiths on the hide and they can come up with a solution for the right price)

a prize table option to reduce heart ache - make it known that some of the prizes are going to a shooter “in need” and MD identify that new shooter who is safe and has a good attitude but is attempting to use a Ruger American rifle and $300 scope, and give that guy the new bolt gun or that certificate for a new rifle, find the young shooter with a budget scope to give the NF, but make it known that some of those prizes are not “won” they are earned,

For kids the 22’s r awesome. Also, the A-10 stock is good as well.

Tactical Stocks | ADJ A-10 Tactical Stock

mcmillanusa.com

sorry to derail thread, back to the regular programming.

 

[JustSendit]

I don’t love the PRS, I really hate the flow more than anything. If matches are smaller squads and less people, I am all for it. That’s amongst a few of my complaints. But if anyone is starting a new series a new MD trying to attract shooters - avoid being money hungry and the competitors will thank you.

Every match i shot in NC an all day affair, 2 hours driving each way many hours shooting (aka waiting) then home late. I got it, I like the MDs and I get they need to earn a buck. It’s why we have 90sec stages, more people can be in a squad, more money.

I think just less people or do par times and step off rotating, there’s a few answers to the question in my opinion.

Time plus penalties and gas gun...the PRS just cancelled pro series gas gun... I want tons of targets, time plus, pistols, basically let the 3-gun dudes slap a 25x on their AR and they’re in. 3-gun Nation did that and it was pretty sweet.

 

[DFOOSKING]

I was spitballing ideas to get new shooters to our local NRL22 matches. As it seemed like it was same faces every week. And the average age was well in the 30's. It's like......do none of you have kids/wives? And why are they not shooting too?

So anyway, our local clubs (we have 4 close by) do cash payouts based on attendance for placing. And the MD made some calls and got a few local shops to donate supplies, ammo, targets....little easy stuff...to give to the kids. They also do a small 1ST Place Division trophy usually. After the awards/cash are handed out they do random draws for prizes. And there is also a season end drawing for 1 kid to win a rifle and 1 adult to win a suppressor. Both random drawn...a shooter gets a chance for a spot at the end of the season. So more matches you attend....more opportunity to win the gun/suppressor.



I thought why not make a list of people who bring a new shooter every month. You bring in a new shooter your name is in the hat for a cool prize at the end of the season. There's no requirement the new shooter has to return and no other competitor may get credit for bringing in a prior "new" shooter. You bring in multiple new shooters....you get multiple tickets. But again, they cant be brought back again for the drawing.

Make the prize good. Really make competitors WANT to put in the footwork. Cuz it is one thing to say your for growth of the sport....its a whole other thing to do it in most cases.

 

[z7.jled]

Kids should shoot for free anywhere anytime

 

[357Max]

As a new/average shooter. I'm looking to shoot some matches this year.

Below is an excerpt from the match breakdown of a PRS event not far from me.

"_ _ _ Rifles welcomes all shooters, especially newcomers to the sport. However, in the past, _ _ _ Rifles matches have been proved to be one of the most challenging matches in the PRS."

Notice the newcomers welcome, however??? It's discouraging. Why would I want to set myself up for failure. I'll be passing on that one.

Contrast that to a local series, pretty sure it's a renegade PRS? This is where I'll pop my precision bolt gun comp cherry!

The first match is a beginner's, 1 day matches, $50 bucks, & 100 rounds.

Welcome to the 2020 Mason Dixon Precision Rifle Series (MDPRS)
Qualifying matches will be open to 40-50 competitors with a match fee of $50 per match.

Recommended equipment:
Rifle capable of 1 MOA or better, with a repeatable zero
Scope that you can easily dial or hold for elevation
100 rounds of quality ammo, 308 or under with a max velocity of 3150 fps
Confirmed dope at longer ranges (preferably up to 700 yards)
Bipod, tripod, shooting bags, back pack, sling, food/snacks, water …. Bring what you have
Go to YouTube and search for Precision Rifle Series (PRS) to see what to expect for the stages

 

[ceekay1]

If matches only required just a rifle it still would be hard to get new people into it... but this shit with needing a wheelbarrow full of different bags, plus a tripod and bunch of ARCA stuff in order to be on level footing with other shooters is a recipe for failure IMHO.

As someone who is relatively new to precision rifles and long-range shooting as compared to a lot of guys on here, AND as someone who's been shooting pistols in both IDPA and USPSA for about 15 years (as well as a ton of 3-gun and outlaw/steel matches thrown in), my take on the PRS/NRL kind of shooting is this: there's too much extra shit needed to shoot a damn match!

The only things needed to compete should be a shooter and a gun like IDPA/USPSA or as close to that as possible. 1 rifle with a bipod and 1 bag should be enough.

 

[RoterJager]

If matches only required just a rifle it still would be hard to get new people into it... but this shit with needing a wheelbarrow full of different bags, plus a tripod and bunch of ARCA stuff in order to be on level footing with other shooters is a recipe for failure IMHO.

As someone who is relatively new to precision rifles and long-range shooting as compared to a lot of guys on here, AND as someone who's been shooting pistols in both IDPA and USPSA for about 15 years (as well as a ton of 3-gun and outlaw/steel matches thrown in), my take on the PRS/NRL kind of shooting is this: there's too much extra shit needed to shoot a damn match!

The only things needed to compete should be a shooter and a gun like IDPA/USPSA or as close to that as possible. 1 rifle with a bipod and 1 bag should be enough.

You don't really need much to be competitive. A rifle, good ammo, a kestrel and good practice will get you a long way.

I shot all of a last year with one Schmedium bag and a plate. The plate was used less and less as the year went on. I stopped using my binos about half way through the season because everyone and their brother has them and it takes up too much room behind the line. Used a tripod on one stage last year. My rifle is a little heavy at 20lbs loaded with a bipod. No weight kits. I ran my trigger at just over 1lb all year.

There are things that need to change and I've outline that in a previous post. But the perception of needing certain gear to be competitive is just that, perception, driven by marketing departments. The new MPA weight kit and sides are a perfect example of that.

 

[ma smith]

You don't really need much to be competitive.

A rifle, good ammo, a kestrel ...

My rifle is a little heavy at 20lbs

But the perception of needing certain gear to be competitive is just that, perception, driven by marketing departments.

 

[lts1ow]

As a new/average shooter. I'm looking to shoot some matches this year.

Below is an excerpt from the match breakdown of a PRS event not far from me.

"_ _ _ Rifles welcomes all shooters, especially newcomers to the sport. However, in the past, _ _ _ Rifles matches have been proved to be one of the most challenging matches in the PRS."

Notice the newcomers welcome, however??? It's discouraging. Why would I want to set myself up for failure. I'll be passing on that one.

Contrast that to a local series, pretty sure it's a renegade PRS? This is where I'll pop my precision bolt gun comp cherry!

The first match is a beginner's, 1 day matches, $50 bucks, & 100 rounds.

Welcome to the 2020 Mason Dixon Precision Rifle Series (MDPRS)
Qualifying matches will be open to 40-50 competitors with a match fee of $50 per match.

Recommended equipment:
Rifle capable of 1 MOA or better, with a repeatable zero
Scope that you can easily dial or hold for elevation
100 rounds of quality ammo, 308 or under with a max velocity of 3150 fps
Confirmed dope at longer ranges (preferably up to 700 yards)
Bipod, tripod, shooting bags, back pack, sling, food/snacks, water …. Bring what you have
Go to YouTube and search for Precision Rifle Series (PRS) to see what to expect for the stages

MDPRS is a great club, you will enjoy the matches.